(Topic ID: 26927)

Why AC/DC is so hard and confusing


By phishrace

6 years ago



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  • 118 posts
  • 37 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by smassa
  • Topic is favorited by 6 Pinsiders

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#1 6 years ago

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why people are saying things like...

Quoted from VisitorQ:

I prefer a game with modes and although AC/DC does have them, it's just not the same as most other games. When you complete a mode you really don't know or feel like you did.

or...

Quoted from PinCrush:

I also prefer modes to have an "ending". I want to beat them, to finish the mode with some sort of fanfare and sense of accomplishment.

Simply put, AC/DC has very few audio cues. Players have relied on audio clues for so many years, they've become part of the background. Something that's expected. A player does something good, the game makes a sound confirming to the player that he has made a good shot. That's how it's always been. Sure, the DMD also gives the players feedback, but the player can't look up very much. Audio cues are way more important. Now that AC/DC has taken most all of them away (or made them extremely subtle), people are confused. Now the only clues are the lights on the playfield.

For everyone, the learning curve on this game is longer. Even good players are taking longer to figure it out. A top 20 player recently told me he's shooting the bell with a backhand more after seeing me do it. And I'm not even a top 500 player. For some players, they will never get used to it. Those folks have to have the audio confirmation or it didn't happen.

To me, this is a good thing on a number of levels. Steve and Lyman have rewritten what a music pin should be. They (music pins) should've always been only about the music. Why on earth did it take this long to figure it out? The longer learning curve is awesome. Great for ops. While I enjoy games like IM and Tron, I figured out strategies for those games relatively quick. I still have a lot to learn on AC/DC and I've spent dozens of hours on both a pro and a premium. Monster learning curve.

People have suggested online for years that games need to 'teach' more to get the video game aged folks more up to speed. Now they've taken away a major tool from the player and people like it. Following this logic, games should get harder and harder in the near future. What if the next game didn't have any sounds OR lights? Can't wait!

#2 6 years ago

Maybe more audio cues will be added in future updates. It seems that most are fairly happy with the gameplay, so those types of little details could be the finishing touches.

#3 6 years ago

Game is not hard to understand ,it is hard to get to encore!

#4 6 years ago

I only hope they add a few things like a mini wizard mode, playing both playfields at once, maybe a strobe MB mode. But leave the rest just as it is now. Great game that will only get better.

#5 6 years ago
Quoted from DCFAN:

Maybe more audio cues will be added in future updates.

I don't think so. One clue is that Instant Info gives way more info than other Lyman games. Want to know how many VIP passes you have left? II will tell you. Want to know how many balls you have locked on Spidey? II won't tell you on that game. They've taken away from the player in one area and given back in another. Not an even trade, but I'm not complaining.

#6 6 years ago
Quoted from smassa:

I only hope they add a few things like a mini wizard mode, playing both playfields at once, maybe a strobe MB mode. But leave the rest just as it is now. Great game that will only get better.

I know I'm way late to the party, but I finally played a buddy's new ACDC premium in his basement with the sound cranked and I have to say, this is going to be one of Stern's best games ever. What a rush to play.

As for strobe MB, did you see the LED's in the apron that do nothing.....yet?

#7 6 years ago

it's like their songs, you're not going to find a great story line.

imo, it's a beer drinking bash fest with some objectives.

interactive pinball machine/jukebox.

#8 6 years ago
Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:

I know I'm way late to the party, but I finally played a buddy's new ACDC premium in his basement with the sound cranked and I have to say, this is going to be one of Stern's best games ever. What a rush to play.
As for strobe MB, did you see the LED's in the apron that do nothing.....yet?

Actually the LEDs In the apron do go off when you get an extra ball

#9 6 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Actually the LEDs In the apron do go off when you get an extra ball

And the start of multiball .

#10 6 years ago

I think there is a slight learning curve to the game but it's not hard by any stretch.

#11 6 years ago

There are a lot of audio cues (I'm playing 1.6).

-You get praise from Steve as you do combos
-He tells you when to fire the cannon
-He tells you when you're in hell (lower PF)
-He screams "MULTIBALL" and "Jackpot!"
-He tells you when to shoot the Jukebox to change songs

All of the things you hit have sound cues related to that object...and that changes during songs. For instance, during Thunderstruck, the lightning targets give off a crackle of thunder w/ a lightning flash.

The nuance to the code will take a while to figure out, but the basics are pretty intuitive. Each shot represents a song on the jukebox. It doesn't take too much logic to figure out hitting the bell will light Hells Bells....or the train ramp lights Rock 'N Roll Train.

#12 6 years ago
Quoted from McCune:

And the start of multiball .

They also flash off during some jackpots. But cant wait to see what else they have in store.

#13 6 years ago
Quoted from smassa:

They also flash off during some jackpots. But cant wait to see what else they have in store.

Damn. I must have had one too many beers or spent too much time laughing at the DMD animations.

#14 6 years ago

I think the reason for some confusion is that the mode system does not really work the way it has in the past. Each song is a "mode", but eve that description is not accurate. Since you are always playing a song you never really get out of modes.

AC/DC just presents a different way of scoring points and the strategy involved for each player can be totally different from the next. What I love about AC/DC is that it encourages you to think of ways to score the most points. On other games, I always felt like points were secondary to completing modes. Not on this game.

3 months later
#15 6 years ago

Any AC/DC rulesheet's been made yet? I really want to like the game but have no idea whats lit for what and what to hit when since lights on the game are changing colors all the time during play.

AC/DC will go down as the most confusing game made ever.

#16 6 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Actually the LEDs In the apron do go off when you get an extra ball

Quoted from smassa:

And the start of multiball .

Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:

They also flash off during some jackpots. But cant wait to see what else they have in store.

Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:

Damn. I must have had one too many beers or spent too much time laughing at the DMD animations.

Yea they are hard to see going off because the play field is so well lit, took me many games before I realized they were flashing in game play. I really hope we see a strobe multiball, just those and the bolts flashing would be pretty slick

#17 6 years ago

Yep thats exactly what has been missing from sterns this and the last decade, audio cues.... Took me years to even figure out about the multipliers on SM... The list goes on and on. Sure ACDC is clever (although the playfield is boring) but Stern "LACK' direction... I guess they are catering for the home user that has the option of taking the glass off to figure out what is going on.

#18 6 years ago
Quoted from McCune:

Game is not hard to understand ,it is hard to get to encore!

If you didnt own it (not sure if you do) or you didnt read forums I doubt that you would ever be able to figure it out.. lol maybe you still dont know how to play it

#19 6 years ago

Yeah, but I don't want hear a game say, "Shoot X" a thousand times either. That gets really annoying. Lit shots work for me. The worst example I can think of is the Terminator one.

#20 6 years ago

Meh I used to like Arnies voice "Shot the jackpot" "shoot the super JACKPOT", "Video Mode activated", "Hurry up Go, Run, Go Run"

Yeah now that i think of it this is what makes a game fun....

#21 6 years ago
Quoted from GravitaR:

Any AC/DC rulesheet's been made yet? I really want to like the game but have no idea whats lit for what and what to hit when since lights on the game are changing colors all the time during play.
AC/DC will go down as the most confusing game made ever.

No it won't. It's not that difficult to figure out.

-The colors change based on the mode you're in. That's all the colors mean.

-Watch the playfield when you go through the song selection when you start...each song shows the shot that correlates to that song. Ex.- Left Ramp for Rock & Roll Train, Bell for Hells Bells, etc.

-When you hit that song specific shot, all the "notes" inserts light up. Shoot these to build up your song Jackpot. Spell "FIRE" on the inlane/outlanes to light the cannon & collect your song jackpot

-No matter what song you're in, all the shots still correlate to a song. Ex. - Hit the bell, Hells Bells will light up on the jukebox. Light 8 of the songs on the Jukebox, and you can shoot the ball into it and change your song (mode).

-Multiballs: Ramps light Jam. Target banks light Album. Orbits light Tour. You can stack all 3. A shot to the pulsing cannon from the right ramp will start Multiball.

That's all you need to know, really.

#22 6 years ago

Without Bowen's tutorials I'd be mostly lost on the game. I was lukewarm toward the game until the 1.6 code.

The biggest problem with song selection is it shows you the first shot in a mode, but then you're supposed to shoot other shots after you make the first one to complete the mode and score points. It's somewhat pointless and steers the player in the wrong direction. The color LEDs helped a bit. But I still see players shooting the same shot over and over and wondering why nothing is happening. Imagine if in Tron you lowered the recognizer and shot the disc ONCE, and then you were supposed to shoot everything else but the disc in order to activate disc multi.

#23 6 years ago
Quoted from jonnyo:

The biggest problem with song selection is it shows you the first shot in a mode, but then you're supposed to shoot other shots after you make the first one to complete the mode and score points. It's somewhat pointless and steers the player in the wrong direction. The color LEDs helped a bit. But I still see players shooting the same shot over and over and wondering why nothing is happening.

It steers the player in the direction that scores the most points. Nothing wrong with that. If you want to reach Encore (and score even more points), you need to completely ignore the flashing lights. Complete song requests, switch songs when jukebox is lit. That's it. Ignore the flashing lights.

It's not an easy game for casual players. The theme (music) is the draw for them. The louder it's turned up, the more it earns.

#24 6 years ago

The game must be too confusing for some. Any of you out there with a Premium that are confused by the rules PM me and I'll take it off your hands for 4k.

#25 6 years ago
Quoted from RGR:

Meh I used to like Arnies voice "Shot the jackpot" "shoot the super JACKPOT", "Video Mode activated", "Hurry up Go, Run, Go Run"
Yeah now that i think of it this is what makes a game fun....

Yep. If only AC/DC had a voice that talked to you and told you what to do. Then it would be fun. It could say things like "Shoot the jukebox!" "Fire the canon!" "Do it again!" Someone should really suggest this to Steve Ritchie. Heck, he could even do the voice.

#26 6 years ago

Does this game really confuse people? The instruction card tells you how to activate the multiballs. The color changing lights show you the main shot before a song mode starts. And once you hit it, the inserts light up to show you what other shots you need to make. Those are the basics and don't take long at all to grasp.

Now if you want to rack up a huge score and compete for Grand Champion you'll need to take more time to learn cashing in song jackpots and multipliers. But is this any different from any other game with deep rules? Hell, I still don't understand how to light the bumpers in most Lawlor games but it's never affected my enjoyment of them.

#27 6 years ago

Now that I've watched the videos, it's not as bad as I thought but it would be nice to have a full explanation as to the jackpots. That whole resetting/not resetting based on which album the song came out on is nuts.
Still, you can stick to the basics and have tons of fun.

#28 6 years ago

Does anyone actually know what the lit devil horn shots are for? Do they even do anything?

#29 6 years ago
Quoted from krupa:

Yep. If only AC/DC had a voice that talked to you and told you what to do. Then it would be fun. It could say things like "Shoot the jukebox!" "Fire the canon!" "Do it again!" Someone should really suggest this to Steve Ritchie. Heck, he could even do the voice.

Lol Spot on the machine does tell you what to shoot for

#30 6 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

No it won't. It's not that difficult to figure out.
-The colors change based on the mode you're in. That's all the colors mean.
-Watch the playfield when you go through the song selection when you start...each song shows the shot that correlates to that song. Ex.- Left Ramp for Rock & Roll Train, Bell for Hells Bells, etc.
-When you hit that song specific shot, all the "notes" inserts light up. Shoot these to build up your song Jackpot. Spell "FIRE" on the inlane/outlanes to light the cannon & collect your song jackpot
-No matter what song you're in, all the shots still correlate to a song. Ex. - Hit the bell, Hells Bells will light up on the jukebox. Light 8 of the songs on the Jukebox, and you can shoot the ball into it and change your song (mode).
-Multiballs: Ramps light Jam. Target banks light Album. Orbits light Tour. You can stack all 3. A shot to the pulsing cannon from the right ramp will start Multiball.
That's all you need to know, really.

That's it well written.

#31 6 years ago

Another question. How do you get the bell to flash for a super jackpot? I've done it before, but I have no idea how.

#32 6 years ago
Quoted from gweempose:

Another question. How do you get the bell to flash for a super jackpot?

I don't know, but I got it the other day when I had my 350 mill. game. Was a lot of fun to nail that sucker with the cannon shot.

#33 6 years ago
Quoted from Frax:

Was a lot of fun to nail that sucker with the cannon shot.

Indeed. Talk about pressure ...

#34 6 years ago
Quoted from gweempose:

Another question. How do you get the bell to flash for a super jackpot? I've done it before, but I have no idea how.

By making the required amount of jackpot shots for example jam MB is 20 ramp shots.

#35 6 years ago
Quoted from Gorgar1:

By making the required amount of jackpot shots for example jam MB is 20 ramp shots.

Interesting. So after you hit the super jackpot, do you have to hit 20 ramp shots again to have an opportunity at another super jackpot?

#36 6 years ago
Quoted from gweempose:

Interesting. So after you hit the super jackpot, do you have to hit 20 ramp shots again to have an opportunity at another super jackpot?

Not sure...but - the super jackpot will stay available post multiball as long as you don't lose the ball. You can keep loading it into the cannon to try to get it.

#37 6 years ago
Quoted from krupa:

Yep. If only AC/DC had a voice that talked to you and told you what to do. Then it would be fun. It could say things like "Shoot the jukebox!" "Fire the canon!" "Do it again!" Someone should really suggest this to Steve Ritchie. Heck, he could even do the voice.

I was referring to Sterns in general. Sure Steve tells you what to go for, but if you listened to him all the time like when to the fire the cannon you'll never know whats going on.... lol especially when you hit the bell and he tells you that you missed... Lol makes you think that Steve doesn't even know the rules....

With regards to other games they do not have the audio cues (sure ACDC is diff).. People saying that the rules are not that hard, well we still have people asking questions about this game.. But without getting sidetracked "MORE" audio cues are required in Sterns games to make them more user friendly lets say..

#38 6 years ago

AC/DC has to be the easiest game to understand of the latest Sterns. One of the reasons I like it.

#39 6 years ago

Tell me about the song jackpot during multiball Beepnutz....

#40 6 years ago
Quoted from RGR:

Tell me about the song jackpot during multiball

Spell FIRE three times and it don't matter what is going on in the game ,multiball or not . The cannon will be ready to collect the song jackpot !

Sometimes qualifying the cannon for song jackpot is a bad thing ! It is all about strategy.

#41 6 years ago

Can you get the song jackpot during multiball without loading the cannon???

#42 6 years ago

What's the difference between the three cannon modes?

What do the red devil inserts do in regular play?

#43 6 years ago
Quoted from RGR:

Can you get the song jackpot during multiball without loading the cannon???

Was this a serious question???

#44 6 years ago
Quoted from PinCrush:

What do the red devil inserts do in regular play?

I think the reason why this question is never answered is because nobody knows. I'm guessing that they aren't implemented in the current software, at least not in any meaningful way.

#45 6 years ago
Quoted from RGR:

Can you get the song jackpot during multiball without loading the cannon???

Yes,sort of. The song jackpot value is awarded if you get the album of the song you are playing during album multiball .

If I am playing Hells Bells or Shook me all night long or Back in Black, I will be awarded the value of the song jackpot as a album bonus when I collect the Back in Black album . I am always aware of what album I have collected, so I can make sure I hit the bell for 2X or 3X before I collect the bonus album . It is not uncommon for me to hit 60 mill album bonus during MB .

I am sure that is clear as mud .

Jim

#46 6 years ago
Quoted from McCune:

If I am playing Hells Bells or Shook me all night long or Back in Black, I will be awarded the value of the song jackpot as a album bonus when I collect the Back in Black album . I am always aware of what album I have collected, so I can make sure I hit the bell for 2X or 3X before I collect the bonus album . It is not uncommon for me to hit 60 mill album bonus during MB .

So you are telling me that if you want to fully capitalize on Album multiball, you need to know what songs originally appeared on what album? And people are trying to argue that the ruleset isn't complex ...

#47 6 years ago
Quoted from McCune:

I am sure that is clear as mud .

And how did you figure this out???

#49 6 years ago
Quoted from gweempose:

So you are telling me that if you want to fully capitalize on Album multiball, you need to know what songs originally appeared on what album? And people are trying to argue that the ruleset isn't complex ...

Read above....The Song Jackpot bonus is also available in Tour MB.

#50 6 years ago
Quoted from RGR:

And how did you figure this out???

over 3K games played on my BiB !

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