(Topic ID: 239460)

Why did JJP remove the monkey on WOZ YBR?


By spinal

8 months ago



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There are 148 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 3.
#1 8 months ago

Serious question. Other threads are covering price increase, color and delivery etc so no need to bring these gripes up here.

After their pirates disc and box mech removal debacle, JJP thought it a good idea to remove the monkey mech from WOZ YBR edition.

Was it save money? Why save just a bit if there is such a large increase in price? Was the mech really that expensive?

Was the monkey mech broken? Mine (RR) has always worked fine. If flawed, why not fix after 8 years?

Anyway, I am a JJP fan so not trying to trash for no reason. Just want to know WHY they removed the monkey mech. Serious question.

Your thoughts?

#2 8 months ago

I know the doors up top were converted to 1 door for reliability. This might have been a reliability issue, but I've never had a problem with the mech. They also changed the cabinet that WOZ was built in to their current cabinets they've had for Dialed In and Pirates. That might have played a factor into it. Because they moved the guts from the bottom of the cab to the backbox.

#3 8 months ago

I spoke with Joe about why it was removed. It seems like the best answer is to provide better reliabilty in the game as a whole. While your personal game may not have had an issue, the likelyhood of it having an issue is likely very high. I would guess that almost all location games have developed issues with high play volume. Those issues most commonly being magnetization of the balls. That is not the type of reliabilty that a company wants to manage. The type of people that spend 11-13k on a game like this don’t expect low reliabilty in their products. I do think that it was a bit of a cross up though as you wouldn’t expect a 11.5k version to be on location and have high play volume while a HUO shouldn’t have an issue with a monkey mech. That is personally why I will buy a ECLE or RR at some point. I would have bought the YBR had the monkey been there, as that was the one toy I had talked about with family as being amazing in bringing the theme of the movie to life.

The RADCals, glitter play field, new translite, and apron add in the other pricing, small production run. 6500$ is not a number anyone should reference from the ECLE.you should mark it from the RR pricing model only. That’s a fair comparison. $6500 is effectively the Kickstarter price, so stop trolling the boards. I think the worst statement that was made in the reveal was leaving the series open from 200 to 500. To collectors that like rarity that is a curse. It would have been better to have another minor print run in another color later on than have this be open ended.

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#4 8 months ago

I’d rather have a monkey that MIGHT need some fixing than no monkey at all. Especially at $11.5k. It’s a pinball machine. I expect to have to fix things. Worst case you disable the monkey. At least give customers the choice.

#5 8 months ago
Quoted from Furio:

I spoke with Joe about why it was removed. It seems like the best answer is to provide better reliabilty in the game as a whole. While your personal game may not have had an issue, the likelyhood of it having an issue is likely very high. I would guess that almost all location games have developed issues with high play volume. Those issues most commonly being magnetization of the balls. That is not the type of reliabilty that a company wants to manage. The type of people that spend 11-13k on a game like this don’t expect low reliabilty in their products. I do think that it was a bit of a cross up though as you wouldn’t expect a 11.5k version to be on location and have high play volume while a HUO shouldn’t have an issue with a monkey mech. That is personally why I will buy a ECLE or RR at some point. I would have bought the YBR had the monkey been there, as that was the one toy I had talked about with family as being amazing in bringing the theme of the movie to life.
The RADCals, glitter play field, new translite, and apron add in the other pricing, small production run. 6500$ is not a number anyone should reference from the ECLE.you should mark it from the RR pricing model only. That’s a fair comparison. $6500 is effectively the Kickstarter price, so stop trolling the boards. I think the worst statement that was made in the reveal was leaving the series open from 200 to 500. To collectors that like rarity that is a curse. It would have been better to have another minor print run in another color later on than have this be open ended.

Plenty of games have magnets though, Tom, TAF, IM etc. I can't see magnetization being a huge issue.

#6 8 months ago
Quoted from f3honda4me:

At least give customers the choice.

They did. Buy a WOZ that has it, or one that doesn't.

I don't know why it was removed. My experience in tech support is that non mechanically inclined people mucked up the limit switches if they tried to adjust them. To a lesser extent, removing old grease and putting on new on the threaded rod, and the motor coupling, later vinyl tubing, left a lot to be desired.

LTG : )

#7 8 months ago
Quoted from LTG:

They did. Buy a WOZ that has it, or one that doesn't.

If JJP only has one version they are making and it’s YBR, then customers don’t have a choice unless they buy used. By luck, automated had a few left NIB of previous versions.

#8 8 months ago

Its really not a huge part of the game.... its cool/neat at first but really slowed the game down . I actually don't think its that huge of deal and wld own a game without it . However the new stuff sldnt of increased the price especially without that feature. I also believe that bc of the new cab /head design the huge mech wld not fit/work properly bc of lack of room and all the wire harnesses coming down into the cab from the head. Anyway you look at it more woz pins in the world is not a bad thing.

#9 8 months ago
Quoted from f3honda4me:

If JJP only has one version they are making and it’s YBR, then customers don’t have a choice unless they buy used. By luck, automated had a few left NIB of previous versions.

They are making RR Woz this year too.

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#10 8 months ago

Monkeys have been banned from pinball forever, didn't you hear? They are very offensive little creatures and they are always up to no good.

#11 8 months ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

Monkeys have been banned from pinball forever, didn't you hear? They are very offensive little creatures and they are always up to no good.

yep, MonkeyGate...see Oktoberfest

#12 8 months ago
Quoted from Zavadoza:

They are making RR Woz this year too.

Ah that’s news to me. Jack said at TPF they didn’t have plans to do that but they might.

#13 8 months ago

Family Guy has been saying it for years ....."evil monkey". Why would we want "evil" in our games. Thanks goodness the "evil" is being purged from all games. Now, maybe, just maybe, we can add some freakin pink ponies or more gawd damn rainbows into our games.

Adios Evil Monkey!!! Adios.

QSS

#14 8 months ago
Quoted from Furio:

Those issues most commonly being magnetization of the balls. That is not the type of reliabilty that a company wants to manage. The type of people that spend 11-13k on a game like this don’t expect low reliabilty in their products. I do think that it was a bit of a cross up though as you wouldn’t expect a 11.5k version to be on location and have high play volume while a HUO shouldn’t have an issue with a monkey mech.

I agree. It makes absolutely no sense to me that they would remove a mech prone to issues on route on a pin that is clearly marketed only for low-play, high end buyers at $11,500.

Does anyone have any insight into this decision?

#15 8 months ago

I guess maybe JJP should start making "Pro" versions with less mechs for operators. If they decide to do this however, I would suggest pricing the Pro version LESS than the full featured versions. They seemed to take the opposite approach with YBR.

#16 8 months ago

Maybe Stern Owns the Patten after they used it on KISS

#17 8 months ago

I know a lot of people who had problems with that mech... so I would assume to avoid more problems. That is just a guess.

#18 8 months ago
Quoted from MRG:

Maybe Stern Owns the Patten after they used it on KISS

Doubtful. I don't think the timeline matches up for that to be true.

#19 8 months ago

I spoke to the monkey. He wouldn't give specifics, but he said it was mainly a licensing issue. Apparently, the rights to the monkeys in WOZ are owned by a different company and represented by a very protective monkey union. In the end, I don't blame JJP for not wanting to deal with the headache and/or banana peels.

#20 8 months ago
Quoted from Pinwizkid:

I spoke to the monkey. He wouldn't give specifics, but he said it was mainly a licensing issue. Apparently, the rights to the monkeys in WOZ are owned by a different company and represented by a very protective monkey union. In the end, I don't blame JJP for not wanting to deal with the headache and/or banana peels.

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#21 8 months ago
Quoted from MRG:

Maybe Stern Owns the Patten after they used it on KISS

Similar mechs were used in banzi run and bsd .

#22 8 months ago
Quoted from QuickSilverShelb:

Now, maybe, just maybe, we can add some freakin pink ponies or more gawd damn rainbows into our games.

Just my opinion, but I think there are already enough pink ponies and rainbows in WOZ.

#23 8 months ago

#24 8 months ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

Monkeys have been banned from pinball forever, didn't you hear? They are very offensive little creatures and they are always up to no good.

And they spread disease

#25 8 months ago
Quoted from RandomGuyOffCL:

And they spread disease

Absolutely! There goes Curious George, my dream theme!

#26 8 months ago

Gotta save the monkeys for the upcoming Godzilla Vs. Kong movie based pin(skull island 2)...

220px-Kong_Skull_Island_creature_design (resized).jpg

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#27 8 months ago

$ the $ real $ reason $ behind $ its $ removal $ will $ never $ be $ known.

What we do know, is that folks dropping $$11.5K$$ on a yellow colored WOZ won't experience a really cool ball lock mech.

#28 8 months ago
Quoted from 27dnast:

$ the $ real $ reason $ behind $ its $ removal $ will $ never $ be $ known.
What we do know, is that folks dropping $$11.5K$$ on a yellow colored WOZ won't experience a really cool ball lock mech.

Hard to believe ... but yes, money seems to be the answer

#29 8 months ago

How about JJP offering the Monkey Mod.

Problem solved for folks that like funky flippers.

#30 8 months ago
Quoted from Furio:

games have developed issues with high play volume. Those issues most commonly being magnetization of the balls.

What does this say for the future of DI

#31 8 months ago

How does the ball now get to the upper playfield?

#33 8 months ago
Quoted from JY64:

What does this say for the future of DI

Same as the future of Munsters, GotG, and many other games?

#34 8 months ago

If you pay a Rolls-Royce price you naturally and understandably expect every gadget and its wife to be present. Even though YBR is great and loaded in many ways, the absent monkey makes it seem a lesser machine and this is a PR disaster IMO. Like POTC ringgate.

#35 8 months ago
Quoted from 27dnast:

$ the $ real $ reason $ behind $ its $ removal $ will $ never $ be $ known.
What we do know, is that folks dropping $$11.5K$$ on a yellow colored WOZ won't experience a really cool ball lock mech.

Right, because when you are chasing a $11.5k price point, you simply don’t have the budgetary leeway to re-engineer a really cool mech that was once included in the $7.5k package!

Quoted from Pinballs:

If you pay a Rolls-Royce price you naturally and understandably expect every gadget and its wife to be present. Even though YBR is great and loaded in many ways, the absent monkey makes it seem a lesser machine and this is a PR disaster IMO. Like POTC ringgate.

I am truly baffled that no one at JJP seems to understand this! Your RR example is accurate, and should be obvious to just about anyone. What JJP has done is analogous to RR removing a few of the most posh of the luxe accoutrements while increasing the price, giving the buyer a mere Mercedes/Jaguar experience but charging ultra-exotic prices for the privilege!

#36 8 months ago

Even more baffling is that they came up with the YBR monkey removal idea and implemented it AFTER the pirates disc and trunk mech removal PR disaster.

It really is spectacular.

It’s like they think we love mechs being removed. Perhaps, as part of their upcoming WW marketing campaingn, they’ll release a list of removed mechs.

#37 8 months ago

My buddy and I were laughing at their YBR banner in front of the machine at TPF. One of the bullet points was "Updated playfield mechanics!". We wondered if that was a very generous spin on monkey removal.

#38 8 months ago

It's a good lesson in marketing and communication actually. They should have announced prior to the pseudo reveal that the YBR wouldn't have a monkey, explain why they made that decision (and there was clearly tons of valid explanations, money, parts, reliability...) instead of letting people fantasize on the ultimate limited edition of a fantastic machine.

There can only be disappointment once the reality hits.

#39 8 months ago

What bothers me is that if not for buffalo pinball asking if the monkey was there during the QA, they weren’t saying anything about it being missing! It was never mentioned during the whole presentation!

#40 8 months ago
Quoted from adol75:

It's a good lesson in marketing and communication actually. They should have announced prior to the pseudo reveal that the YBR wouldn't have a monkey, explain why they made that decision (and there was clearly tons of valid explanations, money, parts, reliability...) instead of letting people fantasize on the ultimate limited edition of a fantastic machine.
There can only be disappointment once the reality hits.

This would have helped for sure. But there is no way to spin the removal of a mech that is part of the theme integration that everyone has seen and played for 8 years. It’s not a prototype disk that didn’t work - it’s a mech we’ve seen working for 8 years. And people went nuts about pirates disk we never played. Here they took away something we already had.

Another point, WOZ to me is the ‘no compromizes’ pin, I mean the wicked witch of the East’s feet pop out of the spinning house. Jack built a business on this principle and this is what JJP is known for. How does this guiding principle sit next to their flagship release having mechs removed instead of fixing them? It’s not Rudy from Funhouse either so are they saying in 8 years the monkey is unfixable? Like the pirates trunk they couldn’t open and close?

JJP should let us know exactly what are they trying to say with YBR.

#41 8 months ago

Thanks god I got my years ago for $6500 with everything included including butter graphics. Still playing strong 6 years later!!! And I have a monkey.

#42 8 months ago
Quoted from f3honda4me:

What bothers me is that if not for buffalo pinball asking if the monkey was there during the QA, they weren’t saying anything about it being missing! It was never mentioned during the whole presentation!

Right there...

#43 8 months ago
Quoted from adol75:

It's a good lesson in marketing and communication actually. They should have announced prior to the pseudo reveal that the YBR wouldn't have a monkey, explain why they made that decision (and there was clearly tons of valid explanations, money, parts, reliability...) instead of letting people fantasize on the ultimate limited edition of a fantastic machine.
There can only be disappointment once the reality hits.

Great point. Transparency is a good think for any business.

#44 8 months ago

Never had problems w the monkey except for having to screw around w hall sensor...

After a long wait, have one of gouveia's monkeys coming....very, very excited. WOZECLE delivered on many promises after the board issues and a couple of other things were sorted, JJP support is second to none. This is why it's very puzzling (to me) as to why they took it out of their most expensive version.

A great feature on a great machine (monkeys carrying Dorothy away on the screen w monkey mech, btw, so don't see the value there).

#45 8 months ago
Quoted from calprog:

Thanks god I got my years ago for $6500 with everything included including butter graphics. Still playing strong 6 years later!!! And I have a monkey.

And I remember when JJP announced they would be selling the pinball machine for $6500 and everyone thought that was an insanely high price. Now it’s a bargain!

#46 8 months ago

Just had a thought that no monkey in YBR probably means no monkey in any other future releases of WOZ moving forward.

#47 8 months ago
Quoted from jeffgoldstein2:

And I remember when JJP announced they would be selling the pinball machine for $6500 and everyone thought that was an insanely high price. Now it’s a bargain!

It was insanely high back then. Now people justify how a lesser YBR is somehow acceptable at $11,500

If it didn't take 4 years to start getting them out the door they might have made $$ on Woz.

#48 8 months ago

Why?

"To get to the other side..."

#49 8 months ago

It probably molested the witch or offended some one

#50 8 months ago
Quoted from spinal:

Just had a thought that no monkey in YBR probably means no monkey in any other future releases of WOZ moving forward.

Incorrect. JJ is planning to make more Ruby Reds, with monkeys, later this year. They will be in the new cabinets, with the updated hardware, etc.

knowing this is making it hard for me to choose. I like the backglass, art blades, glitter, and apron on YBR, but I really don’t want to give up the monkey.

Jack needs to do a YBR+ version!

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