I have PBR set up in my bill pay when I get an invoice I simply log on and pay through my bank account site much easier than mailing a check.

^^^^ This

You should just get rid of all your GTB's and give them directly to me.

Stargate was my most worry free game. Never any issues.

All pinball titles and pinball companies had engineering blunders. Williams,Gottlieb,Bally,B+W,Classic Stern,Mondern Stern: ALL OF THEM.

I have serviced and repaired pins and arcade games for many years now. There is no era of game system board or amusement company or even game title where I haven't fixed something that FAILED. Pointing out horrible design flaws attributed to each along the way.

Most often this was done by manufacturers ON PURPOSE in an effort to reduce costs. All pinball companies made a ton of design mistakes and cut corners where they thought it was reasonable. Also, those companies never intended pins and arcades to last 20-30 years. Manufacturers were probably designing games to be on for 3-5 years ALL DAY and played tens of thousands of times before a game just starts to fall apart. It was all by design.

If you drive a car for 20 years every day and put tons of miles on it, does it still have all the original parts with which it left the manufacturer? Hell no.

Also, let's give vid some respect here. He is one of the most knowledgeable folks on Pinside.

Pointing out some of the most obvious SS flaws here:

Gottlieb1---poor diagnostics and crap power supply/bridge/grounding design (one word:ROCKWELL!)
Gottlieb3---poor solder connections everywhere and the cheapest ass IC's.
System 7---interconnect board. what were they thinking!
System 9+11---not fusing coils,early display controller board design,interconnect boards,"special coils" circuit.
DE---Same problems as Sys11 (a copy).
B/W WPC---Reset issues too many to list,poor trace manufacturing and TPH on pcb's. Easily shorted switch matrix. Fliptronics boards!
Early Bally SS---Bridges used in power supply not beefy enough,easy MPU RAM failure, the worst sockets I've ever seen used in a game.
Modern Stern---used way too cheap driver transistors for coils for the 2000-2008 years! Only rated at 50 volts.

One other observation that I have made is that certain games are just easier to "bulletproof" than others. Those are really the companies that stand out as "the best in pinball" from a historical and collectable standpoint to me. 70's had Gottliebs,80's had Williams,90's had B+W, and 2K's is really Stern more by default than for any other reason.

So, I suppose ALL company's pins "suck" depending on the particular owner and how willing/capable they are to bulletproof/repair said machine.

at least gottlieb went to the trouble of having decent quality toys on the playfield.
some fucking stern pos toys, straight from toysrus. looks hell cheap.

True, but people find it fun to bash on Gottliebs...or at least it seems that way.

Everybody can come unglued once in a while.. LOL

And to all that voted for me thanks for the support !

Yes, you are correct. Gottliebs totally suck. The best thing you can do is unload them fast to me at a very cheap price and I'll be happy to alleviate you of your misery.

well..the thing is, everyone is a bally/williams lover....pretty much everyone. So repair and fixes have been simplified for the most part. The boards are pretty easy going to repair or replace. When you have something mechanical break, like a slingshot link, or need a coil stop, or whatever, chances are we all might have one from an old parts pin.
Gottlieb system 3 is on an island, and one guy pretty much controls access to said island. Not always a fun option when you're looking to get your game up and running quickly and affordably.

I have had 9 different Gottlieb System 3 titles throughout the years, and they have all been the most problem free machines I have owned compared to everything else (minus Stern SAM system games). Once you learn how to troubleshoot them (as they are a bit different if you havent worked on them before), it is a piece of cake, they are super simple to work on.

I still think they have some of the most unique layouts in all of pinball, but suffered from poor rulesets and quality control issues with their playfield paints.

Excluding all the time and work I had to put into them (I usually buy basketcases), here is my breakdown of purchases of complete, but non-booting/working Gottliebs-

1812- $350
Mario Andretti- $200
Gladiators- $200
Super Mario- $800
Rescue 911- $200 (missing boards)
Shaq- $300
Wipe Out- $300
Teed Off- $500
Frank Thomas- $300

That is a whole lot of fun for very little money.

????????

Minus full flipper rebuild kits, I have found Gottlieb parts to be far more reasonable than most of their Bally/Williams counterparts. I email Steve on a Monday morning, he emails me back by noon, and I have my parts to Wisconsin from New York by Wednesday....

Tim > Want to troubleshoot my intermittent oddball issues on my SG for me?

If you can wait until summer is over, and can drop it off, no problem....

Not denying this fact at all. We know who you mean.

The more you are in the hobby, the more you realize that all pinball manufacturers made both very good decisions and very bad decisions throughout the years, regarding design. I don't fault past decisions of pinball manufacturers based on the current availability of parts. I do understand that a pinball machine that is frustrating to fix, typically gets a bad rap, regardless of how amazing the game plays.

Considering I will likely not figure it out by then, sure thing...

maybe it's just all perspective. I do like system 3 Gottliebs, they are different for sure. And they are pretty reliable from time to time. Maybe it's just that I haven't had an army of them or any graveyard of parts from them...but whenever I do have one, and something stupid breaks or fails, I find myself having to ''order out'' and it never seems to be a simple part I have, or low dollar repair...
Reminds me of when I had a cue ball wizard, and the stupid opto targets...ugh.

The one I have, Waterworld, is solid. It actually is the most reliable game I have, the build quality seems very good actually. I always have something to fix on my other games, even the newer sterns, but not my Gottlieb. Just my experience.

The only issue I really have with Gottleibs is the flippers. I never feel like i'm in control of the ball. I much prefer the Bally/Williams flippers.

I don't really mind bad rulesets as i'm not good enough to make it through any of them anyway. SG is a beautiful and fun pin

Just put B/W flipper bats in the game then. That is what I did with my dad's two Sys 3's. Works great.

They take wire transfers, or you can set up an account with a US bank for purchases.

I'm sure there are plenty of UK companies that deal in specific markets that don't accept international payments either. To each their own.

I always just assumed it was the assembly and nor the bats that gave them what I can best describe as a "spongy" feel. I may try this.

I hope Gerry doesn't smite me for blasphemy, though.

Many GTB assemblies allow/ were designed for ~15% more travel than B/W ones.

This is one of the things that gives them a unique feel that I enjoy.

I have no idea (clearly) but wouldn't that incur extra costs?

I'm sure there are but just a peev that they are the sole dealer.
Not out and out accusing their business practices but I personally have avoided it and found other suppliers in various countries just for ease.

Edit: I see where my previous post comes across as uh..aggressive? I retract my insane statement as a moment of insanity

I wont, you can always put it back to stock easy enough

What's up with all the F-bombs in this post?....

If you can't fix gottlieb sys 3 then you're just not very bright!

Love my Class of 1812, sure stupid easy rules but fun and funny as hell.

Gottlieb EMs rule.

If you really wanted to bulletproof it (which I don't believe you really want to do), there are locking cable interconnect solutions out there:

http://www.directindustry.com/prod/te-connectivity-connectors/miniature-wire-to-board-ribbon-connectors-66409-543237.html

If this were such a problem for Sys3s, I'm guessing this cable would have had a lock on it from the factory. Of course they would have weighed off the additional cost against the cost of fixing a bunch of blown U8 chips.

Premier probably felt that having an extra long non-locking cable was enough to minimize the potential for damage. Perhaps someone replaced your cable along the way with something shorter which is why it pulled out when you opened the insert board.

As has been said in this thread, every machine series from every manufacturer has its problems. For machines made in the 90s, Sys3s were better than most (with the possible exception of Capcom), your problem notwithstanding.

viperrwk

What light panel would you have had to move? If you open the backbox the light panel is on a door and has nothing to do with the dmd why would you even open the backbox light panel door to remove a dead bulb? They can be replaced without even opening the door then put the translite back on and your done.

yeah.
i think some people like to blame everything else but themselves when something goes wrong.

While I prefer Bally/Williams games, I think Big Hurt is a decent title... and the game is built like a freakin tank. Love the way the playfield slides forward and out of the machine.

Best have them rest here in the mid west with me before such a long journey......

This actually just happened to me, and I also only removed the light panel. I just got my Wipout home... All I wanted to do was play a few games of pinball. I couldn't believe it. I didn't know this issue existed until I read about it in the repair guide (the only other gottlieb I've owed is SF2, and I only owned it for a couple of days).

In the guide it says you'll likely blow q1/q2... I'm hoping this is what I did and not U8GAL. I'll find out when I get back from Allentown to take a look.

I feel your pain brother.

Audio aside, Big Hurt is awesome.

Gottliebs are solid. Never had an issue with them.

Isn't there some sort of gel or something they use on the Stern games to hold cables like this in place? I seem to remember having to remove it a time or two when I needed to remove a board.

I can't go that far since I've struggled with the two System 80B games I have, but all the System 3s I've had have been solid unless except for Surf 'n Safari. The initial problem was a misaligned opto in the whirlpool. The repair person (me LOL) screwed up by working on the game with the power on. Zap!! $100 or so later, a replacement board was in and the game was working again, but I still haven't gotten the optos to stay aligned over the long haul.

I like the rules and the gameplay on all the ones I have/had except Rescue 911. I even liked the rules on it, but didn't really like the shots enough to keep it around. Most of them are not forever keepers for me, but I like the variety they provide. Jon Norris is my second favorite rules guy.

I've got Tee'd Off and Gladiators on my wish list right now and I'm doing a temp trade of my WH2O for a Cue Ball Wizard next week. I'd pretty much consider local examples of any of the other ones that I haven't had before.

What light panel do you remove from SMB or a wipeout? These have doors

No, don't use super glue. Use a hot glue gun like stern does to keep their cables in place. It works quite well. If you have to remove it in the future, it's not hard to peel it away and re-apply when done.

About Gottliebs...
From my point of view...( I was operator and tech from 1980 to 2000 ), in my county (Dalmacia)
Gottliebs ARE dominating machines (there IS reason for that, but it is "another" story )

We are talking about reliability... I have seen a LOT of SYS 1 machines which made OVER 100k
games, and few of them over 200k games !!
Some of them was in very, very bad condition ( dirty and worn playfield, missed GI or "half"
controlled lamps, weak fliper(s) , terrible rubbers and coin door with concave "look" )

Reason ?!? ...simplicity of electronic circuits and robustness of mechanical parts,
ESPECIALLY flipper sys

YES...it's also a "lot" of weird details, like ground lines, connectors and obsolete CPU stuff,
but with proper maintenance Gottlieb SYS1 is "indestructible" !!!

With only one IMPORTANT rule - don't pull up a playfield with power on !!!!

I had many pins on service with same story...
" It worked fine, and I have to made some "minor" works UNDER playfield ! " )

SYS 80 (A &B )is similar story with more connectors (ground) problems and
solenoid "baking" problems )

Common conclusion for that era Gottliebs ... with some (quality done !! ) works (and mods
those machines CAN BE extremely reliable !!

Greetings from Croatia )

edit:
UPSSS... I made some offtopic, this is DMD story...ok, I have significantly less experience with
SYS 3 , but there is same (Hamurabi ? ) "law"....

DON'T do "anything" with power ON !!