(Topic ID: 214657)

Who is second guessing their jjp potc preorder

By bigd1979

1 year ago

Topic Stats

  • 677 posts
  • 186 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by bemmett
  • Topic is favorited by 17 Pinsiders


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Topic poll

“Are you gonna cancel your order if the new spinning disk configuration stays?”

  • Yes 230 votes
  • No 70 votes
  • Gonna wait it out till my order is ready and then decide 68 votes

(368 votes)

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Post #15 Video from the designer explaining the changes Posted by bigd1979 (1 year ago)

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#112 1 year ago

That's idea makes no sense. Do your research on why the discs spin the way they did from the movie itself. The spinning map is a prop from the movie. Separated like that doesn't follow the theme whatsoever.

#216 1 year ago
Quoted from JY64:

There is a lot of speculation that things will get fixed like TH not happening

I'd be stunned if jjp doesn't rethink their initial announcement after this and go back to the drawing board. I don't speak for all obviously but I a $500 discount is not going to matter to the actual buyers out there. So it better not just be a discount. They need to add some other cool features.

However I'm stunned they were silly enough to ever make this announcement and think it was going to go over well either. So what does anybody know. Lol

#218 1 year ago
Quoted from vireland:

Really, they have two choices - take their lumps and release Pirates with the catastrophically unpopular changes, or delay the machine to give time to redesign and test the wheel mech with belts instead of gears and do a release switcheroo with Toy Story. Depends on how much they want to save Pirates and how far along Toy Story is.
I say take their lumps and move on to better stories ahead is the correct move. Even if it's fixed with a delay, this game will always be tainted by this development.

It's the biggest pinside blow up I've personally seen.
That's for sure. But very little info has been released about the changes. Seeing the new disc in action with different art. And then they add a new feature or two. And I could see that being enough.

#319 1 year ago
Quoted from spinal:

Thanks for your wonderful addition to this thread criticizing the fact that we are even offering suggestions.
Missing the plot here. If you haven't noticed we are discussing details about the hardware, how it was released, the future of JJP, possible solutions etc. We never think there is some high probability that JJP will all of a sudden do a 180 but JJP have been responsive in the past so we're holding out hope.
The manner in which this was announced and the severity of the cutbacks (this was an expensive main feature of the game) is leaving us all a bit stunned. It really is like a punch in the gut from the company we love.
Now the plot...
Many of us have been discussing possible solutions to what was expressed as the problem in the first place... the fact the 3 spinning disc assembly is unreliable and is too loud. A good compromise has already been suggested here: keep the hardware exactly as is and just use the rings in a different way. Not for imparting action with high speeds but rather very slow moving rings that are programmed to be part of the gameplay. This solution is silent and reliable to the best of our knowledge. Yes this suggestion gives up all the spinning action it would impart upon the ball but we would still get the very cool piece of hardware and as previous post have discussed, could even improve the game.
Now it's quite possible that JJP have thought of this and decided to remove the entire assembly. Now if JJP did think of this, then why would they yank it? Do you think Eric would really decide to remove the centerpiece of the game? Remember that this is central to the theme of the game and the element of this game that Eric was most proud of during release vids.
So let's assume that by some chance they did not think of using the disc slowly. It's really such a good idea that if they don't pivot and go with something like this now, then it's clear that it wasn't in fact reliability or volume that was a problem - it was something else.
Now this is going to come out one way or another but if it's the case that they are lying to us hobbyists and really this was a cost-cutting measure or something, then should we really be happy about this? Let's not forget those in Europe who have non-refundable deposits -not cool.
Anyway, those of you who take everything and anything the way it comes and feel your completely powerless all the time - good for you. But please don't criticize those of use who are offering suggestions and typing in real content into our posts instead of jokes or personal insults. We care about this hobby and care greatly about the future of JJP and just want this to work out the best it can at this point. JJP have pivoted and improved upon mistakes they've made in the past and we're hoping that this is just another mistake that they will rectify. I really hope this is not a new kind of JJP we are seeing here.

I agree exactly with all of your points and I've noticed your concern throughout all the threads which I also applaud. I feel the same way.

However you talk about the two main ideas people have brought up like jjp hadn't thought of them. I'd imagine they have and there are major reasons why they haven't gone that route. Most likely just mechanically not possible without major redesign. I think it's a high chance they thought of a lot of different routes but chose the one they went with for whatever reason. But again your comment comes off like the two fixes that were shared are easy. And I doubt they are.
I do agree the chest not opening is bogus. That came across a very lazy way to fix that.
I'm in the boat of waiting to see the single disc in action on Wednesday. I do think at minimum they will change the art, that they displayed. Im pretty sure the image we saw was just photoshopped.
I also think at minimum the one single disc should still be incorporated with some led inserts of some kind. That would improve the look greatly.

#320 1 year ago
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

As I work directly with distributors and those that buy quantities more than a single game, there are additional factors.
Distributor profit is determined by the number of games purchased (preorders), previous sales, and length of relationship.
Rarely do they presently make more than $500 for games today (pinball considerations only, as different types of games are more or less negotiable), even LEs as even operators will not buy them if extremely marked up based on production costs. Keeping in mind even operators do not always get any type of "deep discount" either.
However, the main point of this thread is that removal of features of games, normally is a result of cost savings not reliability. JJP most likely made an error with BOM and development, and now is going to attempt damage control by adding back some type of low cost cosmetic solution to appease customers.
For those that may not have been involved until recently, this also happened with WoZ and TH, but simply less people were aware or cared when it happened.

Can you elaborate on what happened with woz and TH? I'm newer to the hobby and unaware.

#326 1 year ago
Quoted from spinal:

The leading proposal at
requires no changes at all be made to hardware.
It requires only that:
1. The disc as it is has the ability to report via sensor (optos) what position it is in. I'm pretty sure it can do this as it was made to award random rewards.
2. That a disc that spins quickly can spin slowly. Now I can't really see why a variable speed disc could not more slowly.
I really wish someone else would chime in on this with more knowledge about this hardware but until then I can't see any reason why this is a stretch.
Importantly, this proposal is using the exact same hardware but with very slowly moving discs that have lost their original purpose of imparting spin on the ball, but now instead rotate around each other during gameplay. You make shots and depending on modes or goals, rings rotate around each other. You make a good shot and you get closer to aligning the rings for a mega jackpot or something else, then maybe you miss a shot and it is undone. So the better you are, the better you can align the rings to get the prize - exactly like the movie.
The main point is the 3 rings still look very cool on the playfield and becomes more apart of gameplay - more than just the random prizes as before.
MOST IMPORTANTLY - this proposal should not require hardware changes - only software which makes it amenable to JJP's current rush, cut and run approach so I'm hoping has a greater chance. They could even ship and the code could catch up later if they are in such a rush.
Anyway can't see how this is less crazy than suggesting we throw away the entire mech and replace with a stock motor - I mean, I still can't believe this was suggested!
BTW, aurich's idea is brilliant but I'm going with the easier approach above because it seems as though JJP has already thrown in the towel and is on a rush mission, so trying to salvage with ideas that are the absolute easiest and quickest so that there is a hope.

I'll apologize spinal as Ive been thinking wrong. I forgot that they were supposed to stop for the random awards. However I watched all the Livestreams and I don't remember them stopping for the awards. So maybe the problem was getting them to stop? But if it wasn't I do like the idea. But not in it's current status with the blunder awards. I like what you were saying though. With advances towards lit shots and jackpots. Or 2x pf. Etc. The awards new redesigned.

However not a fan of auriches idea at all. Also thinking auriches idea is not even possible with the magnets and original mech.

#407 1 year ago

Here's my thoughts.

1.) I'm 95% cancelling my potcLE. Still hanging by a thread. But generally not cancelling right this second because I don't have to. And because there's nothing right this second that's catching my eye. But the call is happening tomorrow and confirming how long I have until I have to cancel.

2.) Disc noise. They basically ignored the fact the disc sounded broken for most of the stream. It was constantly making noise. Yes less noise then the old discs. But the concerning noise was the occasional grinding noise the thing would make. Like it was misaligned or failing in the moment. If your car was making this noise most people would pull it over park it and have it towed. Their answer was it was a prototype. Well it's not the greatest presentation when were watching a stream of what we're being told is "basically the final machine".Thats just absolutely bombing a presentation. Be equal to Ferrari showing off the motor. By the way the motor they just took 300hp out of. Because of reliability reasons. And during their stream of showing the customers the new less powerful but supposedly more reliable motor. And the motor is sitting there with the occasional rod knock.lol

3.) Disc look. Yes the art on the spinning was said will eventually match the outter wheel. But once again. This is the effort you put through for a potential saving the project type of presentation. Bombed it again.

4.) Chest I don't much care about. This was a actual tweak Imo everyone could have lived with this change by itself. However the chest is magnified because it goes right along with this whole debacle is. RUSHED.

5.) Final thought. I'm relatively new to this hobby. Only about 3 years. But this would have been my second jjp. And I was super stoked about this machine. Mostly because of everything I have read. Jjp is the Ferrari lambos of the pinball world. True enthusiasts catering to other enthusiasts. Truly listening to the customer base. Which is why for the past year I've been a budding jjp fan. Watching every single video I could find. And drinking the koolaid of it all along the way.

I definitely do not blame the design team for this. This was a higher up order. Your out of time get it done by "x" date no questions asked. Which is completely out of character for the type of company jjp is supposed to be. I think just about everybody on the pre order list would have been willing to wait another 6 months for a proper fix. Original discs or at least a reasonable equal quality replacement. But this is being ignored. This is catastrophic for this machine. Something that I don't think will ever be forgotten. I think there's no doubt NIB owners will lose $1500-$2k as soon as you break the seals. And may get worse very quickly. Especially if they release a black Pearl edition. That updates something on the PF In a last minute effort to revive the failing potc. I'm not saying that will for sure happen. But it's a probable thought now. When it wasn't before this debacle.

Sorry for the rant. But I've been anxiously, super stoked ,couldn't wait to hear my potc was on its Way. Even had planned ahead for it's special spot in my gameroom. Already bought a couple pirates figurines and pirate themed pictures. Super bummed

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