Planned obsolescence

The batteries were cheap, and the games weren't meant to be on location for more than a few years anyway.

Operators usually destroyed their amusement games once they were 3-5 years old. There were some exceptions; Stunt Cycle, Sprint and Sprint 2 video games were kept for almost ten years. then they were put in the shitcan. They had zero value.

Capcom did it in the 90's so less than 30 years. Frankly, there just wasn't a large need to as games are disposable even if we collectors do not see them that way.

Yea but with lithium's now there back on! Notice all the nos holders being scooped up and new MPU's with them on! It's been proven that while a remote holder is great for direct leakage, when a battery leaks the vapor goes everywhere throughout the back box corroding everything metal.

I've wondered that, too. My Shadow has the batteries elevated a bit on a different board. The Rottendog mpu I got for my Congo had a remote pack already built in. Wired are short so batteries still fairly close to board but not right on it. It doesn't seem that complicated or much more expensive to do so. I know nobody expected these games to be run for decades but still. Batteries can leak anytime. It had to be a big headache even back then.

We're looking at two different issues here if we are talking about WPC and later machines:
1 -- memory that needs to be either battery powered for backup or NV RAM
2 -- WPC components with built in clock in the ASIC.

#1 is easy. #2 is difficult without redesigning the software and ASIC.

I'll tell you what on my Paragon MPU-35 I soldiered in a capacitor in place of the battery and that worked great just had to play it at least once a month(not a problemo lol), and like the Rottendog WPC-89 MPU I just picked up going for the nvram, I think batteries may be a thing of the past?

That is why owners put remote holders in plastic ziplock bags, and with planning seal against vapor.

Can't the corrosion still just easily creep through the wires? I guess it takes a LITTLE time, but still.

SAM and Spike use batteries on the CPU board. While not standard alkaline AA batteries, the coin cells are on the board.

If you remember to change batteries once a year, I assume there's a very, very small chance of any leakage. Am I wrong?

Why risk it?

Isn't that kinda like saying, why risk cavities instead of just replacing tour teeth with artificials though? You'd still need regular care to prevent gum disease.

Practically everything needs routine care and maintenance.

That's a bit of a false equivalency arguement.

The point was that batteries leak, they are well known to leak, and have destroyed countless boards by leaking.

There are inexpensive alternatives (NVRAM), which don't leak and will never leak, and will likely last for the lifetime of the pin. You will never have to worry about batteries ever again.

Again, why risk a leaking battery? It doesn't make sense to me to install a known flawed product that is well documented for causing damage, instead of using something you only have to install once and never have to worry about again.

False equivalency relies on contrast rather than comparison.

Perhaps, but considering that it's 2017 and the entire electronics systems in pinball machines are antiquated, don't you think it's a bit OCD to be like, "hey this thing still uses a battery?"

It's true that various components are obsolete, but they don't cause damage to a game. Alkaline and NiCad batteries do. Lithium coin cell batteries are safer to use, but they still leak eventually. I've seen more than a few Gottlieb System 3 MPUs with leaking coin cell batteries.

More important in the era of AA batteries on pinball,
like it was hard to just wire it to a batter pack off of the board to begin with!?

And in contrast, your teeth aren't going to explode and ruin your mouth. Sure, they can get bad if you don't brush them but are easily maintained and can be checked on. Batteries can not be "maintained", there is no way to assure they don't leak. You maintain them by replacing them when they die to assure your game keeps getting a charge, but only all the while hoping they don't leak (which is an entirely different issue). There is no upkeep on a specific set of batteries. They leak when they want and can be very unpredictable.

Even if you didn't brush your teeth it would take a long time for them to fall out, which is basically equivalent to the factory original solder-on batteries that take 20-30 years to leak anyways rather than the normal AA-batteries used in some machines. They leaked, but it took forever.

Would you guys recommend a 1 farad memory capacitor for a Bally MPU-35 game going on route? It will be on for around 9 hours daily so charge isn't an issue (hopefully wouldn't overcharge with that amount or anything like that) but I need to be sure my coinage settings are maintained and that voltage to the chip is not lost or else it will default to a lower coinage value. It is almost impossible that the game will be off for longer than a span of a few days (accounting for the event of a major snowstorm or something, but even still unlikely) unless it is shut off waiting for maintenance in which case I would set the values back if they were lost anyways I would assume.

I'm thinking between this and a remote CR3023 battery with a blocking diode in-line. (if it's mounted on the board I won't be drilling a hole in them)

Just picked up the game two or three days ago, it still has the original battery in it which hasn't leaked which will be clipped out VERY shortly. I know how urgent that is.

My teeth exploded once. It's a real thing.

So they can't be maintained, but you maintain them by replacing them?

That's still contrasting the association, goofball lol

I'd just replace them, and spend the OCD time worrying about stuff that's actually within my control lol

PC's moved to them years ago. older systems used the leaking ones.

Best solution I've found so far: Get them off the board (obviously) then remote them to the front area near the coin box. Use either a zip-lock bag to confine the fumes or if you're really fussy go to either a Bass Pro Shop or Cabela's and pick up a small waterproof see thru box that can be secured to the inside area, usually near the tilt bob. Enclose the remote in there-it looks clean, it will not release fumes and you're done!

But does that run the clock when the game is off?

I don't think they do, that's why I do the remote battery thing instead.

No. That really only affects a small handful of WPC games that have a midnight madness mode.

http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=MPU_Battery_Replacement_Options#Games_Affected_By_a_Real-Time_Clock

A recent proposed workaround (without resorting to batteries) was to hook up a power adapter to the service outlet, connect it to the MPU, and use that to run the clock.

If you really have to resort to batteries, though...use lithium, not alkaline.

"False equivalence is a common result when an anecdotal similarity is pointed out as equal, but the claim of equivalence doesn't bear because the similarity is based on oversimplification or ignorance of additional factors."

So, yes it is.

Until you repair alkaline damage or pay $350 for a new board, saying batteries on a mpu is a bad idea is not OCD. I remove every battery holder off the board and put it in a remote one. It costs me around 2 bucks and the board is never at risk for alkaline damage. One day my cheap ass will get NV ram installed.

Why are the same pinball lamps from the 30s being used today?

how much chance is there that fumes from a remote battery pack hurt the boards?

i have a ziplockbag over my remote battery but its still a little hole round the cable

have any of you guys had any problems?

No, it's not.

The corroison will likely eat right through a plastic bag. I think it would add you a bit of time tho. Fumes from batteries most certainly can cause corrosion far from the battery itself. Can fester in a hidden place like under an IC socket. If you want to use remote batteries, just get the cable long enough it is away from boards. A remote battery holder with a 3" cable mounted near other PCBs is still asking for trouble.

Only a dozen out of the 6000 pinball titles need an actual battery pack.

Those that do, run a wire out the bottom of the cab vent and Velcro the battery pack to the back or underside.

Change your batteries every Jan 1st, and use them for household items that need almost no power, like remote controls.

Not really any guarantee, the one year I changed them as I had always done on my birthday as part of getting ready for party rutine and that year I had purchased a big pack of Energizer with that press to check feature. Well about 3months later when I went in backbox to change a lamp or something I noticed this freshly ruptured battery. So no real damage done apart from the holder but since then been changing to NV. And a couple I still have with batteries I put in those lithium cells.

Last time I posted this I got flamed, but I use Lithium AA's. They have never leaked for me, or anyone else I know that uses them. And you will never need to change them as the draw from a pinball machine will see them last for 25+ years.

Flame away...

I've changed the games that I can to NVRAM. To me, it's worth the cost to switch to NVRAM. I don't want to gamble the cost of a board on a battery going bad. Over time, I'll recoup the cost by not buying batteries which I view as an extra benefit.

They leak sometimes in a month:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/sending-battery-damaged-mpu-back-to-energizer

How much are boards anyways?

$150-$450, depending on the board and whether if it's a repair original or an after-market reproduction.

I am not sure why people believe that batteries were never removed from MPUs until the last few years, the post title is again misleading.
I realize the initial intent was MANUFACTURERS not operators or home owners, which has a very simple answer.

Short Answer: Manufacturers did not care.

Long answer with details, explanation, and additional notes:

Pinball machines were not designed to be operated for more than 3-5 years, and if there was an MPU problem, they simply replaced it for their lifecycle.
That was the procedure.
Why would they worry about corrosion on boards that would not be operated?
Bally, for example, never intended for MPU-35 games like Fathom, Centaur, EBD, Xenon, Vector, etc to be running in 2017.
They simply did not care, and neither did WMS, Gottlieb, Capcom, AGC, Zaccaria, LTD, Taito, Bell, or Gameplan.
Take note, new owners, modern Stern does not care either, whether WhiteStar, SAM, or Spike.
Games are expendable "toys", not that I particularly like the term as a collector.

I have never seen the corrosion travel through 12-18 inches of wire from a remote battery pack to the plastic inserts (dependent on whomever made the remote battery pack) or a direct solder connection.
However, I check my batteries and replace them yearly.
Maybe if I just let them sit for a decade? (Unlikely, based on my background)
I also use heavy duty dry cell, not alkaline or lithium.
Dry cell can still leak, but leak less than alkaline.
I have no testing in comparison to electrical charge duration to lithium.
If I see any contamination on the remote pack (including age), it simply gets tossed.
Easier than mitigating any NVRAM issues, if they arise.

Maybe at some point I will switch over to NVRAM, but right now I don't have time to install them on the MPUs based the volume of titles I own and have in storage.
I just pull batteries totally, especially since I have titles that have not been played in over 5+ years, and sit in storage for the time being until I have have larger facilities for a game room, or choose to rotate titles again.

Remote battery packs have been around much longer than many may realize.
I worked with some operators that made their own or soldered directly to the battery terminals all the way back in the 80s.
That was over 30 years ago.
They had learned some lessons from the earliest SS games in the 1970s.
Smart operators were already using heavy duty dry cell, and replaced "one for one" which many games initially came from the factory at minimum, and some even cut them off completely.
Once again, it depended on the game manufacturer on how batteries were used.

I remember most of the larger newer collectors around this area that got into pinball in the PNW before I left the country, replacing most back in the late 90s, and early 2000s after WMS closure, mostly out of guidance from other collectors who already knew better and listened.
This is not a revelation.

Also, some manufacturers did not use AA batteries for memory storage (or equivalency), such as AGC, and used watch batteries instead, further reducing the chance for leakage. However, some used batteries that were worse such as Gottlieb and their nasty Ni-Ca, in the 1980s.

This was not meant as an article post through all the different batteries used on SS games from every manufacturer since the late 70s, as most of the games people are referencing are from the late 1980s and 1990s.

Currently, however, not ALL games are compatible with NVRAM, so this is not a "solve all solution" for everybody.
Lithium round watch batteries are a solution for most problems that cannot use remote battery packs.

No arguments here. Lithium all the way.

Wow, lots of fuss over the different methods.
I just use a less than $1 battery pack, run long wires somewhere else far away from the boards, wrap the holder in electrical tape. Good for a long time. Haven't had any problems. One thing I don't do, is leave batteries on the board.

Well I guess there are still system 80 boards floating around with original data sentry battery. Amazing.

This board had it's battery removed like 2days ago.

IMG_20170405_135711864 (resized).jpg

Some are simply not available at all, for any money.

Yep, same here..

IMG_0553 (resized).JPG

https://www.amazon.com/Energizer-L91BP-8-Ultimate-Lithium-Batteries/dp/B0000DC4EL/ref=sr_1_1_a_it

8 count energizer lithium aa sized batteries for $10.20. Divide by 3 batteries per game = $3.4. Once you replace the batteries three times, you have nearly paid for an NVRAM module.

Not really, lithium batteries will last 20-25. In a pinball machine, probably way longer. Longest I've had a game was 7 years. So for me using NVRAM is not worth the extra expense and hassle.