(Topic ID: 243165)

Why American business torques me off.


By cottonm4

5 months ago



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  • Latest reply 3 months ago by dothedoo
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    There are 220 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 5.
    #51 5 months ago
    Quoted from Ericpinballfan:

    Is this whole thread an analogy for Stern Cabinets? Pay more, get less...

    Actually I just unpacked my Black Knight and the cabinet is nice and sturdy. It has corner braces everywhere and the cabinet bottom is now really nice 3/4" plywood instead of the 1/2" particle board they used to use.

    #52 5 months ago

    Have you noticed ice cream boxes have gotten smaller and smaller, but price stays the same?

    #53 5 months ago
    Quoted from John_I:

    Actually I just unpacked my Black Knight and the cabinet is nice and sturdy. It has corner braces everywhere and the cabinet bottom is now really nice 3/4" plywood instead of the 1/2" particle board they used to use.

    I recently was under the hood of a Munsters, agreed, cabinets seem to be improving with last 2 releases.

    #54 5 months ago

    A9F2E778-4A64-4494-9745-8000611B7EBE (resized).jpeg

    #55 5 months ago
    Quoted from HighVoltage:

    You can join the rest of us indignant consumers over here, ha...
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/consumer-ripoff
    OJ cartons are still shrinking, first from 64oz to 59oz, now they're 52oz, lol...
    It's really dumb, instead of raising the price slightly, they'd rather reconfigure their manufacturing / packaging, which is certainly more costly. But I guess it must make economic sense or they wouldn't do it.

    They downsize because the average consumer mostly looks at the price and not the size.

    And the size change can be hidden with some clever packaging. Like the plastic coffee containers with the molded in handles that take up so much space.

    16 oz of bacon is slowly being replaced with 12 oz packages.

    But a gallon of milk is still a gallon, so far.

    And a quart of oil is still a quart.

    And every time the maker of Snickers comes out with a “new” larger candy bar at a little higher price, not long after the bar starts getting smaller again. But the price stays the same new higher price.

    And now the candy bars are being sold as two smaller bars inside the package with some extra air filling open space.

    I’m too old. I have not been able to bring myself to pay $1.50 for a candy bar. Forget $2.00.

    #56 5 months ago

    Stay on topic. I want to talk more about bleach!

    #57 5 months ago

    I bought a 4 port USB charger at Big Lots today. It rang up at $11, but the price tag on the box said $10. The cashier scanned the bar code on the box initially. When she scanned the bar code on the price tag it rang up correctly. Businesses bank (literally) on you not catching these errors.

    Also, the box said, "4 ports, 4 amps". I've been duped by this before so I opened the box and looked at the back of the charger. It said 3 amps.

    #58 5 months ago
    Quoted from dothedoo:

    Businesses bank (literally) on you not catching these errors.
    Also, the box said, "4 ports, 4 amps". I've been duped by this before so I opened the box and looked at the back of the charger. It said 3 amps.

    Tech market is really bad for playing the uninformed!

    th (resized).jpg
    #59 5 months ago
    Quoted from pinstyle:

    You may be right, but what good are all those choices if 98% of them are poisonous?

    The choice ?? It’s all globalized in America, same brands, same products and same chains. There are few to none local specialties, pseudo little producers.

    Having the choice is the last thought on my list when I do my groceries out here. There is a difference between over abundance and choice.

    #60 5 months ago
    Quoted from pinballlife:

    Stay on topic. I want to talk more about bleach!

    OK. Before I talk about bleach again I would like to talk about antifreeze for your car.

    It used to be when you bought a gallon of antifreeze you were buying a straight gallon of antifreeze.

    100% undiluted antifreeze will not do what it is supposed to do. It has to be diluted with water. For the professional auto mechanic this was not a problem.

    But for Joe Suburb, buying a gallon of antifreeze met locating another container to make up the proper ratio of water-to-antifreeze mix. When Joe finished his job he now had to find space to store the unmixed antifreeze and any mix he might have left over.

    Now, when you go to the parts store you buy a premix of water and antifreeze. Called 50-50 it is ready to pour. No muss. No fuss. Of course, Joe is going to pay a bit more for the convenience but avoiding the hassle-factor makes it a good trade off.

    Now, back to bleach. A real long time ago in one of my college business classes we had a guest speaker. He was the CEO of Purex Bleach Corp.

    After he prattled on for awhile I asked him how did he differentiate his product from the other brands. And I finish my question with, “after all, bleach is bleach”.

    He acknowledged that beach was bleach and that he hoped I would like him enough to buy his product instead of the competition’s bleach.

    He went on to say that they had tried different things to stand out from the competition. They tried selling a concentrated bleach with 12% of the active chemical instead of the normal 6%.

    He said the market did not appreciate the 12% product because consumers did not read the label, thereby using more bleach than necessary. But the worst outcome is the customers were burning holes in their clothes.

    So there you have it. With bleach and antifreeze we pay more and pay for moving water because we don’t want to be bothered with taking the time to mix something from it’s concentrated form.

    #61 5 months ago
    Quoted from cottonm4:

    I’m too old. I have not been able to bring myself to pay $1.50 for a candy bar. Forget $2.00.

    I'd give $5 to get the last five minutes of my life back. Not sure why I read these threads!

    #62 5 months ago
    Quoted from John_I:

    Not sure why I read these threads!

    For Fun!

    #63 5 months ago

    I hate the offers:
    Buy 3 tires get the 4th free

    Buy 1 sock get the 2nd free etc..

    #64 5 months ago

    Just ran into this at the grocery store. A pack of 3 bell peppers was $2.99. Same brand name 6 pack of peppers was $6.99. Theres no sale, you just pay a dollar more to buy a 6 pack

    #65 5 months ago
    Quoted from cottonm4:

    They downsize because the average consumer mostly looks at the price and not the size.
    And the size change can be hidden with some clever packaging. Like the plastic coffee containers with the molded in handles that take up so much space.
    16 oz of bacon is slowly being replaced with 12 oz packages.

    Ha, I already brought up the bacon too...

    Quoted from HighVoltage:

    I'd like to add 59 Fl.Oz. OJ cartons! I guess metric is finally catching on? = 1.75l
    and 12oz packages of bacon! At least this one you can still find 1lb packages.

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/consumer-ripoff#post-4156017

    There is a helpful grocer out here though: on their price tags, Winco puts the price/weight or volume so you can compare without thinking. It's actually not unusual for smaller sizes to be the better value.

    #66 5 months ago
    Quoted from pinstyle:

    My wife reads every label, there is so much poison in the food in the US. Its very difficult to avoid it anymore. Unfortunately everything in the US is a business with very little regard for the end user. For me it is too late, I grew up eating this crap but what we do now is for our kids (and the hope that I actually outlive my parents).

    My wife took us all organic and non-GMO (no hormone, grass fed, etc.) after taking a class and learning how our food is actually grown. The Roundup people and FDA can say it’s safe, but it’s all over our food, and I’ve elected to no longer ingest “roundup residue”.

    A nice benefit is how much better food tastes and I feel better too. Have more energy. It’s real. It’s also real expensive, but if more people demanded it, prices would fall.

    #67 5 months ago

    I partially blame all the food stamp scammers. If everything is free (except to taxpayers) it doesn't matter what it costs. The supply and demand chain is broken at that point. What incentive does say beef producers have to compete and lower costs?

    The result is I can't afford it and I look over and see 3 whole heaping baskets full of "free" steak and expensive food getting loaded in a new escalade. (True story by the way).

    #68 5 months ago
    Quoted from pinballlife:

    Stay on topic. I want to talk more about bleach!

    Do you remember when people were taking new jeans crinkling them up and putting them in a bucket of bleach? Made a neat pattern and after a while they got some cool rips in them because the bleach compromised the denim . Good times! We need to bring that style back .

    #69 5 months ago

    You fail to say in your post who actually made the bottle of bleach it certainly wasn't Walmart they distribute it I have a sneaky hunch if you look at it will not say made in America.

    I personally cannot stand Walmart and we'll never shop there but you can't blame them for selling items that come the way they do.

    Just curious do the pinball manufacturers fall in the same category they have cheapened up everything to save a buck and yet we still keep buying them. Go figure....

    -4
    #70 5 months ago

    Move to another country then please.

    #71 5 months ago
    Quoted from yuriijos:

    Move to another country then please.

    Like the same s*** doesn't happen in another country

    #72 5 months ago
    Quoted from timab2000:

    You fail to say in your post who actually made the bottle of bleach it certainly wasn't Walmart they distribute it I have a sneaky hunch if you look at it will not say made in America.

    Can't vouch for that bottle specifically, though shipping liquids is expensive. I'd be shocked if it wasn't made in North America.

    #73 5 months ago
    Quoted from Travish:

    I partially blame all the food stamp scammers. If everything is free (except to taxpayers) it doesn't matter what it costs. The supply and demand chain is broken at that point. What incentive does say beef producers have to compete and lower costs?
    The result is I can't afford it and I look over and see 3 whole heaping baskets full of "free" steak and expensive food getting loaded in a new escalade. (True story by the way).

    Do you know why no one does anything about the "food stamp scammers"? It's because the food industrial complex all has politicians in their back pockets. More food stamps equals more profit for farmers, suppliers, and all the way down to the big grocery chains. They certainly don't want that gravy train to end. As usual, follow the money. Richie Rich has the most to lose by cracking down on food stamp scammers.

    #74 5 months ago

    SNAP spends 2% of annual Federal budget on Children, Women, Seniors, and disabled. They receive an average of $125.40 a month. This goes out to 44 Million people.

    One Person can earn as AGI , $15,684 annually and may qualify.
    It is not contingent on wealth, and of course wealth can be held by a different legal entity.

    Yes, there is Fraud, estimated at 600 Million. Approx. 2 days of War Budget.

    So, if you can imagine, on ones tax return, you dont pay any Taxes, you could qualify LEGALLY for food stamps.

    (Data not crossed checked by years, +/- 5 years)

    #75 5 months ago

    Hey cottonm4, did you ever get your Mac problem resolved? I know that I and others were trying to help you out on that but from what I recalled, your computer was fairly old and beyond what could be updated.

    #76 5 months ago
    Quoted from timab2000:

    You fail to say in your post who actually made the bottle of bleach it certainly wasn't Walmart they distribute it I have a sneaky hunch if you look at it will not say made in America.
    I personally cannot stand Walmart and we'll never shop there but you can't blame them for selling items that come the way they do.

    Walmart controls almost every aspect of their vendors products that appear on their shelves and if the vendor isn't willing to comply they are dropped as a vendor. They are notorious for this and they get away with it because of their massive buying power.

    So yes, you can blame Walmart, just like every company is responsible for the product they sell on their shelves.

    #77 5 months ago

    Here's one for ya.
    You can buy fish antibiotics in tablet form for 1/4 the price as human antibiotics. They are the same ingredients, same mg. Why are human ones so expensive???

    #78 5 months ago
    Quoted from DBLM:

    Hey cottonm4, did you ever get your Mac problem resolved? I know that I and others were trying to help you out on that but from what I recalled, your computer was fairly old and beyond what could be updated.

    Sort of. It is a long story. Send me a PM if you would like to hear all about

    #79 5 months ago
    Quoted from cottonm4:

    I hate it when a company tries to make me for a fool. What follows is why I don't trust American business. I don't trust any businessman for as far as I can throw him. He has to prove himself.
    Check out this bottle of bleach. Read the label. For $2.67 cents you get 3.78 quarts, or 121 oz, or 3.57 L. What you are not getting is one full U.S. Gallon. Got that burned in? Let's go to the next pic.
    [quoted image]
    Here is a whole shelf of the same bleach. Plus there is a different bottle on the shelf, too. Just to look at these two bottles of bleach sitting side by side you might think the bottles are the same size. I'll answer your question: They are not the same size. But they sure do look like the same size, don't they? Lets go to pic #3
    [quoted image]
    This pic with both bottle side by side shows that:
    1) the blue label is concentrated and Whitens, Disinfects and Deodorizes.
    2) the green label is a cleaning bleach that kills mole and mildew. It Cleans, Disinfects, and Deodorizes.
    And they both kill 99.9% of common household germs.
    But let's look at something else in pic #4
    [quoted image]
    Check out the label. Both bottles are of the same 6.0% concentrate of Sodium Hypochlorite. SH is the active ingredient. It is the stuff that you smell. It is the stuff that will burn holes in your clothes. Other ingredients make up 94% of the product. This other product is water. You know. Water. The same stuff that comes from your kitchen faucet.
    [quoted image]
    Here is another pic of the green bottle. You should notice two things.
    1) The price is only $1.77 per container.
    2) The container is larger. The green label is a full US gallon. And for less money. But most people will not pay attention.
    [quoted image]
    This one is on Walmart since both bottles Great Value branded.
    God bless America.

    ONE Thing that IS typical american (from my point of view) is these large containers (and that shitload of packaging garbage).

    You could shrink it down by 94% if you just remove the water, loose no effectiveness, have less packaging, protect the Environment and have way less weight to carry home... but it "Looks to be a better deal this way" if you put a litte bottle of concentrate next to it.

    #80 5 months ago
    Quoted from Mr_Outlane:

    Tech market is really bad for playing the uninformed!

    How the hell did they get together to begin with ?

    LTG : )
    Disclaimer : Something I ask myself daily in tech support.

    0b472b8ee3a2e92c6eca83672e319346245dc9ae (resized).jpg
    #81 5 months ago
    Quoted from HighVoltage:

    Ha, I already brought up the bacon too...

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/consumer-ripoff#post-4156017
    There is a helpful grocer out here though: on their price tags, Winco puts the price/weight or volume so you can compare without thinking. It's actually not unusual for smaller sizes to be the better value.

    Yeah, I don't trust that either. I was at a grocery store a couple months ago (qfc) comparing prices on orange juice looking at the price per ounce, and happened to glance up and realize that four variations of the same orange juice brand, all exact same volume, all the exact same price, had 4 different values for the price per ounce. I had to look at it like 3 times to figure out I wasn't missing something. it was crazy. so I took out my phone/calculator and did the math myself, one of them was actually right, the other 3 were wrong.

    #82 5 months ago

    A Walmart story I've read some where, years ago.

    An American television manufacturer wanted to sell tvs to W-Mart. They were told their price was to high. So the tv manufacturer closed the plant, moving production to Mexico. Can't remember the facts but 200 or 300 jobs were lost. The plant sat idle, Wal Mart bought the property, and opened a large store, the following year. The majority of the residents boycotted the store.

    Not sure if this an urban myth or not. It could be believable.

    #83 5 months ago
    Quoted from Darcy:

    A Walmart story I've read some where, years ago.
    An American television manufacturer wanted to sell tvs to W-Mart. They were told their price was to high. So the tv manufacturer closed the plant, moving production to Mexico. Can't remember the facts but 200 or 300 jobs were lost. The plant sat idle, Wal Mart bought the property, and opened a large store, the following year. The majority of the residents boycotted the store.
    Not sure if this an urban myth or not. It could be believable.

    I boycott walmart.
    They pay some of the lowest wages for retail workers.
    They are non union across the board, affecting safety in several areas including bad record of fork lift accidents and big rigs.
    They buy bulk subpar products, cheaper to offer returns than buy good merchandise.
    They are a classless operation towards emplyee's and there health benefits are only for full time employee's.
    There so much more, I will stop.
    They suck.

    #84 5 months ago
    Quoted from Ericpinballfan:

    I boycott walmart.
    They pay some of the lowest wages for retail workers.
    They are non union across the board, affecting safety in several areas including bad record of fork lift accidents and big rigs.
    They buy bulk subpar products, cheaper to offer returns than buy good merchandise.
    They are a classless operation towards emplyee's and there health benefits are only for full time employee's.
    There so much more, I will stop.
    They suck.

    Wall Mart opened in Germany, wanted to gain a market share and ruining competition by selling goods underprice at a loss...

    ...wich was quickly forbidden...

    ...so they closed down again countrywide pretty fast.

    (Not sure if not an urban legend but so the story goes. Fact is they closed doors pretty fast.)

    #85 5 months ago

    Why the **** am I writing here?

    Not much going on at the moment, is it? XD

    #86 5 months ago
    Quoted from DS_Nadine:

    Wall Mart opened in Germany, wanted to gain a market share and ruining competition by selling goods underprice at a loss...
    ...wich was quickly forbidden...
    ...so they closed down again countrywide pretty fast.
    (Not sure if not an urban legend but so the story goes. Fact is they closed doors pretty fast.)

    And yet Amazon.de exists?

    #87 5 months ago
    Quoted from mcluvin:

    And yet Amazon.de exists?

    Do/ did they sell underprice?

    They were way more competitive when they were new in the business, that's true.
    Nowadays I first look elsewhere because Amazon has gotten pretty expensive.
    You're not automatically getting a mostly good deal anymore.

    #88 5 months ago
    Quoted from Travish:

    I partially blame all the food stamp scammers. If everything is free (except to taxpayers) it doesn't matter what it costs. The supply and demand chain is broken at that point. What incentive does say beef producers have to compete and lower costs?
    The result is I can't afford it and I look over and see 3 whole heaping baskets full of "free" steak and expensive food getting loaded in a new escalade. (True story by the way).

    I mean, you could do what you're doing.

    As someone that does pricing for retail, it could also just be an oversight. Juggling prices on thousands of items can be difficult. And sometimes, your suppliers make mistakes and charge the wrong amount - so retailers wanting their desired margin end up passing that pricing mistake to customers.

    #89 5 months ago
    Quoted from DS_Nadine:

    Wall Mart opened in Germany, wanted to gain a market share and ruining competition by selling goods underprice at a loss...
    ...wich was quickly forbidden...
    ...so they closed down again countrywide pretty fast.
    (Not sure if not an urban legend but so the story goes. Fact is they closed doors pretty fast.)

    I seem to recall reading about Walmart not doing so well in Germany.

    #90 5 months ago
    Quoted from yuriijos:

    Move to another country then please.

    its just the same everywhere... what would it be different somewhere else ?

    as said above, more than often, i see promotional "family pack" or "economy pack", which are greater than the "normal" pack (at higher price of course)
    and when you simply calculate the price for 1 unit, the normal pack is cheaper than the promotional one...
    people are intellectually lazy (me included), most of the time we dont think further because of X excuses

    welcome to our capitalist society

    #91 5 months ago
    Quoted from RipleYYY:

    its just the same everywhere... what would it be different somewhere else ?
    as said above, more than often, i see promotional "family pack" or "economy pack", which are greater than the "normal" pack (at higher price of course)
    and when you simply calculate the price for 1 unit, the normal pack is cheaper than the promotional one...
    people are intellectually lazy (me included), most of the time we dont think further because of X excuses
    welcome to our capitalist society

    Since a couple of years stores here are obliged to additionally write down the price by weight/ volume/ item. So if you're in front of a couple of different sized items of the same type you still get wich is the cheapest.

    #92 5 months ago

    Couple of years back, our grocery store had a 4-Pack of Cadbury creme eggs on sale for $1.50. Had a big sign next to them on the shelf and everything. You were saving $.25 from the normal price.

    In a giant bin in the middle of the aisle, not five feet away, were individual ones at $.25 each. That cardboard box holding them together sure was expensive.

    #93 5 months ago

    There is no deception here, all the facts are clearly placed on the bottle for comparison shoppers to make an educated decision.

    Then for those of us that don’t care, just pay full Price for Clorox.

    #94 4 months ago
    Quoted from ovfdfireman:

    There is no deception here, all the facts are clearly placed on the bottle for comparison shoppers to make an educated decision.
    Then for those of us that don’t care, just pay full Price for Clorox.

    Sort of like the labels on a pack of cigarettes, All the facts are there: SMOKING WILL KILL YOU. "Ahh...yeah, I'd like two packs of Marlboro and a Powerball ticket".
    ================================

    It all goes to, or goes back to, marketing. In very late 70s and early 80s, generic goods started hitting the shelves. You could buy no-name products in black and white boxes. The stuff sold well but was discontinued.

    What the market researchers discovered was that the wealthier segment of the population was the people who were buying the generic products.
    The other side of the coin was the poorer part of the population was buying the brand name products because they felt a small status bump in that they could afford to buy Libby's canned corn instead of just canned corn. They did not want to be seen at the checkout with their carts loaded up with black and whites. Since the poorer people were buying the brand names there was no point in giving the wealthier people who could afford to pay more a price break.

    Discounted house brands have not gone away, but the B & W labels did not stay around very long.

    The sobering thought is that the economy depends on those who do not care about getting the best price---even when the service for the product is not part of the equation. So Clorox lives to fight another day

    If everybody was a price chiseler no one would make any money. The only reason some companies exist is that there are a lot of suckers to sell to (sort of like me and pinball machines and the parts to fix them ).

    Screen Shot 2019-05-19 at 11.08.52 AM (resized).png

    #95 4 months ago
    Quoted from ovfdfireman:

    just pay full Price for Clorox

    I don't think I have ever bought a bottle of Clorox bleach, used to just by Tide with bleach and then you don't have to worry about it. But even that is getting harder to find for some reason.

    #96 4 months ago

    Let's look at a key contributing factor - most companies are publicly traded and their shareholders demand increased profits each year. Profits are increased by increasing sales or lowering costs. Raising prices often has the effect of lower sales - so lowering cost is often a focus. How do you lower costs? You either lower the quality or you lower the amount of product you supply for the same price. Or lower both.

    Before you get too mad at the shareholders you often have to look in the mirror. Most americans are shareholders somehow_ through pension funds, 401Ks or other investments.

    One side effect of all of this is that the quality of many new products is less than the products they are replacing. Glad to hear Stern is actually improving cabinet quality - wish more companies would see that their customers would be willing to pay a bit more for improved quality.

    #97 4 months ago
    Quoted from pinengineer77:

    Before you get too mad at the shareholders you often have to look in the mirror. Most americans are shareholders somehow_ through pension funds, 401Ks or other investments.

    Since we're all expected to be a mini-Charles Schwab these days instead of someone who just works and collects a defined-benefit pension upon retirement like our dads, we essentially have been forced into rooting against our fellow working man. Heck, your own 401(K) only goes up when the stock market rises. And what's one of the main reasons that companies become more profitable and their shares rise? Shedding employees and holding wages/benefits down.

    #98 4 months ago
    Quoted from pinengineer77:

    Let's look at a key contributing factor - most companies are publicly traded and their shareholders demand increased profits each year. Profits are increased by increasing sales or lowering costs. Raising prices often has the effect of lower sales - so lowering cost is often a focus. How do you lower costs? You either lower the quality or you lower the amount of product you supply for the same price. Or lower both.

    It’s almost like capitalism is a race to the bottom. Who can make the cheapest product that will still sell for profit.

    #99 4 months ago
    Quoted from Luckydogg420:

    It’s almost like capitalism is a race to the bottom. Who can make the cheapest product that will still sell for profit.

    In many (most??) industries, that is where we are today. With some product categories it is difficult or maybe even impossible to find replacement products whose quality rivals a product bought 20 years ago.

    #100 4 months ago

    I was pissed when every beer I drank suddenly dropped from a 12oz bottle to one that was 11.2oz. Now I'm finding that the packing is so poor, you're lucky to get the damn thing in the house before the handles rip off.

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