(Topic ID: 46631)

Why can't someone make flip-top rails?


By Rabscuttle

6 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 49 posts
  • 19 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by smokey_789
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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    how_it_comes_out_.jpg
    glass_slide_removed_and_cut.jpg
    hinge.png
    33191-01-200.jpg
    metric_socket_head_cap_screw.jpg

    #1 6 years ago

    There's that ONE spot in our game room that could hold an additional pin, except there isn't enough room in front of it to slide the glass off. You know the spot. I bet lots of you have one too. And one additional pin is not a trivial matter when you're an addict.

    Why do we still have to slide the glass off that way, I'm wondering? Could someone make a rail mod or maybe manufacturers could start designing the rails (I know, less likely) so that they snap open upward-like? Then the glass could basically be lifted out (or still slid out if you really want to be retro about it). It'd still have the lock bar keeping it from sliding out of course. I know those rails come off for powder-coating and such, so they could be replaced with modded ones if such a thing existed.

    The awkward little dance you do, half bent over, getting the glass into the slots to slide in is just embarrassing. We are better than this!

    Is there something structurally I'm missing that would make this impossible?

    #2 6 years ago

    Challenge excepted...

    #3 6 years ago

    I think the simplest solution may be Velcro? This wouldn't require any drilling of holes or major modifications to your pin and still give you quick access i think. I will have to try it.

    #4 6 years ago

    My Nip-It and older EM's were like this. The rails, lock bar, and glass all lift as one and are easily removable. Damn I just figured out how to fit another game hehe.

    #5 6 years ago

    If you dont have enough room to slide off the glass, you probably don't have enough room to have the pin be playable where it's at without feeling cramped in.

    #6 6 years ago

    This idea is one that makes you ponder .......Why didn't I think of that? Great idea!!!

    #7 6 years ago
    Quoted from redmamanora:

    This idea is one that makes you ponder .......Why didn't I think of that? Great idea!!!

    Heighway pinball is doing similar. It was on the whitewood at the UK Pinball Party. I know, I designed it!

    #8 6 years ago

    I have a couple pins that I can't slide the glass off, I just take the pins to the side of them and turn them about 30 degrees to the side to give me room.

    Actually I want one of these for my pins.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=fvwp&v=JguJpX7bS6k

    #9 6 years ago
    Quoted from markmon:

    If you dont have enough room to slide off the glass, you probably don't have enough room to have the pin be playable where it's at without feeling cramped in.

    I have a spot that is almost entirely open except for a support pole. I can't put a pin there because the pole won't allow the glass to slide all the way out. I'm sure there are at least a few others with something like this.

    #10 6 years ago

    In a home environment, do you even need tops to the rails at all? The back could be held by a standard channel, the sides sit on rails with no top, and the the front has a standard lockbar.

    #11 6 years ago

    My bally circus has this option. Glass lifts right up with the rail attached. Find an old EM that has this option. Every game room needs at least one nice EM.

    #12 6 years ago
    Quoted from ChadTower:

    I have a spot that is almost entirely open except for a support pole. I can't put a pin there because the pole won't allow the glass to slide all the way out. I'm sure there are at least a few others with something like this.

    That's a pretty interesting one. Didnt consider that.

    #13 6 years ago
    Quoted from herg:

    In a home environment, do you even need tops to the rails at all? The back could be held by a standard channel, the sides sit on rails with no top, and the the front has a standard lockbar.

    Physically need, probably not. I can't see many people modifying their games to that extent, though.

    #14 6 years ago
    Quoted from herg:

    In a home environment, do you even need tops to the rails at all? The back could be held by a standard channel, the sides sit on rails with no top, and the the front has a standard lockbar.

    For a game with a shaker you might, to keep it from rattling, but if it were sitting on a soft or insulating strip of some kind, maybe not. On the other hand, if there were no top piece of metal rail holding the glass on, what would it even rattle against?

    #15 6 years ago

    I wondered why flip-top playfield glasses didn't catch on & become mainstream. Sure, pins weren't exactly designed to be in the home where there might not be room in front of it to slide a glass out, but hey.

    So there's the advantages:
    1. no room needed in front of the pin to slide out the glass
    2. No 2nd person needed to hold the glass out.
    3. Reduced chance of glass "explosions"(could be wrong on this one)
    4. No need to place it carefully elsewhere while you're working on/under the PF

    Disadvantages:
    1. Parts cost
    2. Car hood "slam" could cause an explosion(shock absorbers like on toilet seats?)
    3. Clearance problems when trying to pull out a playfield on more complex machines?
    4. Increased diffy on replacing pf glass, unless it can be slid out from the upper/lower rails with a bit of unbolting.
    5. Need to redesign hinges to lower the backbox
    6. need to implement design where the backbox & flip-top can't sandwich into each other.

    To me, it seems like it's a better bang for your buck to implement compared to pf toys, toppers, etc.

    #16 6 years ago

    My Bally Vampire has a lift top set up, very convenient for service in a tight area. Would certainly like to see a modern design that accommodates this style.

    #17 6 years ago

    Seems like it would eliminate most of those cons if someone just made a set of rails with a piano hinge so you could rotate the rail top out but leave the glass in place. Eliminate the bottom half of the channel and have the glass rest on a static rail on the inside.

    #18 6 years ago

    You could use standard rails and just have 4 cap head (socket head, for you Southerners) bolts holding it on.

    The cap heads would allow easy removal with an Allen wrench for tight spaces between machines.

    metric_socket_head_cap_screw.jpg

    #19 6 years ago

    Obviously, don't get them as long as the above picture, LOL.

    #20 6 years ago

    Threaded brass inserts could be used to keep the wood from chipping due to repeated unscrewing.

    33191-01-200.jpg

    #21 6 years ago

    Or a set of rare earth set of magnets sank into the wood beneath the rail for the quickest of access, although i don't think stainless steel is magnetic?>?

    #22 6 years ago

    Yeah, I don't want to have to spend 15 minutes with an allen wrench to get at a stuck ball.

    Magnets might not be a bad idea but then you have to worry about the weight of both siderails on the edges of the glass as you lift it. That's not a safe way to do it.

    #23 6 years ago
    Quoted from ChadTower:

    Yeah, I don't want to have to spend 15 minutes with an allen wrench to get at a stuck ball.

    15 minutes????

    I could do all 4 in 45 seconds, but they say I'm mechanically inclined, lol.

    #24 6 years ago

    I just want to push a button on my key fob and have it open like the trunk on a Nissan Altima. Push it again to close.

    #25 6 years ago

    I'm not tall enough to reach the back of the playfield from the front of the game. There would have to at least be screws at the near and far of each rail to hold them properly.

    #26 6 years ago
    Quoted from ChadTower:

    Magnets might not be a bad idea but then you have to worry about the weight of both siderails on the edges of the glass as you lift it. That's not a safe way to do it.

    I think what you could do is remove the side rails, then slide the glass down until you could grab the top and bottom at the same time.

    Or slide the glass towards you until you have a balance point to lift it.

    #27 6 years ago
    Quoted from ChadTower:

    I'm not tall enough to reach the back of the playfield from the front of the game. There would have to at least be screws at the near and far of each rail to hold them properly.

    Yeah, that would be a problem.

    Magnet on the back, cap screw on the front, maybe?

    #28 6 years ago

    Those inserts are hard to get right to hold the side rails on. I would use button head rather than cap head. They look more like the screwnails they normally used.

    #29 6 years ago

    I think the best way to do it is just like the Bally EMs were done. All one solid setup, could lift it up and it has its own supprt rod, then can lift the playfield and it has its own support rod. I can stand in front of my nip-it and pull the entire glass assembly off the game with no issues at all.

    #30 6 years ago

    Hit the glass with a hammer every time you want to work on it...

    Hmm although how to put a new piece on, looks like I'll need to rethink this one...

    #31 6 years ago

    Maybe the solution is to put shrinkwrap over the game instead of glass.

    #32 6 years ago
    Quoted from ChadTower:

    Seems like it would eliminate most of those cons if someone just made a set of rails with a piano hinge so you could rotate the rail top out but leave the glass in place. Eliminate the bottom half of the channel and have the glass rest on a static rail on the inside.

    That's pretty much what I was envisioning, spot on. Just rails with the top part hinged. *wishes*

    #33 6 years ago
    Quoted from Rabscuttle:

    That's pretty much what I was envisioning, spot on. Just rails with the top part hinged. *wishes*

    You would have to shave off the bottom part of the channel or it wouldn't swivel. It would be caught on the underside of the glass. Then you'd need to create some sort of soft bed for the glass to lie on inside the cabinet. Do those and it might work.

    #34 6 years ago

    I have a working prototype

    hinge.png

    #35 6 years ago

    Actually, why couldn't you simply, 1-remove the rails from the cabinet, 2-double-side tape the rails directly to the glass, 3-have a coke and a smile? All you would have to do then is remove the lock down bar, then pull the glass-rail assembly off. You would eliminate the need to slide it out, fingerprints on the glass or any need for modification and, you can always revert back to the original set up.

    #36 6 years ago

    Because you don't want a piece of tempered glass holding weight at the edges like that. That's asking for an explosion.

    #37 6 years ago

    Weight? you mean the rails? I would think that if you attracted the rails to the glass with some good 3M tape if anything, it would make it less likely to break. You would be re-enforcing the edges of the glass with what is basically an "L" beam in the same manner that you re-enforce glass doors in a shower with aluminium edging with a rubber seal, and i can't imagine the rails weigh much of anything at all. In fact, side by side i bet the glass with the rails properly attached would be significantly stronger. Not only would this eliminate any "flex" it would also protect and cover the edges of the glass (usually the weakest point). Unless your using standard none tempered glass and not the standard thicker tempered glass i can't imagine any problems. But of course i am a mechanical engineer so i could be wrong

    #38 6 years ago

    It moves flex from the edges to the center line of the glass lengthwise. Scratches in tempered glass severely weaken it and make it prone to breakage when the glass is flexed or temperature changes too quickly. Since pin glass tends to get scratched towards the middle I suspect it would be a bad combination of surface damage in exactly the wrong spot if we tried to put weight along the long edges and lift it.

    #39 6 years ago

    Yea but you are only talking about a few ounces here, and if you picked it up by the rails it would completely counter this effect yes?

    #40 6 years ago

    Picking up by the rails would make lengthwise center flex worse, not better.

    Maybe the simple solution is to put a couple of small pieces on the short edges to act as a full frame. Then the weight is distributed around all edges.

    #41 6 years ago

    Tempered glass is a lot stronger then you think. I demo'ed a bathroom and tried to bread down the glass doors from the shower with a sledge hammer and nothing happened, granted the shower doors are thicker the a pin's glass but let me tell ya, it was not easy to break.

    #42 6 years ago

    Have you ever had a piece of tempered glass explode just because you moved it? New tempered glass is super strong. Scratched tempered glass has random weak points that are completely unpredictable.

    #43 6 years ago

    I don't think this would be an issue. Honestly, picking up the glass by the edges with or without the rails would make little if any difference in my opinion. Tempered glass is tough stuff even if it has scratches and week points you talking about an insignificant difference.

    #44 6 years ago

    I had the problem where my sys 80's glass would not come out as it hit the wall.
    So i modded the cab.I took out some of the screw nails holding in the rails.I then cut the plastic glass guide,so now when the glass comes to this cut point the glass comes out.And because sys 80 flipper buttons go from in to out the rails slide over these to hold them in place,and the lock bar holds the rail too.

    glass_slide_removed_and_cut.jpg how_it_comes_out_.jpg

    #45 6 years ago

    If fact the mere act of pulling the glass out of the fixed rails i would think put 10X the amount of stress on the plain especially if you let it sag or let it bind when you get near the end of the pull when only a few inches are still captive between the rails no?

    #46 6 years ago

    I also had a different problem in the old pin room where the glass wouldn't come out as it hit the pin opposite.That solution was easy - a 6" high block of wood with a circular hole cut for the leg leveller to fit in.This then lifted pin high enough for glass to pass over pin opposite.Then when glass back in remove the block and good to go

    poibug

    #47 6 years ago

    Well i think i am going to have to test my theory and see how it works. Picking up an Operation Thunder this weekend so who cares lol

    #48 6 years ago
    Quoted from 3rdaxis:

    If fact the mere act of pulling the glass out of the fixed rails i would think put 10X the amount of stress on the plain especially if you let it sag or let it bind when you get near the end of the pull when only a few inches are still captive between the rails no?

    Yes, that's really risky for the glass too, and I would suggest everybody avoid doing it. Ever. Always support the weight of the glass yourself while pulling it out.

    #49 6 years ago

    Meh, just leave the glass out. Get extra points for catching air balls bare-handed.

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