(Topic ID: 214657)

Who is second guessing their jjp potc preorder


By bigd1979

1 year ago



Topic Stats

  • 677 posts
  • 186 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 11 months ago by bemmett
  • Topic is favorited by 19 Pinsiders

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Topic poll

“Are you gonna cancel your order if the new spinning disk configuration stays?”

  • Yes 230 votes
    63%
  • No 70 votes
    19%
  • Gonna wait it out till my order is ready and then decide 68 votes
    18%

(368 votes)

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There are 676 posts in this topic. You are on page 13 of 14.
-1
#601 12 months ago
Quoted from John_I:

So suddenly the exact same system actually works? There is DI sitting next to a Houdini and GOTG Pro in a nearby location. The DI is dark by comparison and the Houdini and GOTG Pro are nice and bright. They need to just put in sockets and LED bulbs, long overdue.

There is nothing wrong with the brightness of DI. Is it possible Houdini and GOTG are ultra bright?

#602 12 months ago
Quoted from DCFAN:

There is nothing wrong with the brightness of DI. Is it possible Houdini and GOTG are ultra bright?

DI is not as bad as WOZ, but side-by-side with a game with LED GI bulbs it looks dull and dark.

#603 12 months ago
Quoted from John_I:

DI is not as bad as WOZ, but side-by-side with a game with LED GI bulbs it looks dull and dark.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/dialed-in-owners-and-fans-club/page/22

#604 12 months ago
Quoted from Sammy31:

This isn't the first time for JJP. Remember the drama when they started removing features from The Hobbit...(but that was supposed to be due to Warner Bros... hmmmm...)

Guess i was downvoted by someone from jjp...

Some of the features initially advertised but removed on TH... fully interactive Smaug, 3D characters on all the pops, variable kick out exit...
The fully interactive Smaug is what got me to fork out my early deposit...

#605 12 months ago

Dile is one of the best lighted pins ive owned? My rrwoz is very dark bc of the rgb gi and im guessing potc will be similar bc it uses rgbgi. Hobbit and di use cool white gi and are plenty bright to play in complete darkness.

#606 12 months ago
Quoted from Sammy31:

Guess i was downvoted by someone from jjp...

I don't believe so. Down voted yes. By someone from JJP, no.

LTG : )

#607 12 months ago

DI is the only one I can play on the dark.10 B/W some on.

17
#608 12 months ago

Pinball News editor Martin Ayub and myself (editor of Pinball Magazine) recorded a new podcast, which includes a 45-minute interview with Jack Guarnieri addressing the current POTC situation. In the podcast we also discuss the French Flip Expo show and the French Olympic Goblin game: http://www.podcastgarden.com/episode/flip-expo-2018-jack-guarnieri-olympic-goblin_126676

Enjoy!

Jonathan
Pinball Magazine
www.pinball-magazine.com

#609 12 months ago
Quoted from unigroove:

Pinball News editor Martin Ayub and myself (editor of Pinball Magazine) recorded a new podcast, which includes a 45-minute interview with Jack Guarnieri addressing the current POTC situation. In the podcast we also discuss the French Flip Expo show and the French Olympic Goblin game: http://www.podcastgarden.com/episode/flip-expo-2018-jack-guarnieri-olympic-goblin_126676
Enjoy!
Jonathan
Pinball Magazine
http://www.pinball-magazine.com

Thanks for posting Jonathan!

For those of you that want to get straight to it:

* Interview with Jack starts at about the 21 minute mark.

* They address the elephant in the room fairly quickly (3-disk spinner, trunk changes, how they revealed the game, etc.) starting at 23:20.

#610 12 months ago

Jonathon,
Thank you for posting the interview. Good insight from Jack on the current situation and the effect on future releases. Can't really blame them for delaying future releases. Game still looks amazing and I am still in on an LE.

-1
#611 12 months ago
Quoted from DCFAN:

I don't see an issued patent for the disks on Google patents yet.
Interesting, JJ Pinball did get a patent on their individually resetting targets of a drop target bank.
https://patents.google.com/patent/US9700783B2/en?assignee=JJ+PINBALL+LLC

How the f--k?

There's prior art from 20 years ago. How many bally games had memory drop targets? Though ironically, Centaur aside..at least Hobbit shares one other thing in common with most of them: It's terrible.

I guess changing the position of a trip coil is enough to get a patent.

11
#612 12 months ago

Hmmm...he seems to dismiss the pre order customers and oh well it doesn't matter, non Pinside people will buy Potc for xmas and never even knew about the spinning discs.

What a load of shit. The visionary and "chief cheerleader". Keep on raising prices, taking stuff out, and see how that works out.

#613 12 months ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Hmmm...he seems to dismiss the pre order customers and oh well it doesn't matter, non Pinside people will buy Potc for xmas and never even knew about the spinning discs.
What a load of shit. The visionary and "chief cheerleader". Keep on raising prices, taking stuff out, and see how that works out.

And even when pulling features he compares the company to Bugatti.

#614 12 months ago
Quoted from Ns2973:

And even when pulling features he compares the company to Bugatti.

At this point, it's more like a loaded Chevy Impala.

#615 12 months ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Hmmm...he seems to dismiss the pre order customers and oh well it doesn't matter, non Pinside people will buy Potc for xmas and never even knew about the spinning discs.
What a load of shit. The visionary and "chief cheerleader". Keep on raising prices, taking stuff out, and see how that works out.

Like the truth but unfortunately personally not impressed with pretty much just dismisses us...I know we are a small percentage of sales but we do share a common ground of passion for pinball greater than most of those other sales...just saying...

#616 12 months ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

At this point, it's more like a

Unknown (resized).jpg

#617 12 months ago

This would have been nice to hear from Jack a few weeks ago...

Still out, but Jack gave an honest answer I would have appreciated a few weeks ago... may have changed my decision.

#618 12 months ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Hmmm...he seems to dismiss the pre order customers and oh well it doesn't matter, non Pinside people will buy Potc for xmas and never even knew about the spinning discs.
What a load of shit. The visionary and "chief cheerleader". Keep on raising prices, taking stuff out, and see how that works out.

Posting this here again.

I don't think that's fair based on what Jack said in the interview. I just started listening and to be fair Jack does apologize right off the bat and says the days of JJP showing a game that isn't ready to be shipped are over. Jack also said the mechanism wasn't reliable to be put in games and they don't want another light board fiasco. He said he rather endure criticism right now to make a bullet proof game. Makes sense. Jack said pre-orders are not sales, well he's right. He also said he's respectful of his customers opinions, said the negative reactions come with the territory, etc. Jack also mentioned that the 3x disk will not be in a future version of POTC, maybe in another game one day if they can get it to work.

Good interview and feedback. I think POTC will stand on its own when all is said and done.

#619 12 months ago

Feels like a fair explanation from Jack based on the reality that is required to keep a business solvent.

I absolutely respect that.

..but, i am still out for now (not that my single purchase matters much), but perhaps not always. My biggest worry in the podcast, and the main reason for me applying the brakes, is that i personally have a difficult time getting a lot of game data from a screen while the ball is in motion.

The best feature to alien was the duplicate screen in the playfield. The player has that data, and everyone else gets to watch the TV.

Hopefully the game rocks and we can all eat crow over all the QQ.

Cheers!

#620 12 months ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

Kind of a worthless patent if the thing doesn't work properly.

Didn’t stop Jpop ....

rd

#621 12 months ago
Quoted from Frax:

There's prior art from 20 years ago. How many bally games had memory drop targets?

Other manufacturers used the copied feature of memory drop targets including Stern, Playmatic, and Taito.
This was common feature on many SS games from 1981-1985 in drop target "banks", but less common after 1988.
Some of the more recognized titles were Flight 2000, Meteor, Fathom, Centaur, and EBD but there are plenty of additional examples using individual controlled targets from the later SS era such as T2, FT, STTNG, BSD, RBION, and ST (Stern) whether timed or reset controlled. The entire list is quite long if you list every SS game that had a least one controlled target somewhere in the playfield design after 1979. Some would even count games like BK or BK2K in the mix, even though they are exclusively timed and not individually controlled.

Pinball innovation is for the most part stagnant today, as you literally can find examples of nearly every mechanism used from previous designs starting from the 1960s (or for other types of various amusements) and the concepts are recycled over and over again in new playfield design layouts. A person just has to go hunting and dig them out from history. If people want to see something really unique, they have to look much further back than the 1980s. The prime era of mechanical pinball innovation was from around 1947-1975, especially with areas such as animated figures in backglasses (or entire games) or other types of now legendary amusements such as Seeburg's "Shoot the Bear".

#622 12 months ago
Quoted from John_I:

So suddenly the exact same system actually works? There is DI sitting next to a Houdini and GOTG Pro in a nearby location. The DI is dark by comparison and the Houdini and GOTG Pro are nice and bright. They need to just put in sockets and LED bulbs, long overdue.

Yes, TH and DI are sufficiently lit in my opinion (I wish they kept RGB GI lighting though). Stern games can be seen from space...overly bright. I haven’t seen a Houdini, but if it’s as bright as GOTG, it’s crazy bright.

#623 12 months ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Posting this here again.
I don't think that's fair based on what Jack said in the interview. I just started listening and to be fair Jack does apologize right off the bat and says the days of JJP showing a game that isn't ready to be shipped are over. Jack also said the mechanism wasn't reliable to be put in games and they don't want another light board fiasco. He said he rather endure criticism right now to make a bullet proof game. Makes sense. Jack said pre-orders are not sales, well he's right. He also said he's respectful of his customers opinions, said the negative reactions come with the territory, etc. Jack also mentioned that the 3x disk will not be in a future version of POTC, maybe in another game one day if they can get it to work.
Good interview and feedback. I think POTC will stand on its own when all is said and done.

You can never post the same thing enough times! Keep it up.

#624 12 months ago

they didnt show the game to do us any favors. they did it to brag, hype up the game and steal the thunder from stern. they got a ton of orders for the game as the triple disc being the main selling point.
thanks jack “triple d”, please dont do US any favors.
you wont preview a game from now on and we wont pre-order, fair is fair. now i want to see if you are still gonna walk around allentown this year like you are the king of pinball.

#625 12 months ago
Quoted from robotron:

they didnt show the game to do us any favors. they did it to brag, hype up the game and steal the thunder from stern. they got a ton of orders for the game as the triple disc being the main selling point.
thanks jack “triple d”, please dont do US any favors.
you wont preview a game from now on and we wont pre-order, fair is fair. now i want to see if you are still gonna walk around allentown this year like you are the king of pinball.

They announced a game to promote and sell it, not to hype and steal. Your comments are small-minded.

#626 12 months ago
Quoted from robotron:

they didnt show the game to do us any favors. they did it to brag, hype up the game and steal the thunder from stern. they got a ton of orders for the game as the triple disc being the main selling point.
thanks jack “triple d”, please dont do US any favors.
you wont preview a game from now on and we wont pre-order, fair is fair. now i want to see if you are still gonna walk around allentown this year like you are the king of pinball.

No need to be like that things happen either buy or don't buy but bagging people on a personal level is not a cool way to go sorry bro I'm not happy bout it either but it's not easy running a business.

-3
#627 12 months ago

(edited my mod team)

#628 12 months ago

Good interview, thanks.

#629 12 months ago

Maybe having the virtual spinning disc on the back screen could be a blessing in disguise if it holds the ball while it does its thing it might give you time scull a beer.

#630 12 months ago
Quoted from tonycip:

(edited by mod team)

Wow what a rude and hateful comment. Jack said he's involved with decisions for every game, and does licensing work for JJP. He also said he's willing to help out anywhere he can. That's the type of employee I would want as someone representing a company. Without Jack there would be no JJP.

#631 12 months ago

2612844 (resized).jpg

#632 12 months ago

So will they be lowering the price since they cut features out of the game?

#633 12 months ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Wow what a rude and hateful comment. Jack said he's involved with decisions for every game, and does licensing work for JJP. He also said he's willing to help out anywhere he can. That's the type of employee I would want as someone representing a company. Without Jack there would be no JJP.

woops was that over the line..sorry.

#634 12 months ago

It's funny that the true value of "winning" a pinball show has now been exposed. Debuting games for the sake of debuting them, when you aren't ready to go into full-on manufacturing has no value, and probably is a negative.

#635 12 months ago

So have they ever said which part of the mech is unreliable? Like does it stop spinning? Or does one ring stop spinning? Like what about it is unreliable? Has anyone ever seen one broke?

Most of the time unreliable stuff is removed because the game can no longer function when it's broke (like if the 3 bank on AFM died or if the balls got stuck on the deadworld disc in JD). This isn't like that though, the game would still be playable even with it not spinning.

-1
#636 12 months ago
Quoted from tonycip:

woops was that over the line..sorry.

We're all annoyed (at the minimum) by disc gate but jjp is responsible for some of the best pinball machines ever made. Don't focus on what pirates has lost think about what it has.
PS take it from me don't drink and post if you're in a pissed off mood.

#637 12 months ago
Quoted from taylor34:

So have they ever said which part of the mech is unreliable? Like does it stop spinning? Or does one ring stop spinning? Like what about it is unreliable? Has anyone ever seen one broke?
Most of the time unreliable stuff is removed because the game can no longer function when it's broke (like if the 3 bank on AFM died or if the balls got stuck on the deadworld disc in JD). This isn't like that though, the game would still be playable even with it not spinning.

Yes.

#638 12 months ago

My engineering mind tells me this isn't that hard of a mech to make reliable. However, it will be somewhat expensive to do right. 3 nesting belt driven cups on a set of nesting shafts, with magnetic resolvers on each cup to locate "home" position. So is the problem reliability or expense?

#639 12 months ago
Quoted from JodyG:

My engineering mind tells me this isn't that hard of a mech to make reliable. However, it will be somewhat expensive to do right. 3 nesting belt driven cups on a set of nesting shafts, with magnetic resolvers on each cup to locate "home" position. So is the problem reliability or expense?

Both. You can solve almost any problem by throwing money at it but there is obviously a limit.

#640 12 months ago

Everyone really just needs to calm down. Half the people pitching a fit are going to end up buying one later on 3 disc or not. What is the point of putting down a fully refundable small deposit on a game that isn't getting made for 8 months anyway. Just wait until the games are shipping and in stock and buy one that is already in a box with all the fixes that the people that were in such a rush to have the game had to figure out for you. It's not like JJP doesn't keep making the game. Even if LE's (not an LE) sell out they will just come up with another one and keep making them as long as possible. There's no reason to rush to buy any of their games. There's also no reason to get so damn emotional about a luxury toy that all of us can live just fine with out.

Quoted from JodyG:

My engineering mind tells me this isn't that hard of a mech to make reliable. However, it will be somewhat expensive to do right. 3 nesting belt driven cups on a set of nesting shafts, with magnetic resolvers on each cup to locate "home" position. So is the problem reliability or expense?

They have stated numerous times that the problem is time. They ran out of time to get it as reliable as they needed it to be. They can't just close down the factory and wait 6 months to redesign the 3 disc mech.

#641 12 months ago
Quoted from musketd:

So will they be lowering the price since they cut features out of the game?

No. They are however giving you the option of not buying the game. That's going to have to do nobody in history has cut pinball prices and they won't start now.

#642 12 months ago
Quoted from frolic:

It's funny that the true value of "winning" a pinball show has now been exposed. Debuting games for the sake of debuting them, when you aren't ready to go into full-on manufacturing has no value, and probably is a negative.

Quoted from musketd:

So will they be lowering the price since they cut features out of the game?

No discount, but it will now ship with a nice rug, designed with the 3 concentric disk map.

#643 12 months ago

Thanks for posting the audio interview, I thought Jack seemed respectful of his customers, understanding of the disappointment (you shouldn’t show a birthday gift and then take it away, hard to unsee it, etc.), but firm with the decision. He seems to get that if JJP wants to be a successful pinball manufacturer they have to actually make and ship pinball machines, not endlessly redesign them.

Seems fair enough to me.

#644 12 months ago
Quoted from jgentry:

Everyone really just needs to calm down. Half the people pitching a fit are going to end up buying one later on 3 disc or not. What is the point of putting down a fully refundable small deposit on a game that isn't getting made for 8 months anyway. Just wait until the games are shipping and in stock and buy one that is already in a box with all the fixes that the people that were in such a rush to have the game had to figure out for you. It's not like JJP doesn't keep making the game. Even if LE's (not an LE) sell out they will just come up with another one and keep making them as long as possible. There's no reason to rush to buy any of their games. There's also no reason to get so damn emotional about a luxury toy that all of us can live just fine with out.

So give a discount then to people that had a pre-order hold in with a distributor, pretty simple in my opinion:
"Ooops we screwed up, sorry we didn't deliver on the "ground breaking features" we marketed and sold the game on and here's a little $ discount to those with money on a pre-order, take it by XX/XX date if you still want the game or pay the regular price down the road."
To me that is a small concession and shows they care about their customers many of which like myself have purchased every game so far and went through ridiculous waits and put thru the ringer on WOZ and even Hobbit to a degree. I feel I have earned that right being their customer since day one, if at the end of the day that doesn't mean anything to them, then it's a shame and best of luck to them in the future. Will I still buy the game.....probably...... just cause I think it still has a lot going on for it and Eric seems truly dedicated to making it great but at these prices I won't be a customer for much longer especially with getting burnt multiple times by them now and the prices continually going up at the same time.

#645 12 months ago
Quoted from bemmett:

So give a discount then to people that had a pre-order hold in with a distributor, pretty simple in my opinion:
"Ooops we screwed up, sorry we didn't deliver on the "ground breaking features" we marketed and sold the game on and here's a little $ discount to those with money on a pre-order, take it by XX/XX date if you still want the game or pay the regular price down the road."
To me that is a small concession and shows they care about their customers many of which like myself have purchased every game so far and went through ridiculous waits and put thru the ringer on WOZ and even Hobbit to a degree. I feel I have earned that right being their customer since day one, if at the end of the day that doesn't mean anything to them, then it's a shame and best of luck to them in the future. Will I still buy the game.....probably...... just cause I think it still has a lot going on for it and Eric seems truly dedicated to making it great but at these prices I won't be a customer for much longer especially with getting burnt multiple times by them now and the prices continually going up at the same time.

Some of you guys live in a dream world. You are not getting a discount. If you don't like the game as is then simply do not buy it. You can be mad at JJP all you want for the production waits on WOZ and TH but at some point you need to look in the mirror and realize that you keep preordering games from them and like you just said, you will get a POTC anyway. You bought games from them, they delivered the games to you, they worked with you and fixed the issues, they did not say you will get a discount.

#646 12 months ago
Quoted from bemmett:

So give a discount then to people that had a pre-order hold in with a distributor, pretty simple in my opinion:
"Ooops we screwed up, sorry we didn't deliver on the "ground breaking features" we marketed and sold the game on and here's a little $ discount to those with money on a pre-order, take it by XX/XX date if you still want the game or pay the regular price down the road."

Quoted from jgentry:

Some of you guys live in a dream world. You are not getting a discount. If you don't like the game as is then simply do not buy it. You can be mad at JJP all you want for the production waits on WOZ and TH but at some point you need to look in the mirror and realize that you keep preordering games from them and like you just said, you will get a POTC anyway. You bought games from them, they delivered the games to you, they worked with you and fixed the issues, they did not say you will get a discount.

There's a difference between feeling entitled to a discount -- the down-payments are fully refundable after all -- and thinking a modest discount, say $100 or $250, might have been a sound business decision on JJP's part to convert more pre-orders into sales under the circumstances.

#647 12 months ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

There's a difference between feeling entitled to a discount -- the down-payments are fully refundable after all -- and thinking a modest discount, say $100 or $250, might have been a sound business decision on JJP's part to convert more pre-orders into sales under the circumstances.

First everybody was in denial that the current spinner was gonna change...we had entire threads on it! And people really convinced themselves an entirely newly designed mech was a possibility, despite the cost and further delays that made the idea completely far-fetched.

So now that we have finally reached some acceptance and closure on that, everybody has moved on to begging for discounts.

Our long journey is almost at an end, but everybody needs to reach a final acceptance phase.

I'm gonna try to help-

The mech isn't changing, and there will be no discounts.

Everybody read the above line aloud to yourself 10 times. I guarantee you it will help.

#648 12 months ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

First everybody was in denial that the current spinner was gonna change...we had entire threads on it! And people really convinced themselves an entirely newly designed mech was a possibility, despite the cost and further delays that made the idea completely far-fetched.
So now that we have finally reached some acceptance and closure on that, everybody has moved on to begging for discounts.
Our long journey is almost at an end, but everybody needs to reach a final acceptance phase.
I'm gonna try to help-
The mech isn't changing, and there will be no discounts.
Everybody read the above line aloud to yourself 10 times. I guarantee you it will help.

There was a time (not sure if it still happens) when discounts were available through distributors on DI LEs and CEs. What makes this game any different?

#649 12 months ago
Quoted from DCFAN:

There was a time (not sure if it still happens) when discounts were available through distributors on DI LEs and CEs. What makes this game any different?

If that is actually true, it's still a different ballgame.

People are currently begging JJP to lower the MSRP. Clearly It's not going to happen, just like the pleas to send the game back into another expensive and lengthy development cycle to once again change the spinner mech didn't happen.

If you want to beg your individual distributors for clearance discounts on games they haven't even bought yet, knock yourself out. My guess is that will be pretty fruitless but it can't hurt.

-2
#650 12 months ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

There's a difference between feeling entitled to a discount -- the down-payments are fully refundable after all -- and thinking a modest discount, say $100 or $250, might have been a sound business decision on JJP's part to convert more pre-orders into sales under the circumstances.

How aboot Dinner for two at Estreia Restaurant in Lakewood (Transportation not included) for each CE or LE. BOGO dinner for an SE.

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