Both of the specific LE's are not great games.

True. BKSOR is better, but it’s just not a theme that is in high demand.

Haven't you heard? Pinball has peaked.

GIO is selling my BKLE NIB at 7500. Definitely worth 8K NIB. Fire sale on my part to pay lawyer fees on a personal note.

It’s just the shear number of new releases constantly coming out and people always wanting the next shiny object. Production numbers are up as by all reports.

I think people are scared of the Stern node boards too, this is really hurting the secondary market.

It isnt that Large a depreciation. Most LEs are sold at a Non Advertised Discount closer to the sales price you see.

Have you played it? Lol.

I love my black knight le and won’t sell it

It's all about theme integration and the code. If those are both hits, then the LE retains value. Otherwise, they just sink. Munsters code is too easy for most collectors, and the BKSOR isn't a theme that will bring in big bucks. Hence the drop because there's no scarcity or FOMO.

You buy an LE, you expect to lose a grand. So don't sell it!

I expect to lose at least 2K.

With Pro games selling for 5100, LE for 6300 after shows... why would people expect the values on new games to hold out?

Seriously, look at the used game market - the reason the trade in original games is going so well is because they aren't dealing with JJP warranties, Spike board replacements, and high replacement part costs - in my opinion....

If the new game market was supposed to kill the old game market, they shot themselves in the d**k.

Pinball prices are down because Multiballmaniac has been telling people that there is a big recession looming for the last three years and he has everyone scared to buy anything right now. One of these years he will eventually be right and tell everyone "i told you so"!

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JJP's don't hold there value any better except for JJPOTC and that is because of the short run. Plus it is a great game. Popularity plays a big role. BKSOR and Munsters were not as well received and are less in demand.

Saturation.

High prices.

Depreciation is normal.

Because LE's lately do not have enough added to them to warrant the $2k extra investment. Also, Stern is making too many of them. LE's demand is cannibalizing itself because they are not that rare. Make 100 JP LE's with a unique mech and see how much the price goes up.

Why do new cars depreciate when you drive them off the lot? You are asking the wrong question. The notion of stable value (or increase) is not realistic on items like this that really aren’t “rare” and are a non-essential toy. Frankly I’m surprised the depreciation isn’t WORSE across all NIB pins.

Shit look at Pinball Dudes in Florida, just listed a BKSOR Pro for $4500 (!!) HUO with very low plays... considering that most of us are paying the minimum of $5600 delivered, that's a $1100 hit in 4-5 months. Pretty darn bad IMO.

Recession most likely in 2020. That’s all I can tell you for now.

To many choices out there. The games are too expensive to begin with. Impatient sellers. Lots of picky people.

LOL, This is Pinside! New games are analyzed quite heavily here! Only the most desirable /well designed pins can hold their original value right after release. Some like GBLE increased for a short while ( maybe a month), until people started identifying complaints and the prices dropped. Some like DPLE/ GOTGLE got hammered right out of the gate, dropped pretty quickly only to recover somewhat following code improvements. Try to get a IDMLE, DPLE or GOTGLE for 7500$'s. . Though even these games will not most likely go for original MSRP. STLE held its value for a several years but has dropped somewhat due to all the other opportunities. Going back some,Avengers/ X Men started well but got hammered till where they dropped sub 5k only to more recently increasing to low 5's. AvatarLE got destroyed for a long time only to recover in say the last year as people start to appreciate the value and the original resentments are forgotten.
The only LE's that went up and has stayed up that I can think of is TronLE , LOTRLE and SMLE. Tho SMLE seems to be dropping lately. These may be did well they were not that much more dollar wise then the base pin and all three have more desirable armor/add on's.

That's the price of "zomg, I have to have it now while it's still bright, shiney, and new!!! YOLO, keeping up with the Joneses!!!!"

Patience is less costly.

Question should be how did used games hold their value so well for so long? Losing $1-2k on a toy after opening the box and playing for 6 months is still amazing.

Waaaaay too many titles being produced, too many Le’s per title, Le’s aren’t so special and Premium’s available for years. I seriously doubt any new games will hold their value from now on unless unusually rare or special for some reason.

Its partially due to the games being $9k to begin with and if they don't have near universal appraise along with deep and unique code the values are going to drop more then others.

Yup. Values for LE's used to hold so well as they were not $9k+ and counts of LE's were significantly lower on average. We've now entered an era where record high prices means a greater hit on the secondary market as theres only so many pinball dollars to go around.

I suspect It has to do with supply and demand.

There’s nothing limited about them !
Over priced to start and build quality
Gets worse each game. Honestly $9k
And you get a lock down bar with Home Depot latches ?cheap boards, metal back box . But everyone loves them ?

nah

This. If you could have 1 of any Stern released in the past few years, where would Munsters fall on your list?

this and a saturated market.

MSRP on LEs are overpriced...

I'm usually not an LE guy, but I made the mistake of playing my friend's DPLE and had to upgrade. That pin is sexy.

And whatever you do, LE owners, NEVER EVER EVER EVER lose your certificates of authenticity!

Given the deluge of cheap knockoffs flooding the market, it's the only way that you can conclusively prove - and that a buyer can be 100% certain - that your LE which they're contemplating buying is genuine. But should your certificate get lost, stolen, damaged or destroyed, just let me know the game name and serialized number and I'll print you another one.

Just a little friendly ribbing of the whole notion of having a certificate of authenticity for a pinball machine

I'm sure it's still cool to have and (I presume) frame.

Look on the bright side, could always buy a new vehicle for $40k and have it worth $20k after 5 years, if that.

Is $7,500 really "cheap?"

I've never spent close to that on a pinball machine in 20 years.

Hey anybody know what my Rolling Stones LE is worth these days? Even has the COA! And Gary Stern signed the playfield for some reason.

What's a diamond edition Beatles going for these days? Selling price...not asking price.

Well, it kind of is. The question is, why are new stern les with such low plays going for so cheap? The answer is, not as many people like the game so there isn't as much demand. That doesn't mean the game sucks but it does mean it's not popular. I'll speak about some games I own:
- Why does MET LE and Tron LE still go for what they did NIB? Because they are popular games.
- Why does Avengers LE and TF LE go for so cheap? Because they aren't popular games. I think they are fun but obviously not as many people feel the same as me.

Value is based off the demand of the game. Those two games have less demand than supply and thus don't fetch as much as something like DP LE or IM LE.

I'm sorry, but what is the definition of limited again? Think I missed that day in 2nd grade...

Maybe if you are talking about JJP where they come out with new versions of limited machines but that is one thing Stern does well. They state they will make only ___ amount of LE's and that is what they do. Are you saying that when they say production is limited to 500 they are selling 1000? 500 may not sound "limited" to you but it still is limited. Depending on the game, some can be hard to come buy as well.

Me personally, I don't care about the "limited" aspect of things. The LE's I have are because I wanted the full version of the game (before premiums where introduced, TFLE and TronLE) or because I very much preferred their artwork over the Prem versions (GOTLE and METLE).

Also the decline in build quality. Lightweight. Cheap clumsy lockdown system that pulls screws out of the cab. No coffin lock, back to Bolts?

Not wanting to take the price hit per dimple density?

But yeah, peaked ? . There will need to be Lots of New pinhead buyers to sustain the current growth in pin manufacturing for very long. Competition will get fierce. Only the best products will stand, and their manufacturers may survive.

And then they make a Vault Edition.

As someone new to pinball my perspective is that a used game, if a HUO with low plays, has to be significantly lower in value than a new one to get my attention. The reason is I don't know many of the sellers and don't live close by. So I'm not willing to take a chance with a used machine. Rather pay a little more and get new. If discount is steep enough I would consider taking my chances.

Of course this doesn't apply to games that are out of production.

I was offered a BKSOR Pro for $4600 1 month after it came out with less than 100 plays on it and I passed. It ended up selling for even cheaper than that to someone else. There's just not enough there for me personally to spend that kind of money on one.

In the whole scheme of things, all pinball machines are "limited". There just aren't that many of any model made when you consider the number of people on this earth. Doesn't mean that the value will go up or that more people will get into pinball. But it is pretty cool that some of you own machines that are 1 of a few hundred left or prototypes that are the only version.

Keep any machine long enough and you can get the original purchase price back.

Munsters LE released at 500 units.... a bit later, then suddenly what, 600 ?