(Topic ID: 214657)

Who is second guessing their jjp potc preorder


By bigd1979

1 year ago



Topic Stats

  • 677 posts
  • 186 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 12 months ago by bemmett
  • Topic is favorited by 19 Pinsiders

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Topic poll

“Are you gonna cancel your order if the new spinning disk configuration stays?”

  • Yes 230 votes
    63%
  • No 70 votes
    19%
  • Gonna wait it out till my order is ready and then decide 68 votes
    18%

(368 votes)

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There are 676 posts in this topic. You are on page 9 of 14.
#401 1 year ago
Quoted from zaphX:

new disc is noisy AF,

I was wondering about that. It didn't seem like regular motor noise, it sounded like there was a mechanical issue or it was banging around in there. It wasn't a steady noise.

#402 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Lol
Oh never mind. I’m not buying a game so I guess I can’t point out that disc does indeed spin and make the ball move.
Didn’t mean to get in the way of the meltdown.
How much money did you lose on this project again?

Just busting chops.

Compared to the original 3 disc setup, what appears to now be the production version, is a huge let down.

And it's not my money anyone should be concerned about regarding this project. I'm solvent, which is a phrase that remains elusive for most entities who enter the world of pinball manufacturing.

#403 1 year ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

I'm solvent, which is a phrase that remains elusive for most entities who enter the world of pinball manufacturing.

Lmao well THAT’s true for sure.

You’d have to be crazy to start a Pinball company. And there’s lots of crazy around lately.

#404 1 year ago
Quoted from zaphX:

I voted in the poll I was still in, but after watching the stream I’m really thinking hard.
The loss of the disc really takes away a lot of the excitement.

Zaphx, looks like you live down the street. . If you still get one maybe I can stop by and try it. . Liking swpro?

#405 1 year ago
Quoted from zaphX:

he new disc is noisy AF

Glass was off Per llyod

#406 1 year ago
Quoted from OnTheSnap:

Zaphx, looks like you live down the street. . If you still get one maybe I can stop by and try it. . Liking swpro?

Hi! Love SWPro but it’s now in Texas. I lost my rental house here (owner sold) and now I’m in a tiny apartment. POTC was also destined for Texas but I’ve sent in my cancellation email.

#407 1 year ago

Here's my thoughts.

1.) I'm 95% cancelling my potcLE. Still hanging by a thread. But generally not cancelling right this second because I don't have to. And because there's nothing right this second that's catching my eye. But the call is happening tomorrow and confirming how long I have until I have to cancel.

2.) Disc noise. They basically ignored the fact the disc sounded broken for most of the stream. It was constantly making noise. Yes less noise then the old discs. But the concerning noise was the occasional grinding noise the thing would make. Like it was misaligned or failing in the moment. If your car was making this noise most people would pull it over park it and have it towed. Their answer was it was a prototype. Well it's not the greatest presentation when were watching a stream of what we're being told is "basically the final machine".Thats just absolutely bombing a presentation. Be equal to Ferrari showing off the motor. By the way the motor they just took 300hp out of. Because of reliability reasons. And during their stream of showing the customers the new less powerful but supposedly more reliable motor. And the motor is sitting there with the occasional rod knock.lol

3.) Disc look. Yes the art on the spinning was said will eventually match the outter wheel. But once again. This is the effort you put through for a potential saving the project type of presentation. Bombed it again.

4.) Chest I don't much care about. This was a actual tweak Imo everyone could have lived with this change by itself. However the chest is magnified because it goes right along with this whole debacle is. RUSHED.

5.) Final thought. I'm relatively new to this hobby. Only about 3 years. But this would have been my second jjp. And I was super stoked about this machine. Mostly because of everything I have read. Jjp is the Ferrari lambos of the pinball world. True enthusiasts catering to other enthusiasts. Truly listening to the customer base. Which is why for the past year I've been a budding jjp fan. Watching every single video I could find. And drinking the koolaid of it all along the way.

I definitely do not blame the design team for this. This was a higher up order. Your out of time get it done by "x" date no questions asked. Which is completely out of character for the type of company jjp is supposed to be. I think just about everybody on the pre order list would have been willing to wait another 6 months for a proper fix. Original discs or at least a reasonable equal quality replacement. But this is being ignored. This is catastrophic for this machine. Something that I don't think will ever be forgotten. I think there's no doubt NIB owners will lose $1500-$2k as soon as you break the seals. And may get worse very quickly. Especially if they release a black Pearl edition. That updates something on the PF In a last minute effort to revive the failing potc. I'm not saying that will for sure happen. But it's a probable thought now. When it wasn't before this debacle.

Sorry for the rant. But I've been anxiously, super stoked ,couldn't wait to hear my potc was on its Way. Even had planned ahead for it's special spot in my gameroom. Already bought a couple pirates figurines and pirate themed pictures. Super bummed

13
#408 1 year ago
Quoted from bgwilly31:

I definitely do not blame the design team for this. This was a higher up order. Your out of time get it done by "x" date no questions asked. Which is completely out of character for the type of company jjp is supposed to be. I think just about everybody on the pre order list would have been willing to wait another 6 months for a proper fix. Original discs or at least a reasonable equal quality replacement. But this is being ignored.

"Delays are temporary, mediocrity is forever" definitely applies. Looks like they're settling for mediocrity. Disappointing.

#409 1 year ago

Groot has multiple spinning discs

images (resized).jpg

#410 1 year ago

I was never officially in ( I haven't pre-ordered ) but there was maybe a 50% chance I was going to get one, I was waiting to play it before deciding. The machine is very expensive in the UK at £8,700 for the standard ( $12,300!!! ) but I was so amazed by the rocking ship and the 3 disc mech I was willing to spend that much. I'm definitely out now, without the 3 disc mech there's no way I can justify spending that much. Maybe I'll pick up a 2nd hand one down the road.

#411 1 year ago
Quoted from Kevlar:

Maybe I'll pick up a 2nd hand one down the road.

This is where people may land with this which is not going to help JJP. The company gets the $ from the IPO - not the trading of the stock thereafter. I am more fearful for them longer term from the damage of this debacle of handling this release. Potential loss of sales if not at least more of a wait and see attitude people are going to switch to. Talked to a local disto after playing the demo and he stated he was getting a flood of pre-orders after people played it. Doubt this will be the case going forward unless JJP can re-establish themselves. Stern seems pointed in the re-establish direction with IMDN. JJP just put themselves in "ya gotta prove it to me now bro" boat. What a shame after they built up that "we are worth the extra coin" to many. Hard and long path to get the good reputation........unfortunately much quicker path to lose it. I am still pulling for them - what a great addition to the hobby they have been and I hope will be for years to come.

#412 1 year ago
Quoted from hockeymag8:

This is where people may land with this which is not going to help JJP. The company gets the $ from the IPO - not the trading of the stock thereafter. I am more fearful for them longer term from the damage of this debacle of handling this release. Potential loss of sales if not at least more of a wait and see attitude people are going to switch to. Talked to a local disto after playing the demo and he stated he was getting a flood of pre-orders after people played it. Doubt this will be the case going forward unless JJP can re-establish themselves. Stern seems pointed in the re-establish direction with IMDN. JJP just put themselves in "ya gotta prove it to me now bro" boat. What a shame after they built up that "we are worth the extra coin" to many. Hard and long path to get the good reputation........unfortunately much quicker path to lose it. I am still pulling for them - what a great addition to the hobby they have been and I hope will be for years to come.

I'm pulling for them too ( I have a Dialed in ) but the price in the uk is pretty ridiculous, and taking out one of the 2 things that really had me interested in the first place has caused me to question the machines value.

#413 1 year ago

What game do all of you think has more features now - Hobbit or Pirates?

#414 1 year ago
Quoted from adborto:

What game do all of you think has more features now - Hobbit or Pirates?

WOZ

#415 1 year ago

I have a dile and its just so much better to play than my rrwoz. Woz is a beautiful pin with amazing audio and neat gimmicks but id much rather play di at any given time.

#416 1 year ago

I hope they make Led Zeppelin, or Pink Floyd.

I really hope they don’t do GNR, simply because there’s already a GNR. Same issue as POTC. There are so many unexplored themes, why repeat?

#417 1 year ago
Quoted from Russell:

I hope they make Led Zeppelin, or Pink Floyd.
I really hope they don’t do GNR, simply because there’s already a GNR. Same issue as POTC. There are so many unexplored themes, why repeat?

yes, something different.

and yes there is already a GNR and it is a fantastic pin.

#418 1 year ago
Quoted from adborto:

What game do all of you think has more features now - Hobbit or Pirates?

I own a Hobbit and have about 5 games on a prototype POTC. Before the recent changes I would say Pirates but now The Hobbit.

Also after reading and watching tons of video, as well as playing the game, I prefer The Hobbits objective based ruleset over Pirates. Since Pirates lacks film actor audio and actor video assets, as well as licensed music, I never feel that I'm playing through its story while in modes or multiballs. There's a 125 modes in Pirates but I don't find them as engaging as the 31 book modes in The Hobbit as you are just hitting character shots without any audio / video from the movie scene that the mode is based on. When I play Smaug MB or Into the Fire in The Hobbit it feels like that themes story being retold through gameplay whereas in Pirates you see "Black Pearl Multiball" and then no film audio or video assets are present.

The use of licensed assets in The Hobbit is incredible and as a result it's 31 book modes, 3 "mini" wizard modes and Smaug MB all feel deeper, more layered and more unique then the modes I've played in Pirates.

I could say something similar about Dialed In. Dialed In has 11 disaster modes, far less then the 125 modes in Pirates, but again they feel more richer and engaging then the modes in Pirates.

Keith I thought said that Pirates has a ruleset design similar to Simpson's (but much deeper) which is different compared to story based rulesets such as LOTR, The Hobbit, Stern Star Trek, etc. I tend to prefer rulesets of the latter.

These are just my opinions and I know that Pirates code is still being worked on. I also understand that Pirates has a different ruleset design then The Hobbit which will appeal to a lot of people. I'm sure Pirates code from today is going to change a lot in a years time.

#419 1 year ago
Quoted from adborto:

What game do all of you think has more features now - Hobbit or Pirates?

Last I checked I wasn't asked to pay 12.5 for my Hobbit? At 8k I would say Pirates.

#420 1 year ago

Valid point. Hobbits have been selling at low prices recently. It makes me wonder at 6K vs. 9.5K what is the better game? Regardless of price, which game has more mechs and interaction with the player at this point? Seems like Pirates has an upper playfield that moves back and forth and a pirate that spins in circles. If they just left the trunk working, I'd probably still buy it!

#421 1 year ago
Quoted from adborto:

Valid point. Hobbits have been selling at low prices recently. It makes me wonder at 6K vs. 9.5K what is the better game? Regardless of price, which game has more mechs and interaction with the player at this point? Seems like Pirates has an upper playfield that moves back and forth and a pirate that spins in circles. If they just left the trunk working, I'd probably still buy it!

Hobbits are going used in the $6.5k -$7.5k range depending on condition with prices trending upwards recently from the lows. Also depends on location and if it's being sold for a quick sale, just like any game.

I would say TH has more interactive components with the rotating / talking Smaug toy, 11 drop targets, kickback, 4 beast pop up mechs, 2 magnets, subway, and mini LCD book toy. If Pirates still had the 3x spinning map mech and the chest moved I would say Pirates.

#422 1 year ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Hobbits are going used in the $6.5k -$7.5k range depending on condition with prices trending upwards recently. Also depends on location and if it's being sold for a quick sale, just like any game.

I wouldn't say prices are trending upwards. There's a HUO Hobbit LE with Radcals for $6K on the Chicago forum right now.

23
#423 1 year ago

Boys...I think it's Coil Countin' Time!!!

#424 1 year ago

What I find interesting is that JJP is apparently not reaching-out to its well-established customer base for input on questions such as changing mechs on new machines. I think most of us who have multiple JJP machines would have counseled them to at least reduce the price if toys (and BOM) are reduced, otherwise the public's reaction will be negative. Ivory tower syndrome?

#425 1 year ago
Quoted from MikeS:

I wouldn't say prices are trending upwards. There's a HUO Hobbit LE with Radcals for $6K on the Chicago forum right now.

That's one game, quick sale and not sure of condition, if it has all the fixes completed, etc. I had a chance to buy a HUO Star Trek premium last year for $5300 as it was listed for a quick sale (should have bought it, lol) but they regularly go for $6k+. A Dialed In standard just sold around here very quickly for $7k, not HUO but lower then typical price.

#426 1 year ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

That's one game, quick sale and not sure of condition, if it has all the fixes completed, etc. I had a chance to buy a HUO Star Trek premium last year for $5300 as it was listed for a quick sale (should have bought it, lol) but they regularly go for $6k+. A Dialed In standard just sold around here very quickly for $7k, not HUO but lower then typical price.

It's a reputable seller who is known for having pristine games and the game has 150 plays as stated. And I'm pretty sure it's still available.

-1
#427 1 year ago
Quoted from GGBGROUP:

What I find interesting is that JJP is apparently not reaching-out to its well-established customer base for input on questions such as changing mechs on new machines. I think most of us who have multiple JJP machines would have counseled them to at least reduce the price if toys (and BOM) are reduced, otherwise the public's reaction will be negative. Ivory tower syndrome?

They're trying to have it both ways. Either they need to be a lot more transparent and detailed about the decision-making process in removing the mech, or they need to be like Stern and close off information until launch. The way they're making and communicating this change is really off-brand for a company that's put itself out as the behind-the-curtain, fan-friendly, no-expense-spared boutique label.

#428 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Boys...I think it's Coil Countin' Time!!!

There are 162 coils in The Hobbit and it's so damn heavy I'm including it with my house when I sell it as I never want to move it again!

#429 1 year ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Hobbits are going used in the $6.5k -$7.5k range depending on condition with prices trending upwards recently from the lows. Also depends on location and if it's being sold for a quick sale, just like any game.
I would say TH has more interactive components with the rotating / talking Smaug toy, 11 drop targets, kickback, 4 beast pop up mechs, 2 magnets, subway, and mini LCD book toy. If Pirates still had the 3x spinning map mech and the chest moved I would say Pirates.

I mean, who DOESN'T love interacting with kickbacks?! Gotta love "the no drain lane."

#430 1 year ago

Studies show that a strong circle of close kickbacks extends your life.

#431 1 year ago
Quoted from GGBGROUP:

What I find interesting is that JJP is apparently not reaching-out to its well-established customer base for input on questions such as changing mechs on new machines.

Why do you find that interesting when it's never happened in the 90-year history of the industry?

-4
#432 1 year ago

I think the right answer is for them to ship now single disc- to get these games reliable and out the door.

Come out with a fixed triple disc mechanism later as a premium service pack- like the upgraded ramps on Hobbit.

I know this would seem lame, since they should have been in the game in the first place,

But then they could/should sell them "at cost" to people who preordered games.

#433 1 year ago
Quoted from cheshirefilms:

I think the right answer is for them to ship now single disc-
Come out with a fixed triple disc mechanism later as a premium service pack- like the upgraded ramps on Hobbit.
I know this would seem lame, but I'm sure they could/should sell them "at cost" to people who preordered games.

You would need a new playfield with that. The holes differ substantially in diameter.

-3
#434 1 year ago
Quoted from fishbone:

You would need a new playfield with that. The holes differ substantially in diameter.

How about a new 3 disc mechanism that is smaller.

#435 1 year ago

the small single disc does already next to nothing to the ball trajectory. Now making three even smaller rings out of it?

-1
#436 1 year ago

I think there is some degree of overreaction I have to admit. I know it's not ideal, far from it but it seems it was unavoidable. A real shame. I think a price reduction would go a long way. I still think the game looks great incidentally

#437 1 year ago
Quoted from DerGoetz:

the small single disc does already next to nothing to the ball trajectory. Now making three even smaller rings out of it?

This and it most likely would be too tough to engineer it at such a small size (for a pinball company/at reasonable cost).

#438 1 year ago

This thread continues to get crazier. The Hobbit is better and they should send out the 3 disc mech later as a service pack

Quoted from PanzerFreak:

There are 162 coils in The Hobbit and it's so damn heavy I'm including it with my house when I sell it as I never want to move it again!

No need to risk ruining a potential sale of your house like that.

#439 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Boys...I think it's Coil Countin' Time!!!

Lets rock!

GrandPrix (resized).jpg

#440 1 year ago

Bottom line, its a brutal situation to be in for JJP.

They raised the price by $500 and now have to remove a main feature.

They have no one to blame but themselves despite feeling sorry for them and the individuals that put in the hard work.

When you have a long term game plan and you have deep pocket investors it seems they just made the decision to get it on the line, sell what you can, write of the loss and move on.

As pinhead consumers we invest as much or more emotionally into this hobby as any one I've ever been a part of. Thus, it feels personal when it doesn't work out. Yeah i know, 1st world problems.

Anyhow, life goes on! Onward and upward.

#441 1 year ago
Quoted from iceman44:

As pinhead consumers we invest as much or more emotionally into this hobby as any one I've ever been a part of.

If you consider staggering around the backyard until three in the morning laughing being emotional, then I am as guilty as everybody else.

#442 1 year ago

I just sent Joe my CE cancellation, this sucks....

#443 1 year ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

There are 162 coils

How in the hell do you cram that many coils into a pinball machine ? I will have to go to a buddys house and lift the pf and check this out!!!!

#444 1 year ago
Quoted from heni1977:

How in the hell do you cram that many coils into a pinball machine ?

You put quite a few in the backbox as well.

image-14 (resized).jpg

#445 1 year ago

My LE deposit refund check arrived today.

#446 1 year ago
Quoted from heni1977:

How in the hell do you cram that many coils into a pinball machine ? I will have to go to a buddys house and lift the pf and check this out!!!!

I was exaggerating there a bit, lol. It's a lot.

#448 1 year ago

I think that JJP should just delay POTC until Stern's Motley Crue comes out next fall.

Then they can just copy the 3-ring spinning Pentagram mech like they did with the Ironhide mini-playfield mech.

#449 1 year ago

Out on my CE..

#450 1 year ago
Quoted from wolftownjeff:

I have no idea what you are talking about.

Here is assistance for a one sentence answer regarding WoZ price indexing.

Betson (west coast) paid $5500 for their bulk WoZ pre-order games in order to get them induced as a new pinball company and promote sales. It was part of negotiations to establish a distribution model, which previous did not exist at all. The whole buy direct concept had just gotten started after JJP established their website for sales. The company which I work paid $6000 for each of the three WoZ games according to the accountant and warranty individual records.

Neither were the suggested MSRP of $6500, which was close to BoM/product costs which included the additional overhead of the production line. Price was raised to an MSRP of $7500 after production recommenced after corrective redesign. The reason was JJP was continuing to lose money on every machine sold, regardless or not they sold in numbers. JJP really did not have a choice. My company refused to buy more games based on their track record on locations, especially for the added higher cost, and general RSD.

People need to stop looking exclusively through consumer lenses, as this is an industry, not exclusively a home market. An industry is not a market. More goes on than building private toys for people's houses, and pricing is far from universal for all parties dependent on sources. In them "olden days" (I can only go back as far as the 80s-90s) you could negotiate prices with local retailers, today competition is tighter due to the internet.

I don't speak for other people, what they paid, taxes including, or shipping, if applicable, but it is quite obvious some are not part of distributor networks or interact with large operators. If a person wants to argue that they paid $6500, and that was the "only price", that is not accurate. Not everyone was fixed at that price. No distributor or operator pays equivalent MSRP, unless the title is ridiculously "hot" as an earner, and most of the time is simply not cost efficient to do so. The answer is "Thanks, but I'll pass", and eventually the title deflates like a balloon, like nearly all do and then they buy a game or two.

I hope everyone gets the quality they pay for regarding their games.
Even Stern for all their QA/QC challenges has done a better job with manufacturing speed and game design (although recycled), especially considering the cost. Iron Maiden was quite remarkable overall, even though I am not a SPIKE fan.

We unboxed a Iron Maiden Pro two days ago, bulletproofed it due to small factory overlooks, and it has already made nearly $300 in less than 48 hours.
Not bad. It looks to be a continued strong earning title.
In comparison to this pinball, some jukebox locations here can make over $1200/month which is considered exceptional. Anything more than $600 is very good, $200-300 average, less than $100 and sometimes the equipment gets pulled permanently, new equipment only. In general, pinball machines do not make money, they just attract customers, except at large specialized venues. We have a backlog of venues that WANT pinball, but there simply is lack of inventory and technicians running full time to keep everything tip top at hundreds of route locations. It is not like route location owners understand what we are all saying, they just want to say "we have pinball machines here!" (to make more money on things like food and drinks)

Pinball is supposed to be about having fun (or money if an operator) anyway and this seems to be forgotten sometimes. If someone wants to buy a $12K unnecessary toy, it should give equivalent joy or income. I don't always see this today for whatever cost, unlike the past.

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