(Topic ID: 185422)

Why all the hate for Stern Indiana Jones?


By Spencer

3 years ago



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  • 66 posts
  • 48 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by girloveswaffles
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#1 3 years ago

I got to play one today and loved it! I thought the sound clips were great, the 8 ball multi-ball is insane! Sure its straight forward but I could see all my guests wanting to play it first!

I know, personal tastes differ but I don't see why it gets such a bad rap?

#2 3 years ago

Because it's awful. J/K! I think the multiball rocks, but compared to the Williams version, I think Stern just didn't have the same amount of time invested into it (nor the resources). Would have been cool to get Mark Ritchie to design again, but it's by no means a bad game. YMMV

#3 3 years ago

It isn't a bad game at all ... But if given a choice between the Williams Indy and Stern Indy, the Williams one wins hands down ... It's not due to any stupid bias for older Williams stuff (I find Stern's Star Trek to be better than STTNG as a for instance) ... I simply find the first Indy pin a lot more fun.

One nice side effect of people trashing IJ4 when comparing it to IJTPA is that the price remains kind of attractive for those looking for a good Indy themed pin.

#4 3 years ago

because it has crystal skull in it - the movie isn't well liked? It's okay... seems like a lazy design to me. The original Williams is far superior and considered among the top 10 pinball machines of all time. Didn't seem like there needed to be a followup.

#5 3 years ago

You just don't try to redesign perfection.

#6 3 years ago

Because it is a stripped down JP. Cheaper ramps, cheaper toy. Austin Powers has more going on. Poor effort.

#7 3 years ago

I get its not a deep, expert players game but I really liked the actual call-outs from the movies. I really thought it was alot of fun.

#8 3 years ago
Quoted from Spencer:

I get its not a deep, expert players game but I really liked the actual call-outs from the movies. I really thought it was alot of fun.

nobody says it is not fun
but producing a second Indiana Jones game means it is always going to be compared to the first

#9 3 years ago
Quoted from PopBumperPete:

nobody says it is not fun
but producing a second Indiana Jones game means it is always going to be compared to the first

Ok, fair enough.

#10 3 years ago

The code is uninspiring. Hit ramp bunch of times. Hit arc bunch of times, etc.
one of the best examples of "chopping wood".

#11 3 years ago

Shia LaBeouf ruins everything he comes in contact with. After leaving Transformers and Indy swirling in the toilet bowl I have nightmares of him somehow ending up being cast in the Big Trouble in Little China reboot

#12 3 years ago
Quoted from vicjw66:

The code is uninspiring. Hit ramp bunch of times. Hit arc bunch of times, etc.
one of the best examples of "chopping wood".

This. For a novice the rules are straight forward and easy to figure out. The Arc MB is a great toy. But, the problem is the rules for the rest of the pinball community. They are uninspired to say the least. I think I read Borg and team had about 6 months from start to finish to produce this title. That just doesn't leave much time for thought.

#13 3 years ago

Chopping wood at its finest. Great sound tho

#14 3 years ago

The bonus multiplier makes for unbalanced scoring and the movie clips really slow the pace of the game down.

#15 3 years ago
Quoted from SealClubber:

This. For a novice the rules are straight forward and easy to figure out. The Arc MB is a great toy. But, the problem is the rules for the rest of the pinball community. They are uninspired to say the least. I think I read Borg and team had about 6 months from start to finish to produce this title. That just doesn't leave much time for thought.

Yes, agreed with this.

The game is quite straightforward and there isn't much difference between the modes. So, it's like to start one scene you do something a bunch. Then, you do it a bunch more and then you get to the next thing which is basically exactly like the first thing. Then, you do it a bunch more times... and that happens FOUR times for EACH mode.

I actually like the layout and even the gameplay WAY more than the Williams IJ (sorry fans of that, it's just not my cup of tea), and I'm a HUGE Indiana Jones fan, but I could never own it due to how repetitive it is. Having said that, I am oddly drawn to it in arcades when I see it, and will spend a while seeing how far I can get on it when there are games around that I think are better. I feel like if I could ever "beat" the machine and get to the Wizard mode, I'd never care to play it again.

Having said that, the captive ball / scoop mech is one of the most creative toys in all of pinball and one that I absolutely love. I wish it would have been utilized in the code more, and I wish that it would show up on another game. Think about a mode where you have to hit it for it to open and then shoot the ball back into it before it closes? Could do really cool stuff with it.

#16 3 years ago

The code and layout are both awful, that's why it has a bad reputation.

Tastes vary in this hobby but only people who love pretty much every pin or contrarians have anything positive to say about IJ4. One of the worst Sterns.

#17 3 years ago
Quoted from Taygeta:

Tastes vary in this hobby but only people who love pretty much every pin or contrarians have anything positive to say about IJ4. One of the worst Sterns.

I don't think I'm a contrarian when I say that the captive ball scoop is an amazing idea. So was the chest multiball. And the layout I honestly don't find to be that bad.

Eh. I just don't have normal tastes in the hobby, and I'm okay with that.

#18 3 years ago

It blows - everything from a bad era of sterns.

Poor art, terrible dot matrix animations, lame rules, boring pf layout, and of course a pointless 8-ball multi gimmick straight from the worst days of Sega (Apollo 13 anybody?). Just not a very good game and it's lack of popularity despite a great theme should be a tip off that people just don't like it.

Hey it's better than no pinball at all. But it's just not a very memorable effort.

#19 3 years ago

It's a terrible game. The rules are as basic as a Zizzle, the layout is safe to shoot with your eyes closed, it has terrible animation and art, and it's wasting a fantastic license.

It's a game that's so easy that you can always take the GC if you want. It's a matter of how much time you want to spend and how much wood you're in a mood to chop.

#20 3 years ago
Quoted from Taygeta:

The code and layout are both awful, that's why it has a bad reputation.
Tastes vary in this hobby but only people who love pretty much every pin or contrarians have anything positive to say about IJ4. One of the worst Sterns.

Quoted from CrazyLevi:

It blows - everything from a bad era of sterns.
Poor art, terrible dot matrix animations, lame rules, boring pf layout, and of course a pointless 8-ball multi gimmick straight from the worst days of Sega (Apollo 13 anybody?). Just not a very good game and it's lack of popularity despite a great theme should be a tip off that people just don't like it.
Hey it's better than no pinball at all. But it's just not a very memorable effort.

This all pretty much sums up the game. It's just awful!!!

QSS

-5
#21 3 years ago

WAY COOL DUDE! I'll take it over "Dialed In" might as well have made a Commodore 64 pin...haha

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#22 3 years ago

Themer over gamer here 10-4...I guess I just like to work on them more then play them. Kinda like Andretti's mechanic lol But know this when us 1/4" bit driver guys finally get to play a game with the glass on its glorious!

#23 3 years ago

One of the most uninspired rulesets ever. But the Ark multiball is very memorable for beginner players.

The rarely heard tilt callouts is one of the best ever:

#24 3 years ago

Horrific and what seemed like unfinished code. Too bad, the layout is pretty fun - finished code would have made this a much better game. Still, I enjoy an occasional play or two on it once in a while.

I had one, traded it for an SM straight across many years back.

#25 3 years ago

It is probably the worst coded game I've ever played. Sure it's Indiana Jones which is an awesome theme and has some cool looking toys, but it's just very simplistic. It appears that it has like 16 modes, but they are all practically the same. I mean the fourth movie is nothing but hit the ramp x number of times.

People who don't understand pinball love it. Was the most played game by all my friends (nonpinheads). Talk to us after owning it for 3 months, you'll likely be sick of it by then. Definitely not good for a small collection. It's a shame, cuz it's an amazing theme and the layout isn't half bad, just very amateur coding of rules.

#26 3 years ago

If you're an Indy fan it's still good. I don't mind it as is, but picked up the Proc conversion anyway. Easy enough to swap out and gives you 2 games in one cab

#27 3 years ago
Quoted from gmkalos:

WAY COOL DUDE! I'll take it over "Dialed In" might as well have made a Commodore 64 pin...haha

I would actually love a Commodore 64 themed pin. I imagine the modes would include dialing warez BBS's for new games, and running some l33t demos.

#28 3 years ago

Sucks balls. There are targets that do NOTHING. Not even 10 points. The R orbit ends in a scoop. The inserts are terrible at indicating progress. The captive ball area has a little plastic man that turns and, beyond that, is stupid and takes up WAY too much real estate. 8-ball multi is overkill and ridiculous. The rules are Roppy.

#29 3 years ago

I think it's a pretty fun game personally, the arc spitting all the balls out is fun. I could name a few other games that are worse, Rolling Stones blows, Roller Coaster Tycoon or whatever it is just sucks ass too.

#30 3 years ago

I have one and play it for some mindless action. But I will say for parties with Non pinheads it gets the most play. Not intimidating, straight forward, and when that ark opens up people shit their pants. Probably will never sell it for that reason but I have a pretty decent sized collection.

#31 3 years ago

I really like my IJ and I think it is a fun game. It may seem repetitive to some but not to me. The Arc multi-ball is awesome with trying to save all the balls from draining. People try and pick it apart and compare it to the Williams title but really they are apples and oranges. Sometimes having a game with a basic layout and simple rules is a good thing. It is also one of the most played games by guest in my home. I will add that it is in the top 5 games for earnings for operators on location, the theme goes a long way. Haters going to hate

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#32 3 years ago

I've only played it a few times and agree. It was a lot like the movie. It got a bad rep so I never watched it. I ended up buying a box set of all 4 movies. Kids loved the first three movies and wanted to see the fourth. I warned them it was bad but I ended up liking it. Was it the best movie ever? No. Best Indy movie? No. It was not the worst either. Looking at you Temple of Doom. I had the same feelings about the pin. I was expecting it to be dreadful like a bad 90s Gottlieb/Premier. Far from it. It was fun to shoot around. I didn't dive deep into the rules or geek out on it. Not the best pin out there but not the worst. I don't think it's far to compare to the old IJ pin either. They are two totally different pins from different eras in pinball. One at a peak, the other at a low.

#33 3 years ago

My pinball skillz are not competition worthy. I can see the argument for it getting old in a small collection. But i think its a fun game.

Pinside est value of mid to upper 4s seems a bit high. Id consider one if i stumbled across one in the 3s that was in decent shape but only if i had more room.

#34 3 years ago

The DMD was in the new split screen format that few liked with bad animations.

The Arc Multi-ball was great to see at first, but then you realized it was a useless ball dump that instantly battered the playfield and freaked out new owners. A simple to get to one-trick pony to make non-pinheads feel like something cool happened.

This game was whipped out to be in movie theaters. They would not allow Stern to show anything other than the Crystal Skull on the ramp to not reveal the big secret of the movie *** Spoiler Alert *** Aliens. Because they wanted the pin out in time to have in movie theater lobbies.

This bad movie was even put down by the Shia idiot in a staring role. Poor Karen Allen was filmed to [obviously] hide the fact that she had fallen apart over the years. So filled with plot holes and technical flaws it was endless.

So you take a bad movie and whip out a totally uninspired pin. Bad foundation and no way it was gong to stand up to the reputation of the original. The code was done quick and never going to be revisited. This game was thrown out to the public and kicked to the curb.

#35 3 years ago

Agree with Taxman here... this game never really had a fighting chance.

As a owner for a couple years now here is some of my opinions:

Of course, the proverbial incomplete code. Advance scene on skill shot does nothing. Although I don't care about Crystal Skull (still the worst of the franchise by far) the lack of cut scenes in the latter half of the movie - even the big *aliens* reveal. Unbalance scoring on map room.

I still think they should've incorporated one more ramp in the game. Make the Ark smaller, have the Temple of Doom shot be a mine cart ramp (missed the ball there) and have the trap ball scoop be the Last Crusade shot. Fix the redundant "hurry up" orbit shots. Play a different Indy theme while in a certain movie mode.

It's apparent Stern didn't really care about this title after the movie starting getting bad reviews, so they never saw fit to address some of these issues.

#36 3 years ago

I know this is cruel, but here's Derek's review from rgp...

-------------
Must Say Indiana Jones 4 Sterns best game since spidey.

12/10/08 derek

WOF, CSI, and batman are all ok games, but thanks to a fellow rgper I
got to give indy4 another whirl today and really liked it. it did
have the latest softwrae on it; which makes a big difference. Last
time I played t; the game was using version 1.08. This game feels
complete and has great sound and animation from the movie, which has
been lacking big time in recent stern titles. If you have not gotten
a chnace to play this title yet I urge you to give it a try.
Especially if you like mball modes. It has a ton of different mball
modes in it and the 8 ball mball is actually playable too.
derek
ps love the new sound effects also for the extra ball and the changes
made to the temple of doom scoop; they make the game play a lot
faster, and the map room is wicked too.
pss only thing I do not like is the cairo swordsman

#37 3 years ago

Found a video with good review from a fellow pinsider that likes the machine, it goes to show how one man's trash is another man's treasure. I tend to like under rated games so I am bias.

#38 3 years ago

Thanks for the reviews guys, as I expected it was alot of hatred but at least some of it made sense, instead of.... it just sucks.

I'm not a great player, so deep code isn't really important, the overall fun factor is and I really enjoyed my time on it. As others have mentioned, I also feel that when people come over they will love the theme and how easy it is to get into.

#39 3 years ago

Keep hating and kicking it, no sweat here...hope this keeps the price down so I can get another crack at ownership.

I played this when it first came out and thought it was great fun.

Owned one for a bit a few years ago and still, thought it was great fun. People that are saying that it is ''easy'', the approach is simple and straight forward, to get to ''Final Adventure'' and complete everything is very difficult. I came close, not sure that the final mode is even coded in there, but I think it is.

For those that say it's ''wood chopping'' this game reminds me of Metallica personally, and everyone lovessss MET. I've beaten Metallica, so hitting that captive ball over 200 times on a pro is wood chopping at it's finest imo.

IJ4 is a fun game with flaws. Simple as that. The call outs/movie clips/sounds always put a smile on my face. I like the orbits with the spinners, the Arc 8 ball multiball is cool, I like the captive ball temple of doom shot. I can think of many other games that fall under this one. It's really not a bad game at all, but hate on...

And for the record of why the code is the way it is, I asked Borg. He replied
''They gave us nothing for IJ4, it was a licensing issue. Everything had to be passed by them and they were being secretive with the 4th movie and didn't want to reveal too much. It's a good thing that the Crystal Skull wasn't our centerpiece''

#40 3 years ago
Quoted from Spencer:

I got to play one today and loved it! I thought the sound clips were great, the 8 ball multi-ball is insane! Sure its straight forward but I could see all my guests wanting to play it first!
I know, personal tastes differ but I don't see why it gets such a bad rap?

Because it was an almost complete waste of what is an all time great theme. It's just not well done, it's like they stopped midway through development after designing the ark and said "that's it", which from what I have read in interviews may not be too far from the truth. The game released is not the game as Borg intended it. There's a pretty good article about it from an old Gameroom Magazine.

As it sits it's ungodly repetitive now, basically shoot the same couple shots over and over. The sound effects, some rules and the movie integration are unfinished and some of the features like the hurry-ups are just the same with a different name, ants, snakes. There isn't much less inspiring than trying to finish Temple of Doom "2" or Crystal Skull "3". Some of the video rips are almost undecipherable unless you have seen the movies dozens of times. The scoring is horribly unbalanced with the Cairo swordsman and bonus too. You can have a 10 million ball and get 50 million in bonus. It's just not a good game, which is super unfortunate cause the theme is so timeless. I'll play it when I see it on route because I like pinball, but after a few games, I don't have any desire to play it again for a long while. I think the main reason it gets so much hate besides it not being a good game is that it burned the IJ theme, a theme that so many wanted to happen and could have so much more done with it.

#41 3 years ago

We had one at our local arcade, i was super excited when it showed up there. I played it almost daily, but got sick of it after a week or so. The modes were uninspired (shoot ramp 5x, shoot scoop 5x). The bonus multiplier had no limit and could award crazy amounts of points compared to jackpots/modes etc. One of my biggest problems with the game was that once you got the 8-ball multiball, you had to shoot the Ark something like 18 times to get it again (and it has a magnet under the pf in front of it, causing any solid hit on the Ark to get flung out of control, often down a drain). Once i got the grand champion score, i never bothered playing it again.

#42 3 years ago

not sure about having the pinball home...
but as a player, i'm always having fun & good time playing this pin when i meet one

#43 3 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

It blows - everything from a bad era of sterns.
Poor art, terrible dot matrix animations, lame rules, boring pf layout, and of course a pointless 8-ball multi gimmick straight from the worst days of Sega (Apollo 13 anybody?). Just not a very good game and it's lack of popularity despite a great theme should be a tip off that people just don't like it.
Hey it's better than no pinball at all. But it's just not a very memorable effort.

Any time you can come take a dump in a thread, you don't walk, you run.

The reason 13 ball doesn't work well in Apollo is because every shot in that game is extremely narrow. 8 ball works very well in IJ4, lots of room to spread out the shots.

#44 3 years ago
Quoted from shacklersrevenge:

Any time you can come take a dump in a thread, you don't walk, you run.

To be fair, the original poster asked the question, and Levi answered it.

#45 3 years ago

I actually am looking for one. So anyone who is tired of it send me a pm

#46 3 years ago
Quoted from gmkalos:

WAY COOL DUDE! I'll take it over "Dialed In" might as well have made a Commodore 64 pin...haha

I would love a Commodore pin actually

#47 3 years ago

Id buy one for my wife, but she also is the reason I still have a SF2....

#48 3 years ago
Quoted from vicjw66:

To be fair, the original poster asked the question, and Levi answered it.

To be fair, Levi never misses a chance to be critical.

#49 3 years ago

It seems plausible (what lesmanley pointed out), that the game could be "unfinished" according to the designer. Unfinished games are usually obvious in that they flip, but you can clearly see that they could easily be "so much more". IJ4 could fall into this category, IMHO.

But I will agree with goatdan in that the captive ball/scoop mech is a wicked cool feature. I wish they used this more in other games.

#50 3 years ago
Quoted from Taxman:

Poor Karen Allen was filmed to [obviously] hide the fact that she had fallen apart over the years.

Not sure which movie you watched, but I thought Karen Allen looked like she had hardy changed since the first movie. Certainly less change than most actresses after 27 years!

And when watching interviews with the cast, I thought the same thing about her. Wasn't just how she was filmed in the movie.

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