Transformer OK - Fan-Tas-Tic

Your credit unit wheel is way below zero and the pin actuating switches is too far into the switch. Now the switch lighting credit lamp at apron is shorted to the other witch, which allows game to be started if there are credits. This causes the 24V to short to the 6V and blow your fuses.

Probably there is nothing wrong with the transformer, but you have measured incorrectly.

#3 3 years ago

JCH

jclocomotion

Pinside member

Quoted from Tuukka:
Your credit unit wheel is way below zero and the pin actuating switches is too far into the switch. Now the switch lighting credit lamp at apron is shorted to the other witch, which allows game to be started if there are credits. This causes the 24V to short to the 6V and blow your fuses.
Probably there is nothing wrong with the transformer, but you have measured incorrectly.

I know that reply reel is not aligned properly and trying to get info on how to do that currently.
Why am I measuring incorrectly as the all the taps are showing way above what VAC they should be putting out?

#4 3 years ago

Tuukka

Pinside member

The switches should both open when credits are at zero.

Don't know how you are measuring, but it is very unlikely that both voltages would be that high. Only thing that could cause too high voltage at transformer output is a short in primary winding, which would require serious overheating of transformer. And even then, the 24V reading should be about 4x the 6V reading. My guess is you are measuring against some floating ground point, maybe the earth connection of 230VAC.

#5 3 years ago

JCH

jclocomotion

Pinside member

Quoted from Tuukka:
The switches should both open when credits are at zero.
Don't know how you are measuring, but it is very unlikely that both voltages would be that high. Only thing that could cause too high voltage at transformer output is a short in primary winding, which would require serious overheating of transformer. And even then, the 24V reading should be about 4x the 6V reading. My guess is you are measuring against some floating ground point, maybe the earth connection of 230VAC.

I have sorted the replay reel and it's all setup how it should be and the way it has been setup is that it will go round to 14 before opening the contacts to reset it back to zero.

Re the transformer I don't have much knowledge when it comes to VAC transformers so in pic 1 and 2 where would I attach my meter to get a correct reading on the taps? There is no wire attched to the 24v tap. I know that there is 240v getting into it and all fuses are intact.
Does it make any difference if the play-field is attached or not?

Really annoyed with myself for not checking what blew the fuse
20200510_121225 (resized).jpg20200510_155637 (resized).jpg

#6 3 years ago

Tuukka

Pinside member

On the credit unit, there is one switch that opens when credits are at maximum. This can be adjusted by moving the pin that actuates the switch. Then there are the other rwo switches that open when credits are at zero. It is not adjustable. Also, there is a switch that actuates when a credit is added. That is driving the knocker coil.

Transformer voltage measurement should be done between the C terminal and the 6/24/high tap outputs, with your meter set at ACV. But remove the switch stack short (adjust the credit unit properly) before mesurements. You can measure the voltages even if the 24V or 6V fuses are not installed.

The coil voltage can be either 24V, or about 27V if the wire is moved from 24 to the high tap. I dont recommend using the high tap, since the game was designed for 220 volts input, and we are already at 230V. Cleaning playfield and all mechanisms should result in nice game play with no need to raise the voltage. High tap was really meant for cases of lower than normal line voltage.

#7 3 years ago

JCH

jclocomotion

Pinside member

Quoted from Tuukka:
On the credit unit, there is one switch that opens when credits are at maximum. This can be adjusted by moving the pin that actuates the switch. Then there are the other rwo switches that open when credits are at zero. It is not adjustable. Also, there is a switch that actuates when a credit is added. That is driving the knocker coil.
Transformer voltage measurement should be done between the C terminal and the 6/24/high tap outputs, with your meter set at ACV. But remove the switch stack short (adjust the credit unit properly) before mesurements. You can measure the voltages even if the 24V or 6V fuses are not installed.
The coil voltage can be either 24V, or about 27V if the wire is moved from 24 to the high tap. I dont recommend using the high tap, since the game was designed for 220 volts input, and we are already at 230V. Cleaning playfield and all mechanisms should result in nice game play with no need to raise the voltage. High tap was really meant for cases of lower than normal line voltage.

Yup go the credit/replay unit thing in check now Assuming that it has been set to 13 credits/replays in it's current state?

Measured the transformer voltages as you suggested and thank you for the info and the pictures show the results, so it looks like the transformer is fine. Just don't know were to look now as the game is still dead when on and the play-field attached.
Is there anywhere in the last 2 pics that I can test to see if the correct voltage is getting through. The fuse on the play-filed is also intact.
Also should I move from the hi-tap to the 24v one?

I will assume that it's something very simple that is stopping this game fire up but just cannot see were it is
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#8 3 years ago

SPD

TheWiz

Pinside member

Chillicothe, OH

8y 45,800 272 22

Just to be sure, once you power on, press the left flipper button. On Fan-Tas-Tic nothing comes on once you turn on power until you press the left flipper button or the credit button. If that does not work then you need to dig into the schematics and use a meter to find out where you are losing power.

#9 3 years ago

JCH

jclocomotion

Pinside member

Quoted from TheWiz:
Just to be sure, once you power on, press the left flipper button. On Fan-Tas-Tic nothing comes on once you turn on power until you press the left flipper button or the credit button. If that does not work then you need to dig into the schematics and use a meter to find out where you are losing power.

The transformer is humming as normal but the left flipper does nothing as before it used to light up a lot of the play-field and head lamps.
I will check the bridge rectifier first and see if that has met it's end as I know the fuse is fine.

#10 3 years ago

JCH

jclocomotion

Pinside member

Right finished work

I am getting more lost on the issue with this dead pin.
The transformer is fine and the fuses are all in-tact

The credit/replay reel contact is closed so the game knows it has credits

I have no VAC on the bridge rectifier but have 7v dc on the other side that slowly goes down. The Bridge rectifier reads fine with a DMM

Can I ask for some advice on where to look next for this no power issue as I am having trouble getting to grips with the schematic

#11 3 years ago

Tuukka

Pinside member

The rectifier only gets power during game, not in game over state. 7V residual in filter capacitor from last game is normal. Why do you think there is a problem with the rectifier?

#12 3 years ago

JCH

jclocomotion

Pinside member

Quoted from Tuukka:
The rectifier only gets power during game, not in game over state. 7V residual in filter capacitor from last game is normal. Why do you think there is a problem with the rectifier?

That's my issue I am out of my depth on this.
When the pin has power the left flipper does nothing so just not sure where to test next.

#13 3 years ago

Tuukka

Pinside member

Does the lock relay energize when you press the left button? Also, starting game or inserting coin should as well energize the relay. The power is on even with lock relay off, only the lamps are not powered. Since you shorted the 24V to 6V, all lamps may be burned out.

#14 3 years ago

JCH

jclocomotion

Pinside member

Quoted from Tuukka:
Does the lock relay energize when you press the left button? Also, starting game or inserting coin should as well energize the relay. The power is on even with lock relay off, only the lamps are not powered. Since you shorted the 24V to 6V, all lamps may be burned out.

No the lock relay doesn't energise when the left flipper button is pressed.
When the issue occurred ALL the head lamps blew but the play-field is fine.

#15 3 years ago

Tuukka

Pinside member

Then your 24V fuse is probably open or not making contact with the holder. Does the score motor run if you manually turn it a bit forward? If not, then definitely the 24V is missing. And since 24V is present at transformer, it most certainly is the fuse.

#16 3 years ago

JCH

jclocomotion

Pinside member

Quoted from Tuukka:
Then your 24V fuse is probably open or not making contact with the holder. Does the score motor run if you manually turn it a bit forward? If not, then definitely the 24V is missing. And since 24V is present at transformer, it most certainly is the fuse.

I will check this tomorrow after work. I have tried moving the score motor and nothing happens.
I will post pics the relevant voltages from the transformer etc.

Thanks for your help

#17 3 years ago

JCH

jclocomotion

Pinside member

AFter more research and help from others I have noticed that the lock-out relay is not energising as well as the coin door one.

Not sure on the state the credit unit is currently in so will check to see if the contacts are open.

So when I get in from work today with see what happens if I manually activate the lockout relay with the credit unit showing a credit.

#18 3 years ago

Tuukka

Pinside member

The lock relay and coin lockout coil are not energizing because the 24V is missing. It has nothing to do with the lock relay or credit unit. Check the 24V fuse and holder.

#19 3 years ago

JCH

jclocomotion

Pinside member