Why are people paying so much for cocaine?

It's kinda the same story. Supply and demand, and you have to figure in the cost to make either.

Pinball is a hell of a drug

I got flamed for saying this on KLOV, but people drop $1,000 for a dinner for two every night in NYC, so paying $2,000 for pinball machine that will be around for a long time is not a big deal for some. Also, you never know, that could be someone's childhood game and to them the price means nothing. I just don't think we should call these buyers names and say they are ruining it for the rest of us. The price of pins/vids is going to sky rocket even more. Why? Because people really really want stuff that has nostalgic value.

I've got a single Transformer toy that's worth $8,000. Would I pay that now for one? No way. I purchased it in 1995 for $600. Go figure.

> Why are people paying so much for pins?

Supply/demand

Please tell me you're going to sell that soon.

I'd rather see the toy I'm intrigued

I should It's so hard to part with collectibles. Which is another reason why pin prices are heading so high.

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/l/law-of-supply-demand.asp

It's got to be hard to sell something like that when prices are going up, but certainly there is a finite window of time that people would pay crazy money for it, right? Eventually, it'll be like $5 again.

A mint in box Fortress Maximus sold for 10K 2 years ago. Mine's about as mint as it gets. That Pepsi Optimus Prime is worth another $3,000. The toy market is insane and makes a pinball machine with TONS of moving parts seem like a bargain.

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Considering the stupid money people pay for things like bottled water, eyewear, handbags, etc ad nauseam; 1500 for an awesome pin doesn't seem so bad.

No, classic toys keep going up and up. Even when they made remakes, people still want the originals. Eventually when everyone who once had a connection to the original toy line is dead, then yes, the value may go down. But these things are like Rosebuds, every rich rich dude who realizes all he ever wanted was to recapture that XMAS joy when he got transformers would pay anything.

At least it's an auction. This will fetch what the market is willing to pay. Other's might list it at some ridiculous BIN price, like $3900....and then keep relisting it over and over.

Awesome. I bet if you do research on other collectible markets, you can figure out approximately how long the bubble will last.

And you make a great point...some things, like cars, have a higher floor for prices - because the parts themselves have value. Toys, not so much.

Hey Ryan, you bring up a great point. I did experience a transformer bubble burst once. It was on their Beast Wars line of toys. When the show was on air, collecting Beast Wars was hot. I had all these rare variants, like "Red Eyed Cheetor" and such. That toy alone would Fetch $200 all day long (keep in mind they were $10 in the store). But once the show ended, so did the demand for the toys. Prices plummeted. I should have sold during the height. Instead I waited and just sold my toys as a bulk lot just to get rid of them. Ended up selling so many for just $500. Lesson learned.

But original G1 stuff is always on the up and up.

Actually the toy market goes through cycles, TF has been going high for a while but it doesn't always mean it'll stay at those prices. but I love high end toys regardless

Oops didn't realize I missed a few posts while writing lol...

Awesome, Transformers where the sh!t. What a brilliant concept for a toy.

So...yes, the value will go down. It'll be long before everyone "is dead" though. I'm no expert, but I'd be surprised if there is an example of a nostalgia based collectible market that didn't have a quick bubble and crash. It didn't take people dying to pop the bubble on baseball cards. Or muscle cars. People who are paying top dollar for rare NES games right now are what, in their 30's and 40's. No way someone is going to pay $50k for a NES cartridge 40 years from now.

They may still be going up now, but it will go down again.

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Muscle cars transcend the generational mark. Tin toys do as well.

In the toy collecting circles people average around d 2 - 4 years before moving on which lends itself to cycle

Well not all collectibles are the same. I think what drives a lot of prices up are categories where you can actually "Complete" a collection. Baseball cards used to be like that and the rare cards were the ones everyone wanted. But our love for cards, and baseball, has dissipated. Video Game collecting is hot right now. And guys who want to complete their NES collections will all want a Stadium Events cartridge, since they made so few.

The muscle car bubble burst because of gas prices. But the prices of original muscle cars is still super high. The fools are the guys who buy new muscle cars, don't drive them for years and then watch as Ford, Chevy, Dodge continues to make better and better versions. Nobody wants a 2008 Shelby GT500. Some guys paid 25K over sticker back then because they thought it would be collectible. Never. But a classic Shelby will always be a 6 figure plus car forever.

For some reason, I thought the bubble had already burst on muscle cars. Apparently not: http://www.hagerty.com/valuationtools/market-trends

That's an interesting distinction. But, at the same time, won't that put a time-limit on the madness? Once all the people who care have completed their collection, then no one is buying anymore.

A lot of collectibles dropped due to the financial market issues in 2009 or so. Muscle cars are bad ass and will always have a market. Add in the tv shows for them and the hot rod events and you have a recipe to adding newer people into the hobby continually

Ah, but see what if 500 people are chasing 100 available copies of Stadium Events? Imagine if 1,000 are chasing it, and so on.

With classic cars, you literally have millions of car enthusiasts and like a handful of original Shelby's.

Companies try to fill the gap by remaking stuff, but that never works as collectors want originals.

However Pinball remakes are a different story. I don't think people care if it's original or not. Because there's just no nostalgia associated with the people behind it for most, nor is the experience any different. Nobody remembers as a kid opening up a Twilight Zone NIB that Pat Lawlor's hand made. But a car built by Carroll Shelby himself. Mint.

A lot of people nowadays don't care for original cars, today's generation is fine with a classic styled car with better handling and performance. I think pinball is similar. I know a lot of folks want the originals but if the quality of the new remakes is consistent with originals and even new sterns then I'm sure many will be fine with them.

People comparing prices to 5-7 years ago should also consider how much weaker the economy/stock market was back then.

Trolling 101

Most pinball machines to me have been under valued since I got into this (buying) about 4 years ago.
Many games to me are still under valued and will rise (relatively speaking),
so get whatcha can while ya can (if it's what you really want that is).

Side note:
Being that I operate what I buy,
what I have in games goes down so I'm happy with most purchases even more as time goes on.

Trends come and go. 15 years ago collecting Atari was hot. Then it moved to NES, SNES and currently N64. It's tied directly to what age group is "coming into money" but hasn't gotten clobbered by kids yet.

Pinball skews a little older, late 30s sounds right, though our new guy at work is already asking how one obtains a pin! (24) Getting young people excited is key to maintain sales once the current buyers get too old. Entire industries can die once they buyers die too, see newspapers in about 10 years

Something else to consider, B/W prices has stabilized thanks to Remake Scare, but they're still priced out of a lot of buyers reach. Thus the demand for sub 2k games will go up and also their price.

This comment reminded me of the Star Trek episode where someone tried to bid on Willie May's mint 1951 rookie baseball card for ten bars of gold pressed latinum.

Art will always imitate reality over time.

because most people around here have no patience for anything. Nobody wants to do the work to look, and drive to get something reasonable.

When they want it, they buy whatever is fastest and easiest to find, with total disregard for price. Maybe it comes from the "gotta have it now" generation? Who knows. With haste comes waste.

You either waste time or money. To some of us, time is worth way more than money.

maybe in NY and CA. But around here, we don't make enough to wipe our asses with $100's.

Maybe so. But your cheese and brats kick ass.

I don't see a problem with that price.

I have had many great players machines. Often, a players machine plays better then a high end machine, just depends on who and what type of attention has been given to that specific machine. Personally, I love routed beaters, they are the soldiers that survived and still serve us faithfully.

Pinballs were made to take a beating and make money, not win beauty pageants, be covered and never played.

Getting back on topic, Stargate is not a good example to base market mentality on. It is a very hard machine to find, and even harder to find in good condition or better. It is mostly accepted to be Gottliebs best machine ever, and usually many people on the lookout for them in any condition.

I looked for one for years and am very fortunate to have the one I found. $1500 for a Stargate in players condition or worse is about the best price you will find, it is worth about that just in parts if it is complete. Stargate is an awesome machine overall, don't see them often in collections or in the wild, a very great addition to any collection.

Guilty. These poor guys live in one of many boxes in storage. Legos, Simpsons, etc... Now it's just pinballs and records.
Nice Transformers collection. My younger brother would sh**!

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It costs $400 to get a pin shipped vs 11 hours of your time + $70 in gas.

If my math is correct, an 11 hour trip for a pin means you value your time at less than $30/hr. For some people, it's probably less than that, for others, it's much, much higher. Some lawyers make $300+ per hour! They could bill almost $1000 in the time it takes to drive across town to look at a pin, load it into their car, bring it back home.

Says the guy with three Stern LE games in his lineup.....what a joke.

To the OP:

I almost did not click on this thread because I am so sick of people complaining about the prices of pins but I am now happy I did. That is actually my game that is being sold. I am not the one to thumbs down your post.

The reason why I refuse to sell pins through pinside, people like you. If you can't come to grips with what pins sell for or if you think they are too expensive either find a new hobby or keep it to yourself. Pinside is full of price experts, people like you tell me it's an 800 game and that you wouldn't touch it for that, so I put them on eBay and usually get way more than an expert like you would offer. Oh well no skin off my back.

I do have to admit, when I put it up for 1200, I thought it was a 50/50 shot at someone bidding, I can't believe its where it currently is. I'll gladly pay ebay 10% than take your 800 offer though.

I actually had a pinsiders come out to look at it for 1200, he was back and forth on wanting the machine because of all of the cosmetic issues. I insisted that he did not purchase it because I could tell he would not be happy. So he purchased a judge dredd instead from me about a week later after being able to save some more money. He couldn't be happier and that's what I want. I don't force or try and sell anyone on any of my machines. They are what they are. I have routed to death beaters like this and nib on the shelf in my warehouse. These routed beaters make people very happy. Not everyone has 2k and up to buy a machine and they are happy to have a beater game that works. Stop being a pinball snob and price expert, it's annoying.

Also the touch up looks very bad in the picture, a little better in person but it is way better than the wear spot that was there. A guy in the shop did it with paint pens because the wear spot was annoying, he asked if he could do the paint pens and I said go ahead. This game is what it is, a routed beater than an operator made a ton of money on over the years.

And to sum up your original question as to why people pay what they do for machines. It's what the market is currently at. It doesn't get much clearer than that with ebay.

possibly because their budget doesn't allow it... you just blithely say "spend twice or three times as much" like people can just pull 100's out of their ass...

a pin doesn't have to be a beauty queen to be fun... some people have forgotten that or never learned it in the first place... it may come as a surprise to you, but the vast majority of machines in people's collections aren't beauty queens...

"i couldn't play a pin in that condition" is an affliction that isn't helpful to our hobby...

@inhome.... well said....

I could be wrong but people like inhome go to Ebay because that is where people will spend the most money. When I first got into the hobby of collecting arcade games and pins I would frequent Ebay and even bought a few until I learned about local boards and sites like this where the prices are better. I got a few good deals on Ebay but I feel its the place where the un-educated or newbie goes to first...this is why the price is higher. I don't personally have a problem with pricing threads because I think its good to let people know what games are actually going for and worth. From what I notices it ticks off more the ones who like to constantly flip for income....

Not many of us make anywhere near $30 and hour. most people i know are lucky to make $14-16 an hour. So I wouldn't value drive time at $30 an hour.

It'd be interesting to see the numbers. I kind of assumed that the average pinhead makes an above average salary...simply because it's an expensive hobby (which also requires space, which on average, requires money).

I can see you point, but for me its more about getting rid of a game easily. There are certain titles in inventory I have a waiting list of people that want them when I decide to sell them and there are other games that I just want to dump. I end up purchasing games in bulk, and inevitably I get games I have no need for. For me its not about making or loosing money on them, sometimes I win, sometimes I loose, its more about being able to purchase in bulk and having a simple and easy avenue to dump what I don't want. As for ebay, sometimes I end up making out on a price, such as this stargate and at other times, well I end up selling it for a lot less than I expected. Nature of the beast with ebay. The current customer base out there decides the price for the most part.

thanks