(Topic ID: 146919)

Who's In / Out on Rob Zombie (POLL)


By kaneda

3 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 182 posts
  • 86 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by Boxedbeef
  • Topic is favorited by 4 Pinsiders

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Topic poll

“Are you In or Out for RZ?”

  • Hell Fucking Yeah I'm In 100 votes
    47%
  • Had to Back Out 50 votes
    24%
  • Not sure 39 votes
    18%
  • On the wait list and praying. 23 votes
    11%

(212 votes by 0 Pinsiders)

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There are 182 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 4.
#54 3 years ago
Quoted from 85vett:

Sorry if this has been posted already. I haven't been following most of the RZ threads as I'm not "In" on it but figured I'd pop back in here one more time to share this just in case it hasn't been posted.
To re-iterate my feelings of why I am not "In":
- Will need solid code. Spooky nailed AMH with code but I'm burnt in the code department. No longer buying until I see finished (or at least almost finished) code
- Theme is not a must have for me
- Was not impressed with the build quality of AMH. I know I will get flack for this but it's true in my eyes. I felt a lot of corners were cut and for the price it was bothersome to me as well as the owner of said game. Spooky stated they were upping that aspect on their next games though but we wont know that until production games ship.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/y3qZSQWic5g?autoplay=1&rel=0

I agree with the build quality as I went and looked at a amh this week to purchase and I can understand why you said that .. still tho fun pin and awesome effort for a first pin . I stil may get one even if its not built like a say stern or jjp pin

#55 3 years ago

Where is the never in a million years option?

#56 3 years ago
Quoted from davewtf:

you are probably right, rusty. Just so there is no confusion, I am not trying to pee on your parade or insinuate the game will not be great. There just isn't enough there for me to justify buying it. I just value $6000 more than some of you do. I'm a tightwad.

I know Dave. It's stupid money for me too but I decided I am never going to have the high dollar car or any of that stuff and you only live once. If my family didn't have everything they needed and more I wouldn't be thinking of it. My comment was more along the lines of, Dave changes his mind about pinball quite often.

#57 3 years ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

I agree with the build quality as I went and looked at a amh this week to purchase and I can understand why you said that .. still tho fun pin and awesome effort for a first pin . I stil may get one even if its not built like a say stern or jjp pin

Care to elaborate?

I mean some of the stuff on the latest Sterns is cheap as chips!

I had an XMLE that had p/f wear after 100 plays that was worse than my BSD that had 40000 plays....

#58 3 years ago
Quoted from calprog:

I did not know that. Thanks for the information. Spooky told me that buyers of AMH were notified and I was not. I don't know what to say. Just disappointed. I will stick with the new Stern le titles at this point.

I was never notified, but I got in.. I am not sure there was any 'plan' per se on how the RZ stuff went down.

Quoted from robotron:

are these still available?

I am sure these will be available on the secondary market.

#59 3 years ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

I agree with the build quality as I went and looked at a amh this week to purchase and I can understand why you said that .. still tho fun pin and awesome effort for a first pin . I stil may get one even if its not built like a say stern or jjp pin

you are nutz. The build quality is on par with everything else out there.

#60 3 years ago
Quoted from Shapeshifter:

Care to elaborate?
I mean some of the stuff on the latest Sterns is cheap as chips!
I had an XMLE that had p/f wear after 100 plays that was worse than my BSD that had 40000 plays....

Quoted from maddog14:

you are nutz. The build quality is on par with everything else out there.

Sorry, man. Not even close to the build quality of other MFG's. Still good for garage built but I look at it for the cost of the machine. For $6K it should be built the same (or better) quality wise as what else is out there for $6K. Here are some examples:

- Screws that are glued back into the under side of the PF. This was done on several mechanisms as well as the slide rail.
- Slide rail, only one rail which is odd enough. PF is fairly light but the one my friend had broke out from where it attached at the front to the PF. Another place hot glue was used with a screw. And no, it didn't happen due to neglect.
- All those damn, stand offs. Stern and JJP use the plastic ones that connect to the plastic. For some reason Spooky had to go with these small metal ones that don't stay put on things.
- Screws put in at angles so that they actually hit wood. This is most prominent with the shooter lane ramp. If they just would drill the hole further to the right it wouldn't be needed. Let's not talk about how the end of that mount is cut to where it protrudes into the hole. This is where most of your ball hang ups happen in that area. Simple 5 mins on a grinder resolved that issue.
- Most of the 3D printed parts are hollow. You will notice this when they start breaking. We went through a dozen or so parts pretty quickly. Spooky's customer support was great and they sent replacements but they are still under built. The most surprising one was the piece that connects to the ball through coil. We finally replaced it with a modified williams unit. No more breaking issues.
- how about that cross over jump ramp. That lane guide leading to it had more bumps and wiggles in it than an old ladys legs full of cottage cheese. Worked on fixing it and quickly realized that they didn't allow for enough room for the screw mounts to allow for it to be smooth.

There's more but, one I don't recall everything as I didn't document it all as we cont to work on things and, two, I'm not trying to get into an argument over this.

My experience with AMH is that, for the cost of the machine, it is under built. At $4K, it wouldn't have been such as an issue but at $6K I would expect a lot more fit and finish. Spooky customer support is great but I still wont buy until I see a major improvement along these lines. They could have very well addressed all these problems but until I see it I'm out for good, no matter what the theme may be. AMH will probably always hold it's value due to the limit of 150 games though.

#61 3 years ago
Quoted from maddog14:

you are nutz. The build quality is on par with everything else out there.

Ok if you say so .... I thought so also until I popped the hood for the first time this week and its definitely comes across as a mix of home brew and factory made. Again not a bad thing Ive owned about every brand of pin and have did complete teardowns of all them and its definitely not as professional. Its just my opinion and the owner and others agreed . Thats not to say its not a solid pin bc it is for a first pin and is fun to play .

#62 3 years ago
Quoted from 85vett:

Sorry, man. Not even close to the build quality of other MFG's. Still good for garage built but I look at it for the cost of the machine. For $6K it should be built the same (or better) quality wise as what else is out there for $6K. Here are some examples:
- Screws that are glued back into the under side of the PF. This was done on several mechanisms as well as the slide rail.
- Slide rail, only one rail which is odd enough. PF is fairly light but the one my friend had broke out from where it attached at the front to the PF. Another place hot glue was used with a screw. And no, it didn't happen due to neglect.
- All those damn, stand offs. Stern and JJP use the plastic ones that connect to the plastic. For some reason Spooky had to go with these small metal ones that don't stay put on things.
- Screws put in at angles so that they actually hit wood. This is most prominent with the shooter lane ramp. If they just would drill the hole further to the right it wouldn't be needed. Let's not talk about how the end of that mount is cut to where it protrudes into the hole. This is where most of your ball hang ups happen in that area. Simple 5 mins on a grinder resolved that issue.
- Most of the 3D printed parts are hollow. You will notice this when they start breaking. We went through a dozen or so parts pretty quickly. Spooky's customer support was great and they sent replacements but they are still under built. The most surprising one was the piece that connects to the ball through coil. We finally replaced it with a modified williams unit. No more breaking issues.
- how about that cross over jump ramp. That lane guide leading to it had more bumps and wiggles in it than an old ladys legs full of cottage cheese. Worked on fixing it and quickly realized that they didn't allow for enough room for the screw mounts to allow for it to be smooth.
There's more but, one I don't recall everything as I didn't document it all as we cont to work on things and, two, I'm not trying to get into an argument over this.
My experience with AMH is that, for the cost of the machine, it is under built. At $4K, it wouldn't have been such as an issue but at $6K I would expect a lot more fit and finish. Spooky customer support is great but I still wont buy until I see a major improvement along these lines. They could have very well addressed all these problems but until I see it I'm out for good, no matter what the theme may be. AMH will probably always hold it's value due to the limit of 150 games though.

Thanks you saved me alot of elaborating lol.

#63 3 years ago

Out

#64 3 years ago
Quoted from 85vett:

Sorry, man. Not even close to the build quality of other MFG's. Still good for garage built but I look at it for the cost of the machine. For $6K it should be built the same (or better) quality wise as what else is out there for $6K. Here are some examples:
- Screws that are glued back into the under side of the PF. This was done on several mechanisms as well as the slide rail.
- Slide rail, only one rail which is odd enough. PF is fairly light but the one my friend had broke out from where it attached at the front to the PF. Another place hot glue was used with a screw. And no, it didn't happen due to neglect.
- All those damn, stand offs. Stern and JJP use the plastic ones that connect to the plastic. For some reason Spooky had to go with these small metal ones that don't stay put on things.
- Screws put in at angles so that they actually hit wood. This is most prominent with the shooter lane ramp. If they just would drill the hole further to the right it wouldn't be needed. Let's not talk about how the end of that mount is cut to where it protrudes into the hole. This is where most of your ball hang ups happen in that area. Simple 5 mins on a grinder resolved that issue.
- Most of the 3D printed parts are hollow. You will notice this when they start breaking. We went through a dozen or so parts pretty quickly. Spooky's customer support was great and they sent replacements but they are still under built. The most surprising one was the piece that connects to the ball through coil. We finally replaced it with a modified williams unit. No more breaking issues.
- how about that cross over jump ramp. That lane guide leading to it had more bumps and wiggles in it than an old ladys legs full of cottage cheese. Worked on fixing it and quickly realized that they didn't allow for enough room for the screw mounts to allow for it to be smooth.
There's more but, one I don't recall everything as I didn't document it all as we cont to work on things and, two, I'm not trying to get into an argument over this.
My experience with AMH is that, for the cost of the machine, it is under built. At $4K, it wouldn't have been such as an issue but at $6K I would expect a lot more fit and finish. Spooky customer support is great but I still wont buy until I see a major improvement along these lines. They could have very well addressed all these problems but until I see it I'm out for good, no matter what the theme may be. AMH will probably always hold it's value due to the limit of 150 games though.

Do you think your issues are consistent with all amh?
And if so, do you think they can or will be addressed in RZ?

#65 3 years ago
Quoted from SilverBallz:

Do you think your issues are consistent with all amh?
And if so, do you think they can or will be addressed in RZ?

Can't speak to that. The ones i've seen were all the same. I've spoken to several whom are seeing/feeling the same. We don't post about it as we know it would probably become another pinside epic thread of arguing. I wasn't going to elaborate but felt the need to justify my comments. I hope others experiences are better. I really like Spooky
I just think they could step things up a bit. I also feel that they are getting passes on things that we would complain about to no end if stern or JJP did the same thing. I'm just trying to look at it with the mfg glasses removed and comparing it to like priced games.

#66 3 years ago

Due to the limited amount of amh and RZ I doubt anyone has to worry about taking a bath on them when it's time to sell. So please don't think I'm saying what I am for resale motives (I know some may be thing that already).

#67 3 years ago
Quoted from 85vett:

Can't speak to that. The ones i've seen were all the same. I've spoken to several whom are seeing/feeling the same. We don't post about it as we know it would probably become another pinside epic thread of arguing. I wasn't going to elaborate but felt the need to justify my comments. I hope others experiences are better. I really like Spooky
I just think they could step things up a bit. I also feel that they are getting passes on things that we would complain about to no end if stern or JJP did the same thing. I'm just trying to look at it with the mfg glasses removed and comparing it to like priced games.

I would think the build quality would be better because of the hands on involvement with such a small team. I didn't look at it as a way to cut corners and do things subpar. But it's probably easer to get away with that type of stuff with small production.i hope spooky chimes in to address these issues and hopefully they learned from their mistakes ... Unless they don't think they're mistakes.

#68 3 years ago

bailed because of pf art and plastics. Would have loved the pf in this style. I am sure it will play just fine though.

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2549f68eec2729b921abc2ae674dbe22.jpg

#69 3 years ago

Just great... wound up on a damned Kaneda list...

#70 3 years ago
Quoted from 85vett:

Was not impressed with the build quality

Learned something from that TPI Barbie ride, eh?

#71 3 years ago
Quoted from maddog14:

you are nutz. The build quality is on par with everything else out there.

He's not nuts, anyone who thinks AMH is as well built/professional feeling as Met or TWD as two examples, it's not even close.

I'm not saying AMH is a bad game, but it does look like a 'kit car' when put next to an actual production car. Now, kit cars are fine and fun but if you can't tell the difference between a kit car and a production car you need your eyes examined.

#72 3 years ago

Thedarkknight77.......Deposit sent!

#73 3 years ago

A birdie told me all the games are spoken for, The video I saw had about 20% of code in it. I do like the tune Living Dead Girl".

#74 3 years ago

In for two

#75 3 years ago

Ohh hell yeah I'm in

#76 3 years ago

Surprising poll results. Back outs and fence sitters equal to the number of confirmations.

#77 3 years ago

Why is there not a "fuck no" in the poll?

#78 3 years ago
Quoted from pindan3:

A birdie told me all the games are spoken for, The video I saw had about 20% of code in it. I do like the tune Living Dead Girl".

Birdie is wrong...they will be soon though.

#80 3 years ago

My order is in for a RZ....

Steve
Pinball Refinery

#81 3 years ago

Surprised at how many passed, $1000 down and don't have to pay a dime until it ships???? What's there to lose?

#82 3 years ago

In

Hoping enough LE owners back out so I can move up to an LE.

Any LE owners want to switch backglasses? Plus some cash?

#83 3 years ago

I am also looking for someone wanting to trade their LE translite for a standard one.

#84 3 years ago
Quoted from thedarkknight77:

Surprised at how many passed, $1000 down and don't have to pay a dime until it ships???? What's there to lose?

Not every pin is for someone expecially for around 6500. Im on the second list , im pretty sure it wont get to me anyhow . Even if it did , I would pass as there are many other pins id purchase other than this.

#85 3 years ago
Quoted from thedarkknight77:

Surprised at how many passed

keep in mind that many that were never in are likely voting to say they passed.
others that want in may also be saying passed to try and sway opinion and hopefully move up the list.

pinside poll is far from reality.

Charlie and co. are the only ones that will know how many really passed. He cant count the chickens before they hatch (i.e. deposit checks are cleared) but from the sounds of it very few have passed if they were on the real list.

It sounds like the true intent of this poll was to try and figure out how many pinsiders account for the 300 total sales?

#86 3 years ago

All i know is my amh is pretty well built and solid. I am comparing this to my acdc premium for reference. So i can only base my opinion off of my first hand experience.

My amh is the 12th one built.

#87 3 years ago

Rob zombie and spooky pinball too sweet

#88 3 years ago
Quoted from rai:

He's not nuts, anyone who thinks AMH is as well built/professional feeling as Met or TWD as two examples, it's not even close.
I'm not saying AMH is a bad game, but it does look like a 'kit car' when put next to an actual production car. Now, kit cars are fine and fun but if you can't tell the difference between a kit car and a production car you need your eyes examined.

IMO AMH looks homebrew due to the toys and art...something that's not an issue with RZ. We've seen plenty of debates about, for example, Stern games feeling less professional than B/W, but that perception has diminished as the game play has proven itself. I'd image the same will happen with RZ... the game will be lighter because there isn't a lot of hardware mechs on the playfield but that doesn't necessarily imply the game will be cheaply made.

#89 3 years ago

In

#90 3 years ago
Quoted from Baiter:

IMO AMH looks homebrew due to the toys and art...something that's not an issue with RZ. We've seen plenty of debates about, for example, Stern games feeling less professional than B/W, but that perception has diminished as the game play has proven itself. I'd image the same will happen with RZ... the game will be lighter because there isn't a lot of hardware mechs on the playfield but that doesn't necessarily imply the game will be cheaply made.

RZ has that same "kit car" vibe to it that AMH does and appears to have far less toys in it then AMH. More people will backout when they realize what they are getting for $6k. A Stern MET Pro LED offers far more value in terms of features / toys, artwork, build quality, etc and can be shipped to your home for under $5k.

#91 3 years ago
Quoted from emkay:

Learned something from that TPI Barbie ride, eh?

Ha, funny. I'm pretty happy with my fully restored resto modded 85 vette. Had it almost 20 years now and I completed the restoration about 12 years ago. Rock solid car that I've had no issues with since then. Not the fastest car out there anymore but heck, that's what my supercharged Roush and modded 04 cobra are for. Fun part of the cobra is there are enough knuckleheads out there that are old enough to have fast cars but young enough to not have a clue what potential they have for dirt cheap.

Nice try trying to divert from the topic of pinball build quality.

Quoted from maddog14:

All i know is my amh is pretty well built and solid. I am comparing this to my acdc premium for reference. So i can only base my opinion off of my first hand experience.
My amh is the 12th one built.

That's great to hear. Find it hard to believe since I also have an AC/DC premium and the AMH's I'm talking about weren't even close to being in the same league as it. But if that is the case then I'm truely happy for you.

-1
#92 3 years ago

[error]

#93 3 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

RZ has that same "kit car" vibe to it that AMH does and appears to have far less toys in it then AMH. More people will backout when they realize what they are getting for $6k. A Stern MET Pro LED offers far more value in terms of features / toys, artwork, build quality, etc and can be shipped to your home for under $5k.

Yea I was also gonna say amh has more actual toys and mechs than the rz pin . Id say lots of the budget went to the artwork and license unlike amh. Glad there is another company and happy for them doing that license . Looking fwd to playing one at a show or friends. I say The More pinball the better

#94 3 years ago

I'm out. Just sent the email to Kayte. Its just doesn't quite work for me and I have no interest in flipping it. Hope the next man up loves it!

#95 3 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

RZ has that same "kit car" vibe to it that AMH does and appears to have far less toys in it then AMH. More people will backout when they realize what they are getting for $6k. A Stern MET Pro LED offers far more value in terms of features / toys, artwork, build quality, etc and can be shipped to your home for under $5k.

I disagree.

First off, not sure what people are saying about the build quality with AMH - Mine has had a ton of plays put on it and has had one thing break on it. Mine had an early design of a part, it was sent out, the new part has worked since. My game probably has around 2500 games on it at this point, not all me.

Ben has stated that if they had to do it again, they would not use the servos that they used on AMH because they are prone to breakage, although they are cheap to replace.

Beyond that, I just don't see this terrible build quality. Is it perfect? No. But then again, in the early 90s, believe it or not companies not named Gottlieb were sending out games with glaring issues in them regularly too.

Quoted from 85vett:

At $4K, it wouldn't have been such as an issue but at $6K I would expect a lot more fit and finish. Spooky customer support is great but I still wont buy until I see a major improvement along these lines.

You're talking economies of scale here though. At $6k, but with only 150 of them being made, that means less time that can be sunk into the development of everything. At 300 machines, you start to gain a little bit more of the economy of scale. But let's pretend you could get a Stern Pro for $4k - Stern is expecting to make at least 1000 of each of those machines.

Quoted from rai:

He's not nuts, anyone who thinks AMH is as well built/professional feeling as Met or TWD as two examples, it's not even close.

I said this in another thread and I really feel this - AMH perfectly encapsulates the theme that it was given. It's a game about a group of ghost hunters that are making a reality show. No other game ever made has a theme quite like this. In many ways, I think it was genius they used this, because the not perfect quotes and stuff like that work *perfectly* in theme. I honestly love the art package on it for the cartoon-y way that it is presented.

No, it doesn't feel like my Metallica theme, where it is based on a band that has been around for ages and has expectations to live up to, but I also think my Tommy sounds like garbage compared to it.

To me, AMH feels like a game that was put together 20 years ago with a modern theme and some of the most unique code in a machine ever. I *completely* understand how some people don't love it or don't get it, but it is possible to appreciate it for what it is and not try to compare it to everything else. I don't dislike my 4 Square because it doesn't have the same level of sounds as my Metallica.

#96 3 years ago

Sorry for two in a row, almost missed this...

Quoted from bigd1979:

Yea I was also gonna say amh has more actual toys and mechs than the rz pin.

Let's see here:

AMH has a ghost, the door and the Hellevator.

RZ has the robot, Captain Spaulding, and a mini-playfield.

I feel like the two line up nearly exactly. The robot and ghost are both not directly interactive, they just move around. From what I can tell, it looks like the robot does more motion, as it goes back and forth and shakes, where the ghost just went back and forth.

The door blocks a shot until you hit it enough, and so does Captain Spaulding. Same thing.

The Hellevator and the mini-playfield are both things that are interactive with the ball.

Seems about the same to me.

If you would argue that AMH has the moving three target bank, I think the drop target is similar in nature.

It's also a similar amount of stuff in it as recent Sterns have if not more. Metallica has in the way of what I would count toys Sparky and the snake. Beyond that... ramps, spinners, cool stuff... but NOT specific new toys. Iron Man has the Monger.

Now, I'm not trying to compare them for fun factor - I don't think anything will ever beat IM for me in the way of how much I love it - but I don't understand the argument that some people are suddenly making that this game is way stripped down. It's just not.

Quoted from bigd1979:

Id say lots of the budget went to the artwork and license unlike amh.

There is a full color display with full color animation in RZ. If I'm sticking a colored DMD in a game versus a color DMD, that's probably a $200 price increase in parts alone. Add to that this game has INSANE animations (I honestly don't know how they did them), and I don't feel like RZ has had anything cut from it.

Quoted from bigd1979:

Glad there is another company and happy for them doing that license . Looking fwd to playing one at a show or friends. I say The More pinball the better

This part I do agree with you fully on. The more the merrier, I say! But I feel like the pricing of this is perfect in the market right now, if not a little on the cheap side for what they are doing. I wish them continued success, and I think that what they have pulled off so far is absolutely amazing.

#97 3 years ago

Never in and no desire to be in. Why no option in poll for this???

#98 3 years ago

Dear haters...

It's annoying how you guys seem to be trying to pass of your opinions as facts. None of you have even touched nor played RZ, and likely most of you have never touched/played/looked inside an AMH. If you're not interested in these games then that's totally fine, but don't go around telling people that Spooky games are stripped down, cheap feeling, and low quality builds, because they're not. I own an AMH and can say that it overall feels like just as high quality of a build then a Stern or B/W games. Yeah sure it's got a few kinks, but so does every pinball machine ever.

#99 3 years ago
Quoted from goatdan:

Sorry for two in a row, almost missed this...

Let's see here:
AMH has a ghost, the door and the Hellevator.
RZ has the robot, Captain Spaulding, and a mini-playfield.
I feel like the two line up nearly exactly. The robot and ghost are both not directly interactive, they just move around. From what I can tell, it looks like the robot does more motion, as it goes back and forth and shakes, where the ghost just went back and forth.
The door blocks a shot until you hit it enough, and so does Captain Spaulding. Same thing.
The Hellevator and the mini-playfield are both things that are interactive with the ball.
Seems about the same to me.
If you would argue that AMH has the moving three target bank, I think the drop target is similar in nature.
It's also a similar amount of stuff in it as recent Sterns have if not more. Metallica has in the way of what I would count toys Sparky and the snake. Beyond that... ramps, spinners, cool stuff... but NOT specific new toys. Iron Man has the Monger.
Now, I'm not trying to compare them for fun factor - I don't think anything will ever beat IM for me in the way of how much I love it - but I don't understand the argument that some people are suddenly making that this game is way stripped down. It's just not.

There is a full color display with full color animation in RZ. If I'm sticking a colored DMD in a game versus a color DMD, that's probably a $200 price increase in parts alone. Add to that this game has INSANE animations (I honestly don't know how they did them), and I don't feel like RZ has had anything cut from it.

This part I do agree with you fully on. The more the merrier, I say! But I feel like the pricing of this is perfect in the market right now, if not a little on the cheap side for what they are doing. I wish them continued success, and I think that what they have pulled off so far is absolutely amazing.

You forgot amh has a magnet and two scoops and subway also and the motorized 3 target bank is much better than a single drop target imo. The color dmd is nice but dont do anything with game play except for video mode

#100 3 years ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

You forgot amh has a magnet and two scoops and subway also and the motorized target bank is much better than a drop target imo.

I have never once considered a scoop or subway a "toy". I mean, then Popeye has insane amounts of toys as it has three scoops on the bottom of it. It's a shot.

Magnets I find debatable. Would you say that the Monger on IM is two toys because it is a thing you hit and a magnet? I wouldn't - I'd call it one toy, in which case the ghost with magnet would be one toy.

Motorized target versus drop target is definitely up for debate as to which is more fun, but I think it just simply depends on how the game works. In general, motorized target banks have been used to better effect through time, while drop targets can be hit or miss.

Quoted from bigd1979:

The color dmd is nice but dont do anything with game play.

Yeah, but you said, "Id say lots of the budget went to the artwork and license unlike amh." The color DMD isn't affecting gameplay I agree, but I find it very hard to look at RZ and AMH and argue that RZ looks in any way cost cut. I don't understand how they're affording to do it, actually.

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