Greensboro, NC
Quoted from okayestpinballer:You could easily replace Musk with Trump in that quote.
Maybe Musk will drop out of Tesla and run for President in 2020?
'Clean Coal' vs Renewable Energy
(Topic ID: 223372)
Vancouver, BC
Well how about that. The so called Tesla killer is also in production Hell.
https://insideevs.com/jaguar-i-pace-sales-hit-140-in-august/
1 week later
Quoted from DCFAN:I can understand testing when hired along with a physical, but how many do ongoing testing throughout employment?
Quoted from goatdan:Maybe 30 years ago, but I really doubt it now. Many states are legalizing, and there are interesting legal issues that haven't yet been crossed in states where it is legal but doesn't impair your work. How you can dictate what someone does off work hours is difficult, and marijuana, due to it's nature, is tougher to figure out.
You don't want someone who is high on pot doing something dangerous with a bunch of people around. But, you also don't want that person drunk. If they are legally doing it on their own time safely, and are being safe at work, how can you really say the person who was blacked out drunk is far better than the person who was stoned?
I worked for a publicly traded company in HR at the time California made it legal, one with a drug policy in place. There was a ton of talk back and forth about how to handle it, and it basically came down to we wouldn't terminate anyone (in California) for showing marijuana on their drug test unless they exhibited signs of also being impaired while on duty. It came down to we didn't want to be the ones going to court to explain why we should be able to dictate what someone can legally do in their spare time. It remained a fireable offense in other markets because it was illegal.
Long story short, it's in a legally weird spot in so many ways right now (including that it's illegal federally and they want to enforce that while states are legalizing it...), but don't think that publicly traded companies are going to be fighting to terminate employees for what they legally do on their own time.
As for Tesla, they just announced a bunch of new executive promotions tonight. I said before Musk needs a strong second, and they seem to have just put Jerome Guillen into what appears to be that spot, which I think could be a genius move. Jerome came to Tesla 8 years ago from Daimler where he both led the Cascadia program and then created a car sharing program in Europe. At Tesla, he kind of has done it all - leading the Model S team from prototype to production and ramp, the Tesla Semi team, making an assembly line, running sales and service, and dealing with Musk for 8 years.
In many ways, he is quite similar to Shotwell at SpaceX, and I think could have the power and autonomy to do his own thing.
Here is a recent news story regarding the situation in Michigan.
Look, it not like once recreational in a state becomes legal, people that have never consumed, just don't all go out at once and start consuming. A vast majority will just buy at a dispensary instead of their hookup depending on quality, pricing and taxation.
All you have to do to pass a MJ pee test is to drink the juice. You have this in your car and can easily pass on a moments notice.
I've personally known maybe a dozen people who have been on probation, pee test multiple times a week for MJ, and smoked MJ everyday.
Now there are some jobs where you can be spot tested and if your job means anything to you, you won't consume. Or if you are a professional driver, not in a union, and get into an accident. I would say a huge majority of HR departs couldn't care less about what you do on your free time as long as it doesn't continue into your job.
Seems like michigan is a state that has been dragging their feet on getting medical MJ to the patients that need it and are using fear, uncertainty and doubt as the recreational vote is around the corner.
Quoted from TVP:All you have to do to pass a MJ pee test is to drink the juice.
What does this juice contain?
Quoted from phil-lee:What does this juice contain?
Yeah, interested in this also....THC is stored in fat cells, and people have tried to pass drug tests with all manner of Juices...from drinking cranberry to straight vinegar....none of that crap works. There's only one company that I know of that's reputable that sells a cleanse, and even they say it takes many days. Speaking as an addict's father (opiates, not MJ), not a user, so if there's something that's cheating the system, would like to know.
2 weeks later
1 month later
Quoted from goatdan:You said you wouldn't want the janitor smoking. That would be your rule. The actual rules, as I mentioned from being on the HR side, are much muddier with something that is now legal.
Now that Michigan passed the marijuana proposal, it won't protect you from getting fired or not hired for a job.
Quoted from MrBally:Now that Michigan passed the marijuana proposal, it won't protect you from getting fired or not hired for a job.
https://www.freep.com/story/news/marijuana/2018/11/07/michigan-marijuana-results-election-legalization/1835297002/
Oh gosh, I am kind of stunned you're still on the marijuana thing.
You may get fired for smoking marijuana, either on your free time or not, depending on your company policy. Having stated that, like I was saying to begin with, as attitudes of marijuana are changing from the "OH NOES REEFER MADNEZZ!" hysteria of the past to the attitude today of why not, that changes things. You said before...
Quoted from MrBally:You should ask the HR or Legal department of any major corporation why they drug test and exclude users from employment.
I know this may seem hard for you to understand since it wasn't your experience, but I worked at a major, publicly traded corporation (worth billions then and today) in their HR department. As I explained, in locations where it was legal, we realized that it was legally dubious to terminate someone for something that they were doing legally on their own time, and we therefore decided to treat marijuana the exact same as we would treat alcohol - if you came in to work and were impaired, you were terminated. If you did it responsibly, on your own time, you would not be.
Some companies have opted not do this. It's up to your company, and what you feel is right. That will continue to evolve as the nation becomes more accepting of it.
Without writing a huge thing about it in the hating on Tesla thread, in short one of the largest difficulties is figuring out a way to determine how high is "too" high and then do some sort of instant test for that. With alcohol, it shows up in both breath and blood and gives some pretty easy ways for both enforcement and users to sort of determine where they sit. Marijuana is missing that, which makes it much trickier for people to both feel like they are consuming in moderation and to know when they are safe to drive or operate machinery or whatever. That will be something that evolves, but again - if you're toking up tomorrow night, and then not again and go into work Monday morning, you're going to be fine. Unless we can all get self driving cars, and then this stuff won't matter.
Oh yeah, and...
Quoted from calprog:Looks like Tesla is going down soon. Maybe another year. Unfortunate for sure.
They had quite the solid earnings report this past quarter. Seems they have enough cash on hand right now to pay all their loans coming due for at least a year.
Quoted from goatdan:we realized that it was legally dubious to terminate someone for something that they were doing legally on their own time, and we therefore decided to treat marijuana the exact same as we would treat alcohol -
This topic in Canada has been a real debate point also. Some Companies HR departments are considering to allow employees to consume cannabis on their lunch break, or even during “working lunch meetings”. For eg. A group of employees go out for lunch and have a beer with their food. If they are not impaired when they return then it’s no problem. If the company allows their employees to consume one kind on intoxicant on their lunch, then other legal intoxicants should be accepted too. As long as your not returning to work impaired then it shouldn’t be a problem.
Quoted from Luckydogg420:This topic in Canada has been a real debate point also. Some Companies HR departments are considering to allow employees to consume cannabis on their lunch break, or even during “working lunch meetings”. For eg. A group of employees go out for lunch and have a beer with their food. If they are not impaired when they return then it’s no problem. If the company allows their employees to consume one kind on intoxicant on their lunch, then other legal intoxicants should be accepted too. As long as your not returning to work impaired then it shouldn’t be a problem.
Exactly!
The only major question slowing further rules like this I think is just the whole "how much is too much" test doesn't really exist for it that I know of. At least, when we were talking about it, that was sort of our sticking point, and why we said that if they appear impaired, we will treat it the same as someone showing up drunk to work - instant termination. But, if they are not impaired, and can fill their duty as our employee, why should I tell them what they can or can't do?
I'm all about personal freedom. I don't choose to do any drugs myself, with the exception of minor amounts of alcohol, but that's my choice. I don't want the government telling me what I can or can't do, which also means I don't want them telling you what you can or can't do. I feel like we have enough information in this day and age that we can make choices for ourselves.
3 months later
He's also closing all the 250 showrooms and lowering prices. And admitted profits aren't there.
Sounds like sales are booming???? Rumors cancellation refunds on Model 3 take a while to get.
And almost every manufacturer is entering this price segment with SUV's instead of 4 doors.
Quoted from AAAV8R:Well, the $35,000 model is out.
Does this change anyone’s mind?
Reinforces in my mind that Tesla is in serious trouble, and underestimated the benefit of exclusivity. Introducing even more Model 3's, especially the cheap ones at little to no profit, is a big mistake. The financial markets aren't liking it either: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/01/analysts-react-to-teslas-model-3-announcement.html
Don't you know by now that CNBC is Fake News.
They have 400000 reservations waiting for the affordable model 3. The analcysts on CNBC are clueless. Now the model Y is being launched . That is even a larger market. Just wait and see.
Quoted from robertmee:The financial markets aren't liking it either:
The financial markets have never liked Tesla. But the good news is that a lot of people don’t follow the financial markets.
Quoted from Nilroc:The "analcysts" on CNBC are clueless.
We don't agree, and you go so far as to downvote my posts, but I had to laugh at your terminology. I'll have to use that myself 
Quoted from robertmee:We don't agree, and you go so far as to downvote my posts
I thought if you don’t agree with a post you down vote it. The two are connected not mutually exclusive, if I agree with your post I would never down vote it.
Quoted from Luckydogg420:I thought if you don’t agree with a post you down vote it. The two are connected not mutually exclusive, if I agree with your post I would never down vote it.
If everyone upvoted or downvoted every post they agreed or disagreed with, the voting system would be worthless. I think I may have downvoted less than 6 posts in all my years here. Some people use the downposts as a vendetta...voting down just because of the poster, not the content.
Quoted from robertmee:If everyone upvoted or downvoted every post they agreed or disagreed with, the voting system would be worthless. I think I may have downvoted less than 6 posts in all my years here. Some people use the downposts as a vendetta...voting down just because of the poster, not the content.
We use the up/down vote system very differently.
If you’ve used less then 6 downvotes in years, then how many up votes have you been using? Are they just as rare, only to be used for the most rightest of rights?
Quoted from Luckydogg420:We use the up/down vote system very differently.
If you’ve used less then 6 downvotes in years, then how many up votes have you been using? Are they just as rare, only to be used for the most rightest of rights?
No, admittedly I use upvotes more liberally. I am old school and of the teaching, if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. So I reward good posts as everyone likes positive reinforcement. I reserve negative reinforcement for those posts that I find really objectionable.
Not saying I'm right and you are wrong. Just a difference of opinion
Quoted from Luckydogg420:The financial markets have never liked Tesla.
Really? A company that has raised billions in the capital market, produces 10% of the volume of car makers like Chevy but is valued way more in market cap, oh and has made what two quarters of tiny profit over 10+ years of business? Financial markets have been outrageously kind to Tesla.
Tesla stock is still trading above $300 a share despite outrageous CEO behavior; despite highly questionable financial moves (solarcity was a terrible terrible decision); despite lots of key personnel leaving (3 years they’ve had two CFOs leave, on top of HR/legal/engineering/manufacturing people leave). That Tesla still has access to money and is trading so high is contrary to financial markets not liking Tesla.
Quoted from Richthofen:Tesla stock is still trading above $300 a share
Check again.
Quoted from AAAV8R:Check again.
for those too lazy to check, tesla stock is currently at $273.51.....
Quoted from robertmee:if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.
You are definitely in the wrong thread!!!
Quoted from crwjumper:You are definitely in the wrong thread!!!
Nah...we can disagree, even vehemently, but still not be demeaning, spiteful or hateful. At the end of the day, we're all still pinball nuts.
Quoted from robertmee:Reinforces in my mind that Tesla is in serious trouble, and underestimated the benefit of exclusivity. Introducing even more Model 3's, especially the cheap ones at little to no profit, is a big mistake. The financial markets aren't liking it either: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/01/analysts-react-to-teslas-model-3-announcement.html
Just explain to me because Tesla introduces a cheaper more affordable model 3 why this means they are in serious trouble.
They have lions share of all electric vehicles sold in the USA. They are currently moving into both the European and China markets.
I’d say that’s a huge achievement for a young automotive manufacter. The future looks great! The model Y SUV launches this month.
Really don’t Understand why people in the USA want this company to fail. Not everyone works in the gas industry. One of our gasoline companies has started a cross Canada install of Chargers at all their gas stations. Now that’s forward thinking.
Quoted from Nilroc:Just explain to me because Tesla introduces a cheaper more affordable model 3 why this means they are in serious trouble.
They have lions share of all electric vehicles sold in the USA. They are currently moving into both the European and China markets.
I’d say that’s a huge achievement for a young automotive manufacter. The future looks great! The model Y SUV launches this month.
Really don’t Understand why people in the USA want this company to fail. Not everyone works in the gas industry. One of our gasoline companies has started a cross Canada install of Chargers at all their gas stations. Now that’s forward thinking.
Because even by Musk's own mouth, the 35K model isn't profitable right now...it's why he's slashing sales force, cutting other jobs, closing dealerships. So, cheaper, more affordable is great for the consumer, but is it great and sustainable for Tesla? I have my doubts. Would you rather sell 10 widgets at $10,000 margin, or 1000 widgets at $100 margin? From warranty service, etc., you want lower sales at higher margins. Maybe in 3 to 5 years when the warranty runs out, higher numbers of cheaper vehicles will lead to better service numbers. But Tesla's service department is a big issue right now. Just seems that Musk is leading the cart before the horse. He should have nailed down sales and service before trying to sell more at cheaper margins. I was a big fan of Tesla during the Model S and X years. I have no desire to see Tesla fail. But I believe the Model 3 could break the bank at the expense of some really better models.
1 week later
Quoted from AAAV8R:Well the Model Y is completely underwhelming. Looks exactly like the Model 3, with $12,000 added to the sticker price.
What were you expecting for a small crossover suv? There’s other manufacturers that do the same thing. Look at bmw, the x3, x5, x6 all look like the same car in a different size.
Quoted from AAAV8R:Well the Model Y is completely underwhelming. Looks exactly like the Model 3, with $12,000 added to the sticker price.
Looks like a model 3 with a baby belly. Still concerned about Tesla's direction.
Quoted from Luckydogg420:What were you expecting for a small crossover suv?
Something that looked different than the Model 3. The way Elon originally hyped the project up, I don't think that expectation is out of line. I have looked through about a dozen reviews this morning, and all of them express varying levels of disappointment.
Quoted from robertmee:Looks like a model 3 with a baby belly. Still concerned about Tesla's direction.
Like building a plant in one of the largest markets in the world (Shanghai) . Producing both the Model 3 and Model Y at a much lesser cost.
Quoted from Nilroc:Like building a plant in one of the largest markets in the world (Shanghai) . Producing both the Model 3 and Model Y at a much lesser cost.
Time will tell on that one...construction is already behind and the recent SEC filing indicates regulatory issues with China. Meanwhile, the Chinese company NIO is ramping up to compete. Who do you think when push comes to shove, is the Chinese government going to support? A US company or a Chinese company?
Tesla claimed last quarter to have a margin of nearly 25% on their auto sales. Admittedly, this was a higher mix of higher cost cars, but that is still pretty amazing.
In the meantime, they also built out 12,000+ high speed refueling stations in SuperChargers. Anyone who dismisses the company as valueless or bankrupt I think forgets just how valuable those chargers are. No other automaker has anything other than a hope and dream someone else will make one.
The material risk, in my opinion, to Tesla is that they keep building out the SuperCharger network like crazy, and burning their capital on that which isn't a huge money maker for the company. They need to stay so far ahead of other manufacturers to keep the margin to provide for that network.
If it wasn't for that part of their business, I think they'd be fine - assuming demand stayed the same. But it's a chicken and egg thing, and they're making both at the same time.
I expect the Y will have ridiculous margins. It uses so many identical parts to the 3, and the largest cost component of the drive train will be identical to the 3. I also think we aren't going to see any issues ramping it up, and they might surprise people and start shipping them early.
That may not make up for other things, but I don't think they are doing too bad at keeping all the plates they can spinning.
Quoted from goatdan:Tesla claimed last quarter to have a margin of nearly 25% on their auto sales. Admittedly, this was a higher mix of higher cost cars, but that is still pretty amazing.
In the meantime, they also built out 12,000+ high speed refueling stations in SuperChargers. Anyone who dismisses the company as valueless or bankrupt I think forgets just how valuable those chargers are. No other automaker has anything other than a hope and dream someone else will make one.
The material risk, in my opinion, to Tesla is that they keep building out the SuperCharger network like crazy, and burning their capital on that which isn't a huge money maker for the company. They need to stay so far ahead of other manufacturers to keep the margin to provide for that network.
If it wasn't for that part of their business, I think they'd be fine - assuming demand stayed the same. But it's a chicken and egg thing, and they're making both at the same time.
I expect the Y will have ridiculous margins. It uses so many identical parts to the 3, and the largest cost component of the drive train will be identical to the 3. I also think we aren't going to see any issues ramping it up, and they might surprise people and start shipping them early.
That may not make up for other things, but I don't think they are doing too bad at keeping all the plates they can spinning.
They claimed a 25% margin and are expecting a 1st quarter loss? Isn't that concerning?
Quoted from robertmee:They claimed a 25% margin and are expecting a 1st quarter loss? Isn't that concerning?
If they are just an auto maker, heck yeah. Even a worse product mix shouldn't result in a loss.
If they are an auto maker that is also making a fast charging network, solar systems, grid based battery backup, and more... Nope.
The fact that they feel they should roll out a SuperCharger network so quickly is both their biggest asset and biggest risk, and yet so many people don't see it as a positive. From my perspective as a Tesla owner, it's mind blowing how awesome the network is, and I can (and already have) make a trip anywhere with no worries about making it or charging, and with little time needed to do so.
I also know that between the price they have to be paying for electricity and the usage rates of the chargers, the purchase price of my car is paying for those stations way more than the amount I pay them for the electricity.
2 months later
1 week later
Quoted from robertmee:Time will tell on that one...construction is already behind and the recent SEC filing indicates regulatory issues with China. Meanwhile, the Chinese company NIO is ramping up to compete. Who do you think when push comes to shove, is the Chinese government going to support? A US company or a Chinese company?
The Shanghai Plant is ahead of schedule. See for yourself. Simply amazing:
Nio's really ramping up? Postpones until 2020
https://www.bizjournals.com/sanjose/news/2019/05/28/nio-et-7-sedan-postponed-tsla.html
Quoted from Nilroc:The Shanghai Plant is ahead of schedule. See for yourself. Simply amazing:
Nio's really ramping up? Postpones until 2020
https://www.bizjournals.com/sanjose/news/2019/05/28/nio-et-7-sedan-postponed-tsla.html
Did you even read the article you posted? That's a model they just showcased a few weeks ago...not whats already in production.
As for Tesla factory, I see a building shell. What's so amazing?
Stick your head in the sand like all the other Wall Street Analcysts. The EV evolution is happening and Tesla is in the forefront.
https://www.torquenews.com/video/how-model-3-helps-tesla-take-sales-lead-chevy-volt
Quoted from Nilroc:Stick your head in the sand like all the other Wall Street Analcysts. The EV evolution is happening and Tesla is in the forefront.
https://www.torquenews.com/video/how-model-3-helps-tesla-take-sales-lead-chevy-volt
Ev evolution? Surely you jest. https://phys.org/news/2019-03-electric-vehicles-failure.html
Keep driving smugly in your EV while the children mining your cobalt sucking batteries suffer.
Reply
Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.
Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!
Donate to PinsideGreat to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!
