Elon is losing his mind. But according to the die hard fanboys....stability isn't needed at the helm of Tesla.
I wonder who will play him in a movie. I'm going to guess Mark Wahlberg
(Topic ID: 223372)
Raleigh, NC
Quoted from ImNotNorm:https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/aug/29/elon-musk-doubles-down-on-pedo-claims-against-uk-cave-diver
Elon is losing his mind. But according to the die hard fanboys....stability isn't needed at the helm of Tesla.
I wonder who will play him in a movie. I'm going to guess Mark Wahlberg
No way....Kevin Durand
Quoted from ImNotNorm:But according to the die hard fanboys....stability isn't needed at the helm of Tesla.
Sure, who cares if their stock is one of the only ones dropping while the market is hitting an all time high. Who needs investors like that, with all the pre-orders for the car.
Quoted from o-din:Anything to keep me showing up.
I find it pretty hard to believe that your employer would gladly pay you to surf Pinside and not do your job.
Quoted from o-din:Was an auto tech for 30 years. Buying, fixing, and selling cars was part of it.
Of course with those cars I was able to easily source parts.
How do you feel about all the computerization of cars? My grandpa was a master mechanic and hated computers going into cars because he couldn't fix them.
Quoted from o-din:I guess I'm doing the same thing with all your ASSumptions.
You're not very good at it. There are plenty of reasons why an EV might not be the best choice for someone.
The problem is, your responses are textbook 'don't make these mistakes when trying to debate.'
The biggest thing you do is to use personal attacks like you just did there calling me an ASS, which also violates rule #1 on the board here.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
Do you think you can stop that and just be civil?
Quoted from Brijam:The problem is, your responses are textbook 'don't make these mistakes when trying to debate.'
The biggest thing you do is to use personal attacks like you just did there calling me an ASS, which also violates rule #1 on the board here.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
Do you think you can stop that and just be civil?
To be fair, you did just call him an ignoramus. Or is that permissible under Robert's Rules of Order so long as you let Isaac Asimov deliver the insult for you?
Quoted from Brijam:I find it pretty hard to believe that your employer would gladly pay you to surf Pinside and not do your job.
Again you are ASSuming something you know nothing about. He pays me to be here, do my job, and whatever else it takes to keep me here. He knows all about it and has his own ways of passing the time while he is here instead of me.
Would I rather be doing something else than explaining to you details about every comment I make? Perhaps, but it is passing the time so what the heck.
What I do know is if you are a typical example of a Tesla owner, then I am really glad to not be a part of that club.
Quoted from Brijam:How do you feel about all the computerization of cars? My grandpa was a master mechanic and hated computers going into cars because he couldn't fix them.
It was a good money maker as it caused problems that were never there before. Sometimes right after the car rolled off the showroom floor. I was all over fixing those shitboxes. Didn't take a genius to work on them, although it probably helped. I don't fix them anymore, but from what I understand, it is still an issue today with some car companies more than others
Quoted from fosaisu:To be fair, you did just call him an ignoramus. Or is that permissible under Robert's Rules of Order so long as you let Isaac Asimov deliver the insult for you?
Willfully ignorant, to be specific. Honestly it wasn't meant as an insult, more as a friendly wake up call.
I don't think we should let people get away with being willfully ignorant. Opinions, sure, believe what you want. But if a person is presented with facts that refute a claim, and they choose to ignore that and don't present facts to back up their assertion, that's willfully being ignorant. It needs to be called out. It's time to start drawing a line, people.
Or is that kind of behavior okay now?
Quoted from Brijam:Willfully ignorant, to be specific. Honestly it wasn't meant as an insult, more as a friendly wake up call.
I don't think we should let people get away with being willfully ignorant. Opinions, sure, believe what you want. But if a person is presented with facts that refute a claim, and they choose to ignore that and don't present facts to back up their assertion, that's willfully being ignorant. It needs to be called out. It's time to start drawing a line, people.
Or is that kind of behavior okay now?
If you want to discuss the facts -- presumably you meant the facts about Tesla Model 3, not the facts about o-din -- then why are you derailing the conversation with complaints about his debate technique? If he's hiding behind willful ignorance as you say, that should be plain enough to the neutral reader without condescending comments from you and Isaac Asimov.
[EDIT: Looking back, you're also off in the weeds about his cell phone plan and his boss's liberal internet usage policies -- what does any of that have to do with the Tesla Model 3?]
Quoted from fosaisu:If you want to discuss the facts -- presumably you meant the facts about Tesla Model 3, not the facts about o-din -- then why are you derailing the conversation with complaints about his debate technique? If he's hiding behind willful ignorance as you say, that should be plain enough to the neutral reader without condescending comments from you and Isaac Asimov.
[EDIT: Looking back, you're also off in the weeds about his cell phone plan and his boss's liberal internet usage policies -- what does any of that have to do with the Tesla Model 3?]
2gtn5i (resized).jpg
Vancouver, BC
Hey Odin,
There is a change taking place in the automotive world and that is EV's. Tesla is the initial disrupter. There has been many attacks on Tesla to try and make it derail so the legacy automotive manufacturers do not have to conform . Unfortunately for them Tesla is still around. Why you ask.? Because they make a product people love and support. Not all people obviously . But enough people to see Tesla grow double digits . But don't take my word for it just look at Tesla Sales since they have ramped up. At the end of this month they probably will reach #5 in sales in the US. Legacy automotive makers have taken note and are now coming out with there own car or SUV eg. Porsche, Jaguar, Audi and many others. I realize EV's are only currently 1% of the current market but over time with Legacy manufacturers introducing their own cars or SUV's over the next few years that is going to change rapidly. There will be a day Odin when you will come over from the Darkside and enjoy the many benefits of EV's. Maybe the 3 is not your cup of tea but maybe a Taycan or Ipace or should I say a Model Y. Eventually there will be a model that fits your needs. Besides it's becoming harder and harder to find gas stations in the cities anymore. The real estate is worth so much more it just doesn't make sense to keep it as a gas station. Better as Condos.
Quoted from Nilroc:There will be a day Odin when you will come over from the Darkside and enjoy the many benefits of EV's
I already did back in the 90s with my Super Blackfoot remote controlled car. But that was from a company called Tamiya that I had a long history with going back to my childhood when I built a fully detailed model of a Tiger I tank. So I had faith in them and trusted them and the end product was something I had lots of fun with.
But yes, change is on the horizon, and it is only a matter of time before the big three catch up with Tesla and start implementing all the great features you can't get in a regular car.
tucker-movie-1-nw (resized).jpgQuoted from o-din:I already did back in the 90s with my Super Blackfoot remote controlled car. But that was from a company called Tamiya that I had a long history with going back to my childhood when I built a fully detailed model of a Tiger I tank. So I had faith in them and trusted them and the end product was something I had lots of fun with.
But yes, change is on the horizon, and it is only a matter of time before the big three catch up with Tesla and start implementing all the great features you can't get in a regular car.[quoted image]
I doubt Tesla is worried about the Big Three as much as they are the Chinese....
Quoted from o-din:[quoted image]
Opinions not welcome. Or they might be misconstrued as being stated as fact.
It really shouldn't be hard to distinguish opinion from fact, but apparently many people cannot.
Opinion: I love my Tesla Model S
Fact: The Tesla Model S is the best selling luxury car in the USA
Quoted from fosaisu:If you want to discuss the facts -- presumably you meant the facts about Tesla Model 3, not the facts about o-din -- then why are you derailing the conversation with complaints about his debate technique? If he's hiding behind willful ignorance as you say, that should be plain enough to the neutral reader without condescending comments from you and Isaac Asimov.
[EDIT: Looking back, you're also off in the weeds about his cell phone plan and his boss's liberal internet usage policies -- what does any of that have to do with the Tesla Model 3?]
Hello there, 'stay on topic policeman.' I admit to the error of my ways and hereby confess to derailing the topic on multiple occasions.
Quoted from Brijam:It really shouldn't be hard to distinguish opinion from fact, but apparently many people cannot.
No it shouldn't. When you pull out a quote of mine where I started the statement with the words "I'm guessing" as that I am stating fact. And then go calling me ignorant for doing so.
And then go make your own assumptions about my situation at work that you know nothing about.
I suppose in the world you live in, you bend and distort everything to your liking to somehow prove you are more intelligent and superior to those that don't agree with you.
Perhaps I'm wrong.
Maybe in your own mind you already think you are more intelligent and superior to all those around you. And bending and distorting things and berating those with different points of view is your way of trying to convince others how superior and intelligent you are.
All I can say is GLWT!
Quoted from o-din:No it shouldn't. When you pull out a quote of mine where I started the statement with the words "I'm guessing" as that I am stating fact. And then go calling me ignorant for doing so.
When anyone says "I'm guessing" and is wrong about their guess, I'm gonna point it out o-din. Get used to it. Saying "I guess" isn't an opinion. It's a guess, which can be right or wrong.
Not ignorant -- willfully ignorant. We're all ignorant about a great many things. A person is being willfully ignorant if they read a fact and keep saying "that isn't true." That's also a fact, not an insult.
If you think I'm posting opinions instead of facts, point them out and I'll either back it up with more data or concede the point.
Quoted from o-din:And then go make you own assumptions about my situation at work that you know nothing about.
I suppose in the world you live in, you bend and distort everything to your liking to somehow prove you are more intelligent and superior to those that don't agree with you.
If you go back and read, I actually asked questions about your employer which you answered. I'm still surprised your boss is cool with you screwing off at work on Pinside, but okay, I accept your answer.
Again with the personal attacks. Stop it.
Quoted from Brijam:Fact: The Tesla Model S is the best selling luxury car in the USA
I don't think what you said above is a true fact.
ACT, PSR, Ward's and even the free site Statista show the BMW 5, 4 and 3 series, Lexus ES and IS, Mercedes C as well as Infiniti Q50 all outselling the Tesla Model S in the United States this year. Some by a factor of 2 to 1.
All are classified as "luxury cars".
Quoted from Nilroc:Hey Odin,
There is a change taking place in the automotive world and that is EV's. Tesla is the initial disrupter. There has been many attacks on Tesla to try and make it derail so the legacy automotive manufacturers do not have to conform . Unfortunately for them Tesla is still around. Why you ask.? Because they make a product people love and support. Not all people obviously . But enough people to see Tesla grow double digits . But don't take my word for it just look at Tesla Sales since they have ramped up. At the end of this month they probably will reach #5 in sales in the US. Legacy automotive makers have taken note and are now coming out with there own car or SUV eg. Porsche, Jaguar, Audi and many others. I realize EV's are only currently 1% of the current market but over time with Legacy manufacturers introducing their own cars or SUV's over the next few years that is going to change rapidly. There will be a day Odin when you will come over from the Darkside and enjoy the many benefits of EV's. Maybe the 3 is not your cup of tea but maybe a Taycan or Ipace or should I say a Model Y. Eventually there will be a model that fits your needs. Besides it's becoming harder and harder to find gas stations in the cities anymore. The real estate is worth so much more it just doesn't make sense to keep it as a gas station. Better as Condos.
By the end of this month, which is 2 days from now, Tesla will be top 5 in sales in the US? Is that the claim you’re making? I’ll even give you until the end of the year, and there is no way Tesla is cracking the top 5. There is no way, no matter how much I like Tesla, that they are beating out either GM, Ford, Chrysler, Honda or Toyota. If you have some figures that shed light on your statement I would be curious to see them, because everything I’ve seen doesn’t say they are anywhere close to the top 5.
Quoted from robertmee:Honest question here....what happens if you do run out of "fuel". In an ICE car I can walk to a gas station, flag someone down, etc. If an EV goes dead on a country road are there mobile charging service vehicles? Is it still a 12v system that can be charged from another vehicle? Or is a tow necessary?
16 hours later and since the so called experts on this vehicle obviously had more important things to discuss, I did a little research of my own. Now I'm not going to say "I'm guessing" and go thru that again, but all roads and many statements on many websites seem to point to this.
tesla-towing-san-diego (resized).jpgQuoted from Procrastinator:By the end of this month, which is 2 days from now, Tesla will be top 5 in sales in the US? Is that the claim you’re making? I’ll even give you until the end of the year, and there is no way Tesla is cracking the top 5. There is no way, no matter how much I like Tesla, that they are beating out either GM, Ford, Chrysler, Honda or Toyota. If you have some figures that shed light on your statement I would be curious to see them, because everything I’ve seen doesn’t say they are anywhere close to the top 5.
https://cleantechnica.com/2018/08/17/tesla-model-3-might-5th-best-selling-car-in-usa-in-august/
Quoted from MrBally:I don't think what you said above is a true fact.
ACT, PSR, Ward's and even the free site Statista show the BMW 5, 4 and 3 series, Lexus ES and IS, Mercedes C as well as Infiniti Q50 all outselling the Tesla Model S in the United States this year. Some by a factor of 2 to 1.
All are classified as "luxury cars".
Sorry, you're right. I mean the Model 3.
Quoted from Nilroc:This is what model 3 did to competition in July for mid sized luxury sedans:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2018/07/30/the-tesla-model-3-blew-away-the-competition-in-july-infographic/#4e9630381c90
Clear up some confusion. How can you sell 16,000 vehicles in July, but only produce 5000 in July? I'd like to see how Tesla is doing on delivered vehicles vs their rivals. Aren't those 16,000 sales mostly $1,000 pre-order deposits, not full sales? I don't think that's a fair comparison.
Quoted from Procrastinator:By the end of this month, which is 2 days from now, Tesla will be top 5 in sales in the US? Is that the claim you’re making? I’ll even give you until the end of the year, and there is no way Tesla is cracking the top 5. There is no way, no matter how much I like Tesla, that they are beating out either GM, Ford, Chrysler, Honda or Toyota. If you have some figures that shed light on your statement I would be curious to see them, because everything I’ve seen doesn’t say they are anywhere close to the top 5.
Well the Model is already in #7 position in July:
https://insideevs.com/tesla-model-3-outsold-all-mercedes-benz-cars-combined/
"Ford and Chevrolet don’t have a single passenger model that can beat the Model 3 in volume."
Every month this year is expected to have more deliveries than the last.
Quoted from robertmee:Clear up some confusion. How can you sell 16,000 vehicles in July, but only produce 5000 in July? I'd like to see how Tesla is doing on delivered vehicles vs their rivals. Considering that those 16,000 sales are really 1,000 pre-order deposits, I don't think that's a fair comparison.
Where did you get the July 5,000 number? They produced 5,000 in the last week of June alone (and delivered almost all of them in July). Here's the most vetted source I know - this is delivered vehicles, not produced vehicles:
https://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/
Tesla only counts delivered cars in their finance reporting, not produced cars as far as I know. So they will often have more cars produced than delivered.
Quoted from o-din:16 hours later and since the so called experts on this vehicle obviously had more important things to discuss, I did a little research of my own. Now I'm not going to say "I'm guessing" and go thru that again, but all roads and many statements on many websites seem to point to this.
Didn't the very next post answer the gentleman's question?
AAA has chargers on their trucks in some markets:
https://electrek.co/2016/09/06/aaa-ev-emergency-charging-truck/
But if you live outside one of those areas and run completely out of power, you'll have to be towed. There's no reason why anyone sane would do that, given there are chargers everywhere, and the cars tell you if you can make it there AND BACK when you use the in-car navigation, and warn you if you try to navigate somewhere that will run you out of juice.
If you start to run low your Tesla will also tell you what speed you need to drive to reach a charger as well.
Also, if you are running low on power you can just slow down. A 270 mile range battery can be extended to 400 miles at 25 miles an hour. That's slow as hell, but it's faster than walking or a tow truck.
It's just not that big of a deal.
Model 3 sales are strong NOW......with the pre-orders.
What happens to sales once all of the pre-orders are fulfilled?
Also, how many of those pre-orders were banking on getting a Model 3 for $27,500? And what happens when they find out they won't be able to get it for that?
Quoted from Brijam:Where did you get the July 5,000 number? They produced 5,000 in the last week of June alone (and delivered almost all of them in July). Here's the most vetted source I know - this is delivered vehicles, not produced vehicles:
https://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/
Tesla only counts delivered cars in their finance reporting, not produced cars as far as I know. So they will often have more cars produced than delivered.
My mistake, I was thinking the last week June numbers, which were 5,000.
Quoted from AAAV8R:Model 3 sales are strong NOW......with the pre-orders.
What happens to sales once all of the pre-orders are fulfilled?
Also, how many of those pre-orders were banking on getting a Model 3 for $27,500? And what happens when they find out they won't be able to get it for that?
Nobody knows what will happen in the future.
However, as of July, which is the most recently I have seen anyone ask, all of their cars were getting large numbers of net orders. 5,000 net new orders in one week for the Model 3 alone:
http://fortune.com/2018/07/20/elon-musk-tesla-3-orders/
As to the tax credits, it's highly unlikely anyone with a pre-order is //still// somehow unaware that they will have to wait until 2019 for their 35k Model 3, and that come 2019 the tax credits will begin to slowly wind down. That's really old news. It seems rather likely those cancellations are already reflected in the 400,000+ orders they've recently stated they have for the Model 3.
Quoted from Brijam:Didn't the very next post answer the gentleman's question?
No. I'm not seeing it unless you are talking about some embedded video that I didn't watch. He asked a simple question, and that deserved a simple answer.
Not many are going to watch any propaganda or other vids in this thread posted by those that have done their best to ruin the spirit of this thread and dance thru it like it's their own personal playground.
Quoted from o-din:No. I'm not seeing it unless you are talking about some embedded video that I didn't watch. He asked a simple question, and that deserved a simple answer.
Not many are going to watch any propaganda or other vids in this thread posted by those that have done their best to ruin the spirit of this thread and dance thru it like it's their own personal playground.
Often times there are no simple answers. Try to give me the simple answer for how to clean a playfield. Or rebuild a pop bumper.
Instead, I gave a thorough answer correct to the best of my knowledge in the spirit of this forum.
Still you persist in more personal attacks and and willful ignorance.
Quoted from Brijam:Still you persist in more personal attacks and and willful ignorance.
You can't even see that you are the one that has been personally attacking me can you?
Sorry, I thought you were talking in total sales, not a single model. I was going to say, they aren’t even in the same galaxy compared to the top 5 manufacturers.
Just combing through the article you posted, are those actual numbers? The very nice looking, clearly correct chart shows the normal popular cars numbers, then with a photoshop arrow it says “model 3 will be here”. Hahaha I’m a fan of Tesla and musk, but I see why people think it’s a lot of hype sometimes, especially with things like that. Musk doesn’t help with his statements either, and trust me, I want Tesla to do well, especially since I’m vendor to Tesla, hyperloop, and boring.
Hey I cringe sometimes of some of the things that comes out of Musk's mouth. Especially his Twitter account. I'm just a Tesla fan wanting to see a young automotive company to succeed in a very very competitive industry. I realize not everybody loves Tesla or their cars. That's why there are so many makes and models available. I just like their mission and the tech in the cars. I think it's a breath of fresh air to the current auto industry. Other manufacturers have taken notice. Let's see where it goes in the next 10 years. Maybe it stays a niche market or maybe it grows exponentially because of other manufacturers coming on board. Who knows only time will tell.
Quoted from Brijam:Hello there, 'stay on topic policeman.' I admit to the error of my ways and hereby confess to derailing the topic on multiple occasions.
Top o' the morning, 'Captain Supercilious.'
Quoted from o-din:You can't even see that you are the one that has been personally attacking me can you?
You're being trolled, brother. He's got some legitimate points about the car yet he can't help but make it personal. On the up side, he's clearly winning the internet. So he's got that going for him, which is nice.
Quoted from fosaisu:Top o' the morning, 'Captain Supercilious.'
Someday people will understand my sense of humor. Until then, I prefer Admiral Arrogant.
Quoted from Procrastinator:Just combing through the article you posted, are those actual numbers?
Yes, as I understand it those are actual numbers. They’re already outproducing Jaguar and Porsche on volume.
I also agree that Musk should have a twelve hour hold on all his tweets and some oversight there. But then again, probably I should too. 
Quoted from Brijam:Someday people will understand my sense of humor.
"Moderated", and let someone else tell the jokes.
Quoted from Brijam:the cars tell you if you can make it there AND BACK when you use the in-car navigation, and warn you if you try to navigate somewhere that will run you out of juice.
If you start to run low your Tesla will also tell you what speed you need to drive to reach a charger as well.
Also, if you are running low on power you can just slow down. A 270 mile range battery can be extended to 400 miles at 25 miles an hour. That's slow as hell, but it's faster than walking or a tow truck.
And this is exactly why I do not like EVs. My car is NEVER telling me what to do or how fast to go, because it will bring me there the way I want to drive.
Just wait until EVs really get sold a lot and you poor guys are in a line of 5 or 6 cars waiting for your "fast" charger, 30 minutes a piece.
Also the "green" aspect does not apply to a Tesla. Why in the hell would they make cars that go so fast from 0-60 ? That is just so much waisted energy. If they would be green, they would make it so that every Kwh gets you as far as possible, not as fast as possible. What Tesla makes is a fun and fast car that is hiding the fact that you will become the slave of it, calculating every long drive and putting in a connector every time you park it.
As far as the cars go, I like what Tesla makes. Very much even, but the disadvantages outweigh the advantages very much. Here in Europe we do not have that many chargers yet and even a charger every 150 miles in USA does seem far apart.
As if we don't have enough distracted drivers already with cell phones and texting.
Replacing a car's gauge cluster and physical controls in favor an over-complicated Ipad that takes your eyes completely off the road might be the dumbest idea I've ever seen. It reminds me of a woman I saw one time driving on the freeway while playing candy crush on her Ipad.
Dying in a lithium fire from a head-on collision is not cool, nor green.
Quoted from fosaisu:He's got some legitimate points about the car
How about some of the other owners $50,000+ buying experiences? 
"I have written to Tesla on at least two occasions and have not received a reply to either communications. I've had similar results in trying to communicate with their store. Calls are not returned. On one occasion when I did get a live person and asked to speak to a manager, I was told that they don't have managers."
"Tesla has a website that you can log your complaints and get a reply within 48 hours. I logged on several weeks ago and have not heard a word back."
"My Tesla S100 one month new - rear camera malfunctioning. Bought this toy for $125K, already had issues with Rear Camera blackout just I was in reverse mode and hit a pole while backing for charging. Pre-delivery issues with paint blemish on door and lower panel misaligned. Took it to Tesla Service Center at Dublin as per appointment for body shop. Tesla provide me a loaner but will not give me estimated time I will get my brand new car back. I called them and was told that it may take one week to one month. WTF."
"When my Tesla was rear-ended in March, I had to buy another Model S from their in-stock inventory, and it was delivered in May. Immediately after delivery, I found 4 problems with the car. I took the car back to service 3 times in the past 2 months, and the 4 problems still exists"
"I don't know who to talk to about the fact that I purchased a new Model 3 Tesla and the day after I brought it home a light came on saying it needed servicing. I took it in and they said it needed windshield washer service and also it was showing miles on the odometer. It was at 0 when I picked it up. It has been two weeks now and my brand new car has been sitting out in the heat. They also disabled my phone app to the car. No word on when I'll get it. I really think I should just get a different new car. The new car smell has probably baked right out of it by now!"
"Again our X broke down. As solution a S is offered. What I am supposed to do? Leave our fourth child at home? Even after complaining we have to do it with the S. The S does not carry 6 persons! I am so done with Tesla, NEVER again."
My Tesla accelerated while parking and hit a handicap pole. Tesla would not release the black box which contains pertinent information to me nor to the insurance company. My Tesla is still at Amatos, its authorized body shop. This is going to be 4th months in the shop, still waiting for parts. My impression with Tesla is once the buyer takes possession of the car the company would not do anything to help!"
"we were having problems with the car from a strange rattling sound emanating from the vehicle and the sound of wind as we drove suggesting the doors weren’t properly screwed on. We obviously were disappointed that we were having problems from the get-go on a brand new very expensive car but it shouldn’t be a surprise given the reviews I’m now reading online and my friend’s own disastrous experience with the Model X (steering problems, inability to turn the vehicle on and gullwing door malfunction to name a few)."
"I placed a $1,000 deposit on a Tesla Model 3 in 2017. In February of 2018, I cancelled the deposit online. When I received nothing, I emailed Tesla and have traded emails for the last month. The agent is sympathetic, says it will take a while, but still no refund after a month."
Tip of the iceberg. Many more where this came from.
Quoted from IdahoRealtor:Dying in a lithium fire from a head-on collision is not cool, nor green.
Can you say "flamethrower"and "explode"?
https://abcnews.go.com/GMA/News/video/video-tesla-bursting-flames-raises-concerns-55970923
Quoted from o-din:You should stick to being a pushy car salesman, and let someone else tell the jokes.
Please stop the personal attacks.
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