I played the 3 disk center at the Las Vegas Amusement Expo and thought that part was, by far, the best part of the game.
Was really great...

Shame.

It doesn’t hurt that it was visually appealing and nice to look at either!

They replaced it with spinning barf splatter!

JJP needs to come out and address these rumors and speculation. Seems to be a lot of unhappy potential customers, especially those that preordered

I can't argue with that, I don't really dig DI's theme, I just like the idea of non-licensed games selling. I wouldn't buy it, I'm counting on other people to do it for me.

What rumors and speculation?

They released an official video clearly and explicitly detailing their plans. Did you watch it?

TBH I was out once Eric cut me off at TPF when I was waiting in line for over an hour to play. I’m sure he’s a nice guy but that was a jerk move. Just to show some dude and his kid every inch of the game for an hour as they pretended they were thinking of preordering. I called and cancelled that second. Peace out ✌️

OK started a poll - please vote:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/potc-save-the-3-disks-poll#post-4340983

Thanks for your help.

Keep in mind: this is just a pinball machine. It’s a toy designed for fun and to make money. It’s not the cure for cancer or the end-all-be-all for happiness. You read through this thread and You’d think JJP had just ripped the happiness and future viability of adults from coast to coast.

Tons of games have had features pulled or altered through their design process, whether it be for money or reliability. That’s a fact.

So, JJP made a mistake of showing what they thought would be a final version of a game. Now they have to make some changes. Deposits are also refundable - so no harm/no foul. And even if they weren’t, The onus falls on the buyer to make sure there is documentation in place that guarantees exactly what they are paying for.

As far as I can see, life goes on and lots of people will still buy and enjoy this game. Someone said it above: this game is still going to be a ton of fun to play.

How about looking for the positive, Pinside?

I’m out on my le preorder. Not because of discgate but because as an operator I’ve learned no one cares about the title. It’s just another pin in most casual players eyes. Therefore why would I spend twice the amount of a decent stern that would earn just the same?

Keep in mind: People were paying $12,500 or $9,500 for this. WERE.

As of now the poll shows 148 people backing out on POTC. I wonder how many of those people are now throwing their money at Stern for a Maiden? Me thinks alot.

He posted that exact same comment, word for word, in about 4 other threads. Not sure what the deal is with that.

Funny you mention that . . . I just ordered one last night.

Exactly... under no duress or pressure... and it’s fully refundable. The collecting market validated that price point, not the manufacturer.

This story isn’t over, give JJP a chance to further the process whether it be price drop, additional compensation, or perhaps another answer to their issues.

There is a lot of speculation that things will get fixed like TH not happening

I'd be stunned if jjp doesn't rethink their initial announcement after this and go back to the drawing board. I don't speak for all obviously but I a $500 discount is not going to matter to the actual buyers out there. So it better not just be a discount. They need to add some other cool features.

However I'm stunned they were silly enough to ever make this announcement and think it was going to go over well either. So what does anybody know. Lol

Really, they have two choices - take their lumps and release Pirates with the catastrophically unpopular changes, or delay the machine to give time to redesign and test the wheel mech with belts instead of gears and do a release switcheroo with Toy Story. Depends on how much they want to save Pirates and how far along Toy Story is.

I say take their lumps and move on to better stories ahead is the correct move. Even if it's fixed with a delay, this game will always be tainted by this development.

It's the biggest pinside blow up I've personally seen.
That's for sure. But very little info has been released about the changes. Seeing the new disc in action with different art. And then they add a new feature or two. And I could see that being enough.

The disc was cool but in gameplay I'm not sure the multi disk would afect the ball so much as a single one. It looked cool. I want to play it. I'd rather have magnets.

I agree with the options except they should fix it with a delay

The game might be tainted but the company certainly will be if they punt this

It really doesn’t help that the new art on the single wheel is looking like absolute shit. No animated trunk either.

They are taking the easy way out.

I love my WOZ. Best game they ever made. The only way back from this is to make a bad ass Pink Floyd pin with all the visuals WOZ offers

I dunno, the video from the designer is pretty final and self-explanatory:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/jjpotc-updates-for-production

The depressing part is where he is introducing the new wheel, had nothing good to say about it and ends up at "You can see the art there and how it looks...um <sharp head nod>...and there it is" then moves on. He's clearly not happy about the situation.

After potentially over $1 million in lost sales JJP may change something.

I played it at Expo and liked my original better. I like Jack and his visions but this will be a major step back for them. I really think they could knock a music pin out the park with strong visual stimulation and basic playfield layout

Like say....Guns n Roses?

I thought it was sort of a half ass way to make such a big announcement and may have been better received coming from Jack himself and a little more substance as to why this decision was made. As you point out in your post, body language says a lot and I get the impression this is coming from higher up and may have nothing to do with reliability even though Eric said that.

Just my hunch

It's a lot in unearned dollars, but in percentage terms likely 5% or less of total lifetime sales. The real dollars opportunity cost to fix it may be more expensive than just taking the lumps now.

Partially true but they do have a fixed cost of licensing, development and materials that they are on the hook for. This machine hasn’t earned them anything back yet.
At 10k I think many will pull the plug if something isn’t fixed.
They don’t sell thousands of any of their titles, we are talking several hundreds over lifetime and if 100+ cancel in near term this is a BIG problem.

Remember the disastrous debut of TH at EXPO a few years back? It was such a bomb that they pulled it back and redesigned a bunch of stuff by committee after they had already gotten rid of the game designer. After over a year delay, the game finally came out and was a lackluster release at best.

I say redo the artwork on the single spinning disk and do what it takes to make the chest open and close. At least it will stay pretty much on schedule and if a few people actually do back out, you try to get them back by having it be a good game with complete software.

It's not final as there's one more final that comes after that final - whether or not buyers buy.

Pink Floyd or Guns and roses might be hard to negotiate due to band discourse. Maybe Led Zeppelin or Greatful Dead.

I agree...Give it some time...All I ask is NO dinners....I do like my DIALED IN CE jacket...But No Dinners...Still waiting for the announcement for Dialed In CE Owners..

But going to give it time and more thought....You got to remember there is still alot in this game...But I do get it...$12,500 is alot and even $9500 is alot.

Maybe a good time to push for that Powder Coated Coin Door...Hmmm.

Wow, I’m surprised to hear that. I always figured they sold at least a thousand of each of their titles. If they only sell hundreds then losing sales would be even more painful.

I’m just taking a guess but Di has 420 owners on pinside and that includes operator locations. Can’t see how they have sold thousands. Woz is at 1100 and hobbit around 580 pinsiders and locations.
They just aren’t super high volume is the point I was trying to make.

right now I think the smartest move for JJP would be is to reskin DILE. It could stimulate sales for a bit while they figure out this cluster-F of a change. They need to double check their engineering and not slam a ninja turtles pizza on it.

On the other hand if they slam a Ninja Turtles Pizza on DI ... (fun to imagine but probably not a good long-term business plan, as then people would hold off buying original themes to see if they reskin it).

JJP sells in the thousands - multiple thousands sometimes. Anyone telling you otherwise is a moron. You don't re-up the WoZ license again if it's not selling well.

The news about the change has now gone world wide, wow!

POTC_news.jpg

Pinside is not the world. JJP is definitely selling more than in the hundreds per game.

How do you know this?

I think multiple thousands is an awfully strong statement. I would truly be amazed if they have sold more than 2000-2500 Woz.

True but it is a pretty large segment of a relatively small hobby/gaming world community.

Edit - as I stated the point I was trying to make is they aren’t Stern. They maybe do one title per year or so and aren’t a super high volume producer. If there is a serious blunder it could be devastating to JJP.

I know.

But not a big segment of the amusement world at large. There are plenty of operators who have never even been to pinside and, believe it or not, plenty more who have never even heard of it.

It's really not that hard, especially for WoZ, to figure out, even without inside information.

ECLE was 1000 units confirmed. Those sales were completed YEARS ago. That leaves only 1000 units to sell to reach 2000, split between the "Standard" EC version and the Ruby Red one. Ruby Red came out almost FOUR years ago, and Jack re-upped the WoZ license last year, calling it "evergreen" for sales.

Lets say the Standard sold 500. That would leave the Ruby Red to have sold 500, which is only 125/year (over 4 years) - ~10 units a month. It did better than that, and Jack's re-up is a strong indicator that it will continue to do so. That conjecture alone, with no inside information used, reasonably puts the three versions of WoZ at 2000 units total. But I'll tell you it's more.

Generally speaking, only about 30-40% of owners bother listing thier collections on Pinside. 98 of 150 AMH and 172 of 300 RZ are on the higher side.

Pirates really screwed up Jack's plan to have 2018 be the year they finally get to 2 titles released a year. His goal is to get to three a year, which will now likely be 2020 at the earliest. With his deep-pockets investor he now has the capital to do it. JJP just has to get through the growing pains. They're condensing the decades of growth and learning of Stern and Bally/Williams into a very short time and it's not always going to be smooth sailing. But kudos to them for plugging away at it and raising the bar for EVERYONE in the process. You wouldn't have seen a PRO Iron Maiden that looks as good it does without JJP and AP heating up the expectations of the market.

Now if they'd just move that moronic new knee-level headphone jack placement on DI and Pirates, sales would really take off!

They make great machines. I hope they come up with a reasonable solution for POTC.
I was really excited for this one, especially as my first JJP machine in the collection.
I’m not cancelling yet but if that replacement disk stays, I’m out.
The chest, I’m not too concerned about.