The best thing about WOZ is that it was the first game I saw with anti-glare glass. I think it's the same for a lot of people, and I was sold from the get-go. Is Stern following with this? They're probably working on some kind of force-field technology.

I don't like the way they used a lot of the movie assets. The stuff they used looks badly looped, obviously reversed back. I don't know. Lots of the little visual effects touches aren't so hot. I find it distracting.

I don't think the display is used any differently than a DMD. It's just awkward to have all this real estate besides the score, so I guess you don't need instant info, and maybe you have this lame animation running in a loop. On a DMD you can accept a cheesy little animation loop, but on the big display if it looks wack just forget about it. TV over the pinball is a 20th century conception of pinball innovation.

Yeah, WOZ isn't my thing, the shoes on the flipper weird me out. Whatever. It plays okay. It's no TZ. The rules are deep. I played about 20 games on it and it never seems like I have the same game. I'm alright, but most games feel like house games. I got multiball once. I catch on to rules alright, but honestly it's a surprise when the ball lock turns on. What I'm always thinking is "Well all the shots are kinda lit."

Play more on it! MB once? It needs a lot of time…….more you play, the more you love

Usually female, but I know yours pretty well.

If you're ever in Jersey, Flank, you're welcome to stop by and beat the crap out of my WOZ for as long as you like. It's a great game, and I know you'll love it because it's just as much of a drain monster as your beloved Tron!

Thanks BB! I will take you up on that if I ever get out East, you do know this niceness has improved your rating on the DB'ery scale right? I thought you were working for a worse one.

Does it really matter? There has never been a pinball machine that everyone loves. Why should Woz be any different?

Right on!

WOZ is number one at many locations in earnings. #1 on Play Meter.

The hate on here comes from the same small group of people who have bashed it for months now.

WOZ offers more game, toys, features and depth than any other modern pin in my opinion. Top 5 all day long. JJP hit it out of the park with WOZ. It's the only NIB pin being made today that has enough toys, features and code support to justify a $7,500 price tag.

Really like that post....I second the offer to play mine, if you guys ever go through Asheville!!!...have recently acquired a TRONLE that sits next to my WOZ, so you can thrash WOZ ( mine is setup great and rocks)..and give me some tips on keeping TRON from kicking my ass on a regular basis.....

Well to be fair at least the code for WOZ is now complete and offers more depth than any other pin being made today. It's also nice not waiting 6 months to a year for a code update...

The primary reason people hate it is because Jersey Jack was trying extremely hard to promote the game as a "21st century vision of pinball" with their LCD display and other features. However, when the game was released, it disappointed many due to its lack of original toys (some looked like Stern-quality) and terrible sounds (golden brick road advance > death). Despite the major shortcomings it has a large rule set and some great multi balls that people don't give the game credit for.

We have lots of DB's down south Flanker! You can come bang Dorothy all day if you ever make it down here...

Peoples' opinions are subjective. But not all opinions are equally-informed.

We all have heard over and over how you don't like stuff. But the reason WHY you don't like things is lame and ambiguous, and that carries over into whether or not your opinion is more based on emotion and prejudice, than actual substantive knowledge and experience with the game.

So be it. We know where you stand. Yet you keep beating your own dead horse and flogging it for everybody else to see, yet you never share anything new or informative with people.

Please tell me I'm not the only one who sees the irony in a statement touting JJP timeliness.

Hey now, big boy!

Wish I could have said it that well...

JJP's timeliness for code is the best in the industry! The game had updates once a month (sometimes two) for nearly a year and now owners hear that another update to polish the game even more is coming. No one is doing code support better than JJP at the moment.

I think the game is great and couldn't give a shit if someone likes it or not. Moving along.....

Met just got a big update within the last couple weeks. ACDC got a smaller one. Mustang has very good code for being the newest Stern pin. ST is probably lacking the most, but what it has is still pretty good.

Agreed, Stern has improved a bit on releasing code but there communication about it is still subpar, ST and Avengers are the only 2 games that could really use an update.

Also consider, JJP has 1 game to do updates for, not hard to prioritize.

I have to thank you and agree with you as well. My kids get on to me about this. But is is how I think......... so I express myself in the same way,.

I, myself, am the King, and as the King, I award you TOO!....... 10,000 POINTS! ... (or character spotted or what have you, take your pick... you have earned it.)

Most games don't need much code update, after being newly released.

Remember where Woz started?

To be fair most games don't have a deep quest based ruleset like WOZ and a similar number of toys and features that requiring coding.

You have a good point about where WOZ started. A lot had to be implemented into the game code wise over the past year as Keith had created a very deep ruleset for the game. 10 months after release though the code is complete and the game has one of the deepest rulesets in pinball. People have waited well over 10 months for other games code to be complete with rulesets that are not as complex.

I'm not saying code support is bad for Stern games as they have gotten a little better at it. I'm thankful for all of the updates ACDC has received as I own a Premium. Just givings props to JJP for their amazing code support for WOZ and open communication regarding code with customers.

"You have a good point about where WOZ started"

^^^^^^^^^

edit.

I did not read past your first sentence.

I like woz. May own one sometime in the next twelve months.

Some pro wozzers think current non wozzers "hate" woz, when various facts are brought to the surface here. Two different things.

I might buy a huo wozle, in a couple years.....

Let's see Panzer 10 months for code update vs 3 years for game . Tough pick.

I rather wait 3 years for a game with complete code, with more toys / features that justify its price, then own a game for 3 years, or even two, while being left in the dark wondering when code will be completed. Easy pick. Code brings a game a live and Keith and Ted did an amazing job doing just that with WOZ.

I received mine in September, and I think I'm finally ready to sell. The three-year wait/anticipation was rough, and made me think I'd never get rid of it, but its just not for me. Not at this stage of my life anyway. No $7000 pin is.

The game is fine, uses the theme well, so deep I'll never see 85% of it (because I'm awful). I'm not going to rehash all of that. The original question 'why do people hate woz?' People like to make their opinions known. That's why the internet is such a hit.

At the end of the day, any pinball is better than NO pinball, so I don't see the point in bashing stuff. You don't like it? Keep scrolling online, keep walking in the arcades. No big deal.

Now I need to talk my wife into selling WOZ! My backyard needs the cash!

What game went three years with incomplete code?

Sorry, spit diet coke through my nose and couldn't read any further....

Go back to where (of ALL things) you are bragging on JJP's timeliness?

I think you're better of sticking with Macro #1:
"More toys, LCD, Widebody!!!!!, best built game in history, The Journey, Widebody, great software, Widebody, Stern Sucks,,, er, I mean, "Widebody'"

btw, this thread is dumb.... who the f@#$ "hates" a pinball machine? Good god, just don't drop a quarter in one you don't like and move on.... Hate Pinball???! Sigh.

It's a fun game. Simple as that. Is it a keeper for me? Don't know yet, but I'm enjoying it so far.

I don't think anybody really "hates" WOZ. JJP's business practices probably is where the hate comes from. Also I find it amusing how sensitive some people are with this topic. People state their opinion and they get labeled as either one of "the usuals" or "uninformed".

I own the game and I like it, but the journey was not the reward for me. Lets just say I will never preorder a game from JJP again.

Oh here it comes. Get ready for the WOF example. It's coming in 3, 2, 1... GO.

Spot on. I don't hate WoZ. It is a good game... actually very good IMHO. Not a game play that will satisfy everybody but I doubt many people actually hate it. Perhaps in reaction to the hype it generated.

JJP, on the other hand, is another story...

The games build quality is quite outstanding.
As for the game itself I find this is the only game I have ever had in my collection that I do not yearn to play much at all.
Its quite boring for me.
It doesn't even come close to TZ.

But each to their own of course. We ALL like different games.

Ditto. It comes down to not enough satisfying shots which makes for boring gameplay.

Because in general people love to hate, and the classic theme makes them feel too warm and fuzzy inside.

I think it's a size of their penis thing.

Woz, really not a machine for me.

Theme is way too polarising. In the UK 2nd hand sales of the title are really hard. If you liked the theme then you were probably one of a handful of people who pre-ordered it. Resales are stalling badly. Would I pick one up for 3 grand (same price as a 2nd hand Stern) possibly, although it wouldn't be my first choice. 5 grand? Not a chance. (brand new I think it's pushing 6-7 grand here (over $10,000-$11,000)

Always surprised that it doesn't get more critisim for the LCD use. The multiball graphics are truely dire. Really dated bowling alley style animation that does it absolutely no favours.

It initially had good feedback in the UK due to alleged great build quality. Knew several people who then pre-ordered on this basis. Then people got to play it. Code didn't work and various things kept breaking down. Really shot themseleves in the foot with this and the pre-orders were cancelled. Trying to explain this away as pre-production models smacked of excuses. The incomplete software then really killed whatever was left of the feel good factor.

Suspect it would work well on site as the backscreen would pull in the punters.

Fingers crossed the Hobbit is better. I'm in on that and hope the LCD graphics are far superior.

This game is our top earner for a long time.
Also the top problem machine for a long time!

I like that its also cl"ass"y with B&W. I will just sit watching until this amazing video ends. lol

BUT... I really love WOZ. Just exceeds my pinball-budget.

But, since hate is used in the subject. I HATE the buy back function where you get a chance to win back your ball. TAKES FOREVER. Or was this removed already? Dont own one so I am out of the rainbow.

Top earner dont tell everything how good a pin is. Indy stern is a top earner too. Thats hardly a top pin.

That it is the top problem pin might be related to that its the pin which is played the most too. More hours of play, more maintenance.

I love it and my wife and kids love it......... in the end its all that matters, someone close this thread down.

Yeah, who needs people sharing opinions in a place like this. Go to a pinball forum for something like that.

To be fair the machines at Modern have all the outlines set to tournament mode meaning fully opened (If adjustable).

We do this as there are many tournaments and league nights.

The Woz at Modern is set up much harder than even my personal machine (Factory settings, Default outlines)

Please don't close this thread down. I'm finding it very interesting. Yes, it has gotten into a bit of "back and forth" with people saying "nah nah" to others, but the discussion is also ongoing. The reason I'm finding it interesting is because at some point I want to hear people really drill down to the real question. What I'm seeing is that people are still giving reasons why the don't like the game. And of course that is a subjective matter. There are games I don't like that others do. My reasons are pretty obvious usually, I just don't like it. And that is enough. But the crux of the matter that nobody has answered yet is why pursue the game with such vigor after establishing that subjective opinion. That is the stuff I want to hear about here.

To the OP:

-theme kills it for me. I think Hobbit will be the success JJP is hoping for (needs). A more appealing theme on a great pinball platform.

they can argue that the WOZ theme transcends beyond the normal pinhead market, but we're not seeing the sales to back that up (like Mustang appearing in Ford dealerships which are new market sales).

Only one thing kills it for me. LCD screen i dont think lcd's backboxes belong on pins. After all it is not a video game. its got a mechanical ball and video games helped kill pinball. My favorites era is early 90's DMD. Thats the same reason virtual pins dont work for me, im not a fan. I want to see,hear,feel the ball. IMO.

Jealousy.

And you would be getting an amazing deal for that trade. Good luck.