I think the point is the added game-play that you *don't* get with the Premium/LE, regardless of the toys or rarity.

Add to it that currently some of the Premium features create a negative experience that must rely on the hope of future code fixes.

It ain't the same as with the AC/DC Premium vs. Pro. With that title, you got more with Premium.

Well i feel i have a lot more om my Le...gameplay
is more fun more satisfying...and also
the Art is insane mirror backglass and MOP
decal...i was not going to have the skittles in
my room.

As do I which is why I specifically have been calling out this major difference.

I do this on my LE also...whats th big deal ? Lyman does it a few times in the Le video he made!

As a player first and foremost, I understand the question, but frankly it is impossible to answer with a number.

When you state having money to burn makes the choice understandable, that implies that the choice is to go with the LE. But it still can't answer the question-what are the rules and gameplay worth?

Granted there are some LE games that have significant rule and gameplay changes, but to put a price on just the rules or gameplay? It can't be done. Sure we could make up a number, but that's what it would be-made up. It's not like one game comes with flippers and the other does not where the choice is easy.

Hammers, magnets, spinning disks, moving ramps, crossover ramps, lower playfields, miniplayfields, rotating robots, drop targets, changing insert lamps, diverter gates and special scoring balls etc. etc. is all just icing. They change the rules and gameplay, but both versions of all Pro and LE games are quite playable, yet clearly different. But again, a dollar figure to the gameplay change cannot be assigned. There is no a-la-cart menu. You buy all the extras or stick with the base model.

In short: There is no getting around the fact that the LE/Premium prices are for the package which inlcudes special art, hardware, clear and powder coatings, lighting, sound and of course rule/gameplay differences. It is simply not possible to say the rules and gameplay are worth X and the other features are worth Y. We are well beyond the Black S-M and Gold LOTR days of just paying for art packages and clear coating.

I think by and large it all boils down to: People buy what they like and there is not necessarily logic behind it.

Enjoy and play the heck out of whichever model you own

If you have money to burn and cost is not a factor, I don't think the implication is to go with the LE. It's to go with the better game. (Based on a player's review not a wallet review).

But you bring up valid points on how differently people evaluate what is better.

Not about money....i am a huge fan and i had to get the full gameplay.
I also had to get the MOP decal the Justice ,Hammer and Coffin lockball
i just love dead magnetic and the coffin is awesome Toy.

Lighting is Amazing,appron is Amazin,Spinners are Amazing,Gameplay
with Hammer/Coffin is Amazing,Rising Cross is Amazing,i can go on and on!

Full gamepaly, Full look ,Full Ride...

Wow, one of the best, most thought out statements on these forums. Couldn't agree more.

I really don't see why we have to declare which version is better anyways (Pro vs Premium)? Taste in pins is very subjective, I've been over to people's homes to play their collection and didn't like one pin.. doesn't mean the ones I like are winners over others collections/choices. Everyone buys to their tastes.

Nah its totally different between the two. There's no point trying to argue that its the same on the LE considering I have both in my house and am doing comparisons side by side. It's definitely an easy enough shot on the pro that you can intentionally aim it for ball to snake it ball to sparky. It's a fluke on the LE. Plus many of the lock shots don't even register on the LE.

If I could get a premium and redo the lock with no hammer and a captive ball, I'd do that. In fact, I might take a look at that now by testing disabling the hammer

I am sorry to argue with ya man, but i just now finished play 2 balls on my LE and done that 5 times
3 registered hits and into Snake and 2 registered hits and then Sparky...

I did a combo (registered Newton Block) and started the Sparky multiball!

The only thing is the straight shots to the Newton that does not register,i just wrote
stern about that!

Once upon a time, there was one version of a Stern title.

Then Stern gave us LE's that were limited and only contained special art (e.g. Red SM vs. Black SM). Not much for players to discuss

Now that the Pro and Premium/LE's have significant differences in terms of play, it's really no different than talking about 2 different games (which we do all the time!). This is why there is so much discussion...it would be silly to assume that just because a pin costs more and has more toys that it plays better. Look @ WOZ...it is the most beautiful, richly made pin ever. Not many people debate this...what they debate is the "fun factor". Another example is IM...one of Stern's most cheaply built, most fun titles! (my NimblePin version is coming tomorrow...can't wait

I haven't played MET LE yet. I've had the Pro a week now and I'm very happy with it (even with early software). If I end up loving the title and preferring the Premium/LE gameplay, I will likely go with a Pinball Refinery Premium...I just don't dig the trim on the LE and Pinball Refinery seems to do great work.

I think this pretty much sums it up.
Terry.

OK, that's what I'm calling it from now on! Perfect.
Terry.

i think That is how Stern calls it in the owner manual!

The fact that you're arguing indicates that you haven't really compared both. It's not a matter of if there's a difference here. There is - a big one. It's whether or not the difference matters to the game owner. To me, the difference is huge and it matters a lot.

I did not know this either. Just like Tron. Thanks!

Have a question for people since I played a premium it was lit up VERY WELL!! looked like no other machine it was so bright, but not blinding bright. Now i want to know is the pro model this bright as well or not? and if not is it just a matter of replacing with good LED's? Does anyone know what type of LEDs are in the premium? I noticed that there are quite a few spotlight on the machine placed in right spots as well so this machine just gets very bright.

Same here. What I do notice though is if it does activate the magnet and doesn't catch the ball, it goes through some kind of reset and then can take several more tries before the magnet can activate again. But I still get coffin multiball, as I should.

Exactly, you asked for opinion's, and none of them are invalid. Unless someone is stating something as fact when it is not, in which case it's just a lie. Both machines are fantastic, I just happen to prefer the PRO, which is a first for me btw. I seriously would get an LE/Prem if the Hammer used a cap ball and didn't obstruct so much of the PF. I like the openness on the PRO design, it reminds me of AFM and many other fantastic open fan layouts. I am a pinball player first and a collector second, which is why the PRO has my vote in this release. Though, not to lie, if there is a way to swap the hammer for a cap ball and I can instead mount the hammer as a non-interactive toy, I might just do that.

I'm interested in knowing this as well as I have a Pro and my friend an LE and his lights seemed extremely bright compared to mine. I put all LED's in mine along with the LED flashers so I'm presuming the Premiums and LE's have super brights or something in them. I did notice 3 bulbs in the area beside the flippers as well on his LE so that also makes a difference where as on my Pro it only has two in each of those sections. I may try some of the super brights myself to try and brighten it up a bit.