(Topic ID: 94984)

Why do people hate WoZ


By zr11990

5 years ago



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There are 1002 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 21.
-1
#151 5 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

To the OP:
-theme kills it for me. I think Hobbit will be the success JJP is hoping for (needs). A more appealing theme on a great pinball platform.
they can argue that the WOZ theme transcends beyond the normal pinhead market, but we're not seeing the sales to back that up (like Mustang appearing in Ford dealerships which are new market sales).

The WOZ theme is timeless and can be enjoyed by anyone at any age. It's been very popular with operators and home owners. Earnings of the game have been very good for operators from what I've read and been told and continues to out earn any other pin. While Mustang may be appearing in some Ford dealers it doesn't seem very popular with home owners and operators. The Mustang theme is awesome but Stern made a mistake by not including one interactive toy in it and offering other features to justify its price in my opinion.

#152 5 years ago

Hate is a strong word. I've played it on location about 10 times and for me it's more of a 'meh' feeling. The game is beautiful, but it just feels too cramped and doesn't have the long shots I like on a game. It's a game I would never even consider buying new for the $7000 or $8000 they go for.

11
#153 5 years ago

I've made in depth comments on this subject before, but for now...

Two main reasons that people don't like WOZ:

1) No left ramp

2) They don't like Jack, or something he said, or his methods, his speeches, his bravado, his factory, etc.

I find it hilarious that these WOZ opinion threads are always dominated by those who don't own a WOZ. Always.

I don't know if any recent pinball title which has garnered as much consistent groupie-like negative attention from those who don't own the game and have declared that they don't wish to own it. I already knew the posters who I'd find in this thread before I clicked on it, and I already knew their opinions from the 500 other WOZ opinion threads they've voiced their displeasure for Jack and WOZ in.

Next time, someone cut this off on Page 1 by linking the last thread all this happened in, where the same individuals posted the exact same opinions (again).

#154 5 years ago
Quoted from mechslave:

I find it hilarious that these WOZ opinion threads are always dominated by those who don't own a WOZ. Always.

Op asked a general question for all of pin side. Only ~416~ pinsiders have one and are in a very small minority here.

#155 5 years ago
Quoted from centerflank:

Op asked a general question for all of pin side. Only ~416~ pinsiders have one and are in a very small minority here.

And yet, the real minority is the dozen or so groupies that follow WOZ threads around like a TMZ camera follows Charlie Sheen.

I find it predictably funny, and yet to those who haven't read the WOZ opinion threads over the past two years, it may not be as easy to decipher.

#156 5 years ago

I am not a WOZ hater. I'm more indifferent to it. I like the theme, concept, look, tech-- just about everything about it except the most important part-- how it plays. The reason why a lot of people dislike WOZ is simply because.... a lot of people dislike WOZ. What's wrong with that? Is that somehow less a legitimate reaction to a game than slurping all over it? If you are one who dislikes the theme, dislikes the look, and dislikes the play, I would say that saying anything other than the fact that you dislike (or in an extreme case- HATE) the game would be disingenuous.

10
#157 5 years ago
Quoted from Mato:

I love it and my wife and kids love it......... in the end its all that matters, someone close this thread down.

I am glad you are enjoying the game. I like WOZ too (I've even gotten past the theme and I think it is cool game), but its price point is too high for me to add to the collection and I don't like what I've heard about its reliability from some of my buddies who do own it.

No rules have been broken in this thread that i can tell; we do have a thread (the WOZ Club Thread) where we do not allow negativity because so many WOZ threads have negativity . . . but that thread is not this one. Carry on folks.

#158 5 years ago
Quoted from mechslave:

I've made in depth comments on this subject before, but for now...
Two main reasons that people don't like WOZ:
1) No left ramp
2) They don't like Jack, or something he said, or his methods, his speeches, his bravado, his factory, etc.
I find it hilarious that these WOZ opinion threads are always dominated by those who don't own a WOZ. Always.
I don't know if any recent pinball title which has garnered as much consistent groupie-like negative attention from those who don't own the game and have declared that they don't wish to own it. I already knew the posters who I'd find in this thread before I clicked on it, and I already knew their opinions from the 500 other WOZ opinion threads they've voiced their displeasure for Jack and WOZ in.
Next time, someone cut this off on Page 1 by linking the last thread all this happened in, where the same individuals posted the exact same opinions (again).

Another good concise summary!

#2 far outweighs #1, left orbit shot is a fun and more challenging shot than the standard left ramp right ramp layout.

The opinions of people that "I played one ball and then walked away" or "i put 10 games on it and its just not for me" is worth about the little amount of time that they have on it.

Until you understand how the rules integrate with a pin, its really hard to judge. I've walked up to so many pins at Pinballz in Austin, put a few plays on them and walked away thinking what's the big deal? AFM, MM, MB and Tron to name a few. The more I understand them, the more I like them!

I hated my Lotr Le at first, now I understand why its a masterpiece. WPT and RS two more I bought after playing them enough to see what was there.

#3 would be that the "theme sucks", that I get for some people as a huge reason not to buy

Btw, I like the discussion, good and bad, like Tiger says, there is a Woz only owners thread for just the good stuff

#159 5 years ago

All that counts for the people that own WOZ is there own opinion! Keep enjoying your machines!

#160 5 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

The WOZ theme is timeless and can be enjoyed by anyone at any age.

I stay out of the "how is the WOZ pinball" discussions mostly, but since you made a statement regarding the WOZ theme and not the pinball...

100% disagree. There is nothing about the WOZ theme that I find appealing. It's a huge turn away for me. Sure, I never made any connections to the characters or the film in my youth, perhaps others did. I'm personally surprised any man 45 and under would have any interest in the WOZ theme. But I certainly have been proven wrong! Too each their own, as it should be.

Updated: Please see my post below before down voting and, perhaps, making a connection that wasn't intended. I've not modified the text above.

#161 5 years ago

Of what? Most of us that dont like the game for several reasons can buy one so its not that. Worse I can buy one and have it in my home next week without a wait ; )

As I said above its subjective as far as theme, game play and the way I feel about widebodies in general. But to be fair thats subjective and applies to a few other games.

Now my dislike of the company and how its being run is very factual.

But I get why folks love WOZ. Most of my friends that do love TZ as well. Another game I dont like. I am not jealous of them or them of me. We just have very different taste. Again it kills me though that my friend with different taste is still on limbo for LE though.

#162 5 years ago

Don't you guys have anything better to do? Go mow the lawn or something...lol

#163 5 years ago
Quoted from dannunz:

Don't you guys have anything better to do? Go mow the lawn or something...lol

Stuck at work.

#164 5 years ago

It's deffinatly a shooters game. If you want to mindlessly shoot ramps and orbits than this game is not for you, you can do that on this game, it just won't get you anywhere. Holy crap is the game deep, I think this is a main reason why people don't like it. You can't just bang bang bang and knock out a good game, it takes some skill and a lot of thought which most people dont want to have to think. Some of the shots are really hard also, a lot of people here seem to like spoon fed shots (ie. "satisfying shots"). It's deffinatly not a game for everyone.

As for the theme, I think it's awesome. Freakn timeless...

#165 5 years ago

I think people get way too worked up over others opinions here. Seems like a waste, although very entertaining to sit back and watch!

I prefer to acknowledge only the opinions of my wife and kids when it comes to my purchase decisions. I really could give two runny shits what other people think when it comes to my games or preferred ways to purchase them. I do what works for us, which might even include prepaying. Sorry if that bothers some people! I do however respect the opinions of others and try to keep an open mind whenever possible.

To the OP, It seems a lot like the Ford vs Chevy debates we have here. Some will probably always hate Stern or JJP now unfortunately. I don't see how anyone can hate having more games and manufacturers though? The more options the better imo!

Keep them coming!!

18
#166 5 years ago
Quoted from altan:

I'm personally surprised any man 45 and under would have any interest in the WOZ theme.

ESSAY INCOMING.

I'm 36, and I grew up reading the original L Frank Baum OZ books (now my 10 year old daughter is reading them herself). Nothing wrong with Oz. I suspect most people my age watched the movie as a kid, I know my middle school put it on as a play (I was the Munchkin coroner). I remember watching Return to Oz in the theater, I was maybe 10 or so, I'd have to look up the year to check. We took our girls to the new Disney Oz movie too.

There's simply nothing about the theme that's obscure or weird. Collecting the characters, battling the Wicked Witch, the house and the castle, it all makes sense as a pinball theme. Some insecure people seem to think it threatens their manhood somehow, which I don't get, and there are always a couple clueless homophobes who try and play some ridiculous "gay" card. They're easy to just thumbs down and ignore though.

All that said, the particular way the theme was done isn't really my cup of tea. It's mostly the music and sound effects. I find them somewhat grating. And that's a huge part of pinball for me. When I play Tron where I can't hear the music and sounds I don't enjoy it as much, I really love the whole experience.

I don't really care for widebodies, from any era by any manufacturer. The "more room to cram toys!" thing is basically a non starter, I don't care. They just feel different, a little slower and laggy and clunkier. Again, not about WOZ itself, it's just how wide games feel to me. Same opinion about TZ or Judge Dredd.

I think the LCD is clever and interesting. It's probably the future, and I'm okay with that. It's just a score display, like reels or segmented LEDs or plasma DMDs or ColorDMD LCDs. It does concern me though, because it takes so much time and effort to do the graphics, and your expectations can't help but rise with HD. I find the weird jittery witch animations really distracting for example, where she kind of "jumps" between different poses. It's just odd, it looks broken to me.

All that said, I think it's a fun and interesting game, I've really enjoyed playing it. But it's one of those "glad my friend has it" deals, where I'm happy to play his (thanks nimblepin!) but don't want it in my own collection.

What would have been 500% more interesting to me would have been doing WOZ as a non-licensed game. The stories are public domain, it's only the MGM specific version that requires licensing. Skip the more candy coated musical, drop the use of movie clips, and do it your own way. You'd still have name recognition without all the baggage and handcuffs. See current discussion over disappointing Hobbit art, and how most of what we don't care for is dictated by the movie studio.

It would have been more work. But it would have been a way bolder step, establishing a company where they do their own thing, and not just about being a "let's license a movie" pinball maker.

Also, on a final note, just because you can't entirely separate the man from the game, Jack can take his attitude where he walks around talking shit about Pinside and shove it up his ass. We're all your potential customers you big clown, be a man and accept that criticism is part of the startup growing pains and just do something about the issues instead of talking smack. I take it personally. Insulting your customer base strikes me as moronic.

12
#167 5 years ago

One thing that is arguably true is that this game is the most dissected and beaten down topic on Pinside. Personally I think the game is a masterpiece. The more you understand it the better it gets.

#168 5 years ago

I think people dislike it because the witch and flying monkeys still gives them nightmares and they just don't want to admit it...

13
#169 5 years ago

I'm just glad to be a man whose masculinity is not threatened by a little whimsy.

The game is nothing short of astonishing for a first effort.

#170 5 years ago

I first played a prototype on location, there were 2 issues with that one: weak flippers and light boards going out (which, obviously ended up being not just a prototype issue). Then when the prototype was replaced with a real one... still had weird crap happening like a ball getting stuck bouncing between two slingshots up near the rollover lanes. I think this has been fixed in code now. But, you know what? first impressions are hard to overcome.. I won't seek the machine out again. If it happens to be at place I am at, I will give it another chance but will admit i will have a short amount of patience with anything broken with it. Just human nature really. Hate is a strong word though but all the glitz and glamour the game isn't a substitute for it functioning properly.

#171 5 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Some insecure people seem to think it threatens their manhood somehow, which I don't get, and there are always a couple clueless homophobes who try and play some ridiculous "gay" card.

It's not that the game itself is "gay" (I'm not even sure it has a preference), it's just that the Wizard of Oz movie has a strange aura of male gay culture that surrounds it.

Like when you go on a cruse ship and see "Friends of Dorthy" on the activities page. It sounds like a memorial of some kind, but it is actually the Gay Meetup for the day.

Or you find the only bar in Ann Arbor that is not a sport bar and some young guy steps up and asks "Excuse me, are you a friend of Dorthy?". You have set off his gaydar, and he is asking you for a shag, without tipping his cards to you if you are not gay.

Rainbows are constantly associated with the LGBT movement, with rainbow flags and rainbow parades.

The Lion introduces himself "I'm afraid there's no denyin' I'm just a dandy lion...". Dandy has been code for a gay man since the 1890s.

Judy Garland is of course "the" gay icon. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judy_Garland_as_gay_icon

Like it or not, The Wizard of Oz movie is totally ingrained in modern gay culture.

#172 5 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

I am glad you are enjoying the game. I like WOZ too (I've even gotten past the theme and I think it is cool game), but its price point is too high for me to add to the collection and I don't like what I've heard about its reliability from some of my buddies who do own it.
No rules have been broken in this thread that i can tell; we do have a thread (the WOZ Club Thread) where we do not allow negativity because so many WOZ threads have negativity . . . but that thread is not this one. Carry on folks.

Agreed....not seeing much "hate" on this thread ( I'm sure I haven't read every post) and actually enjoy reading posts on most machines ( positive or negative) until personal stuff is brought in......people on this site have been in the Hobby years longer than I ( don't mind newbs either)....find a lot of interesting banter....

I really think WOZ can stand on its own and doesn't need defending.....if you like the game or not....well, your choice...hence the discussion......mark

#173 5 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

ESSAY INCOMING. ...

Aurich, nice post with good points. I do want to comment on one section, the one regarding your portrayal of some men that dislike the game.

I identified men under 45 as a general way to describe a group that had similar experiences in the 80s. Maybe I got it right, maybe I got it wrong. I was introduced to WOZ in the 80s along the same time as I was introduced to Terminator 2, Alien, Indiana Jones, Aliens, 2010, E.T., Empire Strikes Back, and so forth. From an 80s kid perspective, WOZ cannot compete and pales in comparison. It's ancient (1939), partially black and white, goofy effects, etc. As an adult, I know there is more there ("it's B&W for artistic value!", etc.), but I'll forever judge the movie based on the timeframe I viewed it.

I also realize WOZ is literature. However, the WOZ pinball has embraced the movie. I entirely associate the pin with the movie, not the literature. From what I know, the pin has also chosen to embrace the movie also (and not the literature), so I think it's fair that my 80s kid view of the movie drive my perception of the game's theme.

#174 5 years ago

For me, the best thing about JJP and WOZ is that they've made Stern up their game.

#175 5 years ago

It is funny how many people are complaining about "another WOZ hate" thread.
Then they write a paragraph about their thoughts on WOZ.
So I guess I am complaining about the people that bitch about the people who complain about WOZ threads.

#176 5 years ago

Let's not forget the surfboards Stern was producing before JJP became a competitor. Their creativity had completely disappeared and their games for the most part sucked. Like WOZ or not Jack revived pinball and woke Gary stern up. Now both companies have to produce a great game or people won't buy it. Without JJP we would being playing rethemed Avatars, Rolling Stones and Indy jones style pinz until Stern went under. I don't agree or disagree 100% of the time with either company but I am very glad they both build great games now. Think back to the Stern days when Pat Lawlor, Steve Ritchie designed games at Stern... games were better, not great but better. Now look at what these two are doing. Think back to the days when you could call Joe Blackwell up at Stern and get fast expert advise on tech issues. How about LOTR.... Stern did that with KJ doing the programming. I remember they fired a whole bunch of high powered people at that same time (was KJ amount them?) their games started sucking pretty bad at the same time, seems like when Rolling Stones was being designed (IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY).

Pinball is WAYYYYYYYY better off today with JJP, Plantary, and Stern are building games. When Stern was the only game in town there was no choice and no reason for them to spend money on innovation. Today Stern is building better games than before JJP and JJP will build better games than WOZ as time goes on. Jack has said it many times that WOZ will be their worst game..... Now that is setting the bar pretty high in my opinion!

Chris Kruger

#177 5 years ago

I've only played it twice. Once was ok, waited in a long line at a show to get to it. The second time was at the PHOF. The lower half of the lighting was out. It was really disappointing to play with my non pinhead friend...and to try to explain it's really not that bad a game.

#178 5 years ago

The title of this thread is wrong.
It should be:
"Why do all the people that played my WoZ love it?"

I don't like the theme!!!! The plan was to buy this game, see what the new technology can do and sell it again after a few month.But it's like so many things in my life, when I make a plan it goes often wrong in a good way. I still have it here at home in my living room. After some ajustments and the last software update, this game is awesome. It's has beautiful artwork, the LCD is spectacular and if you have a clue what to shoot for, the rules are the best I have played so far in a pinball game.
Everybody that played it understanding the rules was hooked so far. I had enough chances to sell it again. I still have fun with this game and so I can't sell it. So this game stays here until we see more of JJPs third game, perhaps I will keep it for ever.

There are so many people that hate the theme or JJP, but please give this game a fair chance, you may be suprised like I am. And thank you JJP team for all the heart and work you have put in this game. Can't wait to get my Hobbit.^^

#179 5 years ago

Well, the arguments are migrating FROM whether people will get their WOZzes at all, TO whether people actually enjoy their WOZzes.

So I GUESS that's progress.

#180 5 years ago
Quoted from mechslave:

I don't know if any recent pinball title which has garnered as much consistent groupie-like negative attention from those who don't own the game and have declared that they don't wish to own it.

Groupie like negative attention? I find it the opposite. It's a select few that keep on complaining about something that isn't there. Nobody hates WOZ but you would think this was the case by all the "oh here we go again" people.

#181 5 years ago

The WOZ theme really is love it or hate it, and I love it. Having the theme of one of the best classic Hollywood movies is just a win for me and the story really is a dark fantasy. Just a PG version of it able to attract the family crowd.

The biggest problem with me honestly with the game is just the overall sound package. It's just annoying to hear that witch all the time and the music just seems off. The game is a visual splendor, but just grating on the ears. God damn it! The audio is so annoying!

The gameplay isn't the best, but its decent, far better than most. The slack of the gameplay could have been made up for if audio and visually the game fully delivered... and sadly it just doesn't. Right now this game is a great novelty of a pinball experience because of all the bells and whistles. Long term this game is far from a classic though.

#182 5 years ago
Quoted from mechslave:

I don't know if any recent pinball title which has garnered as much consistent groupie-like negative attention from those who don't own the game and have declared that they don't wish to own it.

No? I'd say Mustang, AV, and XM have received as much "hate" as WOZ. But everybody's able to move on to either loving or hating the next Stern pin. With WOZ the conversation is stuck until Hobbit comes out.

I don't think WOZ has any more "haters" or "fanboys" than any other pin. It just feels like it because we've been having the same back and forth for 3 years. And neither side is willing to back down. The fans are tired of the haters. The haters are tired of the fans. And some of us are tired of all you all.

#183 5 years ago

slippers for flippers! lol

#184 5 years ago

WOZ will go down as a classic pin using a timeless theme, having one of the deepest rulesets in pinball, and offering more toys and features than other pin at the time. Best pinball machine ever made in my opinion. Thank you JJP

11
#185 5 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

WOZ will go down as a classic pin using a timeless theme, having one of the deepest rulesets in pinball, and offering more toys...

#186 5 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

offering more toys and features than other pin

first time i heard of these toys...sound exciting

-3
#187 5 years ago

Woz will go down alright. When full throttle or Hobbit is released no one will care that much about WOZ.

#188 5 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

WOZ will go down as a classic pin using a timeless theme, having one of the deepest rulesets in pinball, and offering more toys and features than other pin at the time. Best pinball machine ever made in my opinion. Thank you JJP

You can say that again!

#189 5 years ago
Quoted from DanQverymuch:

I'm just glad to be a man whose masculinity is not threatened by a little whimsy.
The game is nothing short of astonishing for a first effort.

Disliking this game/theme has nothing to do with being homophobic (queue Seinfeld voice), "NOT that there's anything wrong with it..."

I also happen to dislike Stern's Mustang (and I've driven/owned 'Stang's for the last 7 years!).

Some themes just dont work for the everyone. Hey, "Little Red Riding Hood" is a "timeless classic" as well, but that doesnt mean I want to see it re-imagined on a pinball machine....hmmm... though the Amanda Seyfried translite might be a keeper....

#190 5 years ago
Quoted from pinstyle:

It's defiantly a shooters game. If you want to mindlessly shoot ramps and orbits than this game is not for you, you can do that on this game, it just won't get you anywhere. Holy crap is the game deep, I think this is a main reason why people don't like it. You can't just bang bang bang and knock out a good game, it takes some skill and a lot of thought which most people dont want to have to think. Some of the shots are really hard also, a lot of people here seem to like spoon fed shots (ie. "satisfying shots"). It's deffinatly not a game for everyone.
As for the theme, I think it's awesome. Freakn timeless...

I think you nailed it. This is a thinking, shooters game. To score well in WOZ you have to have a plan (or just get really lucky). This isn't a ramp-ramp-left-right-type game. It does not reward repetitive shots like many other machines.

In fact, WOZ is a game that often penalizes you for bad shots. Things need to be done in a certain order to really kick the game into overdrive. I don't know of a game where hitting the wrong thing at the wrong time can set you back as much as in WOZ. HOADC requires such precise shooting it's arguable if you can intentionally control the results. ECMB requires precision and alternating targets. To set up rescue MB you have to follow a sequence of specific shots, where if you capture dorothy and you try to spell rescue and instead shoot the wrong shot, you'll have to beat down 3 more winky targets to get another chance. Stack the wrong mode with Crystal Ball and you lose your playfield lighting and can't figure out what to shoot for.. lol.. the game can be extremely challenging.

I think this thread has been productive. I think there are plenty of legitimate reasons why people might not like WOZ but I think many of those that don't might change their mind if they got more play time. But I also recognize not everybody likes that type of game.

#191 5 years ago
Quoted from PinballHelp:

I think you nailed it. This is a thinking, shooters game. To score well in WOZ you have to have a plan (or just get really lucky). This isn't a ramp-ramp-left-right-type game. It does not reward repetitive shots like many other machines.

+1

A "thinking, shooters game" best describes it. I like exploring the many different ways to play it. A Keith trademark.

#192 5 years ago
Quoted from krupa:

No? I'd say Mustang, AV, and XM have received as much "hate" as WOZ. But everybody's able to move on to either loving or hating the next Stern pin. With WOZ the conversation is stuck until Hobbit comes out.
I don't think WOZ has any more "haters" or "fanboys" than any other pin. It just feels like it because we've been having the same back and forth for 3 years. And neither side is willing to back down. The fans are tired of the haters. The haters are tired of the fans. And some of us are tired of all you all.

Some great points you made. Stern has put out like 6 games since Woz was supposed to come out. Each one has been greeted by both hate and love. A few months later we move on and hate and love the next game. WoZ has been a single roller coaster ride for well over three years. Imagine if Stern was still producing XMen and people who paid years ago hadn't gotten their machines yet? Without those other 5 games to talk about, of course the XMen talk would be out of control.

For those who did not buy WoZ, these threads are like a sore tooth. For some reason just as the pain is subsiding, your tongue moves over and pokes it just to make sure it's still there. Seriously though, with all the deception and production problems and rumors about financial backers, JJP (not WoZ) has become a rubbernecker subject.

I convinced a friend to buy a WOZ LE for his family and he is still waiting on it three years later. Many claimed delivery dates have come and gone and with each one I always feel the pain of my buddy. So yes, I don't even own a WoZ but I do feel like I have skin in the game so I read all these threads to see if there is some nugget of information there that I don't know about. Thinking about it, it would be pretty surprising to see a majority of people bashing any particular game be the same people who actually bought and still own the game... To me most people's opinions and reviews of games are more honest if you don't own the game.

#193 5 years ago
Quoted from dtown:

For me, the best thing about JJP and WOZ is that they've made Stern up their prices

Correction made.

#194 5 years ago

Theme.

#195 5 years ago
Quoted from PinballHelp:

I think you nailed it. This is a thinking, shooters game. To score well in WOZ you have to have a plan (or just get really lucky). This isn't a ramp-ramp-left-right-type game. It does not reward repetitive shots like many other machines.
In fact, WOZ is a game that often penalizes you for bad shots. Things need to be done in a certain order to really kick the game into overdrive. I don't know of a game where hitting the wrong thing at the wrong time can set you back as much as in WOZ. HOADC requires such precise shooting it's arguable if you can intentionally control the results. ECMB requires precision and alternating targets. To set up rescue MB you have to follow a sequence of specific shots, where if you capture dorothy and you try to spell rescue and instead shoot the wrong shot, you'll have to beat down 3 more winky targets to get another chance. Stack the wrong mode with Crystal Ball and you lose your playfield lighting and can't figure out what to shoot for.. lol.. the game can be extremely challenging.
I think this thread has been productive. I think there are plenty of legitimate reasons why people might not like WOZ but I think many of those that don't might change their mind if they got more play time. But I also recognize not everybody likes that type of game.

As a disclaimer I have not played 3.0 code yet, and hardly can claim to be a WoZ master.

I have nothing against hard games. In fact I pass on buying most games for being too easy (i.e. games get too samey) or too long playing.

But WoZ takes a lot of this to an extreme, much of what you describe most people would categorize as not fun. It seems there is all stick, very little carrot.

There is no gimme multiball, cool mode that is easy to start etc... Without the LCD display and flashy playfield lights to draw in players like flies, this game would be DOA. Obviously shiny stuff matters a lot based on earnings reports, but this game is more TZ than AF in terms of how it greets players.

And I don't think that is something a company should be shooting for in 2014.

-2
#196 5 years ago

Amazing reply. Great to see most of the same people who have bashed WOZ and JJP for months on end give your reply a thumbs up. Typical, lol.

17
#197 5 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Amazing reply. Great to see most of the same people who have bashed WOZ and JJP for months on end give your reply a thumbs up. Typical, lol.

We love your dedication Panzer. However you need new material

#198 5 years ago
Quoted from BC_Gambit:

As a disclaimer I have not played 3.0 code yet, and hardly can claim to be a WoZ master.
I have nothing against hard games. In fact I pass on buying most games for being too easy (i.e. games get too samey) or too long playing.
But WoZ takes a lot of this to an extreme, much of what you describe most people would categorize as not fun. It seems there is all stick, very little carrot.
There is no gimme multiball, cool mode that is easy to start etc... Without the LCD display and flashy playfield lights to draw in players like flies, this game would be DOA. Obviously shiny stuff matters a lot based on earnings reports, but this game is more TZ than AF in terms of how it greets players.
And I don't think that is something a company should be shooting for in 2014.

ECMB would be your gimme multiball, it pretty easy to get. The rest of the game is pretty damn difficult no matter how you slice it. It's got people closeing up their outlanes, making it easy to get extra balls, playing it in five ball, maxing out ball save, and God knows what other adjustments to help them get farther in the game. I plan to do none the sort, so far playing stock factory settings and I intend to keep it that way. The carrot is there but you are going to have to think a little and work towards it. Like I said, that's not something the average person wants to do when they approach a game. I think they did a pretty good job appealing to both players and nonplayers. The average person can approach the game, knock the ball around and feel like they accomplished something, at the same time there is plenty of depth and skill required shots to keep the more hard core players happy.

Christ I can remember people begging for a ball save feature after a crystal ball mode triggered (weak flippers? No hold?..don't remember), really? More evidence of people wanting to be spoon fed. How about paying attention and being ready...

Edit: I might.....might enable a timed ball save, just to eliminate a quick drain immediately after a plunge.

#199 5 years ago
Quoted from tjohns14:

Only one thing kills it for me. LCD screen i dont think lcd's backboxes belong on pins. After all it is not a video game. its got a mechanical ball and video games helped kill pinball. My favorites era is early 90's DMD. Thats the same reason virtual pins dont work for me, im not a fan. I want to see,hear,feel the ball. IMO.

Pinball has to evolve to survive.

Gameplay aside, I know that in my lineup, the WOZ pin always gets the most attention from new players to the hobby simply for the fact that the backbox not only makes it far easier for them to follow the ruleset/objectives, but it also acts like an advertising billboard to those in the immediate vicinity.

If it encourages new players to choose pinball (even a hybrid model) over other screen based alternatives then the machine has achieved its main objective.

#200 5 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

You can say that again!

Oh, he will.

...and again, and again...

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