(Topic ID: 260245)

Who wants a Gottlieb Wizard conversion kit aka Abra Cadabra AAB?

By pinhead52

1 year ago


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  • 98 posts
  • 19 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 hours ago by Dono
  • Topic is favorited by 7 Pinsiders

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There are 98 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 1 year ago

I am looking for folks who love Abra Cadabra and had wished Gottlieb had brought out an Add A Ball version. There is now a potential to accomplish that.

In a sense Gottlieb did when they released Team One 2 years later. However Team One just has not seen the interest due to the art package. It has a really good game play to it but certainly is not an A list game, a real sleeper.

Gottlieb in 1971 produced a sample game (AAB) called Wizard probably for the Italian market only (see IPDB for images). The backglass is very similar to the 1975 Abra Cadabra but the body/pf looks nothing like the 1975 game.

What I am proposing to do is contract to get playfields and backglasses made (25 of each) that allows the sleeper game to get the attention it deserves and save the game and make it a centerpiece in our collections.

As a first step into developing retheme kits (and generating enough interest) Ive pulled together a sample Wizard game, pics below. I have taken a reproduction WK Abra playfield and had a local artist change all the scoring labels to match the features of Team One. I also had a couple of needed inserts added by Wade as well. Picture of the raw pf below. Next I worked another photoshop artist to blend the original Wizard backglass art with the “better’ Abra backglass art AND pull in the features of Team One. Certainly trade-offs were made to avoid having to develop a completely new lightboard.

A long story, jumping to the punch line, I looking for 15 folks willing to provide a deposit on a retime kit. (Have 8 so far) With this I’ll contract with Wade for (ie pre-buy) 25 pfs and backglasses. And then either sell a conversion kit with complete instructions or send me a Team One and I’ll convert it for you. I will also have a limited number of Wizard games for sale as well. (Some folks may have noticed Ive been hoarding Team Ones, Im up to 6 so far).

This “sample” Wizard game will be at Texas Pinball Festival for play. Come out and try it.

https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/89563

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#2 1 year ago

Very impressive package!

#3 1 year ago

I'm interested, please add me to your list.

#4 1 year ago

I'm interested but at this point do not have a Team One. Will need to pick one up. Allentown had a nice one last year. I would like to do the conversion myself. Seem like a interesting project. I do have a Abra Ca Dabra. Any idea on the price of the kit. Thanks.

#5 1 year ago
Quoted from fingersport:

I'm interested but at this point do not have a Team One. Will need to pick one up. Allentown had a nice one last year. I would like to do the conversion myself. Seem like a interesting project. I do have a Abra Ca Dabra. Any idea on the price of the kit. Thanks.

Still working out the details with Wade but it will be very similar to what you'd pay for a new pf from Wade and a new bg from Ron or Shay.

Rough Team Ones seem to go in the $500 price range so its very affordable for the do-it-yourselfers.

Pinball Pimp has adjusted his Abra stencils to fit the TeamOne deeper cab.

AND... we are toying with using the letters W I Z A R D instead of the 1 2 3 4 5 6 on the inserts. I will supply the corresponding W and D dip targets.

Another change from the sample, I used the bonus ladder of the Abra pf to indicate the achieved WOWs, normally on the bg. In production we'd move them back to the backglass.

In a day or 2 I'll generate and maintain a list. Ive set my threshold at 15 presigns, have 8 so far. Shouldnt take long to get 7 more.

Ken

#6 1 year ago

Very interested but would need to see a price before I commit

#7 1 year ago

Do you plan to use the American or Italian add-a-ball system?
American: Ball Count unit steps both ways, ranges from 1-10 (plus game over)
Italian: separate "Lightbox Advance" unit holds 0-5 extra balls, indicated by 5 anonymous but similar objects on the backglass, standard Ball Count unit only steps one way

Team One has the American system, which is easier to implement and has the advantage that one can win more than 5 extra balls when the Ball Count unit is low enough. See Federico Croci's book on Italian pinballs for full information on why the Italian system works as it does.
.................David Marston

#8 1 year ago
Quoted from dmarston:

Do you plan to use the American or Italian add-a-ball system?
American: Ball Count unit steps both ways, ranges from 1-10 (plus game over)
Italian: separate "Lightbox Advance" unit holds 0-5 extra balls, indicated by 5 anonymous but similar objects on the backglass, standard Ball Count unit only steps one way
Team One has the American system, which is easier to implement and has the advantage that one can win more than 5 extra balls when the Ball Count unit is low enough. See Federico Croci's book on Italian pinballs for full information on why the Italian system works as it does.
.................David Marston

"Team One" is one of the later add-a-ball games which allows a maximum of five extra balls per ball in play, regardless of where the regular ball in play counter is. "Gold Strike" is the last one which allows more than five "WOW" balls per ball in play if, as you said, the ball count is less than five. Starting with "Bank Shot", all Gottlieb add-a-ball games only allow up to five "WOW" balls per ball in play, regardless of American or Italian markets. The only difference is that the Italian backglasses do not indicate extra balls with any text (such as "WOW"). I do realize that even the earlier Italian add-a-ball games, such as "Lucky Strike", only allow up to five extra balls per ball in play, so maybe that's what you're saying.

#9 1 year ago

That's tempting. I think I love my Team One too much though.

#10 1 year ago

So, basically what I'm saying is that the "Wizard" conversions, being a modification of "Team One", would use the maximum of five "WOW" balls per ball in play, but likely would indicate balls won with the word "WOW". The Italian version of "Team One", "Kicker", is identical, except no word "WOW" on the backglass.

#11 1 year ago
Quoted from ReallifePin:

That's tempting. I think I love my Team One too much though.

This probably isn't for you if you like the soccer theme and artwork of "Team One". As a player, it's almost universally appealing, but it's the theme and art package that is a turn-off for a lot of us, thus the conversion idea.

#12 1 year ago
Quoted from jrpinball:

This probably isn't for you if you like the soccer theme and artwork of "Team One". As a player, it's almost universally appealing, but it's the theme and art package that is a turn-off for a lot of us, thus the conversion idea.

Oh, I totally get the appeal and I think it's a great idea. It actually surprised me a little bit that I am not more interested. It is the best of both worlds. The great art of Abra Cadabra AND the great play of Team One.

#13 1 year ago

Always wanted to combine these two. Awesome!

#14 1 year ago
Quoted from jrpinball:

"Team One" is one of the later add-a-ball games which allows a maximum of five extra balls per ball in play, regardless of where the regular ball in play counter is. "Gold Strike" is the last one which allows more than five "WOW" balls per ball in play if, as you said, the ball count is less than five. Starting with "Bank Shot", all Gottlieb add-a-ball games only allow up to five "WOW" balls per ball in play, regardless of American or Italian markets. The only difference is that the Italian backglasses do not indicate extra balls with any text (such as "WOW"). I do realize that even the earlier Italian add-a-ball games, such as "Lucky Strike", only allow up to five extra balls per ball in play, so maybe that's what you're saying.

Yes, Team One has 5 flags indicating WOW on the bg. My sample Wizard has 5 inserts indicating WOWs. For the production we will put the 5 indicators on the bg probably in the form of red "lit" orbs in the style of the original Wizard game.

#15 1 year ago
Quoted from ReallifePin:

That's tempting. I think I love my Team One too much though.

Yea there will be folks that dont want to destroy their TeamOnes. However if you have a rough TeamOne now, its highly unlikely anybody would make a repro bg. Out of the machines Ive collected so far one has a very nice pf, will certainly offer that up to exiting TO owners that may want an upgrade.

#16 1 year ago
Quoted from seshpilot:

Very interested but would need to see a price before I commit

A Wade pf is $700, a Shay glass is $350. This is our target for the kit. I would think we can hit this for pre-buys, ie you send us $300 as a deposit, fully refundable if we dont pull the trigger and layout $25K up front OR dont get you a pf in 6-9 months. I expect we'll charge a 20% premium for kit sales after we sign up/make the outlay.

Of course I'll offer conversion services.

I have 8 confirmed and 3 "interested", would like to get 15 deposits as the trigger and take a risk on 10 more. I'll have this at TPF for play and hope the judges favor a best original award.

#17 1 year ago

I'm willing to move from interested to confirmed. Please send me further details via PM.

#18 1 year ago
Quoted from pinhead52:

Yea there will be folks that dont want to destroy their TeamOnes. However if you have a rough TeamOne now, its highly unlikely anybody would make a repro bg. Out of the machines Ive collected so far one has a very nice pf, will certainly offer that up to exiting TO owners that may want an upgrade.

Consider me interested in a nice used Team One playfield then! Good luck with this. It's a great idea!

#19 1 year ago

Ok here's the list so far. Havnt taken a single deposit yet, still checking on a few things, liability ins etc. In one instance an individual has shipped me their TO, would think they are pretty committed.

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#20 1 year ago

Put me in for interested.
As I understand it it would be at least $1000 to get BG and PF for possible start of conversion.
I assume another $100-200 for Stencils not including paints or skill and time to paint.

#21 1 year ago

I understand the PF swap, hopefully, would be fairly straight forward,
but would there be much work involved (modifications) to rework the backbox light baffle
to get all the feature lights
and highlighted lit areas to match up with lit bulbs in backbox's light baffle (from Team One donor game)?
Or if you buy a PF from Wade would he also provide a new light baffle board?
What about the plastic set?
Assume AbraCaDabra sets are available from someone and how much?
About $100 each set, hopefully they come with multiple plastics near flippers that always tend to break.
Also need to figure in cost for new pop bumper caps and bodies. ~$50-100.

#22 1 year ago

Could you post a photo of your Wizard BG from a rear view?
Would the Wizard AAB have novelty setting and have BG light bulb scoring for beyond 100K?

#23 1 year ago
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#24 1 year ago

I sold a home use only team one last year for 1K . It was like brand new inside and out. I know where's another HUO team one but I think the price would be streap. Good luck on your venture.

#25 1 year ago

The drop targets would need to be replaced as well.

#26 1 year ago

Seems like it would also be possible to build this in an original 1975 style cabinet with the earlier coin door. That seems like the only real difference mechanically. If someone had an extra Abra cabinet. perhaps the conversion uses the team one back box insert? For the lighting layout and Wows.?

#27 1 year ago
Quoted from pinwiztom:

I understand the PF swap, hopefully, would be fairly straight forward,
but would there be much work involved (modifications) to rework the backbox light baffle
to get all the feature lights
and highlighted lit areas to match up with lit bulbs in backbox's light baffle (from Team One donor game)?
Or if you buy a PF from Wade would he also provide a new light baffle board?
What about the plastic set?
Assume AbraCaDabra sets are available from someone and how much?
About $100 each set, hopefully they come with multiple plastics near flippers that always tend to break.
Also need to figure in cost for new pop bumper caps and bodies. ~$50-100.

Yea Pimp has modified stencils for $150

Yea the pf swap will be straight forward. You'll probably want to replace all the lamp sockets etc and other misc, flipper coils, pop coils etc.

the lightboard, it took me about 6 hours to redo the lightboard because I made some poor choices. When we finalize the design I want to minimize this for the DIYers in the crowd. We could do a radical departure from the TeamOne layout, use the original Wizard glass as is but then we'd have to have a new lightboard cut and maybe 15 hours to swap stuff over. I dont think the crowd would be as receptive to that. So I want to make it very easy to change up.

Anytime you do a restore on a game you are going to drop $400 in parts.

Pinwiztom I'll put you down as interested.

Pinball rescue has the standard plastics set. The only thing really missing will be the dip targets. Ive gotten somebody to 3D print these, we'll need stickers for the W and D we'll use, supplied in the kit.

#28 1 year ago
Quoted from pinwiztom:

Could you post a photo of your Wizard BG from a rear view?
Would the Wizard AAB have novelty setting and have BG light bulb scoring for beyond 100K?

YES! cant loose novelty mode, I just love it on my Neptune. Here is a composite of the Wizard glass showing the novelty scoring.

I do want to show WOW scoring on the glass, will probably not have it on a diagonal like team one, as I mention in an earlier post tempting to use red orbs like the original Wizard glass.

And yes we will get this approved thru the Gottlieb rights holder.

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#29 1 year ago
Quoted from stashyboy:

Seems like it would also be possible to build this in an original 1975 style cabinet with the earlier coin door. That seems like the only real difference mechanically. If someone had an extra Abra cabinet. perhaps the conversion uses the team one back box insert? For the lighting layout and Wows.?

yea any 70's shallow cab would do if they want to closely match Abra. And yes will reuse the TO lightboard.

#30 1 year ago
Quoted from mongi:

I sold a home use only team one last year for 1K . It was like brand new inside and out. I know where's another HUO team one but I think the price would be streap. Good luck on your venture.

650 TeamOnes produced? I have found 5 so far in the 400-600 price range. Was figuring I'll get some more competition now

#31 1 year ago

If anyone has a Team One for sale, or knows of one available, please let me know.

#32 1 year ago
Quoted from Pinballer73:

If anyone has a Team One for sale, or knows of one available, please let me know.

Gottlieb's "Kicker" is the identical export version, so you could use that one too.

#33 1 year ago

Haven't had any luck finding a Team One. If anyone has a lead let me know. I'm in Florida now but will be going up the east coast to go to the Allentown Show then I will be making my way across the midwest all the way to Omaha NE. Anything on or near that path would work. Atlanta area is also a possibility. This way I could save on shipping. You can move me to the confirmed list as long as I can find a donor machine.

#34 1 year ago

Just had a thought. I may be going to the Texas show. If a Team One came up between Florida and Texas it would make up my mind about going to the show. Thanks.

2 weeks later
#35 1 year ago

I plan on bringing a nice Team One to Allentown for Free Play; it will be for sale.

#36 1 year ago

PM sent to Dono.

4 weeks later
#37 1 year ago

I actually really like the idea of WOWs on the playfield, similar to the bonus structure of Abra/Wizard.

#38 1 year ago
Quoted from Dono:

I actually really like the idea of WOWs on the playfield, similar to the bonus structure of Abra/Wizard.

Me too. But so far the polling data suggests it needs to be on the backglass at least. it would be nice to have it both places. It would be a minor pain in rewiring for the kit buyers.

Had my prototype out at a pub last night last night and it got a lot of play.

Will be getting serious with Wade on production as soon as he finishes C37.

Ken

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#39 1 year ago

Interested

#40 1 year ago

A kit to convert your own machine or would you buy one of the 6-8 games I'll have available?

#41 1 year ago

I had a chance to play Abra Ca Dabra a bunch this past weekend, and although I liked it, to me it just wasn't on the same level as Team One... I just like Team One's rule set... I also like the 5/6 targets up top as alternate ways of making those numbers from the rollovers down bottom. I was planning on selling my game after completely going through it, but now I may go ahead with the conversion... haven't yet decided.

#42 1 year ago
Quoted from pinhead52:

Me too. But so far the polling data suggests it needs to be on the backglass at least. it would be nice to have it both places. It would be a minor pain in rewiring for the kit buyers.
Had my prototype out at a pub last night last night and it got a lot of play.
Will be getting serious with Wade on production as soon as he finishes C37.
Ken[quoted image]

Good point, didn't think about that!

#43 1 year ago
Quoted from Dono:

Good point, didn't think about that!

Hey Dono, do me a fav and look into the scoring at 5 WOWs. It probably just needs a contact on the WOW stepper. Maybe I can incorporate into Wizard

#44 1 year ago

Just for the record, if anyone does this with a Team One with a nice playfield/backglass I'd love to take them off your hands!

#45 1 year ago
Quoted from ReallifePin:

Just for the record, if anyone does this with a Team One with a nice playfield/backglass I'd love to take them off your hands!

yes ill have a very nice pair...

#46 1 year ago
Quoted from ReallifePin:

Just for the record, if anyone does this with a Team One with a nice playfield/backglass I'd love to take them off your hands!

All tribute to ReallifePin. Hope that you get a good glass out of this.

I would also like to see if there is an extra nice backglass from someone. My Team One Playfield is pretty good, so it's just a glass with the Reds intact I am looking for.

#47 1 year ago
Quoted from jbovenzi:

All tribute to reallifepin. Hope that you get a good glass out of this.
I would also like to see if there is an extra nice backglass from someone. My Team One Playfield is pretty good, so it's just a glass with the Reds intact I am looking for.

One of the machines I have does have a nice backglass although Im hesitant to sell it right now, want to get the project started first.

#48 1 year ago
Quoted from jbovenzi:

All tribute to reallifepin. Hope that you get a good glass out of this.
I would also like to see if there is an extra nice backglass from someone. My Team One Playfield is pretty good, so it's just a glass with the Reds intact I am looking for.

I'm really just after a playfield and plastics and hopefully have someone willing to sell me theirs when the time comes. The more Team Ones we can get upgraded from this project the better!

#49 1 year ago
Quoted from ReallifePin:

I'm really just after a playfield and plastics and hopefully have someone willing to sell me theirs when the time comes. The more Team Ones we can get upgraded from this project the better!

I can't help you with a full set of plastics, but here's a couple:

http://www.pinballrescue.net/Plastics_Team_One.html

I did order these because those smaller ones keep getting broken. I also invested in the plastic protector set for Abra Ca Dabra and installed them under my current plastics.

#50 1 year ago
Quoted from pinhead52:

Hey Dono, do me a fav and look into the scoring at 5 WOWs. It probably just needs a contact on the WOW stepper. Maybe I can incorporate into Wizard

Just seeing this, I'll look into it today.

There are 98 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.

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