Why isn't Tesla broke? 5 billion is subsidies via tax breaks, cashable environmental credits, tax credits, direct loans & taxpayer funded rebates for buyers of Tesla.

Stats show when the rebates disappear, so do the car sales.

Also getting more capital will not be a problem for Elon if ever needed :

No, I do not short stocks or invest in single stocks. I just ran the math.

The amazon comparison is not apt. Amazon lost very little money relative to revenue. They broke even which is VERY different than going billions of dollars into debt.

https://s1.ibtimes.com/sites/www.ibtimes.com/files/styles/embed/public/2013/12/18/amzn-chart_0.jpg

They spent most of their money on R&D. Also Amazon eventually undercut price wise their competitors so they had a value proposition that allowed them to attain near monopoly status in e-commerce.

Finally, amazon diversified. They invented cloud computing, they built a delivery network, etc. Tesla isn’t losing money to corner markets, they are losing money at their core competency against well established competitors who are way better at manufacturing than they are.

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Let's just leave it at you have your opinion and I have mine.

Keeps getting rave Reviews like this. Sales will go ballistic.

Why don't you ask him yourself odin if your that interested?

No offense, but that model 3 is fugly.

I agree. Not a fan of the styling. I’m a Porsche guy.

I think my Macan or the 2018 Cayenne smoke the looks of the ModelX I just picked up.

Those legacy manufacturers sure know how to build electric vehicles. They have their problems too:

https://electrek.co/2018/08/22/ford-recalls-charging-cables-electric-vehicles/

Yeah I like the Macan too...I got to sit in an X a few weeks ago, and it's probably my favorite now. Something about the spaceship interior and gull wings....I'm a sucker for quirky. I should probably revise my comment...it's not that the 3 is that ugly (well that front is), but it's just kind of blah. Might be the boring white of that one contributes to it.
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I think Tesla probably builds the best EV in the model S. I think the early 3s are suffering from some growing pains and rush to build.

Since the price point is $78K for performance, the general consensus will need to be its high quality. Beyond that, Tesla service will now have 10x the customers in no time flat. Hopefully they are hiring like crazy. Else it could go sour fast waiting for service. It's such an explosive growth with the M3.

What would the Internet be without the toxic people? Pretty boring I guess.

This explains a lot - https://evannex.com/blogs/news/who-are-the-tesla-haters-and-what-do-they-want

Ahh another conspiracy theory!

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Odin your older brother is right. It is a different way of thinking. With a gas car you leave in the morning from home and you may or may not have to gas up on the way. Because we all know a majority of us do not gas up on the way home. We always wait until the next day to gas up. We put it off (Human Nature)
With an electric car you always leave the house with a full charge. If you calculate just this part into daily driving it's a lot more pleasing . You never spend anytime during the day gasing up. Average mileage driven in a day is 50 miles. When it comes to a long road trip you have to charge up along the way. There is always pee breaks,lunch breaks etc. It's those times when there is opportunities to charge. You get about 170 miles in 30 minutes with the Model 3. It does take a bit longer to get to your destination on long trips but it is a more enjoyable trip overall and you meet some new friends along the way.

I disagree, I get gas on my way home from work once every week or so.
On long trips on the Toll Roads such as the James W. Shocknessy Ohio Turnpike, America's First Superhighway, The Pennsylvania Turnpike, IFM Investors' Indiana Toll Road etc. I get gas, grab some food and maybe use the facilities. I can't recharge a Tesla though. I would have to exit to charge the vehicle. There is fee to use an interchange by the way. Not viable for me.

Mr. Bally it doesn't matter if you gas up coming home or going to work you are still spending time gasing up. Electric vehicle is charged at home. No wasted time gasing up when daily driving. I'm not familiar with that area of highway so I'll give you that. But in the future I'm sure that area will be covered too.

Musk has completely lost the plot.

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/elon-musk-claims-diver-thai-233913389.html

BTW: Tesla isn't just a car company. It's a forward-looking energy company:
https://www.powermag.com/tesla-virtual-power-plant-takes-shape-in-australia/

Maybe Musk is projecting?

The dotcom landscape is littered with failed companies and their true believers. The fact that he's working 120 hours a week should be enough to tell you something. Tesla was a disruptor, disruptors work and grow when the competition is dumb or slow. If the competition starts selling the same product for a better price and with dealer and parts support you're no longer a disruptor....you're toast.

Superchargers are so far between right now they are not really relevant, even still 20-30min is still to long to replace gas cars.

Id actually really like to dive one, look fun - but until deficiencies are corrected it would have to be a 3rd car not a primary driver.

I was never in, but after reading this I am definitely out and will never be in

https://www.driven.co.nz/news/news/suzuki-and-lexus-top-new-reliability-survey-tesla-on-the-bottom/?ref=nzhhome

It's not just that they placed last.

It's the difference between last and next to last. If that's not the largest discrepancy ever, it certainly is in the 2000s.

There's as big a difference between first and next to last as there is next to last and Tesla. Next to last is Land Rover, who themselves trail the pack (by less), and that's mainly because they're selling a few of the ancient Defenders still, which are due for imminent replacement after about 35 years.

But it's absolutely no surprise. Judging by what taxi drivers who operate them here have told me, reading reports, and just seeing the shocking build quality, it's expected.

Also, I see contractors' vans (who they sub the work out to) parked in this neighbourhood often, working on Teslas that have broken down. Only spoke to one of the engineers, but he said they often wake up dead or with major systems dead, rather than developing serious faults out on the road.

It is heartening to see a legitimate Automobile Manufacturer like Mercedes produce an dependable electric vehicle. The Germans embraced and improved solar power as well as alternative fuel sources early on, I see no reason why they won't quickly take their rightful place in the World as "The" best electric vehicle Manufacturer.
Tesla's shoddy construction, manic CEO and overpricing with late delivery all combine to an eventual tragic future, sooner rather than later. It's probably time for them to quit playing, sell out and let the real Auto Companies produce electric vehicles.

It's not just Mercedes. They're going to get eaten alive from all quarters in practically any objective measure.

Jaguar and Audi either have or are launching directly competitive vehicles this year; Porsche will be in the same segment in about 9 months. There'll be numerous BMWs and Volvos soon. Floodgates on Japanese EVs will open shortly.

Probably the most important EV of the year is barely being talked about in the West ... the Hyundai Kona Electric just launched in Europe and earlier in Asia. It's a small SUV with a 300+ mile range with the larger battery option. The smaller battery version (good for about 170 miles) will likely cost about $28k in the US. The bigger one $32-33k. Build quality's immensely better than any of the Teslas. Needless to say that reliability will be in a totally different class.

VW are funnelling $40Bn into EV development before 2022.

The other giants aren't going to take a back seat forever. Ford, Fiat, PSA, Renault / Nissan, GM will all be there. The Chinese are pushing hard, under pressure from their own government (under pressure from their own people over air quality), most notably in the West through thier investments in Volvo and LTI ... but that's just the tip of the iceberg.

I'll also be amazed if Samsung don't enter the market too, at least for small / city cars. They have huge investments in battery technology, AI, user interfaces, embedded processors, electric motors. They could make practically all of the technical or electrical stuff in house.

Then there are wild cards like Dyson, who already have hundreds of engineers working on future EVs, and have a record of disrupting established product categories. Particularly when it's heavily rumoured that a battery company they acquired a few years ago have recently made a major technological breakthrough, around which their whole EV business is intended to revolve.

The fanboys ask how the rest of the industry can compete with Tesla. The better question is how can Tesla possibly compete with the rest of the industry, especially given the massive wastage, dire looking books, and an increasingly unhinged CEO / President / Largest shareholder. The colossal subsidies they've benefited from for years are drying up and they now have to go 'legit'.

Give it 12 months, and anyone who's not a brand slave would have to be mad to buy a Tesla in ANY segment of the EV market, over the competition. Going forward, all I see them being able to count on is built-in-'Murica status. So maybe they can take over the segment that Rams and F150s currently occupy in the US. Might be a bit difficult to roll coal with them though, and I'm pretty sure Ford, GM and FC will have those bases covered anyway.

The boys in marketing can work with this one -- "Safety First - Dies in the Garage, Not on the Highway"

I would be if the prices were lower, these puppies keep resale value like no other. I miss the bare bones versions of years past and dislike the larger body style of the current offering. I have been seriously looking used vehicles lately and narrowed it down to 4, the Toyota Sienna, the 4-Runner, the Corolla and the ?. The way I keep vehicles it may be my last so I want something that will endure, comfortable drivers seat the first priority.
My dream Tacoma is like ISIS or Somalian Armies are using in the desert. I wish we could get that model over here.
Great synopsis on the EV state of affairs Rubbernecks!

Since these threads are about new vehicles, what NEW vehicle are you actually going to buy in the NEAR or 1-3 year FUTURE, or state that you will never buy a new vehicle in the future.

Musk on the Joe Rogan podcast

Bad day for TSLA. Seems like their financial trouble is very real.

"Stormy day in Longville"

I saw no "New Vehicle" limitations imposed by the OP, in fact the very opposite. Perhaps you are in the wrong thread.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/elon-musks-high-and-teslas-low-stock-and-bonds-tumble-on-ceos-latest-shenanigans-2018-09-07

Up in smoke....in so many ways!

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http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-musk-marijuana-youtube-20180907-story.html

I am interested that there is a whole thread dedicated to people who supposedly aren't interested in Tesla badmouthing Tesla because... ???

I mean, hey, whatever floats your boat.

Got here on accident thinking I was logging into the other Tesla thread. Makes more sense to talk about things I'm excited but whatever, internet.

For many of you, I think once you get the chance to drive an electric car, be it a Tesla or other, you might be surprised. We got a Leaf on a whim last year because both our cars were dying. Cost $7600. Been to the shop once for a quick sensor issue, no other repairs. Including electricity cost, saved us over $100 / month in gas costs.

Have had two friends get Leaf's since then after they experienced ours. No, it's not a cross country car that will take me to Alaska and back without needing to stop or whatever, but it's a perfect second car for around town. Plan now is to replace the almost completely dead gas car with a long range electric ASAP. I don't mind a 30 minute stop after four hours of driving because I don't drive more than that without stopping anyway. I'll be more than happy to not have to worry about oil changes or fueling up or whatever in the meantime. It's a great solution for me.

It's not for everyone.

And that's okay.

I like Viper Night Drivin' Pinball. A lot of people think it sucks. That's also okay.

o-din wanted to talk Tesla and they kicked him out of the other thread, so he started his own. I think that about sums it up!

People are making way too much about that. I believe he took one puff and went on to say that he does not care for it because he feels it decreases productivity and instead likes his caffeinated drinks which give the opposite effects. He has been known to work long hours.

A nervous breakdown would be much more likely from the stress of his goals than overusing marijuana which he does not appear to enjoy.

I disagree....What you do on your own time and in your own privacy, I couldn't care less, as long as it doesn't hurt the public at large. You want to toke a blunt behind closed doors, that's fine, as long as you stay there and don't jump behind a wheel of a car, airplane, bus, etc. Then it becomes my problem. As a CEO in charge of billions of $, the face of a company that employs thousands, and the reason that investors gain or lose money, you are affecting the public at large when you take a toke in public. Simple as that. You won't see any other major CEO pull such a ridiculous stunt, or call a rescue worker a pedophile without evidence, or any other such erratic behavior. Sure, google the internet, and you can find isolated incidents, but almost all have dire consequences.

Lastly, Elon is already tagged with eccentric behavior and already rumored to do heavy drugs. We at least know he abuses ambien. He doesn't get the benefit of the doubt anymore. He has to realize this and tone it down.

A real Corporation has -Zero- tolerance for drug use. The Board of Directors should fire him immediately, with cause. He deserves no parting gifts. None.

He did a legal drug. I know that Marijuana scares some people for whatever reason, but really, he did nothing different than having a beer where he was.

I agree with some of the erratic behavior stuff. The cave diver thing is out of line, although I also understand the frustration he would have had from that whole situation.

Having said that, and this is coming from a guy who has never done any drugs that weren't prescribed to me and who barely drinks at all, it seems a lot of people forget that Marijuana is legal in more and more places. What he did is not materially different than drinking a beer, which ceos do and heck, Obama did as president in some "beer summit" a few years ago.

Musk is in a very progressive state running a very progressive company.

Having said that, I do think they need to find a second person to back him up strongly and keep him out of the limelight a bit. The company he runs is doing amazing things. A lot of that is being overlooked because people are seeing his statements instead.

I couldn't care less what he does in private to be honest. But plenty of important people with deep pockets do care what he says and does in public.

As CEO of a public company he should know better.