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(Topic ID: 180145)

Who rebuilds TZ clocks?


By MeNaCeFiRe

3 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 27 posts
  • 18 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by knazzo
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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#1 3 years ago

I have one with small issues. I'm looking to send it out and have it rebuilt 100%. Anyone out there that can do this?

11
#2 3 years ago

Everyone who buys a TZ! HEY-O

#3 3 years ago

Why bother rebuilding, it's $130 for the board from Ingo, you get rainbow and other colored LEDs and I have never heard of a single board failure. He does great work.

#4 3 years ago
Quoted from Lermods:

Why bother rebuilding, it's $130 for the board from Ingo, you get rainbow and other colored LEDs and I have never heard of a single board failure. He does great work.

Totally agree...but if you want I have a fully functional original board I would sell ya for a lot less.

#5 3 years ago

the thing with original boards is you fix one thing, something else goes. It's just not worth the headache and after 20+ years, getting a new better board for such a small amount seems like a no brainier. I'm sure the next buyer would look favorably upon an Ingo board, I would.

#6 3 years ago

The Rottendog clock board works well too and costs a bit less if you are worried about price.

#7 3 years ago

My experience - I rebuilt my original several times before I finally ordered the Rottendog board. The first one did not work so I returned it for a replacement - it also did not work. Told by the company "we got a bad batch". They refunded me and I ordered the Ingo board. That was >3 years ago (his first purple version) - never had an issue since. About a year ago I had him send me the color changing LEDS and swapped them for the cool white I initially ordered. Absolutely awesome product. Eliminates the "clock broken" error by somehow (I'm not an engineer) separating that function.

Well worth the cost and if you buy from him he will treat you like a customer for life and completely supports his products.

#9 3 years ago

Rottendog board failed within a year for me. Ingo board works like a champ, it just feels high quality components. The difference is easily recognizable IMO. I've had Ingo board for at least two years and works flawlessly.

#10 3 years ago
Quoted from MeNaCeFiRe:

I have one with small issues. I'm looking to send it out and have it rebuilt 100%. Anyone out there that can do this?

Is there mechanical as well as electronic issue's? Does the clock rotate as well as the hands moving?

#11 3 years ago
Quoted from Jenk540i:

I finally ordered the Rottendog board. The first one did not work so I returned it for a replacement - it also did not work.

Have had my Rottendog board for a year now and it's working perfect. Only drawback is it does not work with GI-OCD

#12 3 years ago

Here's a brand new design, using "carpet lighting" for the clock face:

http://www.casperselectronics.com/cart/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=967

#13 3 years ago
Quoted from ramegoom:

Here's a brand new design, using "carpet lighting" for the clock face:
http://www.casperselectronics.com/cart/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=967

It looks like you're still driving the switch matrix directly. Which is the major flaw of the original, and every replacement since, except Ingo's.

--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
borygard at gmail dot com

#14 3 years ago

I believe the op is asking for his clock to be rebuilt, not necessarily just the board. Op are you looking for someone to replace the housing, gears, boards etc?

#15 3 years ago
Quoted from MikeS:

The Rottendog clock board works well too and costs a bit less if you are worried about price.

I saw you got a thumbs down for recommending Rottendog? What's wrong with their board?

#16 3 years ago
Quoted from jrrdw:

Is there mechanical as well as electronic issue's? Does the clock rotate as well as the hands moving?

Mechanical. Reading up a little more on the clock it seems lubing the gears and replacing the clock board should do the trick

#17 3 years ago
Quoted from Borygard:

It looks like you're still driving the switch matrix directly. Which is the major flaw of the original, and every replacement since, except Ingo's.
--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
borygard at gmail dot com

Not exactly a major flaw. The underlying cause for failure was actually the interconnect system which would age, and pick up resistance between the connections. The heat from the original incandescent lamps added to the "derating" of the connectors, even the edge connectors. THAT is what caused early failure on the original design.

#18 3 years ago
Quoted from inhomearcades:

I believe the op is asking for his clock to be rebuilt, not necessarily just the board. Op are you looking for someone to replace the housing, gears, boards etc?

I was looking for a service to just mail out the clock to and they would fix. Looking further into it I realized it's not as hard as I thought

#19 3 years ago

I'm amazed no one has made a plug and play new TZ clock yet.

LTG : )

#20 3 years ago
Quoted from ramegoom:

Not exactly a major flaw. The underlying cause for failure was actually the interconnect system which would age, and pick up resistance between the connections. The heat from the original incandescent lamps added to the "derating" of the connectors, even the edge connectors. THAT is what caused early failure on the original design.

Oh, it's definitely a MAJOR flaw, and a horrible design decision.

The other stuff you say is true, and certainly contributes to the very bad design and failure of the original, and others that copy it.

--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
borygard at gmail dot com

#21 3 years ago
Quoted from Borygard:

Oh, it's definitely a MAJOR flaw, and a horrible design decision.

I suppose we can agree to disagree here.

Major flaw and horrible design aren't how I'd describe an OEM design that has been, at least in some cases, fully functional since the 90's. Well, not many, but some....still, 20+ years.

My guess is the clock boards whose lamps have all burned out early-on, have been the survivors.

#22 3 years ago
Quoted from ramegoom:

Not exactly a major flaw. The underlying cause for failure was actually the interconnect system which would age, and pick up resistance between the connections. The heat from the original incandescent lamps added to the "derating" of the connectors, even the edge connectors. THAT is what caused early failure on the original design.

That is not entirely true. The heat did cause lots of problems but the heat problems were easily fixable.

The biggest flaw with the original design was Williams choice of opto's and using them to drive the switch matrix directly. There is no margin for error when using an opto directly across the Wms switch matrix. The standard opto's had a VCE-sat in excess of 1V **at the high IC-on current used by the switch matrix**. Williams had to have QVE11233.0086 opto's special made and these were just barely under the VCEsat threshold needed for the Williams switch matrix to detect a switch closure. But to get this lower threshold, Williams drove the parts at the absolute maximum limits resulting quite a bit more heat generation and a less than stellar lifespans. Now the special order 0086 optos out there are pretty much used up and are getting quite rare so this makes them difficult to repair existing boards.
Somewhere on RGP there is an end to end analysis of the switch chain using these optos. Can't find it, written too long ago.

RD did the exact same thing that Williams did. RD didn't redesign the board; they simply copied the existing design for the switch matrix - including the biggest design flaw. To get around 0086 opto availability, RD special ordered optos with the same specs.

Proper way to fix this? Look at any recent Stern board that use optos.

The Ingo board is a complete redesign in the switch matrix area. They don't make an attempt to directly drive the switch matrix directly with the opto. They use optos to detect the clock movement but use separate drivers for the switch matrix. Increases reliability tremendously.

All of the new designs replaced the lamps with optos. That is a plus for all of the boards.
I like the LED's used on that Caspers board. But if they put the opto directly across the switch matrix....

#23 3 years ago

I had an issue with my Ingo board right away and not only did he stand behind it 100% he went the extra mile and gave me free sets of led's for it. Its worked flawlessly since. I would not hesitate to buy another one or any of his products.

#24 3 years ago
Quoted from MeNaCeFiRe:

I was looking for a service to just mail out the clock to and they would fix. Looking further into it I realized it's not as hard as I thought

You can send it to me to be rebuilt and "bulletproofed", I've done plenty, and have stock of all the proper parts, but I'd definitely recommend Ingo's board. Either way, you'll not likely ever have a clock problem again.

You can get Ingo's clock board directly from his site in Germany, or mine in the US.

--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
borygard at gmail dot com

#25 3 years ago

I seen this one on ebay. ebay.com link

All sarcasm aside, is that a legit price?

#26 3 years ago

Well, all the parts are available to make your own clock. This doesn't include the metal mounting plate with the 2 lamp sockets so technically that isn't a complete clock assembly.
It could be made as it is in that auction for around $250 give or take.

1 year later
#27 1 year ago

If still needed, i have some original NOS QVE11233.0086 Optos for sale.

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