I would have agreed on this premise, but I was at a wrestling sign up for my 6th grader. The coaches had just announced a girls only leage. They explained girls have been wrestling for years as coed, but they never had their own league because of the numbers. Now there is enough demand to have a girls only leage for wrestling. I know it's not really the same, but got me thinking about this subject.

Edit: maybe the winners of woman's and men's leage then face off. That would be a fun thing to watch, like the Ryder Cup in golf.

Maybe it is in your area, but in KC Keri rules!! She is also a great tech!! She has worked on my machines and my friends.. Give it time more Keri’s will appear; she is not a unicorn.

Really my pont was it takes numbers of females to be interested to warrant their own leage. If pinball has the numbers for that, then so be it.

Not much mention of the fact that many women have been harassed, talked down to or mansplained to, stared at creepily by certain other players while playing .. etc. Women only tournaments allow the players to be comfortable, have fun, and (hopefully) not have to deal with that kind of shit. If that kind of stuff never happened, I could see more coed play.

I think the women only leagues are great — I’m sure it is encouraging more to play and compete. I do like the top male/female face off idea for fun at the end of a tournament.

Or maybe it's because the one or two women that might show up at a tournament don't want to be surrounded by a bunch of dudes all night at a bar?

Sheer numbers, when my wife was actually interested in playing her scores/skill level went up quickly sadly she lost interest...but still likes to comment on how she rolled Fast Draw on ball 2.

Seriously. Have you seen "pinball dudes?" I wouldn't want to be surrounded by most of them, either!

More likely than not, “seeing them” is not the core issue… it is listening to them and dealing with unwanted advances.

Not saying this is unique to pinball, but at least in some parts of our little community we need to do a lot better.

They were both killing that weekend. They both beat me a couple times, for sure. Jane, Anna and several others there are very good players, as well. Side note, I was surprised I never faced you once in 6 tournaments, Levi.

Forgot the most important option on the poll:

Women are smart enough to not chase what amounts to a dick waving contest with payouts that barely cover expenses. Men are not.

Maybe the better question: What can we do to encourage women to become more comfortable and active in the pinball community?

My 76 year old wife regularly cleans my clock on her
favorite pin (Aztec).

That's what I meant

The reason these tournaments exist is quite simply because a lot of people like them and want them to exist. Women enjoy them and want them, and tournament directors like them because these ladies spend lots of money on them (I speak from personal experience).

Don't you think it's a bit "patronizing" to tell people what they should like and not like? The women's leagues are all organized by women, and so are many of the women's tournaments.

If you are seriously interested in the reasons these leagues and tournaments exist, you should talk to some of the women involved and ask them why they enjoy them, rather than posing the question here, where almost 100 percent of the regulars are men. May I suggest phrasing the question as "Why do you like these leagues and tournaments," instead of the mansplaining/patronizing version which you seem to favor and I'm told they all hate, which is "Isn't pinball a level playing field and isn't it sexist for there to be women's only tournaments?"

I'm wondering if you really care beyond just trying to stir shit up; you said yourself you suck ass at pinball and have zero interest in the tournament scene. So why does this matter to you at all?

You also miss the point: nobody is "sequestered" into anything, women are free to play in any tournament in pinball, and they do.

Why? Mansplaining, masogony, unwanted advances, etc... hell even the themes of pinballs are not friendly to women. Crap like Big Nelly just continue to make it worse. Really Rush? Most non appealing band for women is the next music pin? Put out Harry Potter, Journey. Quit having polls like this. There are many reasons women are under represented in pinball top rankings. Look at the backglasses on games. Women were objectified in almost all of them through the seventies. The fact that it is was an inhospitable place led women to not participate, so they do not have years of experience. If we made everything perfect, then 50 years from now there will be equity.

Really reaching there… lumping Rush in with Whoah Nelly, misogyny, etc. is a bit misplaced to say the least.

.

My wife likes Rush and pinball... What kind of freak did I marry????

Up here in MN pinball is commonly a hobby/ escape from family life so usually doesn’t involve their wives.

Last year I did start a private group for get togethers and two of the guys bring their women to join in playing pinball and they enjoy it and we all get along. Some women in the group come to socialize with the other women who don’t play pinball.

We all get along and those who don’t wish to participate in pinball aren’t forced to. They don’t object to the theme or offended by what’s on the backglass. Those are silly reasons to not play pinball if you ask the women I know who don’t play. They just aren’t interested. The women who do play could care less about that stuff and aren’t offended. My little cousins favorite game in the house is Metallica and (gasp) she’s female.

Here’s JohnTTwo wife at the end who was supposed to come by for 10 minutes or so to my last party just to drop him off. 3 hours later she’s hooked and played at least 1 of every game in my house and wasn’t offended by anything and I’ve got some crazy stuff in the collection.

How is it patronizing? Some women just want to play with other women, so they formed their own tournaments, good for them. It doesnt mean they cant play in the other tournaments if they choose to do so.

Personally I am terrified to sign up for tournaments because I feel as if everyone would be judging me. Its stupid, I get it, but its how I feel. The more things in this hobby to promote inclusion, the better.

You actually posted a graphic that sort of answers your original question. Next to about 70 percent of the top 25 names was the US flag, so why arent other countries better represented?

Numbers

Sounds like someone of great taste and distinction to me!

The real answer is rooted much much deeper in our society…male privilege. Everything about pinball from the very beginning has been done to promote an advantage for males. The height of the table. The weight of the table. The themes (not once have I seen a Magic Mike XL theme suggested on these forums!!!). The male familiarity with balls and rubbers. I could go on.

We’re not better, but the game has been designed/evolved (conscientiously or not) to provide an advantage to male players. And yet…some women still dominate men competitively despite this inherent privilege we have!!?!

Before hitting the downvotes, please consider these comments at least somewhat satirical…and then downvote!

Or…or….or…..maybe the women don’t want to be around guys who think they are as fragile as they’ve been perpetrated in this thread.

Women like the leagues and tournaments, and want them to exist. Isn't that enough?

That's all that's being "perpetrated" here but that seems to upset some people for some reason.

Heh. It was my wife's favorite game too.

Bro, you have 300 posts. You don't see even 5% of what's posted here. Cmon. You didn't even TRY the search function.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/would-you-buy-play-an-adult-themed-pinball-machine#post-6352668

The weight of the table was "done to promote an advantage for males?"

That's news to me. You're going to have to show some sources for that statement. I would be jaw-dropped-to-the-floor if it could be proven that manufacturers purposely made these machines weigh 200+ lbs to promote male advantage.

I never claimed that I looked hard!

…yeah that was meant as a satirical comment along with everything else I said. I’ve had 3 back surgeries so far, so I’d beg to argue the weight of the machine has been more of a disadvantage to me.

Let me know when you're done with her.

(Full disclosure: I'm happily married, but my wife doesn't like Rush...)

It's always a bit weird to see one group of people over-defending another group of people. It's also hard to reconcile how those same people will argue that there are no differences in gender then turn around and argue why one gender deserves better treatment than another.

As for pinball....who knows? Maybe it's the same secret reason men are better mechanics, engineers, gun designers, golf players, and football players. Maybe - despite what science has taught us - there are differences in gender.

Maybe it's because men spend most of their years learning how to make things work while women spend those years on other pursuits such as lipstick, shopping, and their sick grandmother in the Carribean.

The best answer is...who cares?

Men and woman are different in alot of ways. Hope I didn't offend anyone. My apologies in advance- please don't call my work.

Hang on. I'm a licensed professional engineer and I know many others, including several women.
Men do not make better engineers than women. I know both men and women that (in my opinion) are better or worse at their jobs.
There are currently many more men that are engineers, but that's the result of it being a historically male field. When I was in college, more than 2/3 of my engineering classes were male. The number of women then was up from nearly zero just 20 years before then and has continued to increase. I think that at some point it will be pretty even.

I mean, the fact you're asking a group of mainly men all these questions really should be your first clue. Want to know what women think? Ask them instead.

No, jusjust

Chapelle, is that you?

Yeah, still waiting for Sterns black panther pin.

No, I just know there are not a lot of female fans. I don't think they have any songs that are misogynistic, at least not that I know of. I think Rush is awesome.

Because like my wife, who completely supports my addiction, most women think it is amusingly silly how we grown men spend so much time obsessing over what is basically a children's game. And have no interest themselves. So as noted above, the ratio of women who are serious players is pretty small. In our league, the few women tend to be wives or girlfriends who play just to spend time with their pinball obsessed men. Not all of them, but I would say most. Just like when I go shopping with my wife.

What century are you living in???

Are you for real?!? What the hell garbage is this. It’s 2021 dude, time to put up the 50’s male brain on the shelf and jump into the future. Now the thread is really heading towards a lock, if it wasn’t before. Another one bites the dust.

You should have added this:

Looks like the type of thread I would start

Probably because they are typically more worried about making sandwiches......im just kidding relax

Oh, that sounds good.