Let's hope it doesn't go The Hobbit route - tons of delays, revamps, and changes and then a release well after the last movie hit DVD when the promotional impact was gone. I say JJP should take their lumps, code the hell out of what they have left and move on to more profitable, less controversial waters with Toy Story and Willy Wonka.

They're going to be just fine, but the sooner they get what has become a release disaster behind them and move on to more profitable releases, the better.

Taking your lumps on the first time out will build character and temper unrealistic ambition. He'll be fine. He clearly has a lot of talent.

It wasn't intentional, so it can't be bait and switch. It's just unfortunate, that's all.

Really, they have two choices - take their lumps and release Pirates with the catastrophically unpopular changes, or delay the machine to give time to redesign and test the wheel mech with belts instead of gears and do a release switcheroo with Toy Story. Depends on how much they want to save Pirates and how far along Toy Story is.

I say take their lumps and move on to better stories ahead is the correct move. Even if it's fixed with a delay, this game will always be tainted by this development.

I dunno, the video from the designer is pretty final and self-explanatory:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/jjpotc-updates-for-production

The depressing part is where he is introducing the new wheel, had nothing good to say about it and ends up at "You can see the art there and how it looks...um <sharp head nod>...and there it is" then moves on. He's clearly not happy about the situation.

Like say....Guns n Roses?

It's a lot in unearned dollars, but in percentage terms likely 5% or less of total lifetime sales. The real dollars opportunity cost to fix it may be more expensive than just taking the lumps now.

JJP sells in the thousands - multiple thousands sometimes. Anyone telling you otherwise is a moron. You don't re-up the WoZ license again if it's not selling well.

Pinside is not the world. JJP is definitely selling more than in the hundreds per game.

I know.

But not a big segment of the amusement world at large. There are plenty of operators who have never even been to pinside and, believe it or not, plenty more who have never even heard of it.

It's really not that hard, especially for WoZ, to figure out, even without inside information.

ECLE was 1000 units confirmed. Those sales were completed YEARS ago. That leaves only 1000 units to sell to reach 2000, split between the "Standard" EC version and the Ruby Red one. Ruby Red came out almost FOUR years ago, and Jack re-upped the WoZ license last year, calling it "evergreen" for sales.

Lets say the Standard sold 500. That would leave the Ruby Red to have sold 500, which is only 125/year (over 4 years) - ~10 units a month. It did better than that, and Jack's re-up is a strong indicator that it will continue to do so. That conjecture alone, with no inside information used, reasonably puts the three versions of WoZ at 2000 units total. But I'll tell you it's more.

Pirates really screwed up Jack's plan to have 2018 be the year they finally get to 2 titles released a year. His goal is to get to three a year, which will now likely be 2020 at the earliest. With his deep-pockets investor he now has the capital to do it. JJP just has to get through the growing pains. They're condensing the decades of growth and learning of Stern and Bally/Williams into a very short time and it's not always going to be smooth sailing. But kudos to them for plugging away at it and raising the bar for EVERYONE in the process. You wouldn't have seen a PRO Iron Maiden that looks as good it does without JJP and AP heating up the expectations of the market.

Now if they'd just move that moronic new knee-level headphone jack placement on DI and Pirates, sales would really take off!

Actually, I think something like the animated lights wheel Aurich suggested, but instead with a smaller spinning wheel inside that has the old two inner rings printed on it with animated lights, and the outer ring being stationary and printed on the playfield would retain elements of motion and the original "feel" without having a giant pizza in the middle of the PF. The small wheel spins and the lights animate on the outer stationary PF-printed ring to coordinate with the on-screen bonus. The visual effect should be close to the three spinners. Close enough, at least.

X-Men or Twister style, I guess so, but I don't think it would add much.

Pretty good for the first 11 months. They should easily top 2000, with no licensing royalties, to boot.

Both WoZ and TH had INCREDIBLY long lead times of YEARS with all the delays and revamps, so it's no surprise their lower-run LEs were sold out shortly after launch. DI LE at about halfway to 2500 LEs in 11 months is pretty impressive for a ~$9,000 machine. Stern is too afraid to even try 166 more LEs on THEIR BEST MACHINE IN YEARS when it makes total sense, preferring to stay at 500, while JJP is producing 5x more. That's confidence.

That's why they should really call their LEs SEs. They're more Special Editions than Limited, even if they are technically limited. But their CEs definitely need a LOT more pizazz to justify their $12,500 price.

Wait, are you really trying to say Stern isn't guilty of this same thing? With TWO LEs for AC/DC and then an THIRD Premium that was actually more rare than the LEs were, becoming accidentally sought after as a result? You picked a losing line of debate.

Of course. But making a very low run "special" Premium that was essentially a stealth LE with new art was just as "unethical" as what the other poster was decrying. That was the point.

I know the story (we have a LTBR LE here). But Luci was essentially a stealth LE with all-new art to juice the AC/DC license a bit more, and ended up being the rarest of them all, making it sought-after as time went on. Exactly the kind of thing that was being decried with JJP.

castle_18-04-03 (resized).jpg

The POINT was pinball manufacturers have made additional runs with new art before, undercutting existing LEs. This isn't a JJP-only thing.

Number-Cat (resized).jpg

I believe I read somewhere it was the durability of the mech over time. I should have saved the link, but something about gears stripping (bad) vs belts (requiring a redesign). Might have been BS, but it seemed sensible.

Video games are absolutely not on a 10% margin at wholesale or retail. This I can say with authority.

"Delays are temporary, mediocrity is forever" definitely applies. Looks like they're settling for mediocrity. Disappointing.