(Topic ID: 119143)

Why are Pins superior to Vids?


By mof

4 years ago



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  • 126 posts
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  • Latest reply 4 years ago by practicalsteve
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    There are 126 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 3.
    #101 4 years ago

    one word.

    MAME

    You can't mame pins where it's an exact replica. If you could, people wouldn't need the physical machine as much. WIth mame you can have every arcade, every council system ever made all in one nice neat machine.

    #102 4 years ago

    Beating an arcade game was a victory, beating a modern console game is more a relief. That is a huge paradigm shift. That is where mobile platform has an edge. Less complicated, less time comittment... Focus more on fun gameplay. I still love skyrim though, the escape from reality element is immense in that game.

    #103 4 years ago

    I used to really enjoy playing the really popular pinball simulation on my phone. Got pretty good at some of them too. Paying 4.99 for an 8k machine was a real plus.

    Had to drive an hour to a friends house to play real machines so didn't do that often. Machines in the wild are no fun as they are always in horrible shape (Fanny Ann's is the exception).

    Got a machine of my own and it just kicked my butt. Why, the physics on the phone just aren't right. The fact you can play patterns with them proves it. With the physical machine the pattern is hit these targets and this gate opens, then you can lock, and other things like that. With one simulation I could bounce the ball off a set of targets and into a set of sideways drop targets every time. On the real machine it's 1 in a hundred.

    Video games have the same issue. I bet guys who do airsoft could tell us how different (and better) it is than the average FPS. The mythbusters did a real life Doom simulation and had a blast.

    Finally there's the tinkering aspect. Playing the machine is half the story for me. I love to fix them up, mod them, show them off. When people ask me why pinball I usually say "they're cheaper than classic cars"

    #104 4 years ago
    Quoted from mof:

    Ben Heck made me think of one today:
    Video games (in general) lose playability over time, since they are married at the hip to technologies that always grow outdated with time. (Exceptions are early cabinet vids that have nostalgic appeal to some of us, and MMO's that update every year -- but require ongoing monthly payments.)
    Examples of vids that lose value over time: (console games)
    GTA1
    COD2
    Madden 1995
    These titles keep re-investing in themselves and making $$$, but you have to buy the product again, and again to get the "most current edition."
    Pinball games lose playability over time too, but at a much much slower rate. Some players enjoy all games from flippers-present. Others like 'em all from solid-state to present. Some just like DMDs... But it's not a matter of losing interest every year or two when the next "edition" of the same game comes out.
    If you buy a pinball game, you will have to invest a little $ keeping it in good shape, but you won't "have to" be buying updates for 20 years to keep it able to interface with the latest video technology, operating system, or other dependencies.
    -mof

    I would have to disagree with this. We have a lot of members who get tired of a pin after a few months and buy the next new shiny game. People may buy the new version of Madden or GTA every year, but there are still a lot of people out there playing Diablo 2 and other old games just like some of us play pins that we have owned for years.

    In the last 6 months, I have played the original Super Mario Bros on the Wii U more than I have played AC/DC.

    #105 4 years ago
    Quoted from Nexyss:

    People may buy the new version of Madden or GTA every year, but there are still a lot of people out there playing Diablo 2 and other old games just like some of us play pins that we have owned for years.

    Exactly. I have played through Dark Cloud 1 & 2 & Final Fantasy 9 & 10 more than a few times over the years. A great game is a great game.

    #106 4 years ago
    Quoted from mof:

    What a great point. "Back in my day", vids were REALLY REALLY hard (early 80's vids like Defender)
    What has happened? Now it's all free points, free hugs, and buckets of sparkly unicorn dust for just pressing "start".
    -mof

    Quoted from thedefog:

    Oh yeah, played the hell out of those in the arcade. My fav. Williams was Sinistar, use to scared me when I was 6.

    "asteroids" dug the grave for pinball for me...

    "defender" nailed the coffin shut and buried it...

    #107 4 years ago
    Quoted from Nexyss:

    I would have to disagree with this. We have a lot of members who get tired of a pin after a few months and buy the next new shiny game. People may buy the new version of Madden or GTA every year, but there are still a lot of people out there playing Diablo 2 and other old games just like some of us play pins that we have owned for years.
    In the last 6 months, I have played the original Super Mario Bros on the Wii U more than I have played AC/DC.

    The point is that you don't upgrade your pinball machine from Metallica 2013 to Metallica 2014 for $8000 because of all the new chips inside, since they 2014 chip set is better. You hold your 2013 game, and it's good for 30+ years (hopefully).

    If you buy GTA1, you'll be buying not an upgrade but an entire new GTA2, then 3, then 4, then 5. If I were to re-write my point, I'd change it to:

    You are not locked into upgrading your pinball machine if you love the title. With video games (from the last 20 years, you are.)

    In 2018, you won't be upset about the technology locked into Metallica 2013. You may have waxed it, or repaired it, but you didn't have to throw it away, and start over because it "LOOKS OLD". In fact, it may have gone UP in value.

    -mof

    #108 4 years ago

    Video Games are more relevant in the modern era than Pinball. But one is not better than the other. Like people have noted it really is apples to oranges.

    What Pinball has over Vids is the physical aesthetic value. It just feels more "real", and I consider pinball the ultimate physical toy.

    Still I love my Xbox. I love Nintendo. I love the classic arcade era cabinets. Gaming in general is just beautiful to me. Also I couldn't live life without playing Pool or board games like Risk.

    #109 4 years ago

    I read through this thread and didn't see anyone mention that every video game is a screen in a box with some controls on a flat panel, whereas each pinball machine is a collectible work of art. A room full of classic pins is amazing just to look at. Add the light show and sounds during gameplay and they are even more impressive. A row of video games cannot compare with a row of good pins in this regard.

    But I do have a pair of linked Cruis'n Exoticas just outside the doorway to my pinball room that I like.

    #110 4 years ago
    Quoted from mof:

    In 2018, you won't be upset about the technology locked into Metallica 2013. You may have waxed it, or repaired it, but you didn't have to throw it away, and start over because it "LOOKS OLD". In fact, it may have gone UP in value.
    -mof

    Nor would you have to be upset with video games "looking old." Mobil gaming is proving that looks of video games aren't everything. Ask Playstation Store how much monies they make every year selling PS1 games.

    #111 4 years ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    Exactly. I have played through Dark Cloud 1 & 2 & Final Fantasy 9 & 10 more than a few times over the years. A great game is a great game.

    FFX is such a great game, minus Tidus. The last good FF game IMHO, and the last entirely Uematsu composed game. Probably played that one through as many times as Metroid Prime.... 4-5 times minimum.

    #112 4 years ago

    pins are better than high score vids, but competitive video games > competitive pinball, by a mile.

    #113 4 years ago
    Quoted from thedefog:

    FFX is such a great game, minus Tidus.

    Yeah I liked 12....but nowhere near as good. Everything else has been bush league.

    #114 4 years ago
    Quoted from Code_Blue:

    pins are better than high score vids, but competitive video games > competitive pinball, by a mile.

    This is true for the most part. The only strong exception is Donkey Kong. I think Donkey Kong as a high score game is better than any pin.

    #115 4 years ago

    This may be off color, but pinball appeals to the empiricist part of my brain that is just this side of the autism spectrum. While playing, you know that the ball will ultimately drain SDTM or the sides, or rarely jump a flipper, etc. but so long as it's in play you are beating the system. That simplicity plays out in many complex rule sets and deepens with technology transfers but it is intuitively simple and satisfying. Video games are great fun, too, but when my sons try to explain the goal or purpose I often tune out before bothering to learn what the end game is.

    As a parent, I like the kids to stand, not be subjected to ultraviolent scenarios, or abuse from
    Predatory strangers. It also teaches them to handle frustration and that it just takes one good ball. When my 8 yo earns a multiball, his eyes light up with pure glee whereas when immersed in a video game there is a vacancy I find alarming.

    Agree with the previous posters who pointed out infinite resolution as well as pop art aspects (though I do wish more of the art was easier to market to the women in my family).

    #116 4 years ago
    Quoted from thedefog:

    Today's video games, you could hold up and mash "A" repeatedly for 40 hrs with your eyes closed and beat them.

    Maybe I am missing the games you are referring too, but most of the first person shooters require a high degree of hand/eye coordination. Mashing no longer works in many of the modern games.

    #117 4 years ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    Ask Playstation Store how much monies they make every year selling PS1 games.

    Yup, I still have my NES and PS2 (also plays PS1) hooked up to the tv. There are a ton of console/pc games I go back to every few years even though I've beaten them and played them countless times:

    Castlevania 1, 3 and Symphony of the Night
    Super Mario 1-4
    Legend of Zelda
    Metroid
    Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance 1 & 2
    StarCraft
    Intelligent Qube
    Bust-A-Groove
    Fallout 3 & New Vegas
    Oblivion & Skyrim
    Wasteland
    Quest for Glory 1-4
    GTA: 3, VC, SA & 5
    Blaster Master
    Need for Speed 3
    Ghostbusters (x360)
    Resident Evil 1 & 2
    Final Fantasy 1-3
    Wizardry 6 & 7

    I'm sure I could go on. Some of these games still look great in their own way and even if they don't, there's always going to be something that appeals to me to make me keep going back. Some games are about the challenge and some are just about the experience. Pinball is better as a hobby, I think, but there is art and there are sounds and there are experiences to be appreciated in video games. The two aren't mutually exclusive in the least and I would hope that people who appreciate one can appreciate the other.

    #118 4 years ago
    Quoted from littlecammi:

    I read through this thread and didn't see anyone mention that every video game is a screen in a box with some controls on a flat panel, whereas each pinball machine is a collectible work of art. A room full of classic pins is amazing just to look at. Add the light show and sounds during gameplay and they are even more impressive. A row of video games cannot compare with a row of good pins in this regard.
    But I do have a pair of linked Cruis'n Exoticas just outside the doorway to my pinball room that I like.

    If you want to spin that argument from the other perspective, every pinball machine is just a wooden box with two buttons on it. At least video games have different controls!

    I understand that is part of the appeal (oldsters and women flock to the pins and avoid my Williams games like the plague), but calling one art and the other not is completely personal. I love the art on 80's arcade games.

    Post edited by TOK: atrocious grammar! hah

    #119 4 years ago
    Quoted from mof:

    The point is that you don't upgrade your pinball machine from Metallica 2013 to Metallica 2014 for $8000 because of all the new chips inside, since they 2014 chip set is better. You hold your 2013 game, and it's good for 30+ years (hopefully).
    If you buy GTA1, you'll be buying not an upgrade but an entire new GTA2, then 3, then 4, then 5. If I were to re-write my point, I'd change it to:
    You are not locked into upgrading your pinball machine if you love the title. With video games (from the last 20 years, you are.)
    In 2018, you won't be upset about the technology locked into Metallica 2013. You may have waxed it, or repaired it, but you didn't have to throw it away, and start over because it "LOOKS OLD". In fact, it may have gone UP in value.
    -mof

    You missed my point. While GTA 4 may get sidelined for GTA 5, there a lot of games that hold up for a long time. I specifically mentioned Diablo 2 since I know a few people who regularly play that, even though Diablo 3 is out. There are still people who regularly play Doom as well.

    You aren't locked into upgrading anything. GTA is a series that adds a lot every time, so people look forward to the new one.

    There are a lot more 30 year old video games that I will play than there are 30 year old pinball machines.

    A 20 year old pin with incandescents looks just as old as 20 year old computer graphics to me.

    And yes, I realize that we have a fundamentally different opinion about the older pins.
    Your 30 year old games are a different story. They look and play like more current games. I enjoyed playing your sys11s quite a bit.

    #120 4 years ago
    Quoted from TOK:

    If you want to spin that argument from the other perspective, every pinball machine is just a wooden box with two buttons on it. At least video games have different controls!
    I understand that is part of the appeal (oldsters and women flock to the pins and avoid my Williams games like the plague), but calling one art and the other not is completely personal. I love the art on 80's arcade games.
    Post edited by TOK: atrocious grammar! hah

    Well said... I do admit around the Jamma era and beyond, the artwork became very lackluster. But if you're talking late '70s; early '80s games... there is games that hold their own and even trumps pins in the artwork department.

    #122 4 years ago
    Quoted from Nexyss:

    I specifically mentioned Diablo 2 since I know a few people who regularly play that, even though Diablo 3 is out. There are still people who regularly play Doom as well.

    As a heavy Counter-Strike player back in the day I still grin that my son regularly plays it even today. I went and checked the Steam server and there are (at the time of this post) over 13,000 people playing Counter-Strike as we speak. The peak today for total online player playing at the same time was over 34,000. In fact it ranks as the 13th most played online game today. And this is a game that was published 15 years ago and has countless mods and new versions (many of which are even higher in the list).

    I think this is less common then in pinball, but it proves certain games age well and can span generations.

    #123 4 years ago
    Quoted from CaptainNeo:

    one word.
    MAME
    You can't mame pins where it's an exact replica. If you could, people wouldn't need the physical machine as much. WIth mame you can have every arcade, every council system ever made all in one nice neat machine.

    Neo, you are correct to a certain point.

    My take is regarding vids. And this is all contingent on how much of a purist you are.

    -Can't replicate controls on some of the more popular titles. (Star Wars, 720, Et.al)
    -Most of the vector games pail in comparison to the real thing. (Sega Vectors just don't look right)
    -Some of the audio is stall not replicated correctly (Atari Pokey for starters).

    Again, depends how picky you are....

    #124 4 years ago

    Its funny seth and I just talked about this. The mechanical aspect of pinball is what makes me enjoy pinball so much. No matter how much you say its not random there are literally infinite pointd of contact with different ball english. Its rather hard to predict a shot unless is a pure safe shot aka. Ramp to flipper. Or saucer shot you know you can craddle.

    You are literally taking a metal ball and bashing it at everything. Its the ultimate physics/gravity fed game.

    Now, vids do internet connectivity way better. Story telling is better. There are a handful of games that I still play. But, ive been actively migrating consol / pc gamers to pins for a while now. While none every give up these games completely (why should they) they now have a craving and understanding of the power of thw silver ball.

    #125 4 years ago
    Quoted from pinballholder:

    As a heavy Counter-Strike player back in the day I still grin that my son regularly plays it even today. I went and checked the Steam server and there are (at the time of this post) over 13,000 people playing Counter-Strike as we speak. The peak today for total online player playing at the same time was over 34,000. In fact it ranks as the 13th most played online game today. And this is a game that was published 15 years ago and has countless mods and new versions (many of which are even higher in the list).
    I think this is less common then in pinball, but it proves certain games age well and can span generations.

    Just like unreal tournament

    #126 4 years ago

    For me there are a couple of things that make pins better in my book, and don't get me wrong I played a ton of video games through my youth. Ask me how many video games I have bought since getting into this hobby? Maybe three.

    When I'm playing a great game, about to reach that high score I have been trying to get to for weeks, about to make that fifth jackpot I have never gotten, just within reach of that wizard mode... My hearts pumping. I'm flying high. My adrenaline is going and I'm excited, I'm nervous, I feel full of energy. I never felt that way with video games. With pinball if I fail, there is no save feature, there's no checkpoint I restart at. I may not have a game that good again for weeks. In my eyes modern gaming is all about trying the same task repeatedly ad naseum until you pass it. Pinball restarts at square one with each game.

    Now in the instance of "classic" games like centipede or pac man, you have that adrenaline rush and that feeling of having to restart fresh each game, but I think the problem with them is that they can be too repetitive in such a compact way. No choice but to shoot the centipede, I feel that while all pinballs have a task, even in the case of an EM where the sole task is a high score, you still can explore the playfield and choose where you want to go.

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