I'm sure it will earn great. WoZ is there too and it was the best earner on the few occasions that it wasn't broken.

Nailed it! Awesome right up!

TH looks like a more fun pin then GB. I played it one time. Hope to play Ghostbusters soon at MGC. I might change my mind after that.

I do think GB is one of Stern's finest efforts. It's all opinion of course. I think LOTR and Tron get plenty of hype themselves. Far from my favorite pins and not the most attractive. GB lived up to the hype for me. Looks absolutely fantastic and was really fun to play. That's not hype, that's a great pin.

Played both at the Ohio Show. Was NOT impressed with the Hobbit. ghostBusters was a very fun game.

Have you seen under the PF? You cannot possibly fit more.

I actually could have done with less pop up targets.

Short assessment based on playtesting.

You cannot properly evaluate both machines together at this time, it is a bit premature.

GB (and especially the premium/LE games) has not been released. The code was incomplete and kinks were being worked out on mechanical design for production.

TH has its own share of problems that were not addressed in the lengthy design period, and has given private buyers and operators the "jitters".

As it stands right now, it *looks* like GB will push TH into second place based on "fun factor", code completion, and gameplay including considerations such as mass appeal under the production run even if the general public are not old school GB fans.

JJP has some work to do in order to gain back some of the current ebb of interest, and start cranking on the code, address a modification kit for stuck ball areas, and ramp protection. If not, I see my prediction becoming reality, even if the GB code is a little shaky, because it really is dependent on how noticeable the issues may be overall to average non-pinball players not just collectors.

I have played both several times. I pick GB...
Yes, I have seen well code this, code that. problems this problems that. However, based on what I played and they presented
GB still rules. They are both going to have their issues but lets be real I haven't found a game yet without issues.

That's nice and all but that's not part of the game. Could make and wide body smaller if you take something out

There's a scene in "Planes, Trains, and Automobiles" when Steve Martin starts singing "Three in a Fountain" and no joins in. Then John Candy signs "Fintstones" and everyone is singing. Hobbit is like "Three Coins" - a really deep, award winning song brilliantly composed while the "Flintstones" theme was probably written on the back of a bar napkin. In this case I'm going to say "Yabba Dabba Doo! and go with GB. If you want something deeper go with Hobbit. Play both then decide. I've got to say JJP support has been great with my WOZ and Hobbit will improve with time, as WOZ has.

Kind of seems that Hobbit failed at the basic level of having a great playfield design.

From there , they have a fantastic looking game but they are struggling to overcome the basic p/f design.

GB sounds like it is fast and fun, fun, fun.

GB got the basics right but still has a dated display. ( cheaper BOM ).

So, GB has got it right bottom up and Hobbit has it right from top down. ( more expensive BOM ).

Overall the bottom up GB seems like it is going to be the winner as consensus seems to be it is more fun to play.

he wanted to say that the layout as it has been designed reminds more a game in a standard size than a widebody whatever the mechs under the playfield are taking place. ans i totally agree with him

I think they are two different games for two different players. TH is great to look at, lots of attention to detail. That being said it is a wide body which will never be as fast.

GB may not be as beautiful to look at but is a fun fast playing game that keeps you coming back for more and more.

Decide what player you are and pick the one that suites you best.

Replying back to the person who questioned if JJP was in trouble if the TH flops. I dont think so. If I was the investors and saw TH flop, I would think to myself that was before I stepped in and too many things were already in motion that I had no control of. If I was an investor, I would stick through to oversee full production of the next game. Let that be the litmus test to see how JJP will do. If they can have a hit similar to WOZ, it should be smooth sailing, but if the third game is a fail and or similar issues happen like they did with TH, then they may really be in trouble.

The pop up head targets take up a lot of playfield realestate. How is that not part of the game?

Playing "fast" is the most overrated, overused and misused term in pinball.

An overall great pin is what matters most.

I just sold my beautiful CCC because of long ball times.

I'm debating on dumping my Hobbit based on slow playing. Different strokes for different folkes.

May entertain offers for my TH LE that is suppose to ship in May.

I have played probably 50 games on ghost busters pro. It's one hell of a game. Fast and furious. Tight shots..shots that instantly drain if you miss. Great call outs and stereo sound. I had the luxury of not having a huge crowd around. Including myself and Trent there was a grand total of 8 people. Thanks to Trent for rolling it in the SBCC before PAPA !,We got to play it for about 14 hours.

More than "Flow?"

Playing "fast" is the most overrated, overused and misused term in pinball.
An overall great pin is what matters most.

I played them both...and I don't really like -either- of 'em!

Both are visually impressive in their own ways, but the gameplay doesn't do it for me on either machine. I liked Hobbit's orbit/spinner situation, but that was the only "shot" that had the juice. The pop-ups are cool and satisfying at first, but they get old when you're trying to shoot ramps. GB was Brick City for me; the shots are extremely narrow. It's like an entire game of Black Widow shots. I'm not a great player, but I certainly don't suck, and I couldn't get anything going on GB.

I also feel completely robbed by GB's inlane/outlane situation. It's like friggin' Plinko. A shot headed for the inner-most inlane can easily catch a metal guide (all the same height) and bounce it's way out. It's maddening. The flipper gap I'm fine with, but the inlane/outlane design feels like a big mistake.

If I have to pick a winner between the two, I have to vote Hobbit.

Put "flow" right up there too, and "clunky".

And this one from Hank! I thought "long ball times" meant you were just a good pinball player? Some great pins have "long ball times".

Never understood or agreed with the thinking on that one either.

Man I'd give my left nut for a beautiful CCC.

why this pin is great?

some people would answer it's because it's fast, because you can hit in a row several shots etc or others would answer that it's the reverse

So that is not overrated it is a just a way and a criterion to rate well or bad a pin. "tous les gouts et les couleurs sont dans la nature" as we say in France.

It might be misused often and confused with "easy shots", but I don't think it's overrated. To me speed (time until the ball is back at the flippers) and flow (layout that supports seamless consecutive combinations of different shots) have become the most important factors over the years when looking for a new pin.

I need some basic diversity in my collection, and I do have a TZ I enjoy (especially since I had it clearcoated and it's fast as hell ).
But ask me which games I really love, then that's MB, TS, AFM, ST LE...games with an emphasis on speed and combos.

Centaur is a game I truly love to look at, one of the prettiest games of all times, and I think the rules are spot on - it is an overall great pin. But still I don't have much fun playing it because it's so floaty and slow.

I feel a bit like - ok, I've learnt to catch/trap the ball, aim at things and hit them, but now take me to the next level of hitting consecutive shots without trapping. And then add even more spice by reducing the time until the next shot is necessary!

Keep seeing some negativity towards widebodies but I see that widebodies do really well in the pinside rankings considering how few of them there are, compared to regular machines...
Personally, all things being equal, I prefer the widebodies as they usually give you extra features (or shots) that don't need to get shoehorned in as they would into a regular machine, and they are usually more interesting to look at and can tell more of a story.
As far as speed is concerned, just because it's a widebody it doesn't mean its slow, it's all based on design. Sure, on average, the widebody will have more surface area and the ball will have to travel a little farther to hit the sides but the ball is traveling at the same speed (same flipper coils right?) Heck if you want more bouncy speed, build a machine in a shoe box and watch it ricochet around side to side until your eyes bleed...
Widebodies just have a different aura about themselves, like a quiet confidence...

I've played both. Both have too much crap going on. Liked neither.

It's sad pinball is getting away from what it was to what it's becoming.

That's not the way people think these days...sadly. Widebody or EM = slow to these Stern kids.

Sorry your sad about it, I think it's awesome!

Man I already sold it. I think I could have auctioned your left nut for more than I sold it for.

We agree on WPT. I had LOTR, I just can only own 1-3long ball time games. TSPP has been with me for 5 years same with IJ. I can have another game like this, but CCC was 30-45 minutes a game. Was just too long. If I sell TH I may go after JM or Flash Gordon.

You sure he has one?

Yeah I do, I have to get it back from my wife first.

So that's a no then.

At least I have one nut left. Trophy has both of yours!

I had them mounted so they'd finally be useful.

Shwetty

Finally played a gb at mgc. We have a hobbit on route so I've gotten some good time on it. My answer is apples and oranges. They are two completely different beasts. They play different, feel different and are priced different. To be completely fair I think both are exceptional games. The bar has been raised and we are spoiled to get such great games right next to each other.

If you like the old mode based Williams style games. The Hobbits for you. Obviously stern has its own style as of the last handful of years and the GB follows suit and is a major step up for stern.

If I had to pick one.... Well luckily I don't have to. I ordered GB today. They will live side by side in harmony.

As with WOZ...

Hobbit is beautiful, well made, deep rules, lots of toys. $8000 today and 10k by Christmas.

GB is fun.

Fun wins!

Going forward trolls will be now called "Kanedas" on all new machines.

Played both at MGC this weekend , I prefer Ghostbusters . But that doesn't mean you'll feel the same way .

I also played Rob Zombie and liked it better than Ghostbusters or Hobbit .

Been playing Hobbit on location for almost a month.
Very fun game - but plagued with issues, many of which will not get any better.
Bad left ramp diverter (real bad), troll design has too much empty space and promotes tons of ball jamming, troll errors-lots of them, drop target errors, and more mechanics under the playfield than some aircraft.
You just cannot charge what JJP charges and create a pin that will be a constant maintenance nightmare.

Played Ghostbusters at PAPA last weekend, and was extremely impressed--much more than I thought I would be.
Tons of shots, many narrow-hard shots, terrific flow, beautiful playfield--very old school original pinball looking. The center drain space is about 1/4" wider than other pins, making it much harder (see GOT was too easy out of the gate, and Stern had enough of the operator complaints).
This was only a PRO prototype also.
The added features of the Premium, if they work correctly, will make GB the clear winner.

The Hobbit cannot be properly judged until the game is played with more mature code. The games code has already greatly improved since 1.01 was released last week.

I thought the Hobbit was boring and slow until I finally played it on location last week and then when I saw the video below with the game running the latest code. The Hobbit is going to turn out to be a great game. My opinion of it has changed 180 degrees since I played it over a year ago. The amount of rules, audio effects and original music being put into the game is incredible and we really haven't seen anything yet.

Also, during the hour or so that some friends and I played the game on location (running .80x code at the time) we didn't encounter any issues with the left ramp divertor (worked perfectly) or with stuck balls at the pop ups. Keith Johnson did add a fix to the 1.01 code update that resolved stuck balls at the pop ups.

What surprised me the most about The Hobbit video below is all of the unique and cool gameplay elements Keith is programming into the game. The ball save mini game where you use the lockdown bar button is cool as is the ability to control how much power goes to the kickback along side a cool animation on the screen.

I'm now planning on buying both games after giving The Hobbit another chance.

If there's one knock against Ghosbusters its that their LE offering pales in comparison to The Hobbit LE and the Smaug SE edition. JJP is offering high quality hammered powder coated armor on the LE / SE model and invisiglass glass is included as well. The green paint job on GB LE is just that...green paint, it's not even a high quality metallic green powder coat that pops sadly.

Overall I think both GB and TH are going to be incredible games and I can't wait to get both.

It looks impressive. Better than I thought but I watch the gameplay vid and in 5 minutes I'd think I'd be able to tell how a mode was started (was one?) and how multiball started. Looks like "shoot the ramps all day."

I understand rules are young but I just don't see the traditional pinball clues you need.

Vs. Ghostbusters there's no comparison. Look at gameplay. JJP is lucky they have buyers that are on the hook. Since they're on the hook, they become defenders of the game. It's only natural. #3rdFlipperProblems

I played the hobbit several times and didn't pay much attention to the color or quality of the armor but the game play left me flat. I waited in line twice to play it at the last show and I had no desire to wait a 3rd time, no powder coating job is gunna change that.

Disagree. After 3-4 years in the works (and a 1+ delay), I think its more than reasonable to expect a mature release, certainly worthy of critique.

The game looks and sounds beautiful, but I was still disappointed in the lack of callouts STILL in what they are calling a one dot oh release.

I "get" the delay to rework the art (its amazingly better), but can't for the life of me understand how the delay didn't allow the code to leapfrog into a MUCH more refined state. Only thing that makes sense is:
1. They didn't REALLY have any intention of releasing a game in 2014 (or 2015!) and as such, the code was just limping along at that time, or
2. The put the whole development on pause while they reworked the PF art, or
3. They shutdown dev for a LONG while as they waiting for more funding.

Anyways, I think its fair game to measure the game as it ships.

Played both back-to-back at MGC.

GB Pro was a lot of fun to shoot. Modes were easy to understand, and I even got a "Mass Hysteria" multi-ball that reversed the flippers. We'll be buying one.

Hobbit? Boooooooring. It's basically WPT with no upper playfield and MM trolls instead. Code doesn't save an empty playfield.

Later,
EV

Hobbit getting roasted all round. Will be interesting to see what a Hobbit Vs GOT or GB thread would look like in 3 years time or if the Hobbit is tainted forever in some peoples minds because of the preorder mess.

Couldn't agree more. I played it at a tournament and had a killer game (got the GC score). After my killer game, I didn't feel exhilarated or excited in any way. Felt like "chopping wood". Got the GC on my AC/DC recently and had a blast.

Hobbit is a beauty to look at and the LCD images are awesome. Unfortunately, just like a movie, great CG images don't make a movie sparkle! I think JJP is building beautiful pinball machines that lack synergy. I wish I felt differently, because I'd love to own one. When they build a machine that's exhilarating, I'll bite.

As a JJP fan, unfortunately I have to agree with you. There was a shooting whitewood more than 2 years ago, so I had also expected it to arrive with more complete code. Couple that Jack saying at shows how far along the software was, and it leads to disappointment. With all this time, whatever is on the machines when they shipped is the software that is currently there to be judged.

And I do the same thing with Stern. I don't judge a game on what will be there a year after release, I judge it when the game is available to play in Production form. Personally I think it hurts both companies when they can't strike when the iron is hot. MET ended up being a great game... after a year. It was a good seller, but I really think it would have sold more with solid code earlier. It took me a lot longer to come around on it after a year wait. Once a game is established, even if it becomes great, the impression it leaves at release sticks.

I like Hobbit as a tournament game and casual play game.
I finally get to play at least GB pro Saturday!