(Topic ID: 214657)

Who is second guessing their jjp potc preorder


By bigd1979

1 year ago



Topic Stats

  • 677 posts
  • 186 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by bemmett
  • Topic is favorited by 17 Pinsiders

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Topic poll

“Are you gonna cancel your order if the new spinning disk configuration stays?”

  • Yes 230 votes
    63%
  • No 70 votes
    19%
  • Gonna wait it out till my order is ready and then decide 68 votes
    18%

(368 votes)

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#451 1 year ago


On the fence...Do u think they shed delay and get it fixed and deliver...seems like alot of people are dropping out. I would think JJP would do something on this....

#452 1 year ago

I was in on the CE, switched to an LE and back to the CE. Need to get off pinside for a little bit! I think the artwork will change, spinner stays and an aftermarket mod for the trunk. After watching the stream again... the game still has a lot to offer.

#453 1 year ago
Quoted from RichieWrench:

On the fence...Do u think they shed delay and get it fixed and deliver...seems like alot of people are dropping out. I would think JJP would do something on this....

if you, no 1 fanboy drops out, ce sales are really in trouble!

#454 1 year ago
Quoted from RichieWrench:

On the fence...Do u think they shed delay and get it fixed and deliver...seems like alot of people are dropping out. I would think JJP would do something on this....

Problem is I really unfortunately think what you are seeing is what you will get...I just can't look at that eye soar in the middle then pay extra for a CE with it....

#455 1 year ago
Quoted from RichieWrench:

On the fence...Do u think they shed delay and get it fixed and deliver...seems like alot of people are dropping out. I would think JJP would do something on this....

From all we are being told, the decision has already been made to proceed with production with the announced changes. I deposited my refund check today.

#456 1 year ago

Refund check in the mail from joe.... very sad

#457 1 year ago
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

Here is assistance for a one sentence answer regarding WoZ price indexing.
Betson (west coast) paid $5500 for their bulk WoZ pre-order games in order to get them induced as a new pinball company and promote sales. It was part of negotiations to establish a distribution model, which previous did not exist at all. The whole buy direct concept had just gotten started after JJP established their website for sales. The company which I work paid $6000 for each of the three WoZ games according to the accountant and warranty individual records.
Neither were the suggested MSRP of $6500, which was close to BoM/product costs which included the additional overhead of the production line. Price was raised to an MSRP of $7500 after production recommenced after corrective redesign. The reason was JJP was continuing to lose money on every machine sold, regardless or not they sold in numbers. JJP really did not have a choice. My company refused to buy more games based on their track record on locations, especially for the added higher cost, and general RSD.
People need to stop looking exclusively through consumer lenses, as this is an industry, not exclusively a home market. An industry is not a market. More goes on than building private toys for people's houses, and pricing is far from universal for all parties dependent on sources. In them "olden days" (I can only go back as far as the 80s-90s) you could negotiate prices with local retailers, today competition is tighter due to the internet.
I don't speak for other people, what they paid, taxes including, or shipping, if applicable, but it is quite obvious some are not part of distributor networks or interact with large operators. If a person wants to argue that they paid $6500, and that was the "only price", that is not accurate. Not everyone was fixed at that price. No distributor or operator pays equivalent MSRP, unless the title is ridiculously "hot" as an earner, and most of the time is simply not cost efficient to do so. The answer is "Thanks, but I'll pass", and eventually the title deflates like a balloon, like nearly all do and then they buy a game or two.
I hope everyone gets the quality they pay for regarding their games.
Even Stern for all their QA/QC challenges has done a better job with manufacturing speed and game design (although recycled), especially considering the cost. Iron Maiden was quite remarkable overall, even though I am not a SPIKE fan.
We unboxed a Iron Maiden Pro two days ago, bulletproofed it due to small factory overlooks, and it has already made nearly $300 in less than 48 hours.
Not bad. It looks to be a continued strong earning title.
In comparison to this pinball, some jukebox locations here can make over $1200/month which is considered exceptional. Anything more than $600 is very good, $200-300 average, less than $100 and sometimes the equipment gets pulled permanently, new equipment only. In general, pinball machines do not make money, they just attract customers, except at large specialized venues. We have a backlog of venues that WANT pinball, but there simply is lack of inventory and technicians running full time to keep everything tip top at hundreds of route locations. It is not like route location owners understand what we are all saying, they just want to say "we have pinball machines here!" (to make more money on things like food and drinks)
Pinball is supposed to be about having fun (or money if an operator) anyway and this seems to be forgotten sometimes. If someone wants to buy a $12K unnecessary toy, it should give equivalent joy or income. I don't always see this today for whatever cost, unlike the past.

Thanks, I just learned a lot.

#458 1 year ago

The entire thing is very sad. I do not blame people for dropping. Maybe even half have dropped out. It's definitely not good and you think something would be done to try to make up for it and keep people happy.

#459 1 year ago
Quoted from BladeFury:

Problem is I really unfortunately think what you are seeing is what you will get...I just can't look at that eye soar in the middle then pay extra for a CE with it....

I have been away for a couple days. You are not kidding about the eye sore. Oh my, that is horrible. Now I understand the cheese pizza.

#460 1 year ago
Quoted from hank527:

The entire thing is very sad. I do not blame people for dropping. Maybe even half have dropped out. It's definitely not good and you think something would be done to try to make up for it and keep people happy.

A price drop would really help, but man that art is rough in the center of the playfield now.

#461 1 year ago

I'm waiting to see if any consolation is given for these changes, even a price drop would be something, without anything given back or changes made I may back out. Paying super high end $ for this game, buyers deserve some recourse

#462 1 year ago
Quoted from bemmett:

I'm waiting to see if any consolation is given for these changes, even a price drop would be something, without anything given back or changes made I may back out. Paying super high end $ for this game, buyers deserve some recourse

Eric said the one spinner was final,not the artwork.

23
#463 1 year ago

Basically one of two scenarios exist right now:

Either JJP is clueless about how to handle collector / enthusiast customers and are running into some form of financial constraint regarding this game (Ownership Pressure, Cash Flow, Earnings Target, etc.)

or

none of us collector / enthusiasts matter enough to the bottom line and these design changes help them achieve their goals with a market and demographic that has nothing to do with Pinside.

I've owned all the JJP pins to date, just missing a WOZ in the house at the moment. Pre-ordered a DICE and put up with the lack of communication regarding things throughout the development period. They did make changes from the original pictures presented in the pre-order, no material game play changes occurred, so when it showed up I was more than pleased. I am still waiting on my DICE Lunch though...

I canceled my CE on the second update, which honestly wasn't much of an update. In Canada the final price of the CE would be roughly $18,000.00 and some shipping costs. I can buy a number of light vehicles and other very material personal purchases in that type of price range.

Literally the difference from me continuing to pre-order whatever they made until the end of time like a dedicated customer and me second guessing if I'm going to bother to be excited about ordering anything again is the lack of communication that actually addressed the issue at hand which is:

The game was functionally changed from what was committed based on a set price. They took away functionality that has high PERCEIVED VALUE to the consumer, regardless of what the designer or owners think of the materiality of what was removed, the value taken away hasn't been addressed by them in order to make the customer happy.

The hilarious part is that a direct email or a phone call to the pre-order customer paying 10k+ on a CE unit regarding the situation would have probably calmed us most of to all of the way down. A video really explaining why the spinner sucks and an honest answer about why it has to go and an opportunity for real feedback would have probably allowed them to keep a bulk of customers happy. Which wouldn't cost much at all, yet would allow the perception of value to move from a spinning disk and opening chest onto what we should perceive value, the team and company building this product where we're appreciated clients.

I could have done without the spinner disk, as others have mentioned, it's just a pinball. Which is true, but isn't the point. This pre-order process has left me feeling like JJP as a company doesn't really care if I order or not. I don't feel like being one of the first to pre-order made any difference or me having multiple of their machines makes any difference, they didn't bother to treat me like the customer that I expect to be treated like.

Perhaps my perception is not correct, perhaps JJP knows exactly where their priorities are and we're not it. Maybe they feel because the deposit is refundable in most cases, that they shouldn't need to care or worry if a customer wants to bail out, because they can get their money back.

All I do know is that I'm out on my CE pre-order, I did get my money back and as a customer I feel like I've been screwed.
Now, I PERCEIVE I've been screwed. I'm not out any money, so why should I care?

I emotionally invested in the purchase, which is why I'm willing to pay 10k+ for a CE. I get excited when I pre-order a luxury item, I think about it, thinking about it brings me enjoyment while I wait for it, I get to talk about it with the mates while I wait and get more excited, then I get it and life goes on. The pre-order experience is something that needs to be managed in a luxury good. Which I believe many folks on Pinside see pinballs as, instead of a business item for their Bar, Arcade or Amusement Park.

I PERCEIVE I've been screwed because JJP handled my expectations poorly, didn't cater to my ego, didn't communicate squat to me officially that things had changed. Due to that I have a lack of trust about JJP. Now Jack, Eric and the team are good humans. What I'm talking about is do I TRUST I'll have a good experience the next time I do business with JJP. The answer is I trust them less now as a company than I did before. I don't trust they won't disappoint me in a pre-order process yet again and I don't trust I can buy a CE version of the game without pre-ordering. So where does this all leave me?

The fact that I'm this pissed off about not losing any money has been a great customer case study for me mentally. Luxury market mentally is way different than a FEC Operator mentality. I'm curious to know what percentage of collectors vs operators buy JJP vs Stern. I'm interested to see how many people share this type of view on pinside. I don't actually know if JJP as a company should care about my opinions, but I guess time will tell.

For me, I won't be pre-ordering from JJP for the next game and I'd probably go buy myself a ATV or something else instead of buy another pinball in the next few days to fill my emotional hole where a spinner should be.

Quoted from bemmett:

I'm waiting to see if any consolation is given for these changes, even a price drop would be something, without anything given back or changes made I may back out. Paying super high end $ for this game, buyers deserve some recourse

#464 1 year ago
Quoted from xizor:

The pre-order experience is something that needs to be managed in a luxury good.

Maybe JJP should get the louis vuitton licence to compete with the Supreme pin.

#465 1 year ago

Just cancelled my order this morning. I really like Eric and I hope they knock this one out of the park. But I'm all in for Iron Maiden.

#466 1 year ago
Quoted from cscmtp:

Just cancelled my order this morning. I really like Eric and I hope they knock this one out of the park. But I'm all in for Iron Maiden.

I thought JJPOTC was the best pin I ever played....then I played Maiden.

I still hope to own JJPOTC one day. It’s a fantastic game even without the spinner that wasn’t coded on the prototypes I played. But I Do plan to take a backseat on this one and see how it all plays out and play a full production version before I dive head first.

#467 1 year ago
Quoted from xizor:

The hilarious part is that a direct email or a phone call to the pre-order customer paying 10k+ on a CE unit regarding the situation would have probably calmed us most of to all of the way down. A video really explaining why the spinner sucks and an honest answer about why it has to go and an opportunity for real feedback would have probably allowed them to keep a bulk of customers happy. Which wouldn't cost much at all, yet would allow the perception of value to move from a spinning disk and opening chest onto what we should perceive value, the team and company building this product where we're appreciated clients.

Stern and JJP take us for granted. That simple.

I was in on Woz from Day one and lived through that experience. I too was going to be the long term JJP buyer and then the whole thing happened with TH, which i was fully paid on, and decided to cancel after that Expo years ago.

The way they handled this situation, sending Eric out there on a suicide mission, and then leaving us all to wonder until the stream, which was like a funeral march, was atrocious.

Like you said above, a simple video telling the truth, not "we are announcing some minor tweaks" and/or some damage control efforts by Jack, the man in charge, would at least make you believe they care enough and appreciate their customers.

#468 1 year ago

Yeah that artwork still looks ghastly. It seems like the no brainer for the spinner disk is to make it look like Jack's compass. I'm guessing the license holder won't let them use that image?

s-l1000 (resized).jpg

#469 1 year ago
Quoted from xizor:

Basically one of two scenarios exist right now:
Either JJP is clueless about how to handle collector / enthusiast customers and are running into some form of financial constraint regarding this game (Ownership Pressure, Cash Flow, Earnings Target, etc.)
or
none of us collector / enthusiasts matter enough to the bottom line and these design changes help them achieve their goals with a market and demographic that has nothing to do with Pinside.
I've owned all the JJP pins to date, just missing a WOZ in the house at the moment. Pre-ordered a DICE and put up with the lack of communication regarding things throughout the development period. They did make changes from the original pictures presented in the pre-order, no material game play changes occurred, so when it showed up I was more than pleased. I am still waiting on my DICE Lunch though...
I canceled my CE on the second update, which honestly wasn't much of an update. In Canada the final price of the CE would be roughly $18,000.00 and some shipping costs. I can buy a number of light vehicles and other very material personal purchases in that type of price range.
Literally the difference from me continuing to pre-order whatever they made until the end of time like a dedicated customer and me second guessing if I'm going to bother to be excited about ordering anything again is the lack of communication that actually addressed the issue at hand which is:
The game was functionally changed from what was committed based on a set price. They took away functionality that has high PERCEIVED VALUE to the consumer, regardless of what the designer or owners think of the materiality of what was removed, the value taken away hasn't been addressed by them in order to make the customer happy.
The hilarious part is that a direct email or a phone call to the pre-order customer paying 10k+ on a CE unit regarding the situation would have probably calmed us most of to all of the way down. A video really explaining why the spinner sucks and an honest answer about why it has to go and an opportunity for real feedback would have probably allowed them to keep a bulk of customers happy. Which wouldn't cost much at all, yet would allow the perception of value to move from a spinning disk and opening chest onto what we should perceive value, the team and company building this product where we're appreciated clients.
I could have done without the spinner disk, as others have mentioned, it's just a pinball. Which is true, but isn't the point. This pre-order process has left me feeling like JJP as a company doesn't really care if I order or not. I don't feel like being one of the first to pre-order made any difference or me having multiple of their machines makes any difference, they didn't bother to treat me like the customer that I expect to be treated like.
Perhaps my perception is not correct, perhaps JJP knows exactly where their priorities are and we're not it. Maybe they feel because the deposit is refundable in most cases, that they shouldn't need to care or worry if a customer wants to bail out, because they can get their money back.
All I do know is that I'm out on my CE pre-order, I did get my money back and as a customer I feel like I've been screwed.
Now, I PERCEIVE I've been screwed. I'm not out any money, so why should I care?
I emotionally invested in the purchase, which is why I'm willing to pay 10k+ for a CE. I get excited when I pre-order a luxury item, I think about it, thinking about it brings me enjoyment while I wait for it, I get to talk about it with the mates while I wait and get more excited, then I get it and life goes on. The pre-order experience is something that needs to be managed in a luxury good. Which I believe many folks on Pinside see pinballs as, instead of a business item for their Bar, Arcade or Amusement Park.
I PERCEIVE I've been screwed because JJP handled my expectations poorly, didn't cater to my ego, didn't communicate squat to me officially that things had changed. Due to that I have a lack of trust about JJP. Now Jack, Eric and the team are good humans. What I'm talking about is do I TRUST I'll have a good experience the next time I do business with JJP. The answer is I trust them less now as a company than I did before. I don't trust they won't disappoint me in a pre-order process yet again and I don't trust I can buy a CE version of the game without pre-ordering. So where does this all leave me?
The fact that I'm this pissed off about not losing any money has been a great customer case study for me mentally. Luxury market mentally is way different than a FEC Operator mentality. I'm curious to know what percentage of collectors vs operators buy JJP vs Stern. I'm interested to see how many people share this type of view on pinside. I don't actually know if JJP as a company should care about my opinions, but I guess time will tell.
For me, I won't be pre-ordering from JJP for the next game and I'd probably go buy myself a ATV or something else instead of buy another pinball in the next few days to fill my emotional hole where a spinner should be.

This is EXACTLY how I feel. Absolutely nailed it.

#470 1 year ago
Quoted from John_I:

It seems like the no brainer for the spinner disk is to make it look like Jack's compass. I'm guessing the license holder won't let them use that image?

Close enough?

F13487E5-002B-4218-8417-FBB5D0E31478 (resized).jpeg

#471 1 year ago

Can anyone name a more feature.packed pin?

#472 1 year ago
Quoted from Frax:

Maybe JJP should get the louis vuitton licence to compete with the Supreme pin.

Carguement; I see Supreme makes economy cars....

Texas car in Michigan no less...

20180417_123508 (resized).jpg

#473 1 year ago
Quoted from screaminr:

Can anyone name a more feature.packed pin?

WOZ, DI, TZ

#474 1 year ago
Quoted from spinal:

The leading proposal at
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/potc-save-the-3-disks-poll
requires no changes at all be made to hardware.
It requires only that:
1. The disc as it is has the ability to report via sensor (optos) what position it is in. I'm pretty sure it can do this as it was made to award random rewards.
2. That a disc that spins quickly can spin slowly. Now I can't really see why a variable speed disc could not more slowly.
I really wish someone else would chime in on this with more knowledge about this hardware but until then I can't see any reason why this is a stretch.
Importantly, this proposal is using the exact same hardware but with very slowly moving discs that have lost their original purpose of imparting spin on the ball, but now instead rotate around each other during gameplay. You make shots and depending on modes or goals, rings rotate around each other. You make a good shot and you get closer to aligning the rings for a mega jackpot or something else, then maybe you miss a shot and it is undone. So the better you are, the better you can align the rings to get the prize - exactly like the movie. Again for those of you new to this idea, there is no spinning except maybe slow spin to an original position at beginning of ball or mode, but rather rings might move to next orientation every once and a while and that's it. Like clock hands that can move in either direction except with discs.
The main point is the 3 rings still look very cool on the playfield and becomes more apart of gameplay - more than just the random prizes as before.
MOST IMPORTANTLY - this proposal should not require hardware changes - only software which makes it amenable to JJP's current rush, cut and run approach so I'm hoping has a greater chance. They could even ship and the code could catch up later if they are in such a rush.
Anyway can't see how this is less crazy than suggesting we throw away the entire mech and replace with a stock motor - I mean, I still can't believe this was suggested! It's called NOT THROWING OUT THE BABY WITH THE BATHWATER.
BTW, aurich's idea is brilliant but I'm going with the easier approach above because it seems as though JJP has already thrown in the towel and is on a rush mission, so trying to salvage with ideas that are the absolute easiest and quickest so that there is a hope.

Bump. My idea rocks.

#475 1 year ago

My cancellation was confirmed. I’m still hoping for a change of heart on JJPs part. I may change my mind once I play the final version.

#476 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Boys...I think it's Coil Countin' Time!!!

Jesus, the answer has been right under our noses this whole time! Real Solenoid Quicksteps to the rescue!

Get the Poopster on this stat! He’s got the ultimate set of tools. He can fix it!

#477 1 year ago
Quoted from xizor:

All I do know is that I'm out on my CE pre-order, I did get my money back and as a customer I feel like I've been screwed.
Now, I PERCEIVE I've been screwed. I'm not out any money, so why should I care?
I emotionally invested in the purchase

goyag (resized).jpg

#478 1 year ago

I need my safe space

rs-235381-safe-space00 (resized).jpg

14
#479 1 year ago

I backed down from my deal. No way I let them take away major features like that on my purchase.

#480 1 year ago
Quoted from screaminr:

Can anyone name a more feature.packed pin?

TSPP

-16
#481 1 year ago

They all have alot of features but if you add them all up not as many as pirates . Keep trying

#482 1 year ago
Quoted from screaminr:

They all have alot of features but if you add them all up not as many as pirates . Keep trying

Depends what u count as a feature... dile has alot of magnets, lcds, ramps and much more. Woz also has alot of the same with multiple playfields. Potc has lots of diverters, neat upper playfield and subway entrances. I think all jjp pins are comparable from a ,b.o.m standpoint.

#483 1 year ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

There are 162 coils

are you serious?my god thats a lot of coils

-2
#484 1 year ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Bottom line, its a brutal situation to be in for JJP.
They raised the price by $500 and now have to remove a main feature.
They have no one to blame but themselves despite feeling sorry for them and the individuals that put in the hard work.
When you have a long term game plan and you have deep pocket investors it seems they just made the decision to get it on the line, sell what you can, write of the loss and move on.
As pinhead consumers we invest as much or more emotionally into this hobby as any one I've ever been a part of. Thus, it feels personal when it doesn't work out. Yeah i know, 1st world problems.
Anyhow, life goes on! Onward and upward.

Wonder how far along the next title is, maybe just cancel POTC and move on. The expense is in manufacturing the games not the design.

-11
#485 1 year ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

Depends what u count as a feature... dile has alot of magnets, lcds, ramps and much more. Woz also has alot of the same with multiple playfields. Potc has lots of diverters, neat upper playfield and subway entrances. I think all jjp pins are comparable from a ,b.o.m standpoint.

If jjp says this is their most feature packed pin I'll go by them.

#486 1 year ago

I just didnt cancal my potcle bc of diskgate and the trunk but that helped. ... im very interested in toy story bc of pats work on di which is just a phenomenal shooting pin packed with neat shit. Plus im more interested in the toy s theme over potc.

#487 1 year ago
Quoted from screaminr:

If jjp says this is their most feature packed pin I'll go by them.

Was maybe lol jk.... but of course their gonna say that with every new release .. that marketing.

-4
#488 1 year ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

Was maybe lol jk.... but of course their gonna say that with every new release .. that marketing.

Why are you in denyal

#489 1 year ago
Quoted from screaminr:

Why are you in denyal

Lol...i really cld care less.

#490 1 year ago
Quoted from screaminr:

Why are you in denyal

Who is denyal?

#491 1 year ago
Quoted from xizor:

Basically one of two scenarios exist right now:
Either JJP is clueless about how to handle collector / enthusiast customers and are running into some form of financial constraint regarding this game (Ownership Pressure, Cash Flow, Earnings Target, etc.)
or
none of us collector / enthusiasts matter enough to the bottom line and these design changes help them achieve their goals with a market and demographic that has nothing to do with Pinside.
I've owned all the JJP pins to date, just missing a WOZ in the house at the moment. Pre-ordered a DICE and put up with the lack of communication regarding things throughout the development period. They did make changes from the original pictures presented in the pre-order, no material game play changes occurred, so when it showed up I was more than pleased. I am still waiting on my DICE Lunch though...
I canceled my CE on the second update, which honestly wasn't much of an update. In Canada the final price of the CE would be roughly $18,000.00 and some shipping costs. I can buy a number of light vehicles and other very material personal purchases in that type of price range.
Literally the difference from me continuing to pre-order whatever they made until the end of time like a dedicated customer and me second guessing if I'm going to bother to be excited about ordering anything again is the lack of communication that actually addressed the issue at hand which is:
The game was functionally changed from what was committed based on a set price. They took away functionality that has high PERCEIVED VALUE to the consumer, regardless of what the designer or owners think of the materiality of what was removed, the value taken away hasn't been addressed by them in order to make the customer happy.
The hilarious part is that a direct email or a phone call to the pre-order customer paying 10k+ on a CE unit regarding the situation would have probably calmed us most of to all of the way down. A video really explaining why the spinner sucks and an honest answer about why it has to go and an opportunity for real feedback would have probably allowed them to keep a bulk of customers happy. Which wouldn't cost much at all, yet would allow the perception of value to move from a spinning disk and opening chest onto what we should perceive value, the team and company building this product where we're appreciated clients.
I could have done without the spinner disk, as others have mentioned, it's just a pinball. Which is true, but isn't the point. This pre-order process has left me feeling like JJP as a company doesn't really care if I order or not. I don't feel like being one of the first to pre-order made any difference or me having multiple of their machines makes any difference, they didn't bother to treat me like the customer that I expect to be treated like.
Perhaps my perception is not correct, perhaps JJP knows exactly where their priorities are and we're not it. Maybe they feel because the deposit is refundable in most cases, that they shouldn't need to care or worry if a customer wants to bail out, because they can get their money back.
All I do know is that I'm out on my CE pre-order, I did get my money back and as a customer I feel like I've been screwed.
Now, I PERCEIVE I've been screwed. I'm not out any money, so why should I care?
I emotionally invested in the purchase, which is why I'm willing to pay 10k+ for a CE. I get excited when I pre-order a luxury item, I think about it, thinking about it brings me enjoyment while I wait for it, I get to talk about it with the mates while I wait and get more excited, then I get it and life goes on. The pre-order experience is something that needs to be managed in a luxury good. Which I believe many folks on Pinside see pinballs as, instead of a business item for their Bar, Arcade or Amusement Park.
I PERCEIVE I've been screwed because JJP handled my expectations poorly, didn't cater to my ego, didn't communicate squat to me officially that things had changed. Due to that I have a lack of trust about JJP. Now Jack, Eric and the team are good humans. What I'm talking about is do I TRUST I'll have a good experience the next time I do business with JJP. The answer is I trust them less now as a company than I did before. I don't trust they won't disappoint me in a pre-order process yet again and I don't trust I can buy a CE version of the game without pre-ordering. So where does this all leave me?
The fact that I'm this pissed off about not losing any money has been a great customer case study for me mentally. Luxury market mentally is way different than a FEC Operator mentality. I'm curious to know what percentage of collectors vs operators buy JJP vs Stern. I'm interested to see how many people share this type of view on pinside. I don't actually know if JJP as a company should care about my opinions, but I guess time will tell.
For me, I won't be pre-ordering from JJP for the next game and I'd probably go buy myself a ATV or something else instead of buy another pinball in the next few days to fill my emotional hole where a spinner should be.

This represents my thoughts exactly. I own a WOZ RR, WOZ std, DILE and TH Smaug Gold. I have a JJPOTC LE deposit down. I am a huge JJP sycophant but this announcement has me rethinking my future purchase. I am hopeful that something will be done to make it up to us. I might just save myself a few thousand and pick up an ACNC or wait and see on TBL.

#492 1 year ago
Quoted from Pimp77:

Who is denyal?

I think it’s a state

-12
#493 1 year ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

Lol...i really cld care less.

Who cares if you care, what you say is wrong simple as that.

IMG_20180422_175912 (resized).jpg

#494 1 year ago
Quoted from Cycloneman:

are you serious?my god thats a lot of coils

Glancing at the manual, I counted 54 on the playfield.

#495 1 year ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

Glancing at the manual, I counted 54 on the playfield.

wow

#496 1 year ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

I think it’s a state

no i think it was some woman who was just passing through.lol!!

#497 1 year ago
Quoted from Cycloneman:

no i think it was some woman who was just passing through.lol!!

I think it's a city in Alaska or a trim level of GMC trucks.

#498 1 year ago
Quoted from screaminr:

Who cares if you care, what you say is wrong simple as that.

Do more features make a better pin? My TZ is way more packed than my MMr, but is it better? Well, it might be... ok, another approach. If features are so important, then why remove one of the most important? I was gonna buy POTC despite the theme because it was like a Swiss watch. The watch just lost part of the dial. Or how about this...I’d rather drive a stick sports car than a loaded minivan. Oh, whatever.

#499 1 year ago

Will this reflect bad on Eric in JJPs eyes? I hope not. But he did design the mechs that failed and caused a ton of people to drop out.

#500 1 year ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

I just didnt cancal my potcle bc of diskgate and the trunk but that helped. ... im very interested in toy story bc of pats work on di which is just a phenomenal shooting pin packed with neat shit. Plus im more interested in the toy s theme over potc.

Im afraid of the price JJP will throw at us for a Toy story pin. I see the base model being 9500 with a 11500 premium, and a 15000 CE. God i hope im wrong.

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