Wizard of Oz
Jersey Jack, 2013You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider amused_to_death.
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Quoted from spinal:Just had a thought that no monkey in YBR probably means no monkey in any other future releases of WOZ moving forward.
Incorrect. JJ is planning to make more Ruby Reds, with monkeys, later this year. They will be in the new cabinets, with the updated hardware, etc.
knowing this is making it hard for me to choose. I like the backglass, art blades, glitter, and apron on YBR, but I really don’t want to give up the monkey.
Jack needs to do a YBR+ version! 
Quoted from spinal:How do you know that Ruby Red’s will have the monkey?
I heard it directly from Jack.
Quoted from Pinballomatic:Different models have different features is basically the answer, however unsatisfying that may be.
Correct. And hence my dilemma. 
Quoted from spinal:Do you personally feel it’s OK for a company to remove a mech for reliability reasons from one version and include it in other versions that they sell?
It may not be entirely logical, but it’s the most logical. A Ruby Red should be a Ruby Red.
I still think YBR should have been treated as if it were a CE. I’d have different art on the cabinet and instead of removing the monkey, I’d be plussing the game with flapping wings, LEDs in the trees, etc.
Quoted from spinal:JJP can’t [have] it both ways
Yes, yes they can.
I just read Hollywood is working on a horror film based in Oz. Maybe I should hold out for a JJ Wicked Witch of the West Collector’s Edition featuring the witch, monkey, and crystal ball on the cabinet sides, black armor, and black, green, or winged monkey blue wireforms. Oh, and a mostly working monkey mech. 
Quoted from adol75:What if they simply couldn’t get monkeys delivered on time, had an empty production line and needed to sell machines quickly to keep the business going.
As good of a guess as anyone's at this point.
Quoted from PanzerFreak:The decision to remove the mech doesn't make any sense unless it was a cost reason.
I think they've got any associated costs under control with the $2K price increase!
Quoted from flynnibus:It makes no sense to remove it from YBR, but keep it in a later RR run that is getting engineering updates as well. Re-running RR and saying so.. only stands to stall YBR sales which are priced way higher.
I told Jack I was interested in YBR, that I wanted the new cabinet and hardware upgrades, but that I couldn't quite pull the trigger because of the missing monkey and, without having seen it in person, unsure about whether it was going to end up looking like a flaming banana (as per some of the comments here on Pinside). That's when he told me that they'd be doing another run of Ruby Reds, with the new hardware, and the monkey, and that I could wait for one of those. He did not mention a specific timeframe, just that it would be sometime later this year. I asked if this was something he wanted me to stay quiet about, but he gave me no indication that I needed to keep anything a secret. I'd have to watch the TPF reveal again, but Jack may have mentioned more Ruby Reds during that as well. I do agree that this info could stall YBR sales. In my case, I'm at least waiting to see how it goes with Wonka before making a final decision on YBR vs RR.
Quoted from fosaisu:But does removing the monkey actually affect game play at all?.
This is something I asked Jack about, too. I was told they were going to try to get some gameplay video out shortly. In truth, I'm surprised that no one at TPF saw fit to film anything other than a few flyovers of the glitter. Everyone on here is up in arms about the monkey, yet no one filmed anything having to do with the little guy?! LOL!
Quoted from spinal:Since I think this is the first time in the history of pinball (that I know of) that a company selectively pulling out and later putting back in a mech over stretches of time
But that's not what they're doing. I know you see it that way, but I don't. Ruby Red has always had the monkey. They'd have to produce a number of Ruby Reds without the monkey and then put it back in to line up with your thinking. YBR and RR are two different products. One has glitter, the other has a monkey. Choose your poison. Or choose nothing. End of argument.
Quoted from spinal:The point is, and you're missing it again
I’m not missing your point. I just don’t agree with it.
Jack has not actually said why the monkey is missing in YBR, by the way. He’s made jokes about the monkey being a pain in his side, but he has not expressly stated anything about it being a maintenance concern. I got the same joke from him, nothing new.
Quoted from flynnibus:If they really are to build more RR... I'd expect it to be like 10.5 or 11k. They can't undercut their even limited YBR run with a full featured version for 2k less that simply doesn't have the flecked PF, apron, and different color.
Agreed. I didn’t ask if the price would be going up; I assumed it would be.
Quoted from spinal:An important post that seems like the best explanation so far about why JJP removed the monkey from YBR:
Quoted from PanzerFreak:At TPF Jack didn't say that RR WOZ's would be made again but rather said "never say never" which was what he said with Pirates as well.
Except that Jack already told me they’d be making more Ruby Reds, with the monkey, and in the new cabinets.
More Ruby Reds have since been confirmed by JJ on their Instagram feed:
A quick and dirty transcript of the relevant parts...
34:17
Q. [Inaudible]
Jack: The winged monkey is in it in animation. So the mechanical monkey…
Q. The internet wants to know if the winged monkey is in it.
Jack: The wing-ed monkey. I’m glad that you said it the right way. Nice hat, Charlie. The winged monkey is in there in the animation. So when you see the screen fly down, ah, you know, the monkeys come down and pick up the ball, ah, what happens is that you get an extra ball that gets shot up to the upper playfield, and the magnet is still there, so it holds the ball, so really all the game features are true to the rules. Mechanically, that one mechanism is not there. Which a lot of people might be happy about.
37:52
Q. [Inaudible]
Jack: Okay, are we out of the Ruby Red version, and the answer is yes. Um, we may be able to build some of those in the future, too. And I can tell you, if we do build them, ah, we’ll let you know first.
47:43
Q. Can you tell us, Butch or Jack, what’s different with the service platform now? Is this game easier to service than earlier games?
Butch: Well, for one thing, it’s got the new lighting system in it, that’s a big deal, so you’re not gonna have boards going out, that’s very frustrating. That monkey mech, we do get calls on that. You know, with it not being in there, that noise that it makes, the vibration, and the reverberation inside the cabinet, that’s gonna not be… it’ll all be in animation now, so it’s, you know, quiet and nice music and things like that. Also, it’s been a difficult mech to get lined up just right, every once in a while, so, you know, you take that out of the game, so it makes it a little more reliable. We’ve got one less of the doors on the upper playfield. The castle playfield now has two motors rather than three, so… Sometimes those little screws come undone and your doors don’t open, but your motor’s turning, trying to open it, so there’s one… 33 percent less chance of that happening now.
Eric: The castle doors have also been redesigned completely. The switches that were on them were an actively closed switch that was very difficult to adjust. Now they are opto-based switches, so they’re much more reliable. They’re adjustable from the top of the playfield, instead of having to remove the upper playfield. Ah, a lot easier to adjust there. Also, the electronics have been moved into the backbox, so that there are now two fewer interconnects between everything on the playfield and the chassis and the I/O board that controls them, so a lot fewer broken wires or pushed out pins, etc. So, it should be a lot more easy to service, and a lot fewer just basic pinball issues with the game.
Butch: Yeah, those metal boxes, every game with them, the metal box in the bottom, you have connectors going into the back of the metal box, you have connectors coming out of the back of the box, so you have all these extra connection points, that’s what Eric’s talking about. And those castle doors now have a flag bracket on the top of them, so when they open, when the door opens, it now breaks a U-shaped opto. It makes the switch, rather than microswitches and the problems that they bring to the table. Yeah, everything being behind… you know, with the new monitor, the swing out monitor, and all those different things that come with that cabinet design… very easy to get to now… you can bring your monitor out on a swivel, and ah, pivot it off to the side… very easy to get to a lot of the main electronics in the backbox, so…
50:31
Q: Is it a union thing? What is the pinball industry’s current obsession with getting rid of monkeys?
Jack: I don’t know. I have to think about that one for a minute.
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