There's just way more demand, and way more people interested in blowing a lot of money on these tables. I think fisherdaman was getting at is there's a lot more casual interest now, and people don't always know what they're doing. I would put myself in that group sometimes!

Then I'm a winner!

My sister and her husband are antique sellers. They have been miffed ever since Antique Road show. It made picking good deals much harder, because people now know old stuff = money.

My collection is on a much lower level than most of you guys on here but the deals are out there.
out of all the pins I own, I have never paid more than $500 for one.
Only one I paid 500 for and another one 400, and the rest was 300 and less.
I could have had several more at a really low price but missed out for being too late.

Exactly !! people apply the same concept to pinball, and that's why you see beat up EMs with an asking price of 6k.

And it brings you just as much enjoyment.

I think you are on to something here.

LTG : )

I enjoy bringing old pins back to life.
I get more gratification out of fixing old pins up more than I do playing them.....Of course I get plenty of play time working on them.

Everyone knows that if you are selling a machine it is as valuable as its weight in GOLD!
If you are buying it's normally a TURD!
With so many reasons/defects noted by potential buyers to beat the sellers price down.
And there normally isn't much middle ground between the two.

You need to work on your spelling. You're got one to many N's and are missing an E.

Not quite. There were multiple people trying to screw me out of the one I picked up and it was several hundred more than that. Just because the hate bandwagon is strong for Wrestlemania doesn't mean that they aren't people out there who will pay for one. It's not everybody's cup of tea (what game is) but the new code is much better than it was and the game is extremely difficult, so it has it's positives.

When I buy games I buy low and when I sell games I sell low and I keep it local for the most part. Keeps it simple. If I can't get it for the price I want, I pass. I'm patient, I don't need a game that badly. I don't overpay and I don't pay inflated prices that people want for their games with tons of aftermarket mods. Sellers can remove them if they want as most have little to no value to me with a few exceptions. When I sell, I play it the same way. No mystery prices, no guessing games, no haggling needed. Come and see the game and buy it or don't. My price is my price and the game will sell very quickly at that price, usually through word or mouth or inquiries without me even advertising it is for sale. This method has been very successful and stress free for me.

I have made an offer lower than maybe I would have liked to be offered, but mentioned "here's my offer, if you take it great, if not, that's cool too" your not going to hurt my feelers by saying no to my offer. Then they have a window to counter, and that's usually the number I was aiming for anyway!!

Yeah, if you couch a low-ball offer properly (make it somewhat apologetic, "it's a nice looking game, this is what I can do, I understand if you want to wait for an offer closer to your asking price" instead of "your game is garbage, I'd never pay a penny more than $X for it") you're much less likely to alienate the seller and more likely to end up getting the game.

WWE is not difficult...at least not the pro. It's literally stay up top as much as possible, and stay OUT OF FIGHTS until you max your bonus multiplier. It's only hard if you do the optional things...like actually try to play Tag Team Multiball, or Ref modes LOL. I really have grown to like it, but our location just got rid of theirs! >=(

Anyways, let's do some false equivalency....I just bought a Future Spa for 300 bucks?

It's extremely difficult from a completion standpoint. I wasn't talking about playing for high scores.

Exactly!! Every time I talk to someone that's not in the hobby per say that just happens to own a game they have "already done there research" and looked on Ebay. Basically they see stupid ASKING prices for games and they think there's is worth that much and more since its got LED's in it. When I ask them, "was that the ASKING price or the SOLD price?" they always say ASKING. That's when I say, "we'll you can ask any price that you want, you just gotta find that one guy that will pay it."

Shows like Pickers have nothing to do with it.

John

Reminds me of a joke I heard once....

Why are divorces so expensive?
Because they are worth it!

How about another one...

What do you want for your birthday?
A Divorce!
I wasn't planning on spending that much.

I find it more challenging to determine the current fair market value of pins that don't list often. There's still pinflation on pins that rarely get sold but if you don't have a lot of sales history how do pinside's values get adjusted?

I always find it amusing when people refer you to whatever price "guide" benefits them the most. One minute its Pinside. Then mr pinball. Next its Bostonpinballbiz ebay sales summary. Whichever one shows a higher value is obviously the most accurate. Sure i will look up the estimated value (then convert into our Canadian play money) but thats just a reference point. No price guide can accurately reflect the value of a game in every town or city across our countries. Wish we had a Canadian price guide - even if i buy a game across town its priced in USD first and converted. Fortunately if a game is listed too high the resident Price Police will step in

Best purchase experience i had was from a pinside member from PA prior to Allentown. Wasnt able to see the machine until the show but after reviewing 100+ high res pics (before i even asked for any) highlighting any minor deficiency and a lengthy phone call i made the deal (at asking price). When i finally got the machine it was even better than described and no surprises. There are still people with integrity in the hobby.

I've been that guy on the other end being upfront and honest about to condition. Took longer to sell but when they received it they could not believe how nice it was and thanked me for greatly.

Don't forget that prices are highly dependent on region or the manner in which a pin is sold.

West coast prices are different from East coast and are different from the Allentown show and different again from Canada.

If I buy a pin over the phone and ask for it to be shipped, I may have to pay more than a local who can pay cash and pick up in person (or I won't have a chance as why would the seller pick me?).

Ebay is a completely different market altogether with a 10% fee that has to be built in just to start with. BTW, search eBay for "pinball", sold, and sorted from most expensive to cheapest to view the real eBay pinball market.

A retail store that fixes up games and offers warranties/deliveries must charge much higher prices than a CL garage flipper (store has business expenses and pays taxes).

My point is that there is no such thing as "the price of the pin" as this is dependent on many factors, two of which are the WHERE and the HOW and these have to be taken into consideration when discussing whether people are asking too much.

That's not "one to many N's," it is exactly two.

Two words: market education
Applies to sellers (owners, brokers, dealers, distributors) and buyers.

Remember, dealers and brokers are direct competitors against collectors.
Owners are not collectors by basic definition.
PinSide is not "the market" or an exclusive source of game acquistion.

Periodic inflationary periods cause problems. Manufacturers also are a source of artificial pricing increases and "scarcity", common presently.

Other people use different sets of two words to describe what I am referring.

Supply and demand, greed and profit, fad and interest, enthusiasm and common sense, or logic and knowledge. Some are more accurate descriptions than others.

There is nothing wrong with paying a premium for a fully restored quality game.

It is completely wrong when an unscrupulous seller tries to unload a steaming turd with missing parts, blown electronics, and poor cosmetics onto an inexperienced buyer during a period when the market 'tidal wave' is high.

The experience comes from knowing the difference between the two, which requires the knowledge and wisdom gained from others in this hobby, time and experience, and using network contacts.

An well versed collector can locate and acquire nearly anything except the most rare of collectible items directly, just like a big game hunter. "Patient, always ready, know what they are looking for, and ready to pull the trigger."

The time is measured in months and years, not days or weeks.

The thing that people often forget is not the importance of finding (insert title game here), but the actual hunt.
Never be discouraged, that is the wrong mindset.

If a potential buyer knows someone is attempting to rape and extremely overcharge for a game, calmly ask a simple question to the owner, "Is there a small bar of gold bullion inside the cabinet, that I should know about?"

Don't expect to be invited back ever again.
Normally, you probably will not want too.

Know what you are buying with the title, the history, production run, and evaluation of game condition based on age and system generations. Do homework, if you are not an expert of a specific manufacturer. Alternatively, ask for help.

Best of fortune.

Whether you are buying or selling, the foundation is finding buyers and sellers that work an agreement to find a fair price for the title based on condition that is satisfactory for both parties. In some cases, the seller wins and gets a little more because the buyer feels the game is worth it to them. In some cases the buyer wins, because the seller has some motivation to move on, either because they need the cash or space, or have some other title in mind or whatever. I have won on both sides buying and selling, and my number one go to is honesty when working a deal.

I certainly share in your frustration when you are searching for games and you discover your own background research shows a game as overpriced. Unfortunately, a truly over the top asking price almost never gets sold or takes an extreme amount of time to do so. We all know the myriad reasons behind this, we all know the theory of supply and demand. A overpriced machine that is not getting played or enjoyed while waiting for a sale doesn't do justice for the hobby. If it is sitting around for a long time not getting some love from a hobbyist, it is not really making anyone happy. All you can do is shake your head and keep looking.

I wish this hypothesis was true in my area with regard to real estate. We have seen crazy inflation here too, but since housing is a must-have, people keep paying and (I have to assume) getting themselves into crazy debt.

When I put a pin up for sale it is priced to sell. Many ridiculously priced ads are either from people that are clueless or don't really want to sell. Maybe their wife forces them to sell, so they advertise it at a price which they know it won't sell.

It's probably 50/50. I think half of them are due to a lack of knowledge. Honestly, when you're just getting started it's hard to know what prices to trust. It's not like most things where you can just check sold prices on eBay. In fact, if you do check sold prices or worse yet, asking prices, you're likely going to have an inflated idea of what you machine might be worth. The other half are people that are probably just trying to get as much money as possible. Perhaps they are on the fence about selling it. If someone is willing to pay their high price, they will take it; but if not they have no qualms about keeping it.

There is only one N in wiener. And two E's. I assume Levi's post was autocorrected to "winner". Obviously he meant to say "Then I'm a wiener".

Woosh!

I'm still wet behind the ears but can tell you if nothing I've learned preparedness and patience are the keys.

I've tried averaging Mr. Pinball, Boston Pinball and Pinside but that doesn't take into account condition and location.

My local Craigslist is a shit show - everyone thinks their machine is gold lined. Once in a while a good deal pops up but act fast or lose out! That also creates rash decision making, not my strong suit.

I feel most people are just throwing out a number to see "what if" and after a short while they believe they're own inflated price. Unlike a car, pins don't have loans (at least I don't think they do), so there is rarely urgency to sell. Conversely, buyers may tend to get anxious and purchase too high, thus increasing the average or indicating to the public (through a removed ad) that the listed price was reasonable, or at least obtainable.

Pretty certain prices aren't going down, maybe stabilizing.

Trades seem to offer the best idea of value to me. What I want as it compares to what you want. I'm certain that's a tough call as well.

I'm thankful I own pins for fun, not as a business, cause figuring out pricing is a b!t@h!

Why does a dog lick his balls?

Because he can

It does take a while to learn what pins are actually worth and how to properly adjust for condition. You definitely can't go off the crazy asking prices on CL & Ebay. Seeing what sells and what sits on Pinside and at shows is a good barometer. And the Pinside Price Police usually chime in when a forum listing is over-priced.

Finding a buyer for a cheap machine is easy. Finding a buyer that will pay "market price" for a game is like finding a needle in a haystack. Finding a buyer for higher than market is also like finding a needle in a haystack. Most either sell cheap or look for the buyer that will pay most.

My point is that once you get "reasonable", the demand is pretty inelastic.

I don't know, I never see them anymore. I think they have been scared off by all the offended people. I once listed a Big Guns for $1100 and the PP showed up from all over the country to tell me I was a maniac. I just tossed it back at them and enjoyed the free bumps. Obviously someone disagreed with them and bought my game.

Every time I see an over priced mid 80s Gottlieb in meh shape sit for six months, I wonder where are they? I recently saw a Robowar with a sponge painted cabinet and no one complained about the price. It's crazy. Of course I don't do it, because I don't want to be a jerk

Price Police, where have you gone? You don't care about offending people and you certainly don't need friends. Come back! Sure you are annoying, but the service you provide is invaluable.

We're here, as we have always been. Let me see the pics and description of that Big Guns, and I'll give you my honest opinion. I don't know when you had this up for sale, but in the current market $1100 is not an unreasonable price for a Big Guns IF the condition warrants it. Oh, and BTW - I never call anyone a maniac.

I was editorializing

There are still many very experienced longtime collectors that provide private appraisals of value.
They are not classified as "price police" and highly respected in the community.

As I previously mentioned it takes a minimum of 5-10 years to gather the necessary experience to be able to accurately evaluate values of pinball machines, but the more years beyond that the better as eras and titles are expanded. It is also highly dependent on the number of machines evaluated, and what eras a person specializes on overall. An early Bally SS collector, does not necessarily know GTB wedge heads.
In time, a person will know what you are looking at, simply by a short evaluation within 5 minutes, regarding base value.
There is a big difference between a player, owner, collector, dealer or broker.

Those that are do fall into the category of "policing" generally are not informed enough in the entirety of the market pulsebeat to provide any nature of objective opinion of values anyway, constantly and persistently.
Buying pinball machines does not make one an expert.
Evaluating hundreds if not thousands of machines, knowing the the idiosyncrasies of titles, restoring games, understanding work involved, cross checking multiple venues of the market on a persistent basis, and watching industry developments and advancements does.
Even the same people can fall out of touch, if they take a break for as little as 3 months.

"Policing" by said people is simply an excuse here to be criticized by new enthusiasts, trolls, or used for punchlines for jokes on forums.
There is exceptional importance, but it depends on how it is handled.
If a person wants to know why experienced pinball appraisers (which there is no formal license or title) do not post this information, there is the answer. Another reason is they are simply too busy to bother.

Lack of knowledge causes things like shown below to happen, and occurred today while quickly perusing.
Antique stores can be just as bad as private owners due to complete lack of knowledge, both in pinball in general and value.
Many times the games are complete "cluster $#!@", do not even work at all, and much worse condition than that of a private owner. Sometimed treated the equivalent to furniture.

Yes, I do recognize (as may others) that this ad used the price as a means to get additional attention, as it is an old sales trick, but their "real" value is not going to be that much better.

This another example is a mass produced, common game title.
The ad included a second photo coming from virtual pinball conversion, and not the game.
No other photos, no more information.
Not an auspicious beginning, and hardly worth the effort to schedule appointment to review.

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