(Topic ID: 302658)

Why are Men better than Women at Pinball? Your Opinion, with Poll !!!

By HEAD_boss_HOG

2 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

You

Topic poll

“Why are Men better than Women at Pinball? Your Opinion, with Poll !!!”

  • Men are more active, and play more pinball 26 votes
    14%
  • Women just don't care as much 111 votes
    59%
  • Men have better hand-eye coordination than women 32 votes
    17%
  • I have no idea, but it is perplexing 10 votes
    5%
  • men are stronger than women, and thus they are better at nudging, creating a competitive advantage 9 votes
    5%

(188 votes)

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There are 281 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 6.
#101 2 years ago
Quoted from RandomGuyOffCL:

Looks like the type of thread I would start

If I started a thread like this, my wife would challenge me to a game so she could kick my ass at it.

#102 2 years ago
Quoted from Coindork:

If I started a thread like this, my wife would challenge me to a game so she could kick my ass at it.

What happens after that?

#103 2 years ago
Quoted from RyanStl:

What happens after that?

Depends on if we were betting or not, but It probably ends with me taking the trash cans out to the street.

#104 2 years ago
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#105 2 years ago
Quoted from Coindork:

If I started a thread like this, my wife would challenge me to a game so she could kick my ass at it.

If I started a thread like this, it may very well be my last thread on pinside.

So don’t get your hopes up for
“I still don’t get it”

#106 2 years ago
Quoted from Coindork:

Depends on if we were betting or not, but It probably ends with me taking the trash cans out to the street.

Don't you do that anyway?

#107 2 years ago
Quoted from RyanStl:

Don't you do that anyway?

More often then not, although sometimes the kids do it and sometimes the wife does it if I'm working late.

#108 2 years ago

This thread is all over the place and contradicting … pinball needs diversity … we need segregated tournaments by gender to be fair … blah, blah, blah.

Human interests vary by countless attributes including race, gender, age, geography, nationality, financial status, mental aptitude, physical condition, etc. Different doesn’t mean better (necessarily), and lack of universal adoption doesn’t equate to those involved being evil. There is no need to artificially force something on a class of people, especially when they themselves couldn’t care less about it in general.

More specifically about women in pinball, it could be argued that as a group they are better than men. Statistically, the ratio of skilled players to the casual player may be higher (I don’t know for a fact) than what it is with males. Regardless, whatever appeals to an individual as it relates to competitive pinball, if a person is willing to put in the time and effort while having the aptitude and skill set required, then I don’t see how or why their gender wound give them an advantage or disadvantage.

For a similar argument, I would point to Robert Gagno. Some would say that a person with his mental and neurological challenges could never compete with the world’s best players, yet he earned the #1 ranking. In other words, achievement is about the individual and not a classification based on one’s immutable attributes. The fact that there are currently no females in the top rankings doesn’t mean their never will be.

Ultimately, pinball is a game of skill (strategy, situational awareness, reaction time, etc.) and not significantly influenced by athletic prowess. For me it just comes down to if/when a woman has the passion for and chooses to have the commitment it takes to compete at the highest level in pinball (I know I certainly don’t).

-9
#109 2 years ago

May be a Tranny ! be careful

Quoted from skink91:

Sounds like someone of great taste and distinction to me!

J/k

-5
#110 2 years ago

Wrong. Jordan Peterson did a whole video on the state of men and women in engineering and nothing historical about it .

Quoted from RCA1:There are currently many more men that are engineers, but that's the result of it being a historically male field.

-1
#111 2 years ago
Quoted from PinFever:

Wrong. Jordan Peterson did a whole video on the state of men and women in engineering and nothing historical about it .

What? A famous, rich, transphobe, conspiracy theorist has some thoughts? I can't wait to watch! It must be true!

#112 2 years ago

On a lighter note, as I was contemplating the athleticism required to play pinball this Kingpin clip kept popping into my head.

-2
#113 2 years ago
Quoted from Mr_Tantrum:

… we need segregated tournaments by gender to be fair … blah, blah, blah.

Zero people have said this. Blah blah blah.

People seem to be looking for problems where none exist.

#114 2 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Zero people have said this. Blah blah blah.
People seem to be looking for problems where none exist.

Do I need to quote post numbers? Go read the entire thread.

#115 2 years ago
Quoted from Mr_Tantrum:

Do I need to quote post numbers? Go read the entire thread.

Women's leagues exist because women want them and enjoy them. Nobody said anything about "needing segregated tournaments for fairness" except you.

You and others keep trying to make this about something it isn't, to rail against an argument nobody is making. For the past 10 years.

It shows that you STILL don't understand or care about what these leagues/tournaments are and why they exist.

#116 2 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Women's leagues exist because women want them and enjoy them. Nobody said anything about "needing segregated tournaments for fairness" except you.
You and others keep trying to make this about something it isn't, to rail against an argument nobody is making. For the past 10 years.
It shows that you STILL don't understand or care about what these leagues/tournaments are and why they exist.

I don't think we are disagreeing. If a group of people wants to have their own league/tournaments, more power to them as they have every right to do so for whatever reason they want as long as it's not harmful to others (I don't care what the qualifying characteristics are). Ultimately, competition is about pushing yourself to be the best for the elite in any sport/activity, regardless of who you are competing against, and not just about having recreational fun.

Back to how this thread started was why are there no women in the top 25 rankings? My point is fairly simple: since there are no physical barriers or athletics disadvantages, what do you think a true competitor would prefer: Being the #1 female pinball player in the world or being one of the top 25 players in the world, period? While I'm sure anyone would take pride in being the #1 female, deservingly so, I postulate that being in the top 25 is a more impressive achievement and a greater source of personal pride (I'll leave it up to the female players to comment on this). In areas where neither males nor females have a biological advantage, I see no reason why both cannot compete on a level playing field. Again, in my mind it just comes down to someone with the required skills having a passion to do it, setting the goal, and working to achieve it, and there is nothing inherently holding a female back from doing so just because it isn't the case in this moment of time.

#117 2 years ago
Quoted from Mr_Tantrum:

I don't think we are disagreeing. If a group of people wants to have their own league/tournaments, more power to them as they have every right to do so for whatever reason they want as long as it's not harmful to others (I don't care what the qualifying characteristics are). Ultimately, competition is about pushing yourself to be the best for the elite in any sport/activity, regardless of who you are competing against, and not just about having recreational fun.
Back to how this thread started was why are there no women in the top 25 rankings? My point is fairly simple: since there are no physical barriers or athletics disadvantages, what do you think a true competitor would prefer: Being the #1 female pinball player in the world or being one in the top 25 players in the world, period? While I'm sure anyone would take pride in being the #1 female, I postulate that being in the top 25 is a more impressive achievement and a greater source of personal pride (I'll leave it up to the female players to comment on this). In areas where neither males nor females have a biological advantage, I see no reason why both cannot compete on a level playing field. Again, in my mind it just comes down to someone with the required skills having a passion to do it, setting the goal, and working to achieve it, and there is nothing holding a female back from doing so just because it isn't the case in this moment of time.

Keri Wing will be top 25 soon if she keeps playing in tournaments.

The reason none are in the top 25 is just because of numbers as people have pointed out...there's far fewer female competitors and it's going to take a long time for them to catch up. There was a time when there was nobody under 18 years old in the top 25...that changed as more and more of these young, talented players started to join the circuit.

This is still a very young and small "sport," and it's only very recently grown beyond an extremely tiny niche.

I've played against several who are top 25 material over the past few years...it's just a matter of time, really. Will be nice to put this one to bed at that point.

The OP's theory is wrong, and anybody who plays on the circuit knows this. Men are NOT better than women at pinball - there's no inherent reason for this to be true, and as more skilled women enter the ranks, we are seeing the results. I have a hunch once we see women in the top 25, the goal posts will be convinently moved..."Why isn't the #1 player a woman?"

#118 2 years ago
Quoted from skink91:

<sigh> I guess I just wish we lived in a world that let us have it out over our disagreements… even when they get ugly.

Yeah, and I wish I lived in a world where we could have disagreements WITHOUT people being ugly.

-1
#119 2 years ago

Ah yes, the 'lets keep women out of pinball' thread. Did one beat you at a tourney recently?

#120 2 years ago
Quoted from swampfire:

Yeah, and I wish I lived in a world where we could have disagreements WITHOUT people being ugly.

A few rules to live by pertaining to passionate discussions/arguments:

1) While you should know where you stand, you should also openly listen to opposing arguments and seek information that will help you further evaluate your own position . . . it's okay to change your mind and admit doing so.

2) When someone resorts to personal attacks, you know you've won the argument and deep down they do too - that's why they resort to ad hominem. At that moment, it's time to not say anything else and walk away.

3) To quote Proverbs, "Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you yourself will be just like him." If someone is rejecting reason and understanding, then you will never persuade them to your point of view. To engage a person like this in an argument only shows your own foolishness.

#121 2 years ago

Many of the answers in this thread reflect some of the reasons why there are not more women in pinball. It has been a traditionally male dominated industry since the start, and the lack of inclusion and understanding over the years has kept many women from becoming involved. Things are getting better, but it's really obvious we still have a long way to go.

the fact is women have finer motor skills than men....the advantage many of us have in build and strength, is offset by finer skill levels and multi-thread cognition. When I was teaching shooting, those women that practiced at the same level as the men, were generally better than men, and it really bruised a lot of egos. Plain and simple, the lack of women in the top player category is just a representation of the number of women in the hobby at the moment. More and more are joining every day, and they will see more representation. Make no mistake, they will still be fighting a certain amount of Male ego that is going to want to keep them out of the sport, even though it's only pinball. Some are going to fear they will be better .......I for one would love to see a woman world champ!

#122 2 years ago

These answers / theories just get better and better. I almost fully understand everything now.

#123 2 years ago
Quoted from Manimal:

....the advantage many of us have in build and strength, is offset by finer skill levels...

As one who followed billiards (men and women) for some years and watched Annika Sorenstam in person be the first women to play in a professional men's PGA event (the Colonial here in Fort Worth years ago), I would tend to agree with this statement. Watching both the power of the men was obvious versus the ladies, but the consistency of stroke and control of the pool cue and golf club by the ladies versus the men was also obvious to my eyes. While there is a clear advantage to males on the golf course when hitting from the back tees, out of the deep rough, etc., I'm not so sure about billiards. Maybe the extra power helps on the break or in very rare occasions putting exaggerated english on the ball, but outside of that I'm not sure how the top ranked women in the game would compare to the men if they competed on the same tour. It did seem like for years the women's tour was more heavily marketed and televised, but I think that people came to like both the competition and the unique personalities that the women's tour had to offer.

-7
#124 2 years ago

Zero chance I choose to read all the bigotry in this thread but an admin absolutely needs to shut this down. Pinside forums and the general pinball population have a horrible reputation for a reason and this just perpetuates it. Get this trash out of here.

-5
#125 2 years ago
Quoted from Skipnatty:

Zero chance I choose to read all the bigotry in this thread but an admin absolutely needs to shut this down. Pinside forums have a horrible reputation for a reason and this just perpetuates it. Get this trash out of here.

Correct, should have been locked on day 1.

The question posed by the OP is akin to "How long have you been beating your wife?"

It's impossible to answer without reaffirming the OPs nonsense allegation.

#126 2 years ago
Quoted from Skipnatty:

Zero chance I choose to read all the bigotry in this thread but an admin absolutely needs to shut this down. Pinside forums and the general pinball population have a horrible reputation for a reason and this just perpetuates it. Get this trash out of here.

If someone refuses to actually read the content to formulate an informed opinion and just prefers to make assumptions and demand that others not be able to have open communication on topics, then my suggestion would be to ignore the thread and realize that not everything in this world is about one's own feelings. After all, putting one's head in the sand and ignoring the tough topics is how all of the world's problems can be solved, right?

Signed, Tough Love

BTW, if multiple women actually respond in this thread having read the posts and come to the conclusion that the discussion is not informative and worth having, then I would be willing to listen and change my mind. Personally, I never put any stock into an individual or group professing something as bad/wrong/evil/offensive, when the individuals who are supposedly being oppressed either don't comment on the topic or state themselves they take no offense (so many examples of this in today's society). The truly offensive part of such a position is you actually devalue the position and voice of those who are the assumed/supposed targets (i.e. when did they bestow the right upon you to advocate on their behalf?)

I've probably said enough on this topic unless someone addresses one of my points specifically, so I'll stop dominating the conversation and continue to follow.

---------

PS: I'll assume that the thumbs up I'm getting on this post are not because of my opinion, but because I said I'll shut-up.

12
#127 2 years ago
Quoted from Skipnatty:

Zero chance I choose to read all the bigotry in this thread

Way to immediately discredit your opinion.

-8
#128 2 years ago

I don't need to read anything related to this thread to know that after the first post, it should have been dumpstered. If you think that there's a conversation worth having based on that trash, you're part of the problem.

#129 2 years ago
Quoted from Skipnatty:

I don't need to read anything related to this thread to know that after the first post

You absolutely have to read the discussion to have an opinion because there are valid points throughout.

Quoted from Skipnatty:

you're part of the problem

Exactly what is "the problem"? This is an open discussion about the overwhelming majority of men in the hobby with touches about the biological differences and preferences between men and women. The only problem here seems to be your closed mindedness.

#130 2 years ago
Quoted from Pahuffman:

Exactly what is "the problem?" .

You don't have a problem with the title of this thread? There's nothing "open-minded" about it.

#131 2 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

You don't have a problem with the title of this thread? There's nothing "open-minded" about it.

OP is entitled to his opinion. I don't agree with his phrasing, but I also didn't take it as malicious. Perhaps it could have been worded better, but my understanding is he's only interested in why the top 25 are all men. It's an interesting question worth exploration.

#132 2 years ago

This thread is weird, outside of the title and a couple of posts, it’s actually been a pretty decent discussion.

#133 2 years ago
Quoted from Skipnatty:

Zero chance I choose to read all the bigotry in this thread but an admin absolutely needs to shut this down. Pinside forums and the general pinball population have a horrible reputation for a reason and this just perpetuates it. Get this trash out of here.

You sound like your name is Karen.

15
#134 2 years ago

Honestly, women are usually busy doing other things. Also, I have found that men tend to have a much greater "ignore factor" than women in general.

I'm trying to learn how my POS pinball table works, and how to hook up some new lights. In the last 45 minutes, I've been interrupted by: the dog eating something she shouldn't, kids needing meals, kids needing tape, kids needing cardboard, working on Halloween costumes, miscellaneous chimes on my phone about parties that I'm apparently in charge of hosting, etc.
All of which my husband can effectively ignore.

The title was poorly worded.
Oh well.
I'm over it.

#136 2 years ago
Quoted from ElleCayare:

Honestly, women are usually busy doing other things. Also, I have found that men tend to have a much greater "ignore factor" than women in general.
I'm trying to learn how my POS pinball table works, and how to hook up some new lights. In the last 45 minutes, I've been interrupted by: the dog eating something she shouldn't, kids needing meals, kids needing tape, kids needing cardboard, working on Halloween costumes, miscellaneous chimes on my phone about parties that I'm apparently in charge of hosting, etc.
All of which my husband can effectively ignore.
The title was poorly worded.
Oh well.
I'm over it.

You just made me realize how much stuff I ignore, its true .

#143 2 years ago

80% to 90% of pinball players are men. That is sort of the root of the problem with the question, which leads to the best poll answer being "Women just don't care as much". But if men think they are manly because we're better at pinball rather than just interested in something that women aren't, then.... sure I hope that it makes you feel all manly and superior in a geek squad kind of way.

#150 2 years ago

Just want to mention the mods are doing a great job keeping this thread (generally) on track haha. Props!

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