I don't really put ANY value on drive time......this is a hobby. Gas - yes, time - no. I don't count "time" spent fixing up a pin either. Parts & Mods - Yes but not at 100%.

I did lots of research, as much as I could with various searches of the internet, E-Bay and Pinside, before I bought my two players' pins. I don't think I overpaid for either one, but as a buyer, prices never can low enough, right?! Who wouldn't want things for free or close too it, but thatz not a reality.

A seller has the right to price his/her wares at whatever price desired. If it sells, good, if not, oh well, it doesn't. If itz too high for you, move on. When I see something I consider overpriced I just say to myself "man, thatz a crazy high price" and move on.

And with that, muscle cars are not worth anything, so someone please sell me your pristine '63 Split-Window for $20. I'll gladly come pick it up.

I would have paid 1500 and I'm pretty cheap!

There are plenty of threads on here about shipping disasters, its not all just about the money.

This is doubly true when buying a used game. Stern ships their NIB games on a pallet with straps and foam at all the corners, the game you're buying privately might wind up getting a couple pieces of cardboard taped to it then wrapped in shrink wrap with the head up and legs still on.

I'll take a couple hundred dollar hit to know how my game is being handled.

I agree with nearly 100% of your opinions, and I also agree with this one. But it's important to remember that one's passion for pinball isn't directly related to one's income level. Just because you and I are lucky enough to make more than $30 an hour doesn't mean all people do. People who love EMs, which generally sell for only three figures, may still have to save their pennies to buy a machine.

Pinball is for everyone...not just the rich.

I apologize if you feel I am being aggressive. Its really not just directed at you, its just that you brought it up and just so happened to pick my machine to make an example of. The problem is pinsiders act as though they are pricing experts and complain about high prices all the time. What really sucks about that other than seeing a few threads every page about it, is that a lot of people don't even bother to put their machines for sale on pinside because of it. I know of a few higher volume sellers that completely avoid this place because of it. If we can all just accept the fact that pins are likely more expensive than we would like them to be and be more welcoming to people selling games, Pinside would be flooded with games available for people to purchase.

Lately people seem to only care about:

Stern's facebook
Pricing
Sterns code, which they release 20 updates last year, more than any other company out there has even built.
TBL- that whole situation with Phil has finally died out. I was guilty on this one.

you poke the bear, you take your chances....

I made $14/hr in high school washing cars. Nobody making that much should even consider buying / owning a pinball machine. Better to invest the $1,000 in the future. I would guess that 95% of pinside makes more than $14 / hr.

I agree. I easily waste money by doing things pinball related myself. If I just worked the hrs at my job that I put into pins, I could easily pay someone to do that work for me and come out ahead. Pinball isn't about dollars and cents, it has to be something you want to do and get enjoyment out of.

Now as for shipping, god I would much rather pay someone to pick up a game and ship it then sit in a car for a long trip. My usual max driving time is 1hr each way, and that is usually something I really want. I'm lazy I know.

You live in NY city...

You're right, people with low income should not have fun, and only buy console gaming that's worth nada in a few years. Much better choice right?

the stargate you referred to looks MINT compared to the ones I just looked over at Amini's. There it would be $4k with no warranty unless you pay more.
Prices are up as demand is higher with new people coming into the hobby.
It's a good thing. Just save a little more for the titles you want.

Man, you really don't like people in uniforms!

Pinball prices are the way they are simply because people pay for them. Everyone has their limits on what they are willing to spend though. For me, personally, I think the prices on them are ridiculous but I've still purchased a few. Luckily I have no interest in the ones that are being manufactured for 8k..I prefer the older Williams. I'm mostly into arcade games but I like pins also and will add a few more to my collection in the next year or so. I can't blame people like inhomearcade because if I was selling that pin I would want to get as much as I could for it also. I do agree with other people on here that say that its a good guess that most collectors make good money. I think there are other ways to do it also...trading up etc that will off-set some of the cost etc and I know people are good at that. As far as me, I'm very fortunate to make a very good salary. I've spent many years in school to get that salary so I do like to indulge a bit on games. This excuse seems to work with the wife....at least for now...hehe But regardless of income, I still feel its tough to hand over that kind of money for a pinball machine...but I've done it a few times...

I didn't say this at all. But if I were making a low income salary and had saved up $1,000, I would not go buy a pinball machine with that money. Yes, you could and have fun, but just saying that's a lot of hard work just to buy a toy. Owning and maintaining a pinball machine isn't a cheap venture.

I'm not low income, but I am even wondering why the need to even own a pin. I say this because there are so many bars on location now with pinball and I can go out, get my fix for $20 and then not have to deal with any headaches later on. I don't have to worry about anything but getting better at the game for league nights. I don't know. For those who have room and money, god bless them. But for those with very little income, yes, pinball is not where you should stick your savings. Find a place nearby to play.

+1

Back in the day, I would deliver games free of charge and help the owner set it up.

I would drive as far as six hours one way in some cases.

That was before the hobby got invaded and the prices of everything went up.

This might not be the right forum for you.

Ha...not owning a pin doesn't mean I don't want to know what's going on in this hobby. In fact, I don't think any other hobby I've been a part of has the kind of crazy drama, amazing products, hilarious trolling, fantastical speculations and the unique characters quite like pinside.

Maybe where you live, but there aren't as many in the wild as you'd think

It's why city prices are so high. People pay more because they are closer to more. Heck, you don't even need a car in NYC and you can do just about anything. Even shoot a gun here.

Keep in mind that eBay brings a much larger market of ($pick your adjective) buyers. With more buyers, comes more demand. Some of that demand has a bigger tolerance for the higher prices. For some, $adjective is "rich". For others, "dumb". Possibly both! As long as those_ people still exist, they will drive the values of the supply up.

Pinside has only had a couple thousand people online in the last 24 hours. Fewer of the $adjectives that drive the price high. Mostly $adjectives that drive the price low. We're also pickier bastards on what we're buying.

If one is selling just one or two pins, there is a fair bit of comfort of dealing with fellow Pinsiders. If one is running a business, and can absorb the costs of an occasional eBay scammer, then .. yeah selling on eBay becomes compelling. Even with that horrible sellers premium.

Leaning back toward the original post with Stargate as a reference, did you all see the discussion about best sub-2500 pins? Stargate is discussed near the bottom of the first page:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/most-wanted-2500-and-under-pins

Supply/demand.

-Rob
-visit http://www.kahr.us to get my daughterboard that helps fix WPC pinball resets

I've lived in NYC, and a couple of cities with just as much, just as close, for much less money.

I never understood the allure of NYC. Yeah, I'll pay a 50% premium on EVERYTHING to walk around smelling garbage and piss all day

Yup, again the choice of the Stargate ad really is a poor example of market mentality, SG is very hard to come by in any condition and it is really a privilege to play. Highly under-rated, if it was made by WMS/Bally instead of Gottlieb, it would probably be at least twice the price it is today.

I think most people have more money to spend on luxury items now than they had in the last few years. Times have been tough for most and as of late, hopefully, many are starting to have a few extra dollars to spend. So they are willing to pay up on games and yes they seem to want them now and not shop around and wait.

I think everyone has a love hate relationship with NYC. But hard to argue about the energy and diversity this city has. Not to mention the fortitude and amazing food. In most cities in America, kitchen is closed at 10pm...in NYC the fun is just beginning then.

It's really in not bad of shape at all and can clean up even nicer I'm sure. You can upgrade quality with some elbow grease but you can't fix the limited quantity these pins are made in.

More people are into the hobby and there is a finite amount of vintage machines. less pins for more people = increased cost.

In buffalo, you usually don't even go to the bar until 2am

This. Pinside is a definitely skewed towards higher-end games for the most part.

Prime example: People here frequently say Shaq Attaq is a $600-800 game. I sold mine easily for $1200ish mere weeks after one sold on eBay for $1500ish. Another one sold locally that was listed at $1800, so I'm assuming it went in the mid-high $1k range.

Look at this from an outsider's perspective - Shaq has a good toy and a DMD; why would someone who isn't a serious player and just wants a good game for the family spend $2500 for a Bram Stoker's Dracula, when a much more accessible game can be had for half the price?

Because you can't find it in all that fucking snow.

To answer the OP's question, how about supply and demand???

Same reason that a dog can lick his balls……because they can! Haha!!

Well said and this man speaks truth. I had no pins to play so I started buying them, fixing and acquiring more. I love the hobby. There were none on location here so I changed that and now friends have come and collaborated and we have 6 pins out in the wild. I'm painfully middle class, trust me. Public service doesn't pay big $, but I'm not giving up on pinball. Enjoying life is what makes it worth living.

Pinball was not that expensive of a hobby. Not until the stupidity price era (2 1/2 to 3 years ago) did prices start to get to a level that the common person couldn't afford DMD games. It wasn't always like that. There was a time when you could go to auction and buy 3 early SS titles for $10. Late night thursdays, they couldn't give them away and grouped them for peanuts just to get them out of there. Kind of like they used to do for crane games later on. This is when TZ's and TAF's were $1200 for nice ones. There still are reasonable DMD games out there that are fun, but the numbers are getting less. Least the prices are heading back to the way they were 4 and 5 years ago and less from the 2 to 3 years ago climax of the hill.

As others mentioned. EM's go for $100-500 on a fairly regular basis. Some are damn fun. Lot of early SS's also go for that. Not hard to find a $300-500 flash. Because they made a million of them. That's a lot of bang for your buck.

New in box pins in Aus are insanely expensive at the moment...

Yeah but everything in Australia is insanely expensive.

I know eh Neo...it was insane wasn't it? Guys posting "I dontz gotta sell, but if I do... here's my stupidly priced era breakdown". Then they rag on everyone else's prices for the next three years...

A NIB pin today is anywhere between $4800-$9000. Those are very expensive products at those prices. Does a nice Fish Takes or Road Show at $2800 really sound that unreasonable considering NIB prices? No. TZ at $5500 and STTNG at say $4500 for nicer examples seem fair considering what a NIB pin at that $5k price point comes with.

The continued price hikes for NIB games and more people coming into the hobby are driving prices on older titles up.

it's still insane. Just not quite as bad as it was. it's going the right direction anyway.

Why are people paying so much for pins?

Answer: So my wife doesnt spend it on something else!

Good call. Pins usually cost me double the asking price. For instance, with my next pin, it'll cost me the price of the pin plus the cost of a new dining room table for my wife. Is that win/win, or lose/lose?

It's all about supply.

I highly doubt they are going to remake F14, or Whirlwind (for example), so what is out there in the wild is all that's left.

Not to mention, fewer of them every day as some are left to rot neglected in storage, thrown out because they were neglected, or parted out if someone doesn't want to take the time to restore it.

yup... like that fool who parted out that perfectly fixable machine a few weeks ago...

Buying a brand new car is, financially, one of the stupidest things someone can do. Yet they sell millions of new cars a year. Why? Because not every decision is based on financials or even logic.

Ebay is convenient and easy, and if you don't know the market, the prices might not be that crazy for that guy who just wants one game. I get people asking me how much games cost all the time and they are universally shocked at how cheap some of them are. Not everyone has your insider perspective or knowledge.

You *know* the hobby and the person who is buying that game probably doesn't. How is that hard to understand? It's a universal hobby constant!

I will never purchase another used car. It took two vehicles to figure that out. Once I purchased new, I will never go back to used. Financially, it all depends, used usually does not make sense between interest rates and the unknowns associated with a used vehicle.