Yes. That's very special. It takes an incredible level of effort, and creativity to do it all, let alone do it well. Doing it well? That's extra special.

And after all that work is done they're ready to start on the exact same journey a retheme does.

Then use that as your criteria if you're voting for something. If there are two categories then feel free to decided software and theme are the way you wish to value things.

If you don't care about layouts I think you're probably an exception in a hobby where the physical game is all that keeps up from just playing glorified video games, but you're more than welcome to your own preferences.

I don't think awards in and of themselves mean a lot, but honoring the work people put in is nice. This isn't about putting down rethemes, they're often incredible, but there is something absolutely special about shooting a layout you've never played before.

I think we, as a community, do a disservice to not acknowledge that more. If there are two categories, and only a few games in each, then so be it. Who cares? The idea that there has to be this deep field is dumb, what are the awards even for in not to bring a spotlight to the community? Let 3 games duke it out in each category and the 'loser' get third place and some time in the sun.

It's not that I don't care about the layout, but there are home-brews that are essentially just a layout. There is little else going on. It's barely a game. The real work (IMO) is in programing a layout to be fun.

Like when I see some of the games that do and don't win, I feel bad for the people who actually put in a lot of time to make a proper game that you might want to play more than once. And I don't think that puts me in the minority either. I think that was the main objection to when Jack Danger won. He barely made a game... and that is a common sentiment I feel like.

And I'll be clear, I do think some rethemes should be excluded. Like if the sound and programing isn't updated and there is a disjarring marriage of the original base game with a new art package, I don't think it should be included. But I don't think many of those make the nomination list, so it's not an issue to me

I would have rather someone else won last year, but I also vehemently disagree with some of the people who discounted the time and effort put into Ferris Bueller. If you had never seen a Mustang before, you wouldn't know it was a retheme.

There's a number of issues, as pointed out. But if you want to try to incorporate 'level of coding' into this, it gets pretty complicated. What's good enough? Totally get the annoyance by some who have scratch games entered with code losing to rethemes.. or to other games that only have the basic MPF 3-ball tutorial game going maybe with some scoring associated to switches. So where do you draw the line? "estimated 50% coded" ? Has sounds, light shows, .. modes? Does it need artwork or can it be a whitewood? I dunno.. I get what you are saying and don't disagree but drawing lines around homebrew entries is difficult.

Furthermore, it appears entries are based on your game getting voted in and reviewed by a committee to be included? But you only get to enter it once? And as a designer, I'm not sure you get a say in what year your game is entered if it's just voted in? So what if you only have 30% coded and want to wait till you're 90%? Or can you only win once but enter multiple years? Not clear to me.. and complicated because a lot of homebrews are taking multiple years of development.

A lot of people don't have a choice but to vote off videos of your machine (if you made them, or others made them) or even just pictures, cause they never went to the show you brought it to or got to play.

Ultimately I think having show-based awards makes the most sense. Should you be able to win multiple years then? I dunno..but it makes it more fair in terms of voting, as theoretically everyone who voted at the show had a chance to hopefully play and get a good picture of the machine.

With TWIP, the creator submits their game for consideration when they chose to. You can only enter once (rule change a few years ago).

But yeah...it seems best for a regional show award where people can actually try out the game they're voting on....

Okay? So don't vote for that one. I'm not sure what your point is I guess.

I don't know what happened that year, I wasn't following. It sounds like some people think Jack won because he's popular. No clue if that's true. Clearly he's very talented because he's now a full time playfield designer at Stern, so if you're mad about him winning it doesn't feel like it was a great injustice.

Maybe people voted for a strong layout because they saw what became his future in it. So be it.

I think you can't draw the lines, not in this context.

Nobody voting has spent hours playing the game exploring the code. You're lucky if someone voting has even played the game, period. It's a pointless rabbit hole to go down.

None of this is to put down code. Great code can make a medicore layout exciting. Bad code can ruin the best layout. Of course it's important.

I think everyone who knows me at all would not be surprised that I care about art and theme integration. And that's easy to judge. Do you like the theme? Yay! Does the art look good! Also yay! Can you stop there? Pretty much, just realistically.

But if we're honoring these (often solo) efforts, we should be looking to the people who make games.

The nicest, cleverest, more pretty retheme still stood on the shoulders of giants to get there. I think, without putting down any of the work it takes to make them, that it sucks to see someone who did things from scratch be shunted aside by someone who started on third base.

Don't lump them together and force us to make them compete and fight it out, it's not fair to anyone.

Whatever. I'm done arguing this with someone who admits to not paying attention to the scene.

People will almost exclusively vote on the theme they like the best. That'll be the winner, regardless of how the game plays.

A lot of the TWIPY categories are dumb popularity contests, and I think this is more of that.

This award and the American Pinball Home-brew contest do more harm than good to the community, and I don't think anyone is going to convince me otherwise (especially when they don't do home-brew/rethemes themselves)

Anyways, I think it's unfortunate that the awards are set up in such a way that we end up pitting people against each other. Cuphead was a fantastic build. The Ferris Bueller's retheme looked fantastic also. I don't think making them compete against each other really did a service to the community.

In the words of This Week In Pinball:

Sounds like a good plan to me, add a retheme category.

At the very least do that.
Apparently this opens up a can of worms and they're trying to remove some categories. But there might be more homebrew's then games in production this year.

Ok so I'm not done lol

My issue with adding retheme to the list is it introduces another line to draw in the sand

What is a retheme?

I think Dukes of Hazard is more than a typical Paragon "retheme" (ie someone changed the art). There are physical changes in terms of mechanisms, entirely re-written software, various electronic upgrades, etc... Is this not a home-brew? Should this be in the same category as someone who sands down a Paragon and draws some random art on it? Is it not in the same predicament that a game like Ferris Bueller and Cuphead are in where the amount of work is impressive either way?

Further...

If I redraw a game in CAD and cut the playfield myself is it from scratch? (I think that's what Dukes of Hazard did?) Cuphead started as a virtual pin layout by someone else. Does that matter in any way? Does it matter some makers copy their favorite shots from other games? Sometimes they even copy their favorite shots with the exact same part. Does it matter some people don't make their own parts/electronics/software-libraries/etc? What about people who use established IP over original concepts?

It's all building and iterating on other people's work. That's game development in general.

Why is the layout so fetishized? Most people aren't playing these games! It's all people imagining how it shoots and what the codes/sounds/lights might be like.

Or let's go in the opposite direction and just make a bunch of awards for everyone. Why not add a best original layout? Why not best original art? Best original mech? Best original ruleset for an old game? Everyone who wants to submit a game can get a trophy, the community at large gets to see the wide variety of games in the scene, and no one gets annoyed with contest parameters.

I think part of the problem, as is clearly evidenced by some people in this thread, is that not enough people really understand the work that goes into making a game. At the end of the day you can have all the public discussions you want about categories blah blah blah, but the more educated people are the better they can actually grasp the nuances of said discussions.

Which is really a good argument for the people producing content in this scene to help with that when possible. Awards might be only semi-serious because of how popular voting goes, but that doesn't mean they can't also be opportunities for exposure and education.

Taking your homebrew to a show is easier for some than others, depending on your location, but I doubt anyone would call it easy. And really the same goes for even getting to the right show to see a game. How many people here got a chance to play Iron Maiden when it was still Archer?

Any kind of spotlight helps.

And yet, this isn't just academic. Archer did become Iron Maiden (remarkably intact) and Keith went on to be one of the most refreshing designers in modern pinball. I doubt many would really dispute that. It wouldn't have happened without homebrew.

Jack Danger didn't just pretty much single-handedly get pinball added as a category on Twitch. His interest in game design not only scored him a Twipy, it also led directly to him doing the JP home version, the success of which landed him a "real" job as a designer with Stern. (Well earned too.)

rosh not only contributed some excellent points from hard-earned experience to this thread, his homebrew builds are the reason he is a commercial pinball programmer now.

TheNoTrashCougar absolutely blurred the lines between homebrew and commercial game, before using that to design a highly coveted license.

The point being that this isn't just hobby geekery, or people flexing a trophy cab, homebrew is an established path to the continued health of our industry and hobby. We should give it respect.

Wow what a great discussion evolved here.
That is a really difficult topic. Last year i was a bit dissapointed that a retheme won. It is beautiful made, but i have the feeling that it should be in a different category. and i never heard of that machine before the twipys.
Did you guys had it on your screen and from where? maybe because it was at shows?
Anyway i think the twipys would be a cool chance to honor a homebrew machine. For example Greek Gods is a unique game design and built from scratch, lots of material of the progress, so that you can see all the work that Cmartin1235 put in. Ferris Bueller is really nice, but it is not a unique design. So i would definitly prefer Greek Gods for the win. 2 seperate categories would solve that for me. and i mean people can talk with each other right, so if someone you built a machine has his argument why this machine is a homebrew or a retheme, everyone could get on the same page in which category it should be in.

i will definitly follow this years twipys just because i am interested in the machines. i hope this year it is not just a popularity contest and a cool machine wins.
would be cool when my machine would be mentioned but i don't have to win. Like it was said before i can't get my machines out to people to see them in person.

and itsure would be a good idea that a price is given at a contest at a show. Unfortunately i don't really have the chance to travel to all those shows to see those cool machines.

So I read through these posts and I see some would like two categories for custom pins for the TWIPS, I understand that position but here’s the deal, the lines are being blurred between re-theme and full custom build since there are quite a few re-themes now that also have completely custom code as well. Some might argue that it’s still a re-theme, but there’s still a ton of work that goes into those despite using an existing layout. And on top of that, custom pins are a niche hobby within a niche hobby, how far are you really wanting to break it all down? I myself wouldn’t really care either way and I’ll happily support the TWIPYS with whatever system they’d choose to go with. Just my 2 cents.

I respect anyone that does any kind of homebrewing.

Doing a retheme, you are already halfway there with trusted rules and geometry for whatever game you picked, still a lot of work and deserves respect

Doing a from scratch build, coming up with your own layouts, your own rules, is the epitome of "making a pinball" I would argue this is twice the work with more risk and deserves more respect.

As far as the twippies go they can suck it. They didn't use all the pictures or info I submitted with my game. And I only submitted it because they reached out to me in the first place. They probably just needed to stack the category that year? Who knows.

I think the home brew category is a good thing. It’s a good category to include and putting them together can be an art form to me.

I do not get to play all of them, but I root for the whole sub genre. Go get ‘em tiger I say.

Just my opinion.

I’d love to see a home brew of this game.

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It seems like most homebrewers are dissatisfied with the process, but the community at large wants to see those projects involved.

I don't think it needs to be crazy complicated.

This isn't a judgement of which is "better", or who did more work. We don't need to count the hours as a contest.

A Retheme is taking an existing game, and changing it to be themed differently. Going all out and adding new code is awesome, that should be a consideration for judging. Changing a shot, adding a spinner etc? Also awesome. Vote for that one if you're impressed by it. It sounds super cool to me!

A Homebrew is creating a brand new game from scratch. New layout, cutting your own playfield. Sometimes more raw than a Retheme, can still be a shooting whitewood or have temporary art. Often the feedback from the show is what helps you finish it and then work on final art etc.

"But Aurich" you say, "what if you cut your own playfield from scratch, based on an existing game, but change some of the shots and give it a new theme?" Sounds amazing, just submit it to whichever category feels right to you. If you think you did enough to qualify it as a brand new game then say so and put it up as a Homebrew.

It doesn't need to be a huge deal, but Rethemes are usually focused on a final presentation. They already have a base working game, all the focus is on the "polish". Cool art, new sounds, maybe new code, all the things that are impressive the moment you walk up to it.

Homebrews are often not polished yet. Some may get there. But the energy was in the raw creation of a new game.

The real reason to not combine them is so the strengths of each have a chance to compete for people's attention on a level playing field. Of course the pretty Retheme is going to be easier to vote for, it seems done. Give everyone a chance to be in their own lane.

Also, I just want to quickly say one last thing as an addendum to my post above: I've helped make a game, and all my work was on the side of not just the art, but being involved in the code and sounds. All of that is real work, and in no way am I trying to diminish it. I know it first hand.

So don't think when I call it "polish" I'm being dismissive in any way.

But the point of a retheme is usually to look finished and slick. The point of a homebrew is often to just have a playable game. Lumping them together feels unfair because of course people are going to gravitate towards the polished one. It looks amazing, and the other one might have some bare wood still. You can't blame the general public for liking the shiny one.

As a homebrewer, I am glad that it's included. I am not mad or frustrated at the way they do it. I just feel it would be better served as best re-theme and best scratch build. Not meant to down what either person is doing, as both take tons of skills and time to do.

You have multiple categories on everything else. Having two Homebrew categories isn't hurting anyone. On the flip side, one side isn't hurting anyone either. However, if you take a person who built something from scratch and it loses to a re-theme (regardless of the amount of work), I could understand someone being frustrated. As one is taking a pre-made template and re-dressing it (new rules, theme, etc is all the same) vs someone that has to come up with a complete layout, figure out shots, figure out parts.

There is some of this in re-theming and I think Duke of Hazard blurs these lines. However, most re-themes are not on that level.

Happened to me twice.

Took mine to 3 shows this year: 5400 miles, blew my transmission($5k)- spent $6k for travel, arrangements, gas, etc. Plus time off work. It takes a lot. And for all this, I get a free weekend pass for the show. I did it because it was a fun experience.

It's not This Week In Pinball's job to carry the hobby on their shoulders or anything. But I think we, as a community, should just recognize the effort it takes to share these games. People could just keep them at home and let their friends play test, they don't have to make that extra effort.

Does it potentially boost their ego, or maybe even get them a job with a pinball company? Sure, but the truth is most people just want to share pinball with people.

All I'm arguing for is trying to find a happy medium for encouraging all kinds of cool custom pinball to be brought to shows, and given a little more chance in a spotlight. It seems like a reasonable compromise to just have two categories, and that there are enough games out there to have at least a few entries in each.

A bit of history

I started this homebrew index thread (link below) a number of years ago and then hit up Jeff / Twippy a number of years ago to add a category to the Twippy's recognizing Homebrew which he did but each year factored in weird things. When I originally requested the category I encouraged to check out the dedicated thread as a starting point to short list the years recognised semi complete games.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/homebrew-pinball-games-released-2016-to-current

Twippy's is his thing but each year there were some weird categories and a biased winner one year and games not considered (re-themed) which was disappointing.

Then I got tired of maintaining the thread even though I love the homebrew scene but alot of effort on top of other things. The Deadflip win of a unfinished, non playing game was biased and just annoyed me especially when other finished games were not considered or far better and complete. This last couple of years has been a mess in regards to the Homebrew Twippy's so I don't bother with the Twippy's anymore, BUT love checking out the homebrew threads and Danzig's facebook page Strictly Custom Pinball. Jeff admitted they needed a person to join the committee with a unbiased view to specialise with the homebrew section of the twippy's, came from the year when the Haunted Mansion was given a dud consideration and then given a trophy after the fact due to the backlash.

In regards to the Twippy's to save dramas and issues I would consider:

- 2 categories - full custom homebrew and rethemed homebrew (including some playfield adjustments)
- game released in the last year with video with art, sounds and general rules - fun enough to play a fun game without constant crashing (as I know rules are never finished)
- pre-vote capture the contenders - known finished games and pre-vote submissions and then twippy reaches out to game designers for them to submit a 2min video of game play
- actual twippy has links to the submitted videos and people can select their favourite based on video and having actually played.

Not included:
- games from previous years - they had their turn
- games that are not playable - wait until next year
- games with no art, sound or general rules - they can hope to be done for the next year
- remove the classification that they must attend a show - for example in Australia we only have about 1-2 shows and not everyone is in that position

Can i nominate Kill Bill from Pinnovating?

I've played it, really high quality example of how far you can take a retheme.

But it's 4-5 years at this point, so not really relevant for any talk of the future.

Tough but fair.

Played it with you brother!

This in a nutshell. I am going to spend extra time checking out home brews wherever I go in the future. I’m thinking I may see some at goldenwest pinball later this year.

More attention to the home brew!

Homebrew is what has reinvigorated pinball… it all started with an Archer pin in Keith’s basement… at least that’s the latest version in the myths of pinball. I love seeing homebrews at shows, especially ones that try things that are non-standard by the mainstream manufacturers standards. My absolute dream machine design should be able to place a ball in play at any orbit/lane/shot/kicker/scoop or ramp. Flow can be generated without stop and go if you know what you are doing. I am waiting for that homebrew machine that actually puts mainstream pinball on the backs of their feet, wondering how the designer did it with the exact same coil count as a Stern or JJP or <insert company name here> machine.

Challenge accepted.

Nice . Looking forward!

So I've read through the thread, and it's very exhaustive on covering ideas, opinions, and the like.
I'm a nobody, with no pinball background, other than playing them since the 70s, I'm and electronics/electrical tradesman, and I own a custom guitar business.
I've made the point that I think retheme, and homebrew should be different, but after reading, I'm on the fence now, except for one thing.. the name is homebrew

Little background... restored my first pin last year, a game plan coney island, couldn't have picked a much harder game to find stuff for, but I did it, and it's nearly perfect now.

So I found a basket case space invaders, and I mean full on basket to try my first retheme. (Still no clue what im doing) Took it off the trailer, legs snapped off the cabinet, found mold, and rotted wood in the playfield, everything in it was ruined, and my basket case ended up in a burn pile.
Let's pull the 3 boards that are in it, transformer, and oh my God, let's build a scratch pinball machine!!!

Moving on to my point.... I built a cabinet, I built a backbox, I had glass cut, I had artwork printed up, I've drawn, I've painted by hand, I've hand cut my playfield, and inserts holes.
I've bent wire forms, I've cut ramps out of old ramps, i designed and made my own custom legs, and the list goes on, and on. Yes the work in a retheme is quite extensive, yes, it's hard, and expensive, but here is my stand on the "Homebrew" category, my line in the sand.... I'm not wealthy, but I can make anything, I don't have a team of brilliant artists, and programmers, but I'm smart enough to try things, and blow stuff up in the name of progress. I'm doing this with zero knowledge of what I got into, and I'm building something myself that hopefully I can play and enjoy, and share with others, but the word "homebrew" indicates that "I built it at home", not with a team, not with a starting point, but with an idea, and a bunch a crap I made, found, or swindled on ebay to "brew" up.

As an outsider in the pin game, I take a lot of criticism on how I'm building mine, and that's fine, because most of them haven't even started there's, and never will. I may never make a show, or travel because I have a blue collar job, but I will have the satisfaction of knowing that I did this.
One thing I know as a construction guy, if I build my home, which I did, it's not the same as renovating an existing house. So did you "Brew" your pin, or did you "renovate" it?

Just a lilillittle bit from here and a lililittle bit from there!

16728197201954962703868468254571 (resized).jpg

And just threw a line in for this one!

16728197997184062886195616183443 (resized).jpg

My definition of “homebrew” falls into a single concept- is this the brain child of one man, or multiple people? From the stand point of manufacturers, the “design team” are all listed on the playfield (sometimes), yet we all consider Twilight Zone the brain child of Pat Lawlor. Now I am sure Pat had a hand in pushing forth the theme and the design, but clearly a LOT more people are involved, including the actual construction of the mechanisms, toys, artwork, music, software, light shows, sound effects, call outs, animations, etc… not to mention all the engineering to develope the underlying platform. A true homebrew puts the “hat” of all of these on one person, however, if some of these “hats” require knowledge that the home brewer does not possess , would I kick them out of bed for eating crackers and “contracting it out” to additional people?
I don’t think I would. Now, however, if the basis of this “contracted out” is a lot of “borrowing” from the existing IP of a mainstream title, does this affect my consideration? If asked to judge between a retheme and a completely original design, a mediocre “homebrew” original will win my vote quicker than a slick artwork and cabinet refurbishment, because the breadth of the challenge to wear that many hats and pull it off is something only really gifted and dedicated pinball enthusiasts can do.

I feel like retheme used to be new art, translite, and plastics on an existing game. The wiring remained, as did the entire rule set /roms and thus lighting effects and audio. At some point maybe audio was supplemented with an arduino or something on some, and then you get some branching if more hybrid projects that may involve redoing all wiring, new board sets and scratch rules, audio, and rgb light shows and then even adding mechs to / changing the old playfield. It’s definitely come way closer to blurring the line and just makes it difficult to divide… but I still think it’s fair/makes sense to put games that start with a blank piece of wood / new layout in a different category from modified existing ones. Not to Diminish the work of anyone but some of the focus and experience is still a lot different between the two.

Ultimately in the end though what I really like to see and care about beyond these accolades is just the documentation of builds and I hope anyone making the journey is willing to share the ride with others as it’s both fun to follow and motivating to everyone to keep at their project or maybe start one they’ve been meaning to.

I've held off posting in this thread because honestly it's just the TWIPYS which are meant to be a fun thing, but I 100% agree with swinks. The lack of guidelines around homebrew made the category disappointing and Jack Danger's win was the worst example of it.

When Jack Danger won for an incomplete game that he had a bunch of other people build stuff on, it personally felt like a slap with all the work I had done to get Spaceballs actually finished. The TWIPYS really didn't address it and JD didn't really address it either. With the guidelines still being a debate years later, it seems like very little progress has been made toward making the category something the entire community can get behind.

that's part of why I'm of the opinion to not do awards

homebrew awards seem best as a local show award, where people can actually play and evaluate the games themselves

The number of homebrewers who are familiar with the work involved is only a tiny portion of the voting base. And the bulk of the voting base is going to just vote for what theme/builder they like the most anyhow.

I think Pinball Expo does it best. Any homebrewer can submit a video for them to play during a presentation, and some homebrewers are able to make it in person to do presentations and Q&A sessions with those who are actually curious about homebrews.

I've already expressed how awesome I think Jaws is, but it's a perfect example of why I hate that the categories are lumped together. It's not fair to anyone.

Anyways, it is what it is. I'm simply not going to vote, and will consider the results meaningless.

The problem with Jack Danger’s win “not to diminish it” wasn’t really because there wasn’t a separation of categories or missing guidelines, people will always vote for the popular person, that’s the biggest inherent flaw in “the popular vote” system. There’s other flaws within that system that I won’t even get in to here, whatever the case, I’ll always support the TWIPYS.

the thing with his game was that it was not even playable and no where near finished so it should not have even been considered for voting. Once in the voting line up he has a big audience but Twippy and the committee should of not let him in.