meh, LCDs don't make pins better.

I don't 'get' any of the latest Stern pins (BM66 etc..) sure they have a big honking display but that doesn't make them better. I mean sometimes the ball will be held so you can watch a movie or play a tie fighter button mashing video mode. I think what makes pinball machines great is gameplay and rules the display and such are mere icing on the cake.

Anyway I have had a lot pf great games and think AFM is possibly the best game of all time (I have the remake so it has a lot of the light show and large display of modern pins).

I think AFM is one of those simple enough for anyone to understand and easy enough to get a few goals but and fun hard to beat.

I don't love MM and MB as much as AFM and don't really desire to oven them as I feel like I have better pins already such as TWD, Woz, DI (just my opinion). But if I started cutting down my collection, AFM would be the last to leave.

I truly believe it is the call outs as they are original and hilarious.

Nope. Absolutely not.

Because there is a sense of character with B/W. They don't appear to be a cheap "cash in" with their games.

Look at how unique and different most of the PFs are. NO other PF resembles the layout of Corvette. No other game has a ramp like CFTBL with the whirlpool at the end of it and the massive loop it does with the lights on the side. Today's companies haven't released anything close to "Red and Ted" or "Rudy" from Roadshow or Funhouse.

One innovation after another from a working gumball machine AND clock in TZ, the Thing flipper in TAF, strobe MB in AFM, mist ball in BSD, the Shadow "disappearing ball", Champion Pub's jump-roping ball - just unprecedented in comparison.

B/W games are fricking bricks in terms of strength and build construction. Just compare their leg brackets to "today's leader" and that says it all.

B/W has an excellent mix of licensed themes as well as unique themes. For every Terminator 2 there was a Cactus Canyon, for every Johnny Mnemonic there was a Medieval Madness, for every Doctor Who there was a Whirlwind.

Then you have the themes that were unlicensed but "close enough" to actual licenses: AFM to Mars Attacks, MM to Monty Python and the Holy Grail, No Good Gophers to Caddyshack. They weren't carbon copies of well known media; they were unique enough that they could stand alone and become beloved.

Then you have the really unique and different "well, let's try this!" attempts at something different. Safecracker is an excellent example of trying to appeal to a newer crowd with the board game on top, the tokens you can win, and a smaller machine packed with just as many goodies as a full-sized game. Pinball 2000 was another try at something different. I really wish SWEP1 had come out FIRST and then Revenge from Mars. That might have saved that format, but hey, at least they TRIED....!

Finally, they are JUST FUN. I don't need a book of Chinese stereo instructions to understand how to play AFM. I plunge the ball, listen to the call-outs and figure out what to do. I don't need to choose from 27 different characters at start-up; I either play as the humans or the martians in my own mind while I complete the game. And when I play these games, they don't literally fall apart around my hands as I play, and if the boards fail, well hey, at least I have the schematics to fix them and any mods added won't "nuke the boards". They are steadfast and proven to work.

I'll play AFM over nearly any game that comes out today. There are two games that nearly got it right: Alien and TBL. Too bad both are extremely limited to the general public.

I think the humor factor puts each of these over liscensed pins. Yes technically MB is a liscense but might as well not have been.

Why do music polls always have Stairway to Heaven in top three, when it is a whiny ear piercer with largely stolen melody? Because that’s what we are trained to think. Shame on you for trying to have your own opinion.

The only games that compare to williams/bally's is JJP games. Especially dialed in. I own walking dead and Ghostbusters, they are fun games but are not even close to the quality of William's. They are like playing a 90,s data east games, feel cheap. Afm is a great game, great call outside and flow, strobe multi ball, a wizard mode in rule the universe, and finish code. I am not to happy with stern right know, I tried to like them but they disappoint me with unfinished code and cheap looking games. I love the munsters theme but passed, I am waiting for willy Wonka.

Note that not all 90s games are rated highly. There were several duds in the mix as well. Just a small few stand apart from all the others.

They are just fun, solid games. Every aspect of those games is good across the board. Layout, gameplay, code, sounds, music, light shows, toys, artwork, etc.

Note that Metallica is also rated fairly high--I consider that one a fun, solid game that has well rated categories across the board too.

Most games have a few categories to them that are rated well, but suffer in other aspects. A lot of the newer games have fatal flaws in one category or another that usually tank their scores. But, there are also a few hits.

There's also the age and exposure of the game to consider. The 90s games have had 25 years to gain an audience. Newer games haven't had the widespread exposure that the classics had since they haven't been out for all that long and location pinball is a fraction of what it once was. If you don't buy NIB games, don't go to shows, or don't know people or locations who have the latest games, not everyone has the opportunity to play them or play them or play more than a few short games in a noisy environment.

Because they're really, really fun games with great themes and quality builds. They also have spectacular light shows and awesome call-outs that have held up very well over time. They still feel very modern to me.

They hit the mark on every box on what you look for in a game. You just can't really go wrong with any of those titles and it's pretty hard to have a whole package come together. MET is my favorite modern game by far but I'd be the first to admit it just doesn't have that IT factor these 90s B/W staples have. Idk if it's charm or what but man they had it all.

Dude..well said.

This is a very accurate assessment. I would however still challenge the specific 3 that are top ranked. All three are great but extremely similar in design approach and fundamentals. Cirqus Voltaire is better than all three of those if you ask me. So is Indiana Jones Pinball Adventure or Twilighy Zone. I think the mantra of the holy trinity of games (the three that have been remade) is growing a bit tired.

Speaking for AFM, I didn't really get it at first but aside from the humor and great explosions it has that perfect balance of many levels of curtains to look behind. Your always going to get at least one MB per game but once you get a little better at it and see the other things in waiting it sucks you down the rabbit hole. Everyone needs to blow up a Mother Cow once in their life.

P.S. Must turn off extra balls to keep it special.

Two things-

1) Nostalgia

2) People like to say "quality", but its really the fact that they have mostly unique layouts. The rules definitely are not deep...especially on MM. Yet Munsters gets a bad rap for relatively simple rules. Most of the newer games from Stern have some kind of a fan layout and 2 ramps. You can only change the graphics and toys around so many times before it gets stale. But they sell...so Stern doesn't want to mess with success. When it comes to unique, feature packed playfields...even JJP isn't quite what the golden age of B/W was Sure, they have crazy code...but the playfields are still not as unique. Dialed in is really close, but the theme the weak spot. A more identifiable non-licensed theme would really make DI an all time great.

I think the last Stern game that really came close to the B/W level of fun and uniqueness was Simpsons Pinball Party. That game is pretty loaded with interactive toys and fun.

Remember the Brady Bunch movie were Mike Brady was having trouble at his job because his ideas were outdated and all his designs looked the same as the house they live in, but with different signage? That's the problem Stern has right now compared to the B/W golden age.

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I can't remember who I originally saw write this, but it was something along the lines of the fact that those games are near impossible to dislike. Their simple yet engaging rulesets, mixed with the super enjoyable themes, make for games that literally everyone will enjoy, and barely anyone will review poorly. This keeps the average rating high. Compare this to a game like Twilight Zone. I think most people who like both games would rate Twilight Zone higher, but that game isn't going to be loved by everyone with its stop-and-go gameplay. This potentially results in Twilight Zone getting a few more negative reviews, bringing down the average and lowering its ranking.

This is just a theory anyways, but I feel like it makes sense.

Because they are AWESOME!!!

Yes, they aren't as deep or complex code wise.

But they have more personality than any modern pin!

Thats easy, old timers and geeks. Call outs bad, artwork in comparison to lets say DP or Maiden or Met etc. bad, music bad, gameplay is great and theres an attachment to a time when pinball was in its glory stage but for me anyway they feel dated and I would much rather play a modern pin. Let the hate begin, I love it.

No hate Hazoff. We know if a pin is older than 5 years, it's placed curbside in front of your house

I want the hate, Oh I've owned almost every 90's game, and I grew up with that stuff its great but now after Maiden or TWD or I'll even say DI they feel dated. I still like to play them and will always be a potential buyer, right now I'm looking to get back a JM and TS as for the pinside 100 its horseshit anyway and we all know why.

I own a large mix of newer sterns and some of the older popular Bally/Williams games. The reason I think these games are always praised is because they all have very cool toys and mechanism compared to the newer sterns. The older games also feel more sturdy built to last, compared to some of new stern games.

It's all a conspiracy to annoy rich newbies.

Ratings don’t matter. The games are fun and have stood the test of time.

I'll pick issue with just your first paragraph.

MM and AFM are virtually carbon copies of each in terms of layout - nothing unique there, other than the bash toy.

No other playfield resembles DP, Avengers, IMdn, X-Men, CSI, TSPP, BBH, IJ, BM, WPT, the list goes on and on. For every argument that X machine is a copy of Y machine (Met - GotG, Kiss - Aerosmith, ST - SM) there are as many unique designs out there.
The reason fan layouts are so prevalent, is that they are popular and do not require to be set up perfectly in terms of pitch to play 'right', perfect for on location.

I'd say Mustang has a whirlpool ramp similar to CftBL.

Groot has got to be considered similar to Rudy.

They are rated highly due to the fact that the callouts are humorous and unique, and are easily understood after only a few games you can figure out what you need to do to get to the wizard mode, nostalgia also plays a huge part.

Personally I got bored with owning MB & MM after just a few weeks - they just didn't have enough depth to keep me interested.

They remade all 3 of those games for a reason......we'll see if they re-release any of these newer Sterns in 2035....

It does?

First time Ive ever heard that one.

I beg to differ.

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Why not?

Both bash toys with a mouth that opens and can hold the ball more alike than unlike - surely?

You're comparing playfield of AS to IMdn?

Loot at it. Look. At. It.

It is a exponentially less impressive, expressive, or striking than Rudy. It's a bash toy.

I've never thought of Rudy as a bash toy.

But hey you are entitled to your optimistic opinion that Groot is the same or even similar to Rudy. It's a bash toy with a door that opens.

No Stern has ever made me laugh while playing.

I love plenty of Sterns like TRON or IMDN but they lack soul. There’s no wink-wink nudge-nudge. And that’s why AFM, MM and MB are the top games, they have that special sauce.

I'm looking. I'm not seeing what you're seeing. There's a bunch of stuff in different places.

So many differences I just don't know where to start.

I guess they both have 4 legs, tilt bob, the same shooter lane, slingshots - you're right they're almost identical

Those games have completely different layouts. Completely. Different.

It was in response to the quote from NPO that "Today's companies haven't released anything close to "Red and Ted" or "Rudy" from Roadshow or Funhouse."

I still think that Groot is close to Rudy or Red and Ted.

I think the higher a game is on the top 100, the more "mass appeal" it has.

There's only so many places you can put stuff on a pinball layout. And when you start getting too cute the games start to suck.

You may be the only one who thinks that.

Oh we know. It's the usual hazoff hates comedy routine. He's so serious, and dark, loves classical music as much as metal ; such a complicated fellow.

Think you're mixing up some games there.

This comment is a great example of why B/W titles still hold the top spots.

Rudy was not only an innovative mech, but his callouts bring personality to the whole Funhouse environment.

This kind of MAGIC was a huge draw for casual coin drop, and why the top titles still hold up well in the lcd era.

I have laughed out on a few callouts from Metallica and BM66 but agree that those B/W titles have more character.

NPO said it pretty well but does it really matter? Classic games are awesome with some duds. New games are awesome with some duds. Everyone has borrowed ideas from other games. Pinball has a lot of tradition and cranky old people that walked uphilll in the snow all day and liked it that way. In 20 years, maybe the juggernaut classics will be replaced with a new generation of games. For now, nostalgia and that classic charm has the edge.

Bahahahaha

BAHAHAHAHAHA!

Bwahahaha?

I love MM, AFM and kinda sorta MB, but I’ve always wished they had actual plungers instead of a big button. It loses 1-2% charm from an otherwise high charm score from me - anyone else?

They’re the best games. Period. They’re the perfect blend of great physical design & gameplay/rules - all coded by Lyman Sheats...the master of pinball rules design. He always knows how to make a game fun for newbs, with nuance for pros. He knows how to choreograph a game. You don’t know it while you’re playing, but it’s like there’s a maestro guiding the experience.

All the newbs talking about “depth” is getting tiresome. The term has been taken out of context and turned into a a term that = better quality. That is wrong. “Depth = fun” is a MYTH. Some deep games are very fun, like LOTR & TSPP. The depth was part of the rules being so organic to the themes and layouts. It gave these games so much to do, like an adventure, but things that made organic sense to the theme (Shoot shots to collect the fellowship characters in LOTR, for example.). Today’s so-called deep games have Rainman level math memorization & slot machine nonsense that has nothing to do with the layout or theme...modes are “shoot colored shots” rather than having any “fun” reason. Modern “depth” & rules have become sterile and mechanical. Not intuitive & satisfying like the best 90’s pins.

I didn’t even mention the mechanical features and clever engineering. Great toys, divertors, and other clever features. Stern games just don’t have this anymore.

Great games are timeless and forever. There’s a reason people still play Pac-Man when modern 4K gaming exists. There will never be an epiphany where the top 90’s games become “bad”.