(Topic ID: 121816)

Whoa Nellie! Big Juicy Melons confirmed + pricing + pics

By unigroove

9 years ago


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  • Latest reply 8 years ago by OLDPINGUY
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#242 9 years ago
Quoted from ninedeuce:

If anyone is interested in a project build at (potentially) less than the Stern build, I have the parts, but not the inclination to tackle the original conversion. I would consider selling these (and may make a for sale post). Let me know if there is any interest with a PM.
Parts:
Continental Cafe Game (Complete)
2nd run playfield
Plastics set
Backglass
Everything is still in as received from manufacturers condition. I'm in Phoenix, AZ.

I was hoping to bring my EM conversion WNBJM to the Allentown show on May 1st. Alas, my game remains incomplete. I found the conversion to be an immensely difficult and time-intensive undertaking. Indeed, my 2 player score reels still have not been converted to the single-player configuration. With that said, the EM conversion is not impossible and I'm glad that I dedicated the effort toward the project because the game is a lot of fun to play. But, I have to tilt my head to view the score reels, pending final score reel adaptation. Below are some photos representing various stages of the project (some posted previously and some previously not posted until now).
Image 16.jpgImage 16.jpg
Starting the playfield conversion (above)
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The wooden arch had to be reconfigured (above)
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Continental Cafe inside cabinet, prior to conversion (above)
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Continental Cafe playfield underside (above)
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Continental Cafe backbox (above)
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Continental Cafe playfield (above)
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Continental Cafe backglass (above). I had to extend the backbox vertically to accommodate the higher Whoa Nellie backglass
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The playfield swap in progress (above)
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Whoa Nellie playfield's underside (above)
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Whoa Nellie playfield's underside (above)
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Whoa Nellie in its converted state (above)
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Whoa Nellie conversion nearly completed (above)
After this photo, I overlaid the chicken wire motif on the side backbox banners and I replaced the score cards with WNBJM score cards.
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Finished playfield, including correct score cards and red flipper bats (above)

#519 9 years ago
Quoted from BenetBoy78:

These are some pics our parents/ pinball predecessors enjoyed 60 years ago...similar to today's fanfare....
DMBackGlass.jpg (Click image to enlarge)DMbackglassdtl1.jpgDMbackglassdtl2.jpgDMPigsDtl.jpgDMLeftFlipperDtl.jpgDMPlayfield middle.jpg (Click image to enlarge)DMPlayfield middle2.jpgDMPlayfieldlower.jpgDMLeftDtlSpeshul.jpgDMRightDtlSpeshul.jpgDMUpperPF.jpgDMUpperPFDtl.jpgDMUpperPFDtl1.jpgDRAGBGDTL.jpgDRAGBG.jpg

Your post (and an earlier post in this thread by another pinsider) of Daisy May is spot on. Greg Freres has stated that Gottlieb's Daisy May woodrail was the inspiration for WNBJM. The artistic and design backstory can be found at the link as follows:

http://www.thedeadlyspawn.com/pinball411/pinball-article/

#773 9 years ago
Quoted from AlexF:

I think many here don't realize the art package was actually influenced/inspired by real vintage fruit labels. These were commercial advertising on fruit crates. If you were walking through a grocery store in the 40s-50s you may see these "rsque" images. If you like vintage advertising or vintage pin-up art this stuff is fantastic. I know my wife wouldn't be offended by any of it.

BlushingMelons.jpg
GlamourGirl.jpg
FootHigh.jpg
PlentiGrand.jpg (Click image to enlarge)

Exactly.
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#796 9 years ago
Quoted from oldskool1969:

Hi vid1900, I think you should read more on the history. Here is an exert so you don't confuse anyone into thinking anything untoward.
Those of us wishing to do create a home-grown Nellie, discovered that the donor game was as scarce as hen's teeth. A couple of guys tried to use a similar vintage Gottlieb game as a donor (i.e. 1956 Gottlieb Toreador), only to discover that the immense conversion task was rendered impossible, without a Continental Cafe because the games shared the same ruleset. Even with the Continental Cafe as the donor, the quantum of work was enormous. For example, both the gobble hole return and the playfield arch had to be modified. The gobble hole scoop had to be customized to fit. Continental Cafe is a 2 player game whereas Nellie is a single player. The list of challenges is long. The WNBJM playfield has a much different configuration from that of Continental Cafe (e.g. multiple gobble holes on Continental Cafe versus a singular gobble hole on Nellie). Consequently, nearly all of those Nellie playfields are likely hanging on walls.
This come from the story on the home page of this forum FYI.

Allow me to clarify my description of Whoa Nellie and Continental Café as sharing the same "ruleset." Succinctly stated, the majority of the donor game's playfield wiring remained intact for the swap. However, the actual objectives (i.e. the rewards earned for striking specific targets at particular times and intervals) is much improved on Whoa Nellie. Because the layout of Continental Café is, in my opinion, uninspired, the donor game is fairly ho-hum. In contrast, the much improved layout of Whoa Nellie translates into a fun game. Dennis has highlighted the fact that Whoa Nellie has a clear flipper shot up to the top of the playfield. Of course, the flipper return lanes (on a woodrail) are a singularly unique design improvement, which makes the game immensely more fun to play. Also, Dennis made those return lanes steep. Coupled with the tight flipper coupling, Whoa Nellie allows for an exceptionally high degree of ball control at the flippers.

Most (but not all) of the playfield components of Continental Café were repositioned to similarly-located features on the Whoa Nellie playfield. For example, the dual bulls-eye target wiring migrated consistently from the donor game to Whoa Nellie. Nevertheless, Dennis improved the bulls-eye target configuration by making the targets asymmetrical and by adding more distance from the flippers. Dennis retained the original fun feature of the bulls-eye target, which awards an enhanced score for striking the target dead center. In other words, the scoring rules for the bulls-eye targets are shared between the two games. However, the geography of those targets and how they are incorporated into the overall Whoa Nellie game makes for an immensely-improved playing experience.

Dennis made considerable effort to create a balanced game which rewards the player's skill. When Roger Sharpe tested the Whoa Nellie prototype, Roger suggested the addition of some type of shooting objective to the left of the left bulls-eye target. Dennis agreed with Roger's suggestion by adding a star rollover to that area. Indeed, the overall placement of star rollover targets is much better on Whoa Nellie as compared to the donor game. There are more star rollovers on Whoa Nellie. Also, they are distributed throughout the playfield's real estate, in contrast to the conventional linear button rollovers aligned vertically at the bottom of Continental Café. Bottom line: Continental Café is somewhat boring whereas Whoa Nellie is a lot of fun.

Other differences in the game's structure contribute to the fun factor in WNBJM. The reduction of gobble holes is a significant improvement. Also, Whoa Nellie eliminates one of the static bumpers in favor of an improved lane rollover array at the top of the playfield. Likewise, Whoa Nellie clusters the pop bumpers to enhance the action and to open up the flipper shot to the top of the playfield. Whoa Nellie's ball return to the shooter lane on the right and its unusual oxymoronic straight arch (I mean that in a good way) are other examples of design features which make for appreciably different gameplay.

In summary, the primal "ruleset" is shared between Continental Café and WNBJM. However, the gameplay is substantially different. . .and better. The donor game is boring. Whoa Nellie is fun. We can all debate whether the theme is campy, insulting or merely a nod to the vintage fruit crate ads of yesteryear. One thing is certain: the gameplay is much evolved.

#909 9 years ago
Quoted from jonnyo:

I definitely agree here. Balls-a-Poppin/Circus is a super fun woodrail that's enjoyed by every DMD player I shove in front of it.

Imagine the comments and photos posted in this thread if the game had been Big Juicy Melons! Balls-a-Poppin. That WOULD be a circus.

Seriously, I agree that an unusual donor game choice, like Balls-a-Poppin, would have been fun. My top choice for a donor game would have been a woodrail with multiple avenues to "on-playfield" specials, like Gottlieb's 1953 Grand Slam. Retain the exceptionally good DNA of Grand Slam, with all of its "on-playfield" specials, and modify the theme and topography.

The donor game was never going to be a highly collectible game like Balls-a-Poppin or Grand Slam. Rather, the donor game was destined to be among the more obscure woodrails. The origin of WNBJM is instructive here. Grand Slam and Balls-a-Poppin are highly collectible woodrails. It would have been blasphemous to have converted even a single Grand Slam or Balls-a-Poppin let alone four of them, to a newly-themed game. Alternatively, if the genesis of the design did NOT actually require the sacrifice of a physical donor game, as was the case with Retro Pinball's King of Diamonds remake, WhizBang could have selected any EM ruleset in the universe of EM games.

Dennis Nordman happened to have a Continental Cafe with a broken backglass. Voila, donor game identified. The idea was to retain the EM experience in the newly-themed game, while adding some fresh new bones to the game's intrinsic biology. I suspect that it would have been overly complicated, for example, to have added clam-shell flippers (ala Daisy May) to Whoa Nellie. Adding return lanes and star rollovers was more realistic. Moving traditional rollover lanes and bumpers was reasonable. Subtracting gobble holes could be done. Shaving the arch and creating a shooter lane return could be accomplished. Even Dr. Frankenstein had to fit his monster into size 17 boots.

Don't get me wrong, I would have loved a spinner feature to complement the flipper shot to the top. Nevertheless, Whoa Nellie has a nice variety of satisfying shots. I particularly enjoy the backhand flipper shots at the bulls-eye targets and threading the needle through the pop bumpers up through the top rollover lanes. There are logical skill shots to score each of the 8 star rollovers. The shooter return lane has a rollover which is remote. However, EMs should incorporate the luck factor to some extent, in my view. The plunger shot to the yellow rollover lane is challenging and fun.

I think that Continental Cafe, as drab as it is, turned out to be a fortuitously good donor game. This is because most players place a high premium, as they should, on ball control. The flipper orientation on Continental Cafe, with its singular drain lane, and close coupling, translated very well with the addition of the flipper return lanes. As a consequence, Whoa Nellie offers really great flipper control to a player who is deft enough to exploit that feature. Also, retaining the dual bulls-eye targets and repositioning them is a derivative feature which is found on WNBJM precisely because Continental Cafe was the donor game. Some of the better woodrails (e.g Gottlieb's 1956 Harbor Lites) included the beloved bulls-eye target feature.

When I undertook my home-grown Whoa Nellie project, I added a Gottlieb chime unit. Naturally, Continental Cafe, circa 1957, did not have a chime unit. When I decided to add the chime unit, my thinking mirrored what I envisioned was the thinking of Dennis and Greg. The game is meant to reflect an EM sensibility. Players are rewarded for good shots and sometimes penalized for errant ones. Ball times can be long, short or anywhere in between. Walk up, pull the plunger, and play. It's easy to figure out what to do. Whoa Nellie is a refreshing, unpretentious game. . .like the farm-fresh taste of a watermelon on a hot day in July. Pretty girls, fresh fruit, campy double entendres. It's a counterbalance to the ultra-tech, multi-level, ramp-laden games of today. The game accomplishes that objective. That's why the EM enthusiasts in this forum are responding more favorably to Whoa Nellie while the DMD crowd is still in the head-scratching mode. Perhaps WNBJM will serve as a bridge to introduce some players to the wonderment of the EM era.

#941 9 years ago
Quoted from Chambahz:

Can anyone confirm if/why the insert between the pops says "weyna lit" instead of "when lit"?
http://www.sternpinball.com/upload/games/whoa-nellie/whoa/WNBJMflyer65.pdf

Mark Weyna provided technical support to WhizBang. Hence, "Weyna Lit."

#942 9 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

There is no reason the bells could not have been turned off in the menu settings if so desired. And what about that "real" cowbell that was promised?
"Get all your Whoa Nellie add-ons at the Stern mod shop- while supplies last"

I've been meaning to add a cow bell to the drain lane on my home-grown Nellie. Likewise, I think that the star rollover in which the ball re-enters the shooter lane ought to activate a unique sound, apart from the chimes and various standard bells.

#1046 9 years ago
Quoted from ccotenj:

what's amusing is that the "em subforum" is pretty much universally held in esteem for our ability to get along... even though many of us have opinions that vary greatly, those opinions are debated in a friendly manner...
as noted in another post... we are like the friendly old dog on the porch... we pretty much will tolerate anything... but prod us enough, and we will bite...

In the EM forum, even our cuddly cat avatars and cigar-smoking dog avatars get along. Now that's a tolerant group, for sure!

#1047 9 years ago
#1048 9 years ago

I have been meaning to post a video of my home-grown Whoa Nellie in action. All of this chatter about the Stern game's sound package has motivated me to post a video clip of my game, which has a 1970s vintage Gottlieb chime unit installed. Below is the youtube link, which you may have to cut and paste to your browser.

While this video fails to adequately demonstrate the frequently-activated sweet chimes and the shot variety, it does convey a flavor of the gameplay which, naturally, is melon-flavored.

#1049 9 years ago

I have not been able to place my Whoa Nellie topper atop the backbox yet. This is because the resting surface is incomplete and partially open. The dual score reels (which need to be converted to single-player) remain. A photo of the topper is below.

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#1051 9 years ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

Thanks for posting.
Seems pretty steep for a traditional EM. Looks like it might play a little nicer if you reduced the pitch a bit?? Obviously, its all about personal preference.
So..... Are you going to try to add an MP3 Player for additional sounds so you can make it sound just like the Stern Production model?

You are correct, Cactus Jack, the pitch was too steep in the video. Typically, the pitch is less steep, which I prefer on this game. I removed the wheels from the front legs for the video to increase the pitch because the ball was sticking in the re-entrance avenue to the shooter lane. Apart from changing the pitch, I did not prepare the game to shoot the video.

For example, there was a dead bulb in the top red pop bumper when I shot the video. There are several sockets which are not operating. I failed to land a ball in the green lane. Thus, the green bumpers and green star rollovers remained unlit through the entire video clip. Having all four pop bumpers and all rollovers illuminated adds to the look of the playfield, especially since the concentric plastic posts reflect the light well. I also failed to make the flipper shot to the top and the flipper shot through the middle up through the top rollovers.

This was my first ever pinball video. My daughter filmed it in a single take. Until now, the only coin-op video I've ever made was of a 1972 Sega Monster Gun nylon pellet shooter arcade game, also posted on youtube. One good thing is that I have Invisiglass on the Whoa Nellie, substantially reducing glare, for the video.

I would like to add a cow bell sound effect, by creating a physical knocker against a real cow bell. I'm not inclined to add any hillbilly speech. If I add speech, it will be female voices of the playfield characters (Melony, Hellen and Ellen) and the horse (Nellie).

#1054 9 years ago
Quoted from Retropin:

At last!!! The missing bash toy!

Bash a melon until it splits. . .double your score.

3 months later
#1089 8 years ago

Three months ago, in this thread, I posted a photo of a partial topper for my EM Whoa Nellie. Having just finished creating an interactive COWBELL TOPPER for the game, I started another thread early this morning, in which I post a video of the clanking cowbell topper, in action. Rather than entering a duplicate post of the video of the interactive topper, I have cut and pasted the link below, for any interested pinsiders, who wish to view the video:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/video-of-whoa-nellie-cowbell-topper-home-grown-em-nellie-sings

Below is a photo of the topper, thus far. I plan to add interactive lights in the future. Also, I'm glad to see that my shooter rod prototype has gone mainstream for Stern's WNBJM.

20150709_232846.jpg20150709_232846.jpg

4 months later
#1125 8 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

It honestly isn't anything like an EM. If you haven't played it then don't just look at some photos and assume it's the same thing, because it's not. There's really nothing else like it.

Even the EM version isn't anything like an average EM:
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20151123_224717.jpg20151123_224717.jpg
20151123_224846.jpg20151123_224846.jpg
20151123_224959.jpg20151123_224959.jpg

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