(Topic ID: 223372)

Who Is Out On Tesla Model 3?


By o-din

1 year ago



Topic Stats

  • 509 posts
  • 72 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 months ago by DruTheFu
  • Topic is favorited by 4 Pinsiders

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    Topic poll

    “Why are you out and won't be buying a Tesla?”

    • The company and CEO are a joke, and the car line is a bigger joke 7 votes
      12%
    • Don't want to be stereotyped with some of the owners of this thing 2 votes
      3%
    • Stocks are on their way out 1 vote
      2%
    • I don't want to have to defend my car purchase on the internet 2 votes
      3%
    • Won't be living in Oregon or Canada anytime soon 1 vote
      2%
    • Big batteries make a big mess when they explode 2 votes
      3%
    • My old shitbox runs great and don't need a $50,000 car with no engine 10 votes
      17%
    • All of the above 35 votes
      58%

    (60 votes)

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    There are 509 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 11.
    #101 1 year ago
    Quoted from MrBally:

    In Michigan. Currently how many service centers are there? Can you say flatbed to Cleveland? Or, maybe this guy has a couple of floor jacks and can perform recalls in a customer's driveway/garage/local vacant Saturn dealer parking lot? This pic was taken aboot a mile away from your home.
    [quoted image]

    Tesla service van is a ford! Oh I love the irony!

    #102 1 year ago
    Quoted from Brijam:

    Ford has taken over 27 billion in government assistance:
    https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/ford-motor

    Quit quoting fuzzy math numbers, that data goes back to 1992 and includes tax rebates, incentives, and other promised monies. Unless you consider your tax refund govt assistance that is. Let’s not lump oranges in the apple cart here.

    #103 1 year ago
    Quoted from Phat_Jay:

    Quit quoting fuzzy math numbers, that data goes back to 1992 and includes tax rebates, incentives, and other promised monies. Unless you consider your tax refund govt assistance that is. Let’s not lump oranges in the apple cart here.

    But FORD has taken government money. They took TALF money, not TARP. TARP is referred to as "bailout" money. Semantics as far as I am concerned.

    Talk about fuzzy math...

    If you want to just go back to the latest recession, Ford's number is still at least $6b in government "help". That's not inconsequential. This was at the same time Ford was publicly marketing and touting themselves as not taking 'bailout" money while they privately helped lead the charge for the car manufacturers that did. It doesn't even bother me that they did. American car manufacturing is vital to American business and our economy, but let's not pretend Ford is exempt from criticism.

    #106 1 year ago

    I haven't bought a car in 27 years. So that makes me better than Odin.

    Stop dumping on Tesla owners trying to make yourselves feel better when you are all working for your cars, man! You are all suckers!

    I gotta admit I miss that car. It ruled. (1983 Crown Victoria)

    #107 1 year ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Stop dumping on Tesla owners

    It's a car and company this thread is about. Owners chose to buy whatever they like, and have the money to do so, so are probably not overly concerned what others that don't think. If they do, their problems may run deeper than those the car manufacturer is having.

    #108 1 year ago
    Quoted from Phat_Jay:

    Quit quoting fuzzy math numbers, that data goes back to 1992 and includes tax rebates, incentives, and other promised monies. Unless you consider your tax refund govt assistance that is. Let’s not lump oranges in the apple cart here.

    Yeah, because NOBODY throws Tesla under the bus because of tax credits given to purchasers of their cars, do they?

    Or are you saying that tax rebates aren't valuable to Ford?

    And what difference does it make how far back the data goes? It shows that Ford has regularly received government subsidies in the billions.

    Oh and feel free to post some other analysis of Ford's own public financial disclosures that shows Ford hasn't taken any government money. You won't find any.

    #109 1 year ago
    Quoted from Brijam:

    NOBODY throws Tesla under the bus because of tax credits given to purchasers of their cars, do they?

    Wow! You mean I could save money if I bought this $49,000 car?

    #110 1 year ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    Wow! You mean I could save money if I bought this $49,000 car?

    o-din, I'm so glad you asked.

    It depends on how much you drive and what you drive. Comparing any other $49,000 car to a Tesla Model 3 on fuel alone it would cost you less than half as much per mile to drive:
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2018/01/14/electric-vehicles-cost-less-than-half-as-much-to-drive/

    Of course if you've got solar panels, as any sane person should in your part of the world, your cost approaches zero.

    But I think the real value is in time saved. I don't ever have to waste time driving back and forth to a gas station (and there are none on my way to work, so I'd have to detour), or wait in line for an emissions/smog check at the DMV. All that time frees me up to answer questions like this on Pinside! Everyone wins!

    #111 1 year ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    It's a car and company this thread is about. Owners chose to buy whatever they like, and have the money to do so, so are probably not overly concerned what others that don't think. If they do, their problems may run deeper than those the car manufacturer is having.

    This clearly sizes up the situation. An illogical, emotional connection to a product, to the point of fallibility.

    #112 1 year ago
    Quoted from phil-lee:

    An illogical, emotional connection to a product, to the point of fallibility.

    You should see some of the videos on youtube. lol. I watched one anyway that was linked in the other thread.

    But again, this thread isn't about them. I don't see I have much in common with that dude.

    #113 1 year ago
    Quoted from phil-lee:

    This clearly sizes up the situation. An illogical, emotional connection to a product, to the point of fallibility.

    They are "greenwashed."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenwashing

    #114 1 year ago

    What I know is electricity is generated in a large part in nuclear and coal power plants , and not sure I see much green about those.

    What I do see as green is driving as little as possible and getting the most use out of an older vehicle before considering buying a new one of any kind.

    coal_pollution.0 (resized).jpg

    #115 1 year ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    What I know is electricity is generated in a large part in nuclear and coal power plants , and not sure I see much green about those.
    What I do see as green is driving as little as possible and getting the most use out of an older vehicle before considering buying a new one of any kind.
    [quoted image]

    Yes because older vehicles tend to have cleaner emissions, burn less fuel and never need maintenance.

    #116 1 year ago
    Quoted from MinusWorlds:

    Yes because older vehicles tend to have cleaner emissions, burn less fuel and never need maintenance.

    Yeah, Teslas just need $9k batteries from time to time. Sure the batteries will go down in price and the Teslas ten years from now will be a much better vehicle, making the 2018 model look like a dinosaur. So buy the $49K vehicle, it's a great investment.

    #117 1 year ago
    Quoted from Electrocute:

    Yeah, Teslas just need $9k batteries from time to time. Sure the batteries will go down in price and the Teslas ten years from now will be a much better vehicle, making the 2018 model look like a dinosaur. So buy the $49K vehicle, it's a great investment.

    Did I ever take a stance on Tesla one way or another? Oh that’s right, I didn’t. Obvi both types of vehicles have their pros and cons. But to make the argument that driving older vehicles is somehow greener is laughable.

    Oh. Btw, as I’ve said twice...Ford has taken government money. What, no comment from you on that?

    Interesting.

    #118 1 year ago

    One thing for sure, driving a well-maintained older car is a win for the environment over junking that car that still has good life in it and buying another new car made from tons of new raw materials. The gas mileage should not decrease much if a car is maintained and emissions tested.

    I take some pride in keeping my cars longer than most people and actually fixing them myself when I can. I also try to be sensible about what is worth fixing financially as well as what is worth paying someone to fix when it is burdensome or physically taxing to my bad back.
    I presently could sell both my and my wife's vehicles and still probably would not get enough cash from them to buy a Stern LE. It is a choice to stick with them that is just about being frugal and content.

    #119 1 year ago
    Quoted from DCFAN:

    One thing for sure, driving a well-maintained older car is a win for the environment over junking that car that still has good life in it and buying another new car made from tons of new raw materials. The gas mileage should not decrease much if a car is maintained and emissions tested.
    I take some pride in keeping my cars longer than most people and actually fixing them myself when I can. I also try to be sensible about what is worth fixing financially as well as what is worth paying someone to fix when it is burdensome or physically taxing to my bad back.

    Can you define an old car? Meaning, at what point are people junking cars? Because there is a used car market. A big one.

    IMO nobody “junks” cars with good life left in them. They trade them in or sell them. So not sure how that has any impact on the environment.

    #120 1 year ago
    Quoted from DCFAN:

    One thing for sure, driving a well-maintained older car is a win for the environment over junking that car that still has good life in it and buying another new car made from tons of new raw materials. The gas mileage should not decrease much if a car is maintained and emissions tested.
    I take some pride in keeping my cars longer than most people and actually fixing them myself when I can. I also try to be sensible about what is worth fixing financially as well as what is worth paying someone to fix when it is burdensome or physically taxing to my bad back.
    I presently could sell both my and my wife's vehicles and still probably would not get enough cash from them to buy a Stern LE. It is a choice to stick with them that is just about being frugal and content.

    My '04 A8L with 290,000 miles is still a nice car. Took it to Chicago a few weeks ago. Stopped by the old Williams building that is up for sale.
    For me, it's a great value.

    My son & I do all the repairs & maintenance on our cars.

    Just replaced an air strut on it $1900.00 list for the part. I did get a nice discount on the part, OEM too as I avoid aftermarket crap. Yes, we replaced it ourselves.

    No one thinks suspension components, HVAC, window regulators, door, hood and hatch latches, the computer hardware, wheel bearings, individual wheel motors, power regulating system, throttle, brake hydraulic components will require repairs on a Tesla, eh?

    Let me know in 10 years.

    20180728_164022 (resized).jpg20180728_164409 (resized).jpg

    #121 1 year ago
    Quoted from MinusWorlds:

    Yes because older vehicles tend to have cleaner emissions, burn less fuel and never need maintenance.

    Exactly. An already built vehicle does not need all new parts or need to be produced in a factory that will obviously spew some kind of emissions, not to mention the parts suppliers for those new vehicles and raw materials needed.

    #122 1 year ago
    Quoted from Electrocute:

    Teslas just need $9k batteries from time to time.

    How green are those batteries after they have expired?

    #123 1 year ago
    Quoted from MinusWorlds:

    Can you define an old car? Meaning, at what point are people junking cars? Because there is a used car market. A big one.
    IMO nobody “junks” cars with good life left in them. They trade them in or sell them. So not sure how that has any impact on the environment.

    Around 13 years and older and hardly anybody wants them anymore. The dealers say they want them but what they really want is for you to trade in for a new car so they can give you the lowest trade-in value for your perfectly good old car. The dealer then sells the car to an auction company. I will probably keep my wife's 2005 Rav4 until it is about 20 years old as an extra vehicle. Parents don't even seem to want older cars for their kids anymore which is totally different from the way it was when I grew up. People in the suburbs coddle their kids so much they get them a car that is practically new these days.

    #124 1 year ago
    Quoted from DCFAN:

    Around 13 years and older and hardly anybody wants them anymore. The dealers say they want them but what they really want is for you to trade in for a new car so they can give you the lowest trade-in value for your perfectly good old car. The dealer then sells the car to an auction company. I will probably keep my wife's 2005 Rav4 until it is about 20 years old as an extra vehicle. Parents don't even seem to want older cars for their kids anymore which is totally different from the way it was when I grew up. People in the suburbs coddle their kids so much they get them a car that is practically new these days.

    I live in the city. Discipline my kids. Drive a 10 year old car. I guess I’m cool!

    RAV4 is a great car.

    #125 1 year ago
    Quoted from MinusWorlds:

    I live in the city. Discipline my kids. Drive a 10 year old car. I guess I’m cool!
    RAV4 is a great car.

    That is very refreshing to hear that you don't need some shiny new box just to impress nobody but yourself. Because nobody else will really be impressed. Now we are getting somewhere!

    #126 1 year ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    That is very refreshing to hear that you don't need some shiny new box just to impress nobody but yourself. Because nobody else will really be impressed. Now we are getting somewhere!

    It’s a 10 year old Tesla Roadster...

    I kid

    #127 1 year ago

    My '01 Beetle (left) by a WMS employee's 2016 Beetle (right) aboot two years ago. This is a few hundred feet South of the main WMS building.
    You can see the former Hot Doug's, now Cafe Tola, on the left.

    20161013_140720 (resized).jpg

    #128 1 year ago
    Quoted from MinusWorlds:

    It’s a 10 year old Tesla Roadster...

    If that's what you want, there are a few with low miles on them. Most much less than they were new.

    Can't tell what happened to the high milage ones though. Don't see any for sale.

    https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/Tesla/Roadster

    #129 1 year ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    If that's what you want, there are a few with low miles on them. Most much less than they were new.
    Can't tell what happened to the high milage ones though. Don't see any for sale.
    https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/Tesla/Roadster

    Nah was never really a fan of that car.

    #130 1 year ago
    Quoted from MinusWorlds:

    Nah was never really a fan of that car.

    I saw one whizzing around the neighborhood about 8 years ago, and I must say I was impressed! But that was then...

    #131 1 year ago
    Quoted from Electrocute:

    Yeah, Teslas just need $9k batteries from time to time. Sure the batteries will go down in price and the Teslas ten years from now will be a much better vehicle, making the 2018 model look like a dinosaur. So buy the $49K vehicle, it's a great investment.

    My car is going on six years old and has 90% of the range it had as new. So it'll be a while before I have to put any new battery pack in mine, and it's one of the oldest on the road.

    No car is an investment, but Tesla depreciates less than any other luxury car and sells faster too:

    https://www.teslarati.com/survey-ranks-used-tesla-model-s-1-retained-value-fastest-selling-among-peers/
    “To put the depreciation in context, whereas a Tesla (Model S) will on average lose 28% of its value after being driven 50k miles, a Mercedes S-Class will lose 38%, a BMW 7-series will lose 40%, and an Audi A8 will lose 41%. As a result, Tesla owners end up with considerably more money in their pocket.”

    #132 1 year ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    What I know is electricity is generated in a large part in nuclear and coal power plants , and not sure I see much green about those.
    What I do see as green is driving as little as possible and getting the most use out of an older vehicle before considering buying a new one of any kind.
    [quoted image]

    It depends on where you live. Where I live more than half of our power comes from renewable sources, and 100% of mine does.

    It's much better for human health to have the pollution come from far away plants than from car exhaust.

    Lastly, very little of our power is nuclear, but more of it should be. Far better than coal.

    #133 1 year ago
    Quoted from DCFAN:

    One thing for sure, driving a well-maintained older car is a win for the environment over junking that car that still has good life in it and buying another new car made from tons of new raw materials.

    No, after around 70,000 miles it's better to have a new EV than to keep an old gas burner:
    https://cdn.blog.ucsusa.org/wp-content/uploads/life-cycle-ev-emissions.jpg

    life-cycle-ev-emissions (resized).jpg
    #134 1 year ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    How green are those batteries after they have expired?

    Very, very, very green.

    First, Tesla has a battery that's still got 80% charge at 500,000 miles, people:
    https://www.fleetcarma.com/todays-electric-car-batteries/

    But at some point they won't be good for cars. At that point you can sell them because they're still useful for things like powering homes and large scale battery systems:
    https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/energy/2012/11/121116-second-life-for-used-electric-car-batteries/
    https://thinkprogress.org/why-used-electric-car-batteries-could-be-crucial-to-a-clean-energy-future-6ab9a2308cdb/

    #135 1 year ago
    Quoted from Brijam:

    Tesla depreciates less than any other luxury car and sells faster too:

    I don't like luxury cars period, so in that department they are all the same to me. Overpriced shitboxes destined to lose a large amount of their initial cost shortly after you drive them off the lot. And more parts and equipment than you need to get from point A to point B.

    But hats off to Tesla for taking the lead in that department

    #136 1 year ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    I saw one whizzing around the neighborhood about 8 years ago, and I must say I was impressed! But that was then...

    I drove a Tesla Roadster for about two weeks. It was very impractical. The trunk is about the size of a lunch box, no kidding. It takes a gymnastic move to get in and out of it. The buttons and menus were a nightmare to figure out. It felt fragile compared to my rock solid Model S. The interior was cramped, and the sight lines weren't good.

    On the good side, it was a free loaner from Tesla, so that kicked ass. It wasn't faster than my Model S, but it was more nimble. The design is nice. It was cool to drive a hand built car, a piece of history. And it had pretty good range.

    #137 1 year ago
    Quoted from Brijam:

    No, after around 70,000 miles it's better to have a new EV than to keep an old gas burner:
    https://cdn.blog.ucsusa.org/wp-content/uploads/life-cycle-ev-emissions.jpg[quoted image]

    Sure an ev is better for the environment than any gas vehicle, but they are still not readily available and the prices are too high and the selection of models is limited for now. My next vehicle will most likely be a luxury SUV in a few years. My wife will likely get another Rav4 in a year or two but this time with all the upgrades. I am not really sold on hybrids but will think on that and do more research before buying. In another 15 to 20 years I can see myself getting an ev with a range of 500+ miles if I live that long. Time will tell which company from which that ev comes. I want and hope Tesla is one of the choices to pick from when that time comes.

    Another reason an ev does not work for me presently is the lack of charging access at multi-family locations which affects my possible future full time or snowbird retirement housing possibilities.

    #138 1 year ago
    Quoted from MrBally:

    No one thinks suspension components, HVAC, window regulators, door, hood and hatch latches, the computer hardware, wheel bearings, individual wheel motors, power regulating system, throttle, brake hydraulic components will require repairs on a Tesla, eh?
    Let me know in 10 years.

    I've never seen anyone make that claim. But the truth is that EVs have vastly fewer moving parts.

    Are you trying to say that maintenance costs will be the same on an EV over it's lifecycle than an ICE car?

    #139 1 year ago

    WhoSLA? Come on, EVs are so yesterday. All the cool kids are over here now.

    #140 1 year ago
    Quoted from Brijam:

    No, after around 70,000 miles it's better to have a new EV than to keep an old gas burner:
    https://cdn.blog.ucsusa.org/wp-content/uploads/life-cycle-ev-emissions.jpg[quoted image]

    You lost me at Global Warming

    #142 1 year ago

    Wow, that article really is for dummies. No mention of water vapour at all. Love the shameless confirmation bias. Of the dummy, by the dummy, for the dummy.

    #143 1 year ago

    As a mechanic I could never buy anything that I couldn't order parts for! Tesla is so arrogant they've adopted the Apple philosophy with their customers, like their tec is so exclusive nobody can service them or order parts for them other than Tesla? Are you f'n kidding me, you pay for an item you are not allowed to work on...H-A!

    d7118037f70b2a1cb97ca69afaa4164f (resized).jpg
    #144 1 year ago
    Quoted from gmkalos:

    Are you f'n kidding me, you pay for an item you are not allowed to work on...H-A!

    Forget about cars for a second.

    Have you ever read an end user licensing agreement for consumer devices? There are lots of products that the manufacturer doesn’t want the general public to repair. If you or I agree with it is t the point. But I would be willing to bet you have many products in your home that your not supposed to try and fix.

    #145 1 year ago
    Quoted from Luckydogg420:

    Forget about cars for a second.
    Have you ever read an end user licensing agreement for consumer devices? There are lots of products that the manufacturer doesn’t want the general public to repair. If you or I agree with it is t the point. But I would be willing to bet you have many products in your home that your not supposed to try and fix.

    Yea but none of them cost nearly as much dude, there's no comparison. A man should be able to fix his house, car & marriage whenever he wants! lol

    And I got the L3 cert from ASE in 2007 for working on the Mercury Mariner Hybrid, it's just insulting. 10 years ago those batteries were much more lethal. Aside from the batteries there actually much more simplistic mechanically to a combustion engine, electrically I'm sure the harness is more elaborate but you can't re-invent the wheel. lol

    5d192e3fd2049c7988b5d5ce1da8cca2 (resized).jpg
    #146 1 year ago
    Quoted from Brijam:

    I've never seen anyone make that claim. But the truth is that EVs have vastly fewer moving parts.
    Are you trying to say that maintenance costs will be the same on an EV over it's lifecycle than an ICE car?

    In a harsh environment such as Michigan or Pennsylvania, yes, over fifteen years or 300,000 miles they will be close. Then the disadvantage of lower range in extreme weather will become a factor for some motorists.

    #148 1 year ago

    I see oil changes are free though.....

    20114960_0_600_450 (resized).jpg
    #149 1 year ago
    Quoted from MrBally:

    I see oil changes are free though.....

    They get the grease job at the dealer.

    #150 1 year ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    They get the grease job at the dealer.

    Except they have no dealers.

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