Ooh - I love Edsels! Kind of like WOZ in that classic beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Bermuda Edsel staion wagon (resized).jpg

I did just buy a Tesla...

Quite a few people in this thread seem to think the Wizard of Oz story is just some kiddie tale.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_interpretations_of_The_Wonderful_Wizard_of_Oz

It's actually a much deeper and more political story when you look past the fantasy on the surface.

It's easy to understand why some people hate the WOZ visual style though. Some people just hate colorful things. WOZ the movie and the pinball are full of bright colors. The kind of guys I know who dress in all black, have black ink tattoos, and drive black cars... Yeah they could not care less about WOZ. It basically looks like a gay pride parade to them.

But anyways, any haters selling one cheap??

That's one fine looking wagon! 10k by 1985. Probably worth a lot more than that now.

Theme matters when it comes to an expensive purchase. If you don't have an emotional attachment to it, you're not going to commit 8 or 9k to it. Shitty themes like Demo Man or Shadow didn't matter a few years back because the game's only cost $800 on Craigslist! Gameplay trumps theme when it's cheap. When it's pricey, you need a theme you like too.

I have been hating on WOZ since it was announced, but last week I bought a beautiful WOZLE and I hope I eat every negative word I have ever said about the game. I am fully prepared to publically apologize if a I am wrong!

Gameplay matters when it comes to an expensive purchase just as well.

I completely agree. Level headed buyers who don't have an emotional attachment, won't commit. Emotion is to blame why so many preorder an unknown entity - blind attachment to a theme.

Do you think interest in TBL won't be affected if the rules don't change and the game stays boring? Even die-hard TBL-ers eventually realize a great theme that is not fun won't get played.

Many others who love the theme but didn't make an emotional purchase will safely wait to see if the gameplay improves before putting down the cash.

Game-play is exactly why games like Shadow and Woz are popular, not because of theme. And also why TS jumped in price.

Rules will trump theme for those who value rules and gameplay. I'd rather buy a poster if it's a cool theme that is boring to play.

Interesting. It can take some tuning to really get it dialed in, and it takes some time investment to really get the rules, but it can be a crazy experience once you get rolling on a good game.

And the toto and no place like home modes are totally unique.

- dim GI
- retina burning inserts
- overuse of color changing
- no flashers
- rollover buttons light locks
- ear piercing sounds
- gazillion stand-up targets, one ramp
- boring, clunky layout
- stop & go play
- upper playfields not fun
- theme

Off the top of my head.

I almost forgot:

- protruding start button

Can't even lean against the damn thing.

I only play the game if I have a friend with me because someone needs to hold a phone flashlight above the game or you can't see the ball. Had the same issue at a couple locations. It's pretty strange to make a colorful, beautiful game that you can't see. I have no idea if I actually like the game.

Ya if you don't like it I'll give you $500 for it and enjoy every minute of it

nailed it. add horrible repetitive callouts and bad voiceover actors

People hate WOZ because we are all grown men now and not little children.

Admittedly, the dimness of the GI is a problem in this pin. In a home environment, there are several ways to fix this.

Honestly I think a few people were pissed that another company came along and one upped Stern with their first game that offered far more value, newer tech, and with it built the most loaded game since Twilight Zone. Well, that and the frequent substantial code updates for the game while they waited months on end for updates from Stern.

There are several ways to fix this regardless of environment. It's true the GI is lacking, but there are excellent kits available.

Based on a few comments I've read, some people who hate Woz are exactly the opposite.

There is an inexpensive mod available for that:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/request-start-button-cover-for-woz

You might want to give it a rest. Very few people read your posts anymore and those who do understand they don't hold any value.

You are correct. I just meant you have more control in your home whereas on location you can't always tell an operator what to do.

I have a pole lamp that shines over my shoulder. I turn it on for WOZ and off for my other pins. Easy and completely solves the issue.

There are also lighting kits for those who want an in game solution.

Actually I don't think Panzer (in this case) is too far off. JJP pushed the market along. To say that WoZ is the modern day TZ is not a stretch. Stern is now in catch up mode. They will be going to the LCD. They will be rewriting their OS/System layer. They will be challenged on the quality of their game. They will be challenged on more timely code updates.

Don't get me wrong. JJP has their issues too (price, timelines, communication, etc.), but this competition has been good for pinball proper. With all of that said, let's get along better on these boards !!!

See ya all at Expo! (for those that are going).

I have to agree. The "lack of GI" on WoZ is really getting old. Yes, it was a miss on WoZ. Completely addressed in TH. This is a lesson learned, and a nice reaction by JJP to never walk into that tar pit.

If you have a dark basement, get the kit to make the GI better. It is a rounding error cost compared to the cost of the pin. Problem solved, move on.....sigh.

My basement has enough light where it doesn't bother me. So simply don't need it.

Thread is called "Why Do People Hate WoZ," yet Jackobites downvote people who answer that exact question calmly with specifics.

At my friend's house, we use an even cheaper mod to prevent accidental WOZ games: the power switch.

At my local pin location with over 40 pins and noticed a group of three casual off the street pin noobs walking up and down the rows. The group was one pretty intoxicated guy, a good looking girl and her younger brother. The big drunk guy was letting the other two pick out the games to play. They first stopped at the early as row and I believe they played a classic title. Then I noticed them again playing south park. They where finally closer to me stopped by WOZ and the guy mentioned something about the price of 1$ per game. I mentioned to him that it may not be on the price card but I knew that you got six games for 5$. He thanked me but said we won't be back here for another 10 months and was getting low on beer money. Well I am pretty sure they all played that game several times. Not sure but I think they where hooked on it, and will likely be back sooner. They did glance at MM but didn't play, GB very close to WoZ never got a look?

Kind of interesting seeing what machines people put hard earned money into given such a large collection.

Oh and after WOZ they got a rack of balls and where shooting pool.

Kept a pretty good eye on those strangers... How good looking was she?

I really don't mind the pricing that much hell HH being the first .50 per play i can remember back in the mid 80s and with the cost of new machines, the increase in maintenance costs. Kind of seems like a pretty good value. Imo.

Oh you got me! Well I think most married men would have definitely considered her a home wrecker. .

can't argue with that. If you can afford it, it's the way to go. Show some positiveness towards the planet. Kudos.

When I was a kid our annual watching of The Wizard of Oz included my dad making the annual trip to McDonalds, which was a relatively new place in our neighborhood. Now everytime I see a WoZ, I end up craving a Big Mac. And I just can't do that to myself.

CNKay, I have mine on location and it does very well. It gets more plays than my Williams despite being twice the price and earned about twice what my acdc premium did that was right next to it.

Yep. I haven't had McDonalds since the great food poisoning incident of 1992. My advice- never eat at an all-you-can eat McDonalds.

Wasn't that Jack in the Box? After that you could get four tacos for 99 cents.

Exactly! WOZ does an amazing job of throwing it's sucky theme in your face!

Are any of them based on anything good anymore?

Haven't read every post here.

"Why Do People Hate WoZ?" According to some of the posts it seems that the game is getting played and is a good earner. There is some hate, but generally the masses like it.

As for the band America, "Oz never gave anything to the Tin Man".

Yep. And they can't stand it when someone like me criticizes WOZ, because they can't point to ulterior motives. I'm not a Stern fanboy, I want Jack and JJP to succeed, And I am a past and potentially future customer.
I think Jack just made the mistake of trying to out Twilight Zone, Twilight Zone. He started with the idea of making a full featured, solidly built game in contrast to Stern's increasingly cost cutting model. If you remember, the WOZ whitewood was in a TZ cabinet. They could have used a Popeye or Road Show cabinet, or at least taken the decals off, but it was no accident that they chose a TZ cabinet. I could almost picture the conversation where Jack says "TZ has one upper playfield, we'll put two in WOZ! TZ has 4 flippers, we'll put 6 in WOZ! TZ is a fun game, we'll put double the fun in WOZ!"
Now can we retire this thread until next year.

Yep. Several Ecoli deaths from undercooking their patties. My friend used to go order at the drive thru and ask for a "murder burger and fries, I mean Jumbo Jack and fries". He thought it was funny, I told him I hope he likes extra spit with that. They even came out with a steak if you remember. Whose brilliant call was that?But I digress. I was referring to my personal experience in Tucson where they had an all you can eat McDonalds for $3.99

I remember. Shortly after that a friend said "Hey, there's a Jack in the Box, lets eat!" I said yeah, didn't a bunch of people just die from their food?

And he said " I'm going to show you how to eat killer bacteria and live!" So we did....

Zombies > Rainbows

Lyrics police time:

"Oz never did give nothing to the Tin Man."

Jack in the Box Tacos > Big Mac

If anyone has WOZ they hate so much and want to sell it for 7k and you are within 2 hours from Akron Ohio I got CASH

There's plenty of early WOZ out there that command such prices. Lot's of history with them so prices are reasonable.

LOL. Saw that post you quote. ie this

Sounds like the best sarcasm. Or stupidly funny troll bait. TWD is based on one of the top rated and currently watched shows in TV and for the last multiple years, with memorable extreme story-lines and action. Plus it is based on a very very popular horror theme that is over 80 years old now, with over 400 films. One of the few themes in years to push the boundaries of pinball. Just watch the awesome amazing crazy dots.

Knowing pin history, it sounds like a great theme for a pin!

I have the LE so I do enjoy the more ambiguous zombie artwork on it. I like the TWD show but know it will come and go fast in the end. As well, the general zombie elements are well integrated, awesome and will always have a place in contemporary modernism. I bought the pin for the cool zombie theme much much more than TWD show theme. Only option out there makes it even more unique.

We finally got one on location near me, so I'll be trying it out soon.