MET is a great pin, but it also lacks upgrades such as color LCD and Flipper Fidelity speakers that RZ gets. Ultimately a direct comparison doesn't really matter all that much... throwing in extra ramps, toys, and mechs is not a guarantee of increasing the fun factor. I have games I paid $500 for that are more fun than ones costing $5000.

In my post I said actual toys and mechs which why I mentioned the other stuff . Im not trying to hate on anything or argue with you at all but its natural they didn't put as much into the actual gameplay and design bc alot of the budget is in the license , art and display . Imo amh has more into the actual play field then the art , no license and display ,it only makes sense. I went to buy a amh this week for a pretty good price considering what ones on here are listed for but after really looking it over and checking out under the hood im not sure its for me and worth 6-6500 . Anyhow im not going to be in on rz even if I was called, so gl to all who get the new pin over the next few years . Ill be looking to check it out at a show .

Double post

Lol thats funny coming from you ...

Stern Met pro is probably best pro Stern have ever done. Yes, probably does offer more value.

RZ is more of a gamble but if all goes well, it will depreciate way less than a Stern and may go up in value due to being such a niche collectable.

All this won't be known really until all 300 done and dusted!

Waiting to see how things fall, I was late to the party with sending my "put me on the wait list" 8/13 @ 9:08am. I was told I was 130th on the wait list "430 overall". While I'm hoping for the best I don't see 130 people out of the 1st 300 passing.

All 300 will sell regardless of how many original preorder-ers back out. $10k by Christmas (2k16)

Charlie has already said that RZ has a lot more mechs (coils, etc.) than AMH, so either he's lying or you're dead wrong. I assume it's the latter.

we're going to have to weigh them both. i hear the better games weigh more.

Unfinished codes at launch are unacceptable.

Then demolition man must be one of the best games ever as that is one heavy pin.

Judge Dredd's even better! "

Haunted House is even better!

SafeCracker is the KING of games.

A giant slab of rock with some flippers, bumpers, and shots drawn on it would clearly be the best pin ever made!

Only if a hellcat was underneath it.

This is another diversion. I completely understand that but all I am talking about is the quality of the machine vs the cost of the machine. I don't care that it cost more to make less games. That is not part of my argument, the only thing I am talking about is the quality of the materials and the actual build of the machine.

Completely ignoring the fact that I HAVE been under an AMH working on them with 100% direct personal experience as has bigd1979. It's pretty annoying how some people try telling me my personal experiences aren't what I witnessed. See how that works both ways? My opinions are FACTS on the games I've been in touch with and Bigd1979's opinions are FACTS on the game that he went to see to potentially buy. You can't argue that. I have not argued on RZ, just stating that with my experience of AMH I would never buy RZ until I at least saw one in person to see that it was more up to par on the things that concern me when buying a machine. I do also love how people are "haters" because we have a difference of opinions. This is a topic about being in on a new game and I stated I was out for the reasons I expressed which is fully in line with the thread. I elaborated because it was asked of me. You also don't see me in AMH threads talking crap about them nor AMH for sale threads but maybe I should start to if I'm going to be labeled as a Spooky hater now. Thought I made it pretty clear that I do like Spooky and what they are doing. My concern is with the quality of the product vs the cost being charged not my faith in them as a company.

Pretty sure nobody has even remotely made that argument. But it is pinside. I'm not surprised that we are now going to go down that path.

Calm down thats just a joke.

Your statement had direct dollar figures in it though, so I don't think of it as a diversion. If you said that it had more issues than you expected and you won't get another until you know that has been cleared up, that's fine. Stern has set the bar VERY high with how well their games work out of the box, whether people admit it or not. AMH is like I said, like a early to mid 90s game that has a few issues crop up early on. And, when you think about how this is their first production design, I don't see a few issues as much of a problem at all.

Heck, they have changed things in production from when they started to now to address quality issues.

But then again, you must understand and accept the economy of scale idea. I don't think that you can make a machine in a small quantity with a build quality higher than what they are doing. The choices are either to charge more for it (I'm guessing you wouldn't like that based one your comments before about cost) or to cut features from it (which I'm guessing the majority of people buying wouldn't want). If I have to pop the hood and fit a screw whose hot-glue came loose every couple months, to me that's worth $500 or so.

Besides that, even recently we've had stuff from other manufacturers. Offhand, I can think of the disc issue on X-Men LE from Stern and the LED lighting board issue from JJP on WOZ. These problems are still minor compared to what was going on in the mid-90s from other companies. I'd say though that the above issues are equal or worse than any issue that you noted that AMH had or has. The only build issue I see with AMH is if you're routing it and the servos go out because they aren't necessarily built to do what they are doing in there, that sucks - but Ben already addressed that particular issue, and how many of these are really going on route anyway?

There is no way I expect to see Spooky make a RZ style game below the cost of current Stern Pros.

says the guy who owns a Stern Kiss Pro

I'm not a hater. I think what Spooky is doing is terrific and I'd not hesitate to buy from them. But I just gave my opinion that their games look like a home brew game in some ways, not all. Home brew doesn't mean bad. But there's more R&D and experience and uniformity behind a Stern pro game and I don't think they should be looked down on either like some people do, dismiss Stern as inferior.

I never took a Spooky game apart or dug into the innards like others have. I just made an observation that their products appear as if they're put together in a basement with minimum of overhead and some areas look less polished than others and that a Stern pro overall is probably more refined and finished product (some more than others obviously).

Does RZ come with a shaker motor or is it just coded for a shaker like AMH? Would love to see this become a standard feature in all their games. ... now back to your regular scheduled WWE cage match ... :change_channel:

My MET Pro has ColorDMD, FF speakers and a shaker, and I haven't crossed the $5300 mark yet. But I will say this: RZ and MET are the top 2 pins since Y2K in terms of art. I think Spooky hit it out of the park with the RZ art package.

I think Spooky are way off in theme with this one.
I could think of a few worse themes than this but not many.

I don't get this. An art "package" is more than just cabinet and translite. I know art is a subjective thing, but I can't help but think if Stern had announced RZ instead of Spooky, the playfield would have received a much harsher response.

Every game announced receives a harsh response.

Some harsher than others. I think Spooky's games are treated with a bit of kid gloves. Maybe because they are well liked and seen as the little guy trying to make good.

It did receive harsh criticism. It sucks compared to the rest of the game. But Charlie spoke up and said they aren't doing anything about it.
That's how you quiet the critics. You're either in or out. It's done.

You've been around for the reveals of GOT and the first Hobbit playfield and call what RZ received harsh?

In those two cases JJP and Stern did significant rework on the playfield art as a result of the criticism. I suppose that's the difference between a tiny captive audience and a desire to sell a lot more.

Too bad spooky didn't follow in their steps. It would have made me much more comfortable.
It also would Have kept more people on board. Not that it matters because it appears they'll all sell anyway.

Actually not that many (1/3 according to your poll, which is line with what I expected).
But a Pinside poll is not very reliable as everyone can vote - not only people on the Spooky list -.

Read somewhere the back out rate was actually lower (20% ?).

Out. They failed to get me a LE. I was never notified being a supporter of AMH early on #33. Disappointed. Getting Ghostbusters LE.

Thats 1 more for someone else on the list

You failed to get you an LE

I definitely don't pull punches, and if I didn't like the playfield art, I'd say so. I thought the art on AMH was "meh"; this is much better IMHO.

The cabinet art on RZ this blows away AMH. But the playfield... not so sure about that. I think I prefer AMH. Kinda fits the tone of the machine.

If one of the following was as great as the cab art and translight I would be in:
1) playfield art
2) playfield layout

It cost zero to get on a list. It cost $1000 to actually put some skin in the game. Does it surprise anyone? I gather Charlie thought more were going to pass. Real commitments have exceeded his expectations. So, there ya go.

I have the 12th built AMH. I thought fo shizzle I was in on an LE. I am getting the standard. I have no idea what the criteria were for getting on what list. I think it was quickest emailer. I think the only thing being an AMH purchaser got you was a spot. and if you were quick, an LE spot
. I still committed. Darn 1st world problems for us grown adult men (and women.. )

Exactly. Being *in* cost nothing more than an email. The fact that 5 out of 6 people who were *in* for $0.00 stayed in is a huge statement. No one on the list is really *backing out* since they had nothing more to back out of than an *I'm interested* email.
Terry.

Your poll doesn't really match up to what Spooky is reporting. Then again you got your answer from Aurich, and that's all that really matters.

Was 41st in on AMH and was totally bummed to not get offered an LE. But still in on a standard.

i'm in for standard.

I will soon own a AMH, waiting for Aussie ones to be made. I emailed KT on the 16th June, asking if they would be shipping to Aust. When she replied yes I was straight in, asked for an LE but they were already spoken for, so I went with a standard.
I did not expect to get an LE just because I was in on AMH early! I appreciate Spooky allowing AMH purchases to have a spot for RZ otherwise I may have missed out......that's how I look at it. So I'm pumped, not dirty I missed out on an LE, just to have the chance to own one.
It's only pinball, a lot on this thread need to chill out. "Be excellent to each other" sorry watched Bill and Ted last night.

Actually I don't think so, what he implied is that he never got on the list because he was "never notified" (no one was notified).

If the LE was a thank you to the AMH buyers, why didn't Spooky say thanks by giving every AMH buyer the opportunity at an LE? No hurt feelings and at the most..... 150 LE's.

I barley have enough time to read pinside. Simply wasn't available to send an email for an LE. In support of Spooky Pinball, I told KT that I was in on their next game long before it was even known.

Oh we'll, I'm happy to get a game. Hopefully I'll be able to pickup a LE backglass. That's all I'm really after. The chance to switch them up every now and then really appeals to me.

I think it was silly to have an LE at all.

Surely 300 is limited as it is.

Now you have people pissed they didn't get an "LE". (First world problem there...)

IMO it would have been better to offer options...
- Dragula translite signed by artist + $200 (only available to purchasers)
- color trim + $200

That sort of thing.

rd