think all he's saying is nobody is likely to split hairs about whether it is the operating system or something else that causes a "crash" or reset. Understand why you do, but end user not so much

OK, computer-language stuff aside - people have said the game will reset midplay. People have reported dead games or games that turn on but won't boot at all. My definition of "Crash" is probably different than yours...but if a game reset while I was playing, that's a crash.

what would the technical term for these failures be for future reference alex?

Improperly failed to stay on - due in NO PART to the owner of the company

after years in data processing, i learned to never say never...

"not our fault, blame someone else" failures...

No. Bad dogs! The first rule about the computer system in WOZ is that we do not talk about the computer system in WOZ. I have never seen a single discussion on that point go well. Not once. Both sides get chapped thinking they are correct (and sometimes they can both be technically correct, but they are both missing the point). No minds are going to be changed. No understanding will be found. Bad dogs.

I bought my pin from a previous owner and so far JJP has been great about honoring the warranty. I haven't need to use it but for two very minor issues, a chord and a switch wireform that needed replacing. I'm really looking to 4.0 coming out and love WOZ tons.

I'm weary of the JJP versus Stern debates. Like WOZ and many Stern pins. Neither company is perfect and have their issues, but glad they're around. I'm also thrived we now live in an era that we have some more companies developing and working on new pins also.

I can understand some of the angst with WOZ and JJP, but I believe the company is already getting better and has learned a lot. Really looking forward to The Hobbit, Pat Lawlor pin, and other releases by them.

Things would be so boring w/o Stern or JJP.

"I don't enjoy playing WOZ, and I really don't like Stern haters crapping on my favorite manufacturer, but regardless of the situation at least be honest. JJP and Stern, and any other manufacturer should not have to warranty items purchased from unauthorized distributors. And that is ALL that was said."

Would be nice to see the JJP versus Stern haters post stop. Those points have been made over and over. No need to make this like current politics. Can like one, both, or even I guess even neither companies but this by some desire to have an us against them fighting is old.

If you chose to dislike WOZ, that doesn't offend me anymore that if you don't like chocolate. We all have differences and keeps things interesting.

How do you expect to be taken seriously when you so obviously took Jack's statement completely out of context?

Actually, while we all agree he didn't handle the situation very well and his post was not professional in the least, he did make his point very clear. There is NO warranty when purchased from unauthorized distributors.

I don't enjoy playing WOZ, and I really don't like Stern haters crapping on my favorite manufacturer, but regardless of the situation at least be honest. JJP and Stern, and any other manufacturer should not have to warranty items purchased from unauthorized distributors. And that is ALL that was said.

he was actually even clearer a few posts after that in that thread than the ones quoted:

The company has a policy. In this case a factory warranty that has a value, or not, depending on who buys the game.
We just want to make potential buyers aware that it does not apply to unauthorized dealers or second hand owners.
We are very supportive of the secondary market and beyond. We will support anything we build but at a cost out of warranty.

Actually thats exactly what you are doing. I posted his comment and the link to the entire thread. Cant get more context than that ; )

would you care to enumerate the things that they have learned? or is that simply a "belief"?

Hmm, I didn't liked the theme. Now I am starting to think the Wicked Witch is hot:

I don't see any panic here. Corn appears to be a calm vegetable.

What it's doing in a WOZ ... Well, I don't know.

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rd

does this colonel appear calm?

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Exactly Greg. Alex knows the games crashed and is trying to obfuscate it with technical bs. I don't care what the root cause is, if any of those things happen its a crash and a bad user experience.

I'm sorry I confused someone with your mediocre technical skill level but the fact remains the "PC" as it was described did not crash. Period. End of sentence.

I was playing a WOZ here in NZ two weeks ago and it locked up and needed to be rebooted.

As far as I'm concerned, that's a crash.

Sweet corn kernals or not, I don't know. But it stopped working mid game and needed to be rebooted.

rd.

That's a "crash" in my book, regardless of how the computer geeks classify it.

Pass the kernals.

popcorn.gif

User experience is the only metric that counts, period (end user, client, customer whatever term you like). Pins are quite binary if you want to take it to that level, they either work or they are not working.

Don't know about binary or kernals ... But I do know that if a pinball machine stops working in the middle of a game, that's not ideal.

The only time I've had a WPC/Sys11/Stern stop in the middle of a game is when smoke starts pouring off a locked up coil. Usually I just hold my breath and keep on playing through the fire. Because that's how we roll here in Pukekohe.

rd.

Never had a WPC reset on you, really? They are like, famous for reset issues. Of course that's over a TON of machines over the years, not a small batch like WOZ. But it's happened to me plenty of times at home, arcade, tourneys...etc.

That Pinsider isn't selling those "Stops WPC resetting" boards cause it never happens.

Yes, I take that back. I have had WPCs reset, notably TZ and STTNG. After 20 years of running, they need some TLC.

But once they're rebuilt and the issues sorted, they don't do it anymore. At least mine don't.

rd.

Instead of insulting me listen to your customers and provide a better user experience.

Maybe I haven't played this pin enough, but I could have sworn that I'd sent a few shots into the 'Haunted Forest' with that flipper. (Even if that's correct, I'm not sure whether the points from that turn out to be worth much.)

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I've seen more than a few incidents of that on Williams' IJ tables.

Any WPC is susceptible to resetting issues.

But the ones that are the worse are STTNG, TZ and IJ. Presumably because they have so much shit everywhere, the system is taxed to the max and it gets flogged out after years of running.

rd.

key point.

I wonder what some of today's pin will look like in 20 years....even 10 years. I suspect (if any are even around) it wont be a pretty sight....

They will be in better shape than their predecessors.

B/W games had almost no clear coat (other than the last few years), and were designed to last 3 years.

Today's games have much better protection, and Ops know they can sell used games for thousands of dollars.

The upper right flipper has about 6 things to shoot at. Look back though the thread. Just because there isn't a ramp to shoot up doesn't mean there isn't anything to shoot for. Speaking of that flipper, I don't like that you can't see the ball coming down to it. An upper flipper is already hard enough to get the timing down on. This makes it all the more difficult, but not from a skill standpoint.

Two bits

Yes. It's pretty much guesstimate the timing on that, and pray that you hit it right.

There you go right there. Most peoples opinion is, "sh!t the game only has one ramp? The game sucks." There are a ton of people out there that equate the amount of ramps a game has with how fun or good a game is to play. People were flipping their lids when they found out WOZ only had one ramp. I guess for some people they just like to watch the ball roll around some cool pathways, doesn't matter what is actually happening in the game. You know...I defense of this type of person, my mom is like like this. She really doesn't care what is going on in the game, she just likes to flip the ball, and even if she doesn't actually accomplish anything, a long ball time equals a fun good game.

AWESOME !

I'm watching woz with my girl right now, and it seems the scarecrow sums it up quite nicely.

Scarecrow: Well, some people without brains do an awful lot of talking don't they?

Now we know why WOZ post are always novels .

She is, she just likes to kick the ball around and shoot for things, not really so much what is happening when she makes a shot. She is in her early 60's and still plays when she can. That damn lady has more of a life than i do lol.

I will admit it is fun to watch the ball cruise around cool pathways but it ussually doesnt immediatly equal the game being fun. Most know that some of the more simple built games are really fun. I think this is where we have a bunch of older folks gone full circle and back to EM's.

Reminds me, i need to make a trip to the mama's house to make sure all pins are functioning correctly. They have been getting played a lot and i havent been there in a few months. I try to make it there once in a while to check on them.

I used to see TZ reset occasionally when it was brand new in 1992-93 on location. Powerball mania in particular was a crapshoot.

The funny part is the people who bitch about woz and line up to kiss SR's ass forgot one of the "king's" most popular if not the most popular game of his career is... You guessed it.. A SINGLE RAMP GAME. Car 504....

Flash is probably SRs most popular game and it has no ramps.

Star Trek the Next Generation is Steve Ritchie's most popular game and it has 3 ramps .