(Topic ID: 214657)

Who is second guessing their jjp potc preorder


By bigd1979

1 year ago



Topic Stats

  • 677 posts
  • 186 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by bemmett
  • Topic is favorited by 17 Pinsiders

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Topic poll

“Are you gonna cancel your order if the new spinning disk configuration stays?”

  • Yes 230 votes
    63%
  • No 70 votes
    19%
  • Gonna wait it out till my order is ready and then decide 68 votes
    18%

(368 votes)

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Post #15 Video from the designer explaining the changes Posted by bigd1979 (1 year ago)


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#138 1 year ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Before anyone actually cancels I would say wait for JJP's response. Why? JJP has proven to us that they listen to customer feedback. With the Hobbit they went through and made a ton of positive changes to the game after first revealing it based on community feedback. Maybe something similar will happen here with POTC.

Let's hope it doesn't go The Hobbit route - tons of delays, revamps, and changes and then a release well after the last movie hit DVD when the promotional impact was gone. I say JJP should take their lumps, code the hell out of what they have left and move on to more profitable, less controversial waters with Toy Story and Willy Wonka.

#139 1 year ago
Quoted from MK6PIN:

A sad day in JJP land.....hope they sell enough to keep going....

They're going to be just fine, but the sooner they get what has become a release disaster behind them and move on to more profitable releases, the better.

#141 1 year ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

In talking to Eric at MGC today that Is the final decision and what you see is what is happening! Let production begin. I SO feel for Eric as he is one Super creative and talented guy. This change to his masterpiece would crush most artists spirits.

Taking your lumps on the first time out will build character and temper unrealistic ambition. He'll be fine. He clearly has a lot of talent.

#161 1 year ago
Quoted from krunch:

bait and switch yuck

It wasn't intentional, so it can't be bait and switch. It's just unfortunate, that's all.

#217 1 year ago
Quoted from bgwilly31:

I'd be stunned if jjp doesn't rethink their initial announcement after this and go back to the drawing board. I don't speak for all obviously but I a $500 discount is not going to matter to the actual buyers out there. So it better not just be a discount. They need to add some other cool features.
However I'm stunned they were silly enough to ever make this announcement and think it was going to go over well either. So what does anybody know. Lol

Really, they have two choices - take their lumps and release Pirates with the catastrophically unpopular changes, or delay the machine to give time to redesign and test the wheel mech with belts instead of gears and do a release switcheroo with Toy Story. Depends on how much they want to save Pirates and how far along Toy Story is.

I say take their lumps and move on to better stories ahead is the correct move. Even if it's fixed with a delay, this game will always be tainted by this development.

#223 1 year ago
Quoted from bgwilly31:

It's the biggest pinside blow up I've personally seen.
That's for sure. But very little info has been released about the changes. Seeing the new disc in action with different art. And then they add a new feature or two. And I could see that being enough.

I dunno, the video from the designer is pretty final and self-explanatory:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/jjpotc-updates-for-production

The depressing part is where he is introducing the new wheel, had nothing good to say about it and ends up at "You can see the art there and how it looks...um <sharp head nod>...and there it is" then moves on. He's clearly not happy about the situation.

#226 1 year ago
Quoted from Buzz:

I really think they could knock a music pin out the park with strong visual stimulation and basic playfield layout

Like say....Guns n Roses?

#228 1 year ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

After potentially over $1 million in lost sales JJP may change something.

It's a lot in unearned dollars, but in percentage terms likely 5% or less of total lifetime sales. The real dollars opportunity cost to fix it may be more expensive than just taking the lumps now.

#238 1 year ago
Quoted from JJHLH:

Wow, I’m surprised to hear that. I always figured they sold at least a thousand of each of their titles. If they only sell hundreds then losing sales would be even more painful.

JJP sells in the thousands - multiple thousands sometimes. Anyone telling you otherwise is a moron. You don't re-up the WoZ license again if it's not selling well.

-1
#240 1 year ago
Quoted from Psw757:

I’m just taking a guess but Di has 420 owners on pinside and that includes operator locations. Can’t see how they have sold thousands. Woz is at 1100 and hobbit around 580 pinsiders and locations.
They just aren’t super high volume is the point I was trying to make.

Pinside is not the world. JJP is definitely selling more than in the hundreds per game.

#245 1 year ago
Quoted from Psw757:

True but it is a pretty large segment of a relatively small hobby/gaming world community.

But not a big segment of the amusement world at large. There are plenty of operators who have never even been to pinside and, believe it or not, plenty more who have never even heard of it.

#246 1 year ago
Quoted from Psw757:

I think multiple thousands is an awfully strong statement. I would truly be amazed if they have sold more than 2000-2500 Woz.

It's really not that hard, especially for WoZ, to figure out, even without inside information.

ECLE was 1000 units confirmed. Those sales were completed YEARS ago. That leaves only 1000 units to sell to reach 2000, split between the "Standard" EC version and the Ruby Red one. Ruby Red came out almost FOUR years ago, and Jack re-upped the WoZ license last year, calling it "evergreen" for sales.

Lets say the Standard sold 500. That would leave the Ruby Red to have sold 500, which is only 125/year (over 4 years) - ~10 units a month. It did better than that, and Jack's re-up is a strong indicator that it will continue to do so. That conjecture alone, with no inside information used, reasonably puts the three versions of WoZ at 2000 units total. But I'll tell you it's more.

#249 1 year ago
Quoted from Psw757:

True but it is a pretty large segment of a relatively small hobby/gaming world community.
Edit - as I stated the point I was trying to make is they aren’t Stern. They maybe do one title per year or so and aren’t a super high volume producer. If there is a serious blunder it could be devastating to JJP.

Pirates really screwed up Jack's plan to have 2018 be the year they finally get to 2 titles released a year. His goal is to get to three a year, which will now likely be 2020 at the earliest. With his deep-pockets investor he now has the capital to do it. JJP just has to get through the growing pains. They're condensing the decades of growth and learning of Stern and Bally/Williams into a very short time and it's not always going to be smooth sailing. But kudos to them for plugging away at it and raising the bar for EVERYONE in the process. You wouldn't have seen a PRO Iron Maiden that looks as good it does without JJP and AP heating up the expectations of the market.

Now if they'd just move that moronic new knee-level headphone jack placement on DI and Pirates, sales would really take off!

#252 1 year ago
Quoted from dnapac:

I, whole heartedly, agree. Competition is good. Pinball is in a new renaissance. Such a good time for all pinball, after being all but dead a few years ago. The triple disc was cool, and I hope JJP figures out something better than the pizza disc offered.

Actually, I think something like the animated lights wheel Aurich suggested, but instead with a smaller spinning wheel inside that has the old two inner rings printed on it with animated lights, and the outer ring being stationary and printed on the playfield would retain elements of motion and the original "feel" without having a giant pizza in the middle of the PF. The small wheel spins and the lights animate on the outer stationary PF-printed ring to coordinate with the on-screen bonus. The visual effect should be close to the three spinners. Close enough, at least.

#256 1 year ago
Quoted from pinaholic:

A smaller wheel that spins both ways in various speeds would be ok. As long as it's not always spinning. Combine it with some nearby under pf magnets. Can you have a smaller magnet in the middle that could grab the ball ?

X-Men or Twister style, I guess so, but I don't think it would add much.

#260 1 year ago
Quoted from Zavadoza:

I asked at TPF last month how many Dialed In machines have been sod and the answer was ~1,200. I imagine that number is what has left the factory (so including current distribution stock).

Pretty good for the first 11 months. They should easily top 2000, with no licensing royalties, to boot.

#278 1 year ago
Quoted from JY64:

I do not remember if the original LE runs for WOZ and TH were 1,000 or 1,500 but they did sell out DI LE at 2,500 has not

Both WoZ and TH had INCREDIBLY long lead times of YEARS with all the delays and revamps, so it's no surprise their lower-run LEs were sold out shortly after launch. DI LE at about halfway to 2500 LEs in 11 months is pretty impressive for a ~$9,000 machine. Stern is too afraid to even try 166 more LEs on THEIR BEST MACHINE IN YEARS when it makes total sense, preferring to stay at 500, while JJP is producing 5x more. That's confidence.

#282 1 year ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

Confidence, or JJP doesn't care if they sell out of an LE promptly (or ever, I guess). Production is just as limited as if it were an LE of 1,000,000 -- still limited so long as they never make more than that, but not really designed to make people buy due to a fear of missing out, and won't demand a premium beyond whatever the extras at the LE level (invisiglass, shaker, etc.) are worth. I have zero problem with this, even if it does seem funny that JJP's LEs will always be less rare than their Standards.

That's why they should really call their LEs SEs. They're more Special Editions than Limited, even if they are technically limited. But their CEs definitely need a LOT more pizazz to justify their $12,500 price.

#284 1 year ago
Quoted from TheWizard00:

Ah yes, insult the company who leaves money on the table to actually keep something limited even after they see how fast they all sell out, while defending the company who sells a number of LE's, then goes oh wait, that wasn't enough so we are making this NEW LE model that is better then the first LE. Oh that didnt work either, well with this game we will have a model called the LE but we are just going to produce thousands of them until they stop selling, thus making the LE term completely useless. Thats not confidence, thats selling your product as something its not, and a shitty business practice.

Wait, are you really trying to say Stern isn't guilty of this same thing? With TWO LEs for AC/DC and then an THIRD Premium that was actually more rare than the LEs were, becoming accidentally sought after as a result? You picked a losing line of debate.

-3
#287 1 year ago
Quoted from ronaldvg:

Actually the first Luci did not sell at all. I remember it being put for sale from a distributor for way less than the original price and it still did not sell quickly. They got sought after later.

Of course. But making a very low run "special" Premium that was essentially a stealth LE with new art was just as "unethical" as what the other poster was decrying. That was the point.

#288 1 year ago
Quoted from TheWizard00:

Actually Stern made 500 Le's total, with 300 being one package and 200 the other package, when people ordered they knew they could pick between the 2, both options were available up front. They didn't buy one game, and then after those all sold out, thinking they had something unique and limited find out the company was then then making ANOTHER Le. Luci also wasn't pitched as a Le or limited run, that happened on its own after the fact that most people who wanted an AC/DC already had one.

I know the story (we have a LTBR LE here). But Luci was essentially a stealth LE with all-new art to juice the AC/DC license a bit more, and ended up being the rarest of them all, making it sought-after as time went on. Exactly the kind of thing that was being decried with JJP.

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#296 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

I have no idea what you guys are arguing about but you realize Luci was "very low run" because there was no interest in it and it didn't sell, right?
It didn't become a coveted "LE" until later. No nefarious evil doings on Stern's part.

The POINT was pinball manufacturers have made additional runs with new art before, undercutting existing LEs. This isn't a JJP-only thing.

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#323 1 year ago
Quoted from PDX_Pinball:

Did JJP clarify if it was a "getting the game play right" or a "durability of the mech" issue?

I believe I read somewhere it was the durability of the mech over time. I should have saved the link, but something about gears stripping (bad) vs belts (requiring a redesign). Might have been BS, but it seemed sensible.

#329 1 year ago
Quoted from Eryeal:

You are so far away from reality. You think a car dealership gets their cars from the manufacturer for $20k and sells them for $40k as well?
A 100% markup may apply to some smaller, low-cost retail items - clothes, shoes, etc. But there are many, many items that are around +/-10%: video games, consoles, legos, cars, machinery, etc etc.

Video games are absolutely not on a 10% margin at wholesale or retail. This I can say with authority.

13
#408 1 year ago
Quoted from bgwilly31:

I definitely do not blame the design team for this. This was a higher up order. Your out of time get it done by "x" date no questions asked. Which is completely out of character for the type of company jjp is supposed to be. I think just about everybody on the pre order list would have been willing to wait another 6 months for a proper fix. Original discs or at least a reasonable equal quality replacement. But this is being ignored.

"Delays are temporary, mediocrity is forever" definitely applies. Looks like they're settling for mediocrity. Disappointing.

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