JJP all the way.

I don't think I have to.

I think 5K is a great price point for the end consumer. Granted 5K is still a lot of money but in comparison to some out there it is very affordable. I would like to see value from what ever company brings to market a 5K pin. Show me good code interactive toys and a great light show. These are characteristics of a great pin. I can always add shaker / hd glass/ and powder coating if I so choose. I do feel all of the bones need to be given with the initial purchase. Besides some people do not like the 3 upgrades I mentioned. To each their own. Great thread if Pinsiders take it seriously and not try to dismiss it. Hope other people share their thoughts.

JJP, no contest

I've purchased plenty of under $5000 games that were available.

Do you really think a brand new JJP game at $4999 or less would resemble the JJP games you've come to know and love?

Don't understand the point of this one.

depends on the game. Or are you saying if I could buy any game for $5k what would it be? If that is the question then... I guess whatever is the most expensive. SLE b66 or LE DI I guess. Stern had some sub $5k games available - the home editions of spiderman and ? I don't think many people bought them.

The way I imagined it was how others compared SW and DI and what you were getting for $500-600 price differences. So given that, I pictured a much more simple JJP pin at $5K that was more like a Stern Pro, but with $500 in extras (invisiglass, shaker...etc.) or simply 1-2 more PF features. Because I've thoroughly enjoyed the 2 JJP pins I've pumped buckets of quarters into (WoZ and Hobbit) and liked what I've seen on DI videos, I'd love to see what they could do at a lower price point and would be willing to sacrifice many of their current upgrades (large display, extra flippers, code deeper than most video games I play...etc.) if it got the price there.

I would just like to add I would of been happy as hell if I could have got my AFMRLE or my SWLE for 5k. or my DILE. Hell any game in my collection would have been nice to buy for 5K. Unfortunately this is not the world we live in. I would love it if it where. JJP makes a great game but unfortunately it comes at a great cost. I would love to drive a Ferrari for 279.00 a month.

But to answer your original post. JJP for 5K ALL DAY.

Pirates or Toy Story I would be fine with either.

I would buy it from the seller.

Ha! My kind of humor!

Sure it wouldn't be as feature packed as their current games but I bet it would have the same amazing code support. There wouldn't be 1 year code update delays. Without polished, unique and deep code all of these games are just a box of lights.

This is how I would imagine a Hobbit Pro for $5K if one existed:

Stand-ups instead of drop targets
no pop up beast targets
no diverter at top of the ramp
no kickback on left outlane - virtual save instead
only 5-7 RGB/Color changing bulbs
Static Smaug toy that lights up and doesn't move
Smaller Stern sized LCD

it would basically be a big empty playfield with some standups and a non interactive Smaug toy and maybe a spinner.

I bet that smaug toy would be mounted on a spring so with a good nudge you might see him jiggle.

I don't care who's building it. I'm not a fanboy. I'm also not going to buy 'Anything' just because its under 5k new. If its a good game, with good art, then any fair price is acceptable.

So your imaginary $5,000 JJP game has fantastic polished code, and doesn't have lengthy delays between code releases? That makes sense, we all know that code is free and slicing the cost of a JJP game almost in half won't affect code at all. I'm pretty sure Keith Johnson wouldn't mind taking a 40 percent pay cut, working 40 percent harder and faster, or working with 40 percent of the resources to pay for your imaginary 40 percent cheaper JJP game that you have already agreed to buy.

As far as I can tell, a pinball company has only reduced MSRP and released a commercially available "budget" pin line once in the history of the industry. It's called the Gottlieb Street Line, and (spoiler alert) it was NOT a success, in any measurable way - the games lacked pizzaz, they didn't earn, they didn't sell, and the experiment was abandoned after a year or so. Don't see why anybody would want to see anybody try something similar right now. Do some homework on the Street Line and see if that's really what you want to see your beloved JJP do.

I'd buy the game I liked the best. Why in the world I buy a game based only on the manufacturer. If all of them had 5K games I would pick the game I would enjoy the most.

That's not it.

That's what she said.

Oh god. I remember this. They showed up at our Wet'n'Wild (now Six Flags Hurricane Harbor) water park and had like a big fake vending machine. You had to guess which was pepsi or coke after trying them and saying which one was better. Can't fool a soda-addicted kid though, I knew right away, because Pepsi is and was disgusting. But hey, I won a free stick of Starburst for my time, so that was pretty radical.

It's also ironic that everything that has been released under the pepsi label that I've like....they've killed off. Crystal Pepsi, Pepsi Blue, Pepsi Max (Now Pepsi Zero Sugar but surely on the way out..)

does it have a LED or DMD or one of those awful LCD tv screens?

I am guessing I wouldn't buy one from any of them. Stern is the only one that offers games at that level now, and I have never wanted to buy one. I would either buy the Premium version if I wanted it, or not buy it at all. I imagine it would be the same with the other manufacturers if they made a budget version.

I'll buy a low end model of a car, because I have to have a car. I don't have to buy a pin, and if I do, I want the best possible experience with that purchase.

Should have maybe included Homepin in the poll. As yet unproven but they are the only company other than Stern aiming for this price point. Would have been interesting to see if people would consider buying a machine from them if it was priced at 5 grand.

This poll is pointless without delineating between current offerings and some mythical object we know nothing about and have to trust the manufacturer implicitly based on nothing but their reputation. Obviously with the former, I'd choose whichever game I could flip for the most profit and move forward with business as usual.

This is it.

That others share your fantasy that JJP could somehow make games at $5k similar to the ones they're now charging $8.5k for? JJP was built as a boutique pinball manufacturer, just like the others. They're almost certainly not tuned to take advantages of the economies of scale you'd need to pump out $5k games. So you'd be looking at a major overhaul and expansion of the business, a year or so after they required a big infusion of outside capital to keep the existing operation afloat (or so I read here on Pinside, maybe you interpreted the new investors differently). It all seems a little fanciful.

Even if JJP went in that direction, you'd probably be disappointed to find that the tank-like build quality and superior code support you love is not sustainable at a $5k price point (either because they wouldn't provide it, or they would go broke trying to provide it).

I feel like the question flash poses boils down to predicted value to be inserted into a game by each manufacturer at the 5k price point. Most of us voted by the poll, JJP is predicted to provide the most value. Doesn't mean the best game but because that can't be predicted really, just the most value to the consumer a la "stuff".

That's not it.

You asked a vague question and got vague responses. Please don't obfuscate further.

Homepin

You need an "All of the above" option. I'd buy from any of them if I like the theme, like the game and like the art package.

I think JJP will continue to make the highest quality pins of all time for a premium (and deserved) price and Stern will continue to make more affordable Pro models that really are still a bargain in the current pinball market. Also, the price of the AFMr standards really is a fair price. I was surprised by that. I assumed they would be at the same price as MMr and take a major bath.

Disclaimer: I am a JJP, Stern and CGC fanboy. They all make great stuff!

I'd buy one from my Uncle Francis, of course.

When I hope people will understand me, I choose my words carefully. This is just a mess.

I will say that a JJP game produced for a $5K SRP sounds absolutely terrifying to me but sure, why not. The more, the merrier.

The company stopped making pins because there wasn't enough profit in it to make it worth it.

IMO

Games have gotten too complex for casual players. While I may enjoy understanding and exploiting knowing the code of a deep game, many could care less about learning what sequence of shots are needed to reach a higher level of scoring.

The last Stern Spiderman "home" game had a couple interesting features and was relatively friendly to learn but the cost-cutting showed.

About the only way a 5k or less game IMO could gain traction would be to be familiar to casual players game from the past but also include some of the recent innovations including RGB led lighting, a prominent display and enhanced sound. Just my opinion but a remake of 8 ball DeLuxe, Fireball or Target Alpha just might interest the casual players and could be successful as a route game but with rules enhancements also interest the hardcore collectors. Again just my opinion, the build content could be low enough that there would be a sizeable profit for whoever built the game. One mistake Stern made was that last Spiderman lacked a traditional coindoor even though it was never going to be used. That screamed cheap and made it look like toy rather than game.

But the one huge problem that any builder would have to solve is the sales and service network. There simply is none for the casual buyer.

With all that, I don't believe we will ever see any cheap games made. No reason for a builder to do it. Easier to just cater to the hardcore game players. And those that route stuff already know a claw machine will make more money than any pin.

Then it wouldn't cost 5 grand, now would it. It would cost 7k.

I think the point is the 5k stripped down game is not what people want. Domino's is fun enough but didn't sell great. The reason is that's not what people want to own. Stern has proven they can make good 5k games. No one else is even close so it's a silly question.

They've got your new under $5000 pinball machine right here-

https://www.coinoppartsetc.com/product/machines-sale-pinball-machines-pinball-machines-new/spider-man-home-edition-pinball-game

SPIDER-MAN HOME Edition Pinball Game Machine For Sale by Stern Pinball (resized).jpg

SEND MONEY NOW!!!!

No homepin option?

Yeah, I think Homepin is going to be interesting. The blurry pics of the playfield appears to be packed with stuff. I was thinking that the US price was rumored to be below $5,000.

One of my fave games of all time is a Street Level (not Line) game: Title Fight. One of the most fun games I have ever played. You are correct that they were not a success on route in their time, but a couple still hold up well, IMHO, including Deadly Weapon.

BTW: If anybody out here has a Deadly Weapon or a Title Fight for sale, pm me!

Whatever Kingin Games is selling. Outstanding customer service. IMG_1110 (resized).JPG

Check out that production number

Economies of scale. Market forces. Labour and materials costs.

Time to shift from investing in nib pins, to playing them on location or buying gently used pinball machines instead. How many TOP25 games can you still buy for $5k? The answer may surprise you, its fifteen or 60% of the titles. Of course, that is not everyday pricing for all these games, but it shows that if you are resourceful, you can find what you seek. Why use TOP25 as the criteria, you ask? The top ranked of any activity/sport are there because they belong. In the case of pinball, these games are considered fun and they are quite popular. Recently spotted TOP25 titles under $5k: LOTR, MET pro, ACDC pro, ST pro, STTNG, SM, SS, TOM, AS pro, TSPP, TWD pro, Tron pro, WH20, IMVE and GB pro.

If you expanded the search to next 25 games on Pinside, you'll find 20 additional pins or 70% of TOP50 are under $5k. The next fifty games making up Pinside TOP100 are all under $5k. If 85% of TOP100 can be found for $5k, why pay more?

While $5k is expensive for one toy, it is also a little comforting to know a game doesn’t need to be $6k-10k to have a lifetime of fun with it. There is much discussion on the rising prices of new pinball machines and whether they are worth the cost. Some gripe that only a rich man can afford to buy LE’s today. I say it’s best to forget about the latest releases or upcoming themes and grab some games from the past to enjoy the hell out of.