Not everybody wants it this way though - many (possibly most) buyers will try to negotiate, so as a seller you tend to build in that overhead like someone pointed out. different styles; this way also you aren't perceived as a dick for just saying "no, the price is the price" and closing off negotiations.

On the flip side, lots of buyers just want to know how much, and if it's too much, they walk, even if the seller planned to negotiate. Double edged sword.

I tend to price with some negotiating room, but have found a lot of buyers aren't creative with options. Offering to do the driving when doing a trade can save a seller a lot of money and/or time, for example. Or a 2-for-1, or even other types of bartering. There's lots of ways to close a deal that aren't just about $$

In the old days, if you wanted to sell something, you placed an ad at the local newspaper or the local shopping paper. And you paid to get that ad into print for a limited time. Since your ad was costing you, it was in your best interests to get it "priced right".

And occasionally, if you were buying you could call an old ad and see if the unit was still for sale and if it was you could make a low ball offer and usually get the item bought.

Fast forward to today with Craig's List to name just one "seller" list. CL allows every individual to price like they were a retailer without having retailer overhead like monthly rent. The seller posts a CL for free ad and waits 45 days and renews the ad for free. And just keeps renewing every 45 days.

As long as the machine is paid for and sales ads are free, the seller can take his sweet time and hold for his price.

The other side of this coin is the seller who underprices his pin and gets descended on by the buyer sharks. Like the price ignorant guy in Montana who put up a CFTBL for $1800.00; His ad was gone in 5 hours. Someone screwed themselves and someone else scored.

And then the risk is on you if there is a shipping problem. As a seller I've never agreed to participate in any way beyond letting STI pick it up (I've removed the balls and what not but ultimately I don't want responsibility for prep and certainly not in making any arrangements).

I've always viewed this as a way around some of the pricing games we get ourselves into. You can split the difference and but the buyer makes arrangements. I bought one of my early pins from a well known Pinsider, although I had to set up shipping. It came via STI and I had to lay another $100 on the movers but they brought it in the house. I went right out and spent $100 on a fridge dolly.

My point is you can cascade that into an agreement whereas otherwise one of you might walk away

if a game is overpriced, it won't sell easily. Some games aren't overpriced per se, but just aren't in demand. Some games are priced high because the seller bought at the top of the market and doesn't want to take a loss.

As a buyer, I avoid any ad that says "firm". Nothing personal, but I perceive that seller as inflexible. That inflexibility may also mean trouble if there are any issues during the transaction.

As a seller, I don't get upset at low offers. If it's too low, I just decline and move on. No harm, no foul.

Simple answer
G R E E D !

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I think most of it is the mentality that it is a tragedy if you don't sell a game for more than you paid for it. this causes the sellers to want more than they paid, and the buyers to try to get it for less than the going rate so they can resell it for more than they paid later on. the flippers take this concept to a more extreme level.

I only lost $500 when I sold my AC/DC, and I was pretty happy with that since I had played about 500 games on it. that seemed like a pretty even money deal to me. That only worked out because AC/DC is a popular game that went out of production.

I have a GnR that I might be able to sell at or above what I paid for it, but that would only be because prices have gone up in the 4 years since I bought it. If I ever wanted to sell my Metallica, I am sure I would lose a bit since there a re a ton of mods on it (Refinery Edition). My next game is AFMrLE, and I would assume that I would be hard pressed to sell it for what I am paying (especially after tax and shipping). I really don't care though. I don't imagine I would want to sell it, but if I did, I would guess it would be pretty easy to sell for $7000 in a few years. I plan to get way more use out of it than that though. Still, there will be probably quite a few of the 1000 people who buy it that will be devastated when they have to sell it for a penny less than they paid for it.

To me, the only ones that should feel bad when taking a loss are the ones that have an original right before a remake comes out. The people who spent $15k-$20k for MM right before MMr was released have a right to be upset (the ones that bought MM for $3500 and were counting on cashing in at over $20k, probably not so much). Iron Man was another one that people should have been upset over, especially when the distributors and others who had advance knowledge of the vault edition sold what they had for the highest possible price. AFM cooled off a few years ago due to speculation, so people who have bought those recently shouldn't be hit as hard. For the rest of the stuff though, it is probably best if pin buyers expect to lose a bit of money when they sell a pin. Not everyone can make money selling a pin. Eventually that need will drive prices high enough where no one will buy (the limit seems to be about what new pins cost for now)

A few years ago, I almost bought a white water for $5000. They are still worth that, but now that I can get a remake of AFM for $6500, it seems ridiculous to pay that for a 20+ year old game (I should point out that it seems equally ridiculous to me to pay $6500 for a remake AFM when you can get a fancier version for $8000).

Nothing wrong with putting "firm" behnd your price if it's priced right. It lets people know not to waste your time with lowball offers but if someone wants to offer just slightly less they'll contact you.

Then they ask "are you really firm?". That's when you say "bend over and I'll show you".

So the good news is that with increasing prices, more of these games are getting restored. Time invested to do so not quite worth it yet, but getting there. However, EMs still remain a labor of love and will do so for a long time to come.

Anyone who says there aren't deals to be found isn't looking hard enough. Yes, deals on fully restored, beautiful machines ARE hard to find. Deals on machines that need some TLC can be found and as long as you don't add the value of your time (which I don't because I love fixing pins) it all works out ok. For me I just make sure I'm not too picky on exact machine, tend to focus on the cheaper SS, and make sure when looking at pinside price I still have some room left if I ever need to sell. And I don't remain glued to craigslist and have still found plenty of deals. Employing that strategy sure I've been burned a few times, but overall if I ever liquidate I'll do ok even after having acquired most of my pins over the last 2 years.

I love this thread lol.

"you want 3800 for a restored nice BSD your on crack"
"DI LE or SW LE for 10k both totally worth the price right because it is new"

Flippin hilarious. Since older games are 20 yrs older dmd they should be 1500 right? While everyone dumps 8-12k to have a LCD that is cheaper to buy than a new dmd screen. The hobby has jumped the shark but not from sellers selling older games. No it is from everyone that sees value in 8-12k dollar games. You all brought this on yourselves.

So the answer is simple, back when BSD was a 1200-1500 game it's value was hard pressed to go over that price because you could buy a NIB LOTR,SM,TSPP,POTC etc for 3800 (and they were not stripped down version's). Could you imagine POTC today? "Oh you want the sinking pirate ship that's 3k more lol.

Do you guys realize how hard it is for guys that just got started in the hobby this year? Sheesh I'm so jealous of the guys that have owned these machines for the better part of the last 10 years. You guys got crazy pinball equity built up over the last few years from machines you bought for 1/10 of the price! While guys like me have to settle for $500 Motordomes

Yea, but get over it. I am in the same boat and don't care anymore. If I sat here everyday and thought about buying apple stock back in the day, well then...

Hey back in 1987 I paid $500 for Motordome ! So not everything has gone up

WORST .... PIN ..... EVER (well except for maybe SF2)

AFMrLE is $8k. I have played it, and I like it better than the original. An original in new condition would cost at least $8k. That makes the new one worth the price. there is a thread on here now where someone asked for help choosing between AFMrLE and Dialed In. It seems to be about even, with the DI camp touting the newer tech and deeper rules as the reason it is better. I would say that probably justifies the price of that one. It ignores a lot to say that it is the inclusion of an LCD that makes the price so high. I think you have to recognize that people just want the newer game, and the manufacturers are going to try to make sure that the newer games that people want are at the high price point.

20 year old games that are not a s desirable as the newer games should be cheaper though. The expensive games are just more desirable (except for BBB and Kingpin, those seem to just be crazy collector mentality). of the top 20 games listed on this site, all of them are either newer games, or games that are remade, or being talked about for being remade, or are popular because of the theme (AFM, IJ, STTNG). With the possible exception of STTNG, those are all in the $6k + range, and probably quite a bit higher than that if in like new condition. That is what makes the new prices seem reasonable.

I have been buying pins for about 10 years, but never got the equity you are talking about. I bought cheap games early on, and sold them as cheap games. As I could afford more, I bought better games. All of the pins I have bought have been sold within -$500 and + $200 of what I paid for them. Most a little less. I am feeling every bit of the pain of today's prices. $5k for GnR, $8k (with mods) for Metallica, and now $9k (with tax and shipping) for AFMrLE. The only reason I have these pins is because I bought a new car 11 years ago for $13,500, and I am still driving it. lol

There were only a handful of Bally Williams that commanded 8K plus ever, and they were considered the best games ever. So I see your argument with AFM and MM CC MB etc. But There was a time before new buyers saw value at 8K that great games were being made at 4k lotr sm etc. So is there over 4K in upgrades to justify new games today Hell NO (oh I forgot the 100$ LCD). So today I'm sorry but the SW pro is laughable at 6K. There are literally no toys or innovation on that machine at all. It has a great flowing design but so does The Getaway, and the getaway has the accelerator so does nascar

I have been a collector since 2005. and I bought the following from 2005-Today ( although in the last 6 years I have probably only bought 3-4 machines because pricing has gone up so much)

1.LOTR NIB 3600
2.POTC (owned 4 times) NIB 3600,HUO 2200,HUO 3200, HUO 3000
3.IJ Williams 1100
4.TAF (off ebay and I overpaid) 2700
5.SS (owned twice) 2600,2800
6.STTNG (owned 3 times) 2000,2600,2400
7.TOM 3100
8.SM (owned 3 times) NIB 3800,HUO 2000,HUO 3200
9.TSPP NIB 3800
10.Shrek NIB 3800
11.BSD (owned twice) 800,1200
12.White Water 1200
13.CV (owned twice) 2700,5400 HUO
14.TZ (owned 3 times) 2700,3000,2800
15.Dr Who 1200
16.Totan 1600
17.NGG HUO 1600
18.RFM 800
19.BK2K HUO 1200
20.BH 500
21.Popeye (owned twice) 900,950
22.MM (owned twice) 5000,6500
23.MB 5000
24.AFM (owned twice) 2000,3900
25.Bally Space Invaders 300
26.NF 500
27.Gottlieb HH 500
28.Funhouse 850
29.Monopoly (owned 3 times) 1000,HUO 1800,HUO 1600
30.Nascar (owned twice) 1800 HUO, 1000
31.Terminater 3 (owned twice) 1050,1500 HUO
32.RBION 950
33.Data East Star Wars 650
34.The Shadow 1000,1200
35.Firepower 250
36.Data East The Who 500
37.Data East ID4 600
38.Baby Pac Man 250
39.DM (owned twice) 850,900

And that's all I can rack my brain on right now, I know there were more and at great prices. I also missed a few I wish I had bought like a 1700 CFTBL, and a 2200 HUO LOTR,700 Diamond Plate Diner, 650 Hook, 600 LAH,500 T2 (needed Power Driver board),1800 HUO Elvis . I walked away from tons of games, I was a B/W, Stern Snob. Wanted 1990 or newer with very very few exceptions. It was fun to rethink all of these, Thanks Guys.

PS. I also had buddies of mine score massive
650 WH20
500 RS
800 SS
4500 CC
and so on, I used to get jealous of their deals! LMFAO so time for a DI CE 12500 and Batman 66 15000

PSS. I was really picky on condition, none of these were projects. Most were CQ,HUO, or needing mostly light shop jobs. I was known in my area as the high end collector

STTNG is not a $6000 game. I just sold mine for $4000. It's was a players but had very little playfield wear. People weren't beating down my door at that price. Some interest but a lot of people talk and then don't follow thru. That may give the impression that the game is worth more. I can't count the number of people that have told me they are definitely buying a game and then don't even show up to look at it.

Both The STTNG I owned I sold for 2500 each. Hell No its not a 6k game, Its not a 4k game either. But prices on older games will never come down until you can buy new for 4k never going to happen therefore older games prices are here to stay

Economics 101. Supply and demand.

If you decided to sell, what would you ask for it?

Man you guys got me feeling guilty.. almost sold a Tron LE NIB for $15,500 before I decided to keep it.

I go to a swap meet in the area every Sunday and i never fail to hear some variation of this:

Buyer: "How much do you want for that safety pin?"

Seller: "Fifty dollars."

Buyer: "Wow...why so much?"

Seller: "Well, on eBay, they're going for $200."

It seems at times that some people don't know that a ridiculous asking price isn't the actual value of the item. I've run into this few times trying to buy machines.

That makes total sense and seems to be what the price of that game is. But 3 years ago that game was cheaper because back then people were willing to pay less. Now they are willing to pay more. Simple as that.

For those who can afford 15k games my hats off to you. I am a capitalist and think it is bad ass that you can spend that kind of money on a pinball. Its your money and you earned it. I don't come on here and bitch about prices, I just don't buy! Congrats to all the new collectors Pinball is a Badass hobby and your new games are sweet.

Or people have more $? That shine business good in the old blue grass state...

Business is good. Ain't gonna lie. I can't remember the last time I bought store brand garbage.

You can start by selling that haunted house for $1,200. Maybe others will follow suit.

I think we have to remember that the price on old games is calibrated somewhat by the price on new games. Higher price on NIB -> higher price on old (but not as high as NIB). So yeah high prices as long as there are new pin manufacturers out there are here to stay.

gotta take inflation into count, too.
2003 LOTR NIB could be had about anywhere for $3850. Adjusted for inflation that's around $5100 today.
Now, lotr is PACKED compared to Stern Pros today, but that's a different argument.

Rule 1 in life...
You don't get what you Want or Need in life,
instead you get what you Negotiate.

A pinball machine is worth the intersection of what a buyer is willing to pay for it and the seller is willing to sell it for.

Aside from that... boo freakin hoo.

Because I can place a $700 pin for $1450 and sell it within a month

Then maybe it's not a $700 pin after all ...

Too bad you're not friends with me. I sold mine to a close friend for 1500eu a few months ago

How much did you finally sell your WWE for? If you got more than 3k for it, call it a win.

I usually compare to the pinside market set price at what I would like and if someone offered 100 or 200 less I usually take it if they are willing to pick up in person. Dealing with shipping sucks though.

Hell I lost 800 dollars on the hobbit in 6 months just because I was moving and needed it gone.

I've actually had more problems trading than anything else. Usually it's some deal where the difference via price guides/pinside is $xx, so that's usually where we start (and end) because usually the other party says "my game is worth more than that and I don't think your game is worth that" despite having no evidence to the contrary. It's happened a bunch of times to me, for some reason in a trade my game is always worth less than whatever history says and their game is worth more, when it seems like using guides/historical sales is the fairest way to do it.

Curious how you determine the "pinside market set price"? There seems to be huge variation in game prices

Look the game up in the archives. Should have a suggested value there.

Yup. I usually look at the range and determine the condition of the game. So if it's excellent condition, I will lean towards upper side. Also you can see what else is selling in the marketplace and what is sitting for a while to get a better idea.

Another factor is how quick you want it gone. Shave a few hundred off and price it below market and it will sell quick.

I have only traded once and it went well, but as a rule I don't bother trying to trade. People's interests rarely line up. I get trade requests when I post stuff for sale, but they are not for games I want or the person has an inflated idea about what their stuff is worth. Determining value is easier in an open market place.

I would just rather sell my thing and then buy the other thing.

I have never done a trade but have been entertaining two possibilities lately - it still just comes down to who wants what more. In both my trade situations, I have a desirable game which is not currently in production, and which were made in relatively low numbers. The trader wants to trade for a game which is still being manufactured, and which has questionable long term value. But sure I'd like to try them out.. Just have to find the right deal

I personally blame American Pickers and all those fake reality shows. Pretty sure there is an old thread on here about a guy that was asked to come on that show and give an estimated price for a pinball machine. The guy was literally asked to inflate the price. It's shows like these that give people the false perception that their junk is worth $$$. Also, some people don't get the amount of time and money goes into restoring a game. you see the well this one which is cherry sold for blank so I will sell it to you for 100 less than that.

I highly doubt television has any bearing on pinball prices. Ultimately price is set by demand and what a person is willing to spend to acquire that title in its present condition.

I thought the thread was about high asking prices outside of Pinside?