It's because they weigh so much that it costs extra to get friends to help move them.

Beer isn't free.

Not the case for POTC LE.

Your answer is right there All the JJPs are clunkers. Some people seem to enjoy each of them (well, minus Hobbit), but the appeal is always mixed.

Also, all their prices are way high compared to the other manufacturers. Some people will still buy at that price, but the second hand market seems to want them to come down to a more reasonable price point compared to what other games are available

They cost more, so even a similar percentage of depreciation will be “more,” and, they are never truly off the line. They’ve been cranking out WOZ for 7 years pretty steadily.

The one game they ran briefly and haven’t run again has appreciated significantly, POTC.

*this is assuming the OP’s premise is true; I don’t exact keep abreast on Jjp aftermarket pricing

1. Because their LE means nothing, there’s no incentive to gobble them up new or grab the first one you see used.

2. Themes and/or art/sound package aren’t grabbing people.

3. They’re so expensive, they can’t be flipped for more. They’re already selling at “in demand scalper price” when they’re not in demand (see 1 and 2).

All manufacturers experience a price drop on the used market. Some Stern games have dropped more than that on the used market.

A few years ago, NIB/HUO games appreciated, partly because there were a limited number of new games available. Now, there is an abundance of new games coming out throughout the year. People tend to cycle through them a lot faster these days, so there really isn't a shortage of either NIB or HUO games available. For prices to go up, availability needs to be low, and demand needs to be high. For most newer games, availability is high, and demand is moderate.

The only exceptions right now that I can think of are TBL and Aliens, mainly because availability is limited and they are desirable.

New games depreciate hard, with very few exceptions. And Greg is on point with the LE moniker being meaningless. I don't think JJP cares how much the games sell for on the secondary market. They may track them to gauge interest in running more.

I think it´s a terrible idea to sell a product with rarity as it´s merit.
If you have a good product, it will probebly hurt the company more over time, having rare versions of it, just look at afm(r)LE.

The incentive to buy something should never be it´s rare, but it´s good.
Over time 20years+ rarity might be a viable attribute on the other hand rare=less spare parts.

I'm not really sure JJP games depreciate that much more than Stern does. Most used JP's pros are going for $5000-$5300 and MSRP for $6100 now. I know most don't pay MSRP, but still. Percentage-wise, it isn't that different.

Neither should they, the true test of value is over time. The thread is in a sense not on point, since all their games is still available new, besides the one (pirates).

I´m 100% certain that most of their games will hold up a lot better over time, then say spike games for example.

Not sure if that's really true as many recent Stern LE's have depreciated close to $2k within a year or so. Around the metro Detroit area here in Michigan I could probably sell my Hobbit LE for $7k ($500 loss), WOZ ECLE for $7.5k (even for me), Dialed In LE for $7800 ($1200 loss), and Pirates LE for $12k ($2500 profit) so. I'm very happy with all of that. Would have lost more buying a Black Knight LE, Munsters LE, or say Guardians LE.

At the end of the day there's only so many buyers at the higher price points which I think affects resale value. Also, high LE prices with high LE counts hurts resale value as well. Batman LE's have held their value partially because only 125 were made. Had 500 or 1000 been made values would be lower.

If pinball has taught us anything over the last 10+ years I’ve been in the hobby, that’s not true. I couldn’t get parts for hardly anything 10 years ago... now people build games from scratch with the parts that are available.

It depends on the said part. A ramp for certain, but how will a spike board or an advanced mech fare?
I for one would feel more comfortable ten years down the line having a spike board for jurrasic park break, rather then a wwe?
(i wouldn´t be comfortable with any but thats besides the point.)

White water topper?

Not sure I agree with your premise. Are there data to support this?

Location, game condition, build dates, sellers going for a quick sale versus holding out etc, can all affect pricing. One game that goes for $7500 after sitting for months in one area may go quickly for $8k in another.

It’s pinside. Almost all data is completely made up!

From BOM to sales numbers to everything else...

JJP does seem to drop a little more than Stern. American and Spooky games really fall off as well.

Because, in my opinion, they just aren't that good of games (excluding POTC...which not shockingly is the one to not depreciate). Sure, they are impressive, loaded, pretty. But that wears off and you are left with gameplay that is B level at best...definitely not worth the pricetag to me. Plus higher price point games are almost always more difficult to sell than lower price games. The buyer pool is much more limited, especially second hand buyers, and they are going to spend the money on better games.

A ton of people will disagree with you and say that many Sterns are “B level” compared to any JJP title. 2 plastic ramps and orbits for $6k with little else? Who cares if it’s fast when that’s all that is the game. Pass.

I agree, there are more Stern B level games than JJP, but Stern does release several more games per year. They all can't be winners.

I love DI, still probably my favorite.

I'm sure there are people that think that. It is good we all have options to match our opinions! Not sure where I compared JJP to Stern in my post. Just stating my opinion as to why there is a large drop in JJP second hand prices. I'm glad they exist, and glad people love them, but, in my opinion, once you get past the flash and sizzle, they just aren't good enough games to justify their pricetag (again...POTC excluded).

Your math seems a bit off. For instance:

That means the value is quickly 92% of the original game (in most cases, with exceptions, blah blah blah).

A Stern game, say a Pro, will go from 5600 to 5000 very quickly, which is 89% of it's original value.

Therefore, JJP holds value better.

You might be a JJP Fanboy if the answer to this question is not obvious to you. Stern JP beats the living hell out of Wonka. It's not even close. Better titles hold their value better. Always have.

Says one of Pinsides top Stern fanboys!

how much are NIB stern pro going for these days? every distributor has a set price they have to follow right?

You can find them for less than $5,600, but that's what they'll advertise, just talk to a few distributors.

I do love it when the "data guys" use statistical charts.

Don't you mean that $5K is the high end for a HUO Stern Pro? JP2 and Deadpool Pro's seem to top out around $5K on the used market. I sold my Maiden Pro HUO a few months back for $4700 with a shaker. I do think that the higher priced games depreciate at a slightly higher rate than Stern Pro's because there is more room to fall, but most games seem to take at least a 15% drop after opening the box.

What time frame ?

In the last 7 or 8 years. JJP has made 5 new games, not counting a few variations on WOZ or Hobbit.

How many other manufacturers new games came out in that time frame ?

Every one wants the new shiny.

So almost every game from any manufacturer is going to lose value when a new one comes out.

Every time a new title shows up, recent other games come up for sale on Pinside. We see it every time.

LTG : )

Pinball is hard!! All of this math hurts my brain. Can't wait for Bernie to give me pinballs for free. Then I wont have to worry about depreciation Yay!!! Although I will probably be pissed that only pros will be free. I want my free LE's!

In trying to buy I would say I don't see it the same as you. Maybe it is simply game specific, but I've been in the market over a year for a DI and honestly the price on that has held steady even given the onslaught of new games coming out.

I think to others points though the primary reasons are multiple...2 of which are, they keep cranking out said games, and they don't have as large a following of people who like their games as Stern does. A third would be as others have said, they are already at the top end of the market, it only makes sense they would depreciate more on the short side. They still find a bottom though and stay there for the most part.

For whatever reason JJP games have eluded me because they haven't dropped enough on the HUO market. The two I've been most interested in were WOZ and JPOTC. At one point in time I had a WOZ on pre-order but ended up canceling because I bought a house in the time-frame I was waiting and needed the cash. I figured since they were $6500 initially that I would one day be able to pickup another one in the high $5K range which never happened. I've always liked JPOTC but didn't want to buy NIB and take the depreciation hit and hoped to find one HUO for less but we all know what happened there.

Also might be their price is not as fixed as Stern or CGC. I seem to recall Black Friday or friend of the distributer price more common on JJP than on Stern which is much tighter on what the dealer can sell.

If everyone is paying the same on Stern and not on JJP maybe the lower prices will catch on to all JJP games.

This surprises me. I thought there was zero wiggle room on JJP titles. I know from experience that a NIB Stern can be all over the place on actual purchase price (not advertised price).

I was under the same impression and am curious about this. I understand there are discounts on show models, but NIB?

It doesn't seem that high. $5600 was where I was getting quotes.

As for 5k being low on a used one, no it isn't. Look through the marketplace. They will sell for around that. The higher priced current games seem to sit, but then they hit the sweet spot of 5k and they switch to sale pending.

Of course, I'm only using data I keep seeing. You might be seeing different where you are.

Same reason a $400,000 house appreciates more than a $250,000 house. Percentages are about the same for most games regardless of company. Buy a new car for $50k, you’ll lose more than someone who bought the $30k car. Simple economics and math. Occasionally an outlier like potc or AC/DC a few years back happen, but again it’s economics supply and demand.

It is what it is & it’s the reason we still have new pinball. The marketing hype of “get it now or pay the scalpers” works.

This is a niche, expensive product. People are more motivated if there’s some sense of “special” to a game. I like some JJP games, but I’ve never been motivated to buy a new one...because I could just get one whenever down the road for less. Rick & Morty on the other hand...I was motivated to buy it right away.

As for the topic - appreciation or depreciation. Appreciation only happens with short supply & high demand. No JJP has that. They’re all “unlimited” for all intents and purposes. A 1500 unit LE isn’t limited...even less so when there are multiple other editions & variant re-runs like WOZ Ruby Red, Yellow Brick Road.

Polynomials, or it didn’t happen

Not near as hard as paper towel math!

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Well, I have owned around 70 games but zero JJP.

Why?

Combination of theme and gameplay - they just don't have that one more game aspect that Sterns have.

And their LE/CE/SUPERDUPERLE just means nothing.

Have you played Wonka?? Because that game certainly gives me the "just one more"...

I’ve walked away from my fair share of sterns to thinking they were boring or simply no good. I like the jjp themes and games, and I like many stern themes and games. Doesn’t mean any are more or less susceptible to depreciation. Each game has its own market. Again, supply and demand. A zillion Metallica games out at a very reasonable price nowadays, and it’s a great theme and game, but due to a zillion of them being made, prices are lower on it.

I had my HUO DI LE listed for awhile at $7300 with only tire kickers. Eventually sold it for $7K. And this was only about 8 weeks ago.

I might've thought the same thing until I listed it.

I honestly think that the Dialed In theme confuses those that haven't played it. I knew nothing of the disaster concept until I played it.