Quoted from AAAV8R:

I don’t think you are realizing what is going on here.
I’m sure you are aware that Elon had been under extreme pressure to hit the production targets that he has forecast in the last several conference calls and earnings reports. Now, normally, setbacks wouldn’t be such a big deal if there were light at the end of the tunnel. But we are looking at a company that has been burning through roughly $16 million a day, and is running out of - if not RAN out of - options to raise additional capital.
Elon promised a state of the art, fully automated facility that was so advanced, the average person could not even fathom the levels of complexity and advancement. We all know of the myriad of unforeseen problems that the line ran into. Furthermore, attempts at stationing workers on the line were mostly a failure since the idle robotic equipment did not allow the space needed. So the primary line is functioning, but barely, albeit at a trickle.
The news I was waiting to see was how long it would take to get the primary line functioning as it was originally intended. I assumed that this was something line software issues etc. Elon’s earnings calls early this year even made it sound like this was another glitch that would be overcome shortly, and the line would be cranking out cars. But a mere couple of months later, Elon made a stunning announcement that they had ripped the entire parts conveyance system out of the factory. As of today, there has been no announcement as to a Plan B to re-tool the facility.
So Elon announced this “second assembly line” as a means to not only to hit the production targets, but more importantly, stop the (cash flow) bleeding. So this second assembly line has been under a microscope by virtually every institutional investment firm to car enthusiasts.
The line only got its permit a couple of weeks ago. Right away, all of the aforementioned parties were asking questions on how many cars the line was producing, and what the production targets were. Not only were no numbers offered, but the company refused to even confirm whether or not the line was operational. To make sure nobody saw what was going on at the tent, Elon had semi trailers ring part of the facility to block the view. Looking at the video where the drone rises above the trailers, the answer is pretty clear - virtually nothing.
There are also some other very alarming takeaways from the video. The line is clearly not completed. Components and parts kits are scattered around the outside of the facility. No cars are rolling off. There are no robots - assembly is all manual. Observers (like the drone operator) that have been watching the tent facility have reported that the frames are being forklifted from way over at the paint facility, and manually loaded onto the conveyor belt.
Obviously, these reports and observations have been getting back to investors and analysts that everything was not on the up and up with this new facility. So they started asking questions. Just days ago Elon told everyone that the new assembly line was not only functioning (not true) and that the quality of the cars coming off the line had “slightly higher quality” than the primary line.
Here is a brief summary of what I see:
The company is still hemorrhaging money, and is running out of options for raising additional capital. Getting Model 3 production up to target levels was critical to mitigating cash flow losses. The second assembly line is clearly not functional, and Elon is obviously lying about it. Furthermore, even IF the second assembly line becomes operational, it will be crawling along using manual assembly.
Tesla is in big, big trouble.

Quoted from pezpunk:

Well, all I know is they are making around 5,000 cars per week now, and have an enormous backlog of orders they’re rapidly fulfilling. All with an advertising budget of $0. But sure. They’re in deep trouble. Hahaha.
By the way, it’s by far the best car I’ve ever driven, and it’s not a close competition. Blows away every car I’ve owned, which include Buicks, Lincolns, Olds, 3 Cadillacs, a couple Chryslers, and a Challenger SRT (I tend to buy American, sue me).
2 years in, this Tesla has been in the shop for zero days, spent zero minutes at gas stations, and I’ve spent negligible dollars on fuel. Of course it’s at another level performance-wise, but it’s also been the most pleasant long family trip car my family has ever owned as well. Done multiple 8+ hour drives, and it’s great. Super easy to drive. Insane safety and convenience features. Fits all the gear me, my wife, and two kids need for 2 week vacations, with plenty of room leftover.
Also no oil changes, no radiator flushes, no brake pad replacing, no transmission issues (it’s a one-speed limited at 155mph), no spark plugs, no PCV valve, no vacuum system. Just a battery and a couple of motors. Mechanically, it’s simple. Warranty is 8 years, unlimited miles though, if either of those parts do fail.
And you can blow the doors off a Lamborghini at a stoplight when that super-important need arises, as well.
The Model S is supercar acceleration with the fuel cost of a bicycle and storage capacity of a station wagon. I couldn’t be happier.

Quoted from pezpunk:

Paying attention. You’ll know it too, in a few days.

Quoted from Darscot:

More random people say random things, with no evidence of any kind. Any employee stupid enough to say something like this publicly clearly is not actually privy to the information. I have insider information at the company I work for and when you have it they sit you down and explain to you, leaking this type of information will get you fired. It can also land you in prison for insider trading and other financial crimes. So I put zero faith in anything said to the media from an "employee".
I have no knowledge if they are actually making the 5K number or not. I do know so long as production continues to rise it's not really a big deal if they miss it. Tesla will not just self implode and file bankruptcy if they are only making in the 4K range. Anyone that knows anything about the company is fully aware that the miss all the time.

Quoted from Darscot:

P.S. This thread is literally titled "Who is in on the Tesla model 3?" yet all it is, is every negative internet story posted so people can troll Tesla. One negative poster actually complained that this thread is like a fan club. It is a fan club, no pin owners thread is trolled like this.

Quoted from Nilroc:

Good move! Should hit $500.00 shortly.

Quoted from andrewket:

Oil is destroying our country and our planet. For the moment, EVs are our best plan forward. I believe it's very appropriate that we've used tax dollars to accelerate innovation and foster adoption of EVs. I don't understand why we continue to provide incentives and tax rebates to the oil industry. I suspect when EVs go over 50% marketshare that those subsidies will finally be killed.

Quoted from Nilroc:

Just wait for July's sales numbers! Bye Bye Bears!

Quoted from Brijam:

It’s a combination of things. This has been covered at least twice before in this thread (sigh).
1) Many people are still waiting on the 35k version. This does not mean there is not demand for the premium version. Many people mistakenly conflate these two things.
2) Tesla’s reservation system isn’t like waiting in line for the bank. If you want a more expensive version, you jump ahead of everyone else in the line who wants a less expensive version. It’s always been that way. I got my P85 months before people who put a reservation in for a less expensive 60.
3) Model 3 is currently outselling everything remotely similar including the gas-powered BMW 3 series in the USA. That is not an indication of reduced demand. Model S also continues to out-sell all other cars in the same price range. I don’t know the figures for the Model X vs. competition, only that they sell almost exactly as many Model X as Model S.
This is not a reduction in demand.

Quoted from Darscot:

Basically every car gets smoked by a Tesla, the only thing that stands a chance is very limited production super cars. Everything else is left in the dust.

Quoted from pezpunk:

mine does 0-60 in about 2.4 seconds. you can do as many drag passes as you want, it's unlikely to ever go into limp mode at a drag strip unless you are doing them literally non-stop without any breaks between, which is impossible unless you are the only person at the drag strip. each quarter mile passes only use about 1.5% of the battery. so unless you're doing several dozen passes, it's a non-issue.
if you try to do laps at a track, yes, it will go into reduced power mode. it really was designed to be a family sedan, not a track car. the idea to make it the quickest sedan ever only came after they realized the crazy potential of the thing.
neither of those apply to my usage of the car, though. i keep it in Ludicrous mode all the time. i don't drive like a maniac, but if some joker in a Hellcat starts revving his engine at me, i can put him in my rear view mirror before his car is even done shifting into the correct gear. on ramps and stoplights are always fun.

Quoted from Darscot:

So that Euro family Sedan is the low end model right? Nothing I said is not a fact, not hyperbole at all. Being the post after that video is pretty funny. Even if we compare the average time of their line ups what other company is in the class of Tesla?

Quoted from toyotaboy:

$35k (it was 28.5k before the tax rebate expired). The same money gets you a nissan leaf or a chevy bolt, both which don't have the same battery range or speed, or the charging speed. Currently there's really no way for ANY manufacturer to build an electric car with a decent range for less than $35k, and it's not the motor or the technology, it comes down to the price of lithium-ion cells. Tesla has the best chance at maximizing cost reduction by optimizing the cell size eliminating the middle man by producing it themselves. Every car manufacturer really needs to have at least one electric car in their lineup because the day a battery breakthrough happens (increasing capacity or reducing cost, or both), electric is going to be VERY competitive with ICE.

Quoted from phil-lee:

An in-depth analysis I recently read (or maybe it was anti-Tesla propaganda) proposed that one of the major Manufacturers will simply mainstream and mass produce a car based on Tesla and kill Tesla in the Market.
The Tucker and Delorean come to mind as ahead of their time upstarts destroyed by the big three. I would not feel comfortable holding the stock long term.

Quoted from Darscot:

You do realize your car can’t beat a Tesla. I noticed you not providing any details of this car your driving. No one thinks the LR 3 is blowing the doors off cars in the 1/4.

Quoted from Darscot:

Seems in reality it does 4.0 and only pulls 12s in the 1/4 last time I checked a 12 is no 10.8. A Tesla will blow the doors off your Ferrari inspired Alpha Romeo, maybe you should line it up against Rich Rebuilds P Model S that will cost half what you paid? I love that you using the what I paid amount. You keep saying I'm talking hyperbole but what have I said that isn't true? You just keep moving the goal post. No one thought I was talking about a Model 3 but I doubt your car could even beat a performance 3.

Quoted from Brijam:

I think it’s pretty well-established that a supercar means something in the $300k or higher range. So no, not really a hyperbole.
I’m certain there are cars that can beat my P85 over a quarter mile. Maybe even yours, although unless you tune your car and keep it in top condition it is very unlikely you will match the mfg’s specs with a brand new engine.
None of that matters. I smoke everybody off the line at a stoplight, when I need to pass somebody, when I need to merge... and that’s all I care about. I’m not risking jail time just to street race a quarter mile with some joker.

Quoted from Darscot:

No one thought I was saying every single Tesla on the road would beat every car on the road. All your doing is whataboutism. I made one comment that is true, someone else posted video evidence showing it to be true. You ego got bruised and you started the whole but my car, you give Tesla fans a bad name. You did exactly what another poster commented, full man baby because an EV is faster. The car you drive should not be a support system for your ego.
P.S. You started the whole swinging dick thing. I made a commented directed at no one.

Quoted from andrewket:

The real value to owning a Tesla isn’t 0-60 or quarter mile times; that’s just frosting. The real value is not polluting our environment and making real progress against global warming. I do nothing and the solar panels on my house charge my car. I wake up every day to a full “tank”. The fact that it’s a pleasure to drive, and more fun than most ICE cars is a bonus, and proves you don’t have to sacrifice to curb your impact on our world.
Full disclosure: I’ve owned several Porsche, Audi, and BMWs in the past. I’m a car snob, but not a super gear head. All my cars are now electric. I’m long on TSLA.

Quoted from Darscot:

Dude you came in to troll and you just keep digging deeper. Just move on..

Quoted from Brijam:

There have been many studies done. The net benefit is massively in our favor.
When, not if, we shift massively to EV’s, there will have to be improvements made in our grid. There’s no way around that. I feel confident we can meet the challenge given the profits our electrical monopolies enjoy and the fact that the upgrades would set themselves up for further profits.
Given the fact that solar and wind are now the cheapest forms of power by far, any new capacity coming online is certain to be greener than most of what we have. In my state we’re well over 50% renewable and rising. All my power is renewable, but this isn’t the norm yet.
A lot of the impact can be mitigated by shifting charging to off peak times. All Teslas, and many other EV’s (the VW e-Golf for sure) can be set to charge only during certain hours.
By the way, it’s not well-known, but managing off-peak electrical grid load is a serious problem, and off-peak EV charging would actually help.
As costs continue to topple for solar + battery in-home installations this will also help.

Quoted from Luckydogg420:

Ok, wait a sec. if we’re saying that a super car is worth $300k or more. Then you could use the same statement in Tesla’s defense. Let me try.
There are many non super car tesla’s that eclipse the speed of STANDARD (insert any auto mfgr.) ...I don't know why you continue to gloss over that fact.
I have to admit some of your arguments are kinda thin.

Quoted from toyotaboy:

The actual panels and wind turbines are cheap these days... Getting those devices to work with the power grid (converting, managing the power, conditioning it, storing it) are still challenging and expensive. A lot of the electrical companies (at least from conversations I've had with someone that lives in california) make it very difficult to not only setup a solar system, but they limit how much you can sell back (and they also screw you when they DO buy electricity from you).
I've been following "mechanical energy" storage on youtube. Bill gates is a big believer in it. Basically instead of using batteries (which are expensive and have a limited lifespan), you say use that energy to run a low gear motor that lifts a heavy weight on a pulley (which creates potential energy). As you need energy, you simply run the system in reverse.

Quoted from Darscot:

Man you just keep trying this same silly argument in the absence of reality. What Tesla has a 5 second 0-60? Is a single model actually that slow? My RWD LR 3 is faster than that. You can only post false information so many times. You literally tried the whole EVs are bad for the environment because of electricity production, that little gem is nonsense. It’s silly argument number one in the troll handbook. Everyone is fully aware I was referring to performance models. You just keep pretending otherwise.

Quoted from Brijam:

It’s a popular misconception that solar won’t work outside of California. It’s just not true:
https://www.energy.gov/maps/solar-energy-potential
From that map, the east coast gets just as much sun as the west coast. More than where I live in fact!
The real gains come from household rooftop solar in urban areas IMO. Wind turbines have very small footprints and don’t require large amounts of space.
As far as wind, your claim is that there’s more wind on the west coast??
And it’s safe to call it just ‘energy’ now. Alternative is kind of an 80’s term.

Quoted from Brijam:

Funny. I’m pretty confident there’s an equal amount of hot air from the east coast.
They’ve got plenty of wind power in Europe, and they have vastly less space than on the east coast.

Quoted from crwjumper:

I have to say . . .
I have the dual battery standard motor model 3. I find that I'm having a hard time NOT snap-accelerating to squirt into openings between cars or passing just for the fun of it, and am turning into a bit of a dick on the roads. I'm working on my self control right now . . .
I can't imagine what a douchebag I'd be if I had the M3 dual motor performance model. Glad I bought mine before these were available.

Quoted from Nilroc:

Elon is tired of the Shorts. What better way than squeeze them for a couple of billion then say your goodbyes by going private. It will be structured some what like Spacex where the current shareholders can stay on board for the long ride or sell out at $420.00 per share.

Quoted from Darscot:

I'm just dumbfounded that the EPA is actively working against the environment and the oil barons of the middle east are trying to diversify and go green.

Quoted from toyotaboy:

ARE they still losing money? (and that much?). I thought they were approaching cash positive. Let's assume next quarter they are, is any car company worth 61 billion? Sure, I mean volkswagen is worth 75 billion, toyota is worth 236 billion. Surely Tesla has more potential value than Volkswagen. You have to wonder though, is he just switching from being owned by stockholders, to being owned by private investors? Or do you think it's like a shark deal where he gets a loan by giving up a small percentage of the company, and he can slowly pay that loan back as the company ramps up?

Quoted from MrBally:

Current shareholders receive a check for their shares when they tender them. If they do not properly fill out the required transmittal form(s), they get nothing and the shares stop trading. The redemption value is fixed ( maybe the tweeted value of $420.00) so eventually, when tendered, an individual shareholder gets $420.00/share. No adjustment for inflation nor any dividend payments. Taxes are due on the gains (vs. Offset) for the tax year the gain was earned.

Quoted from jalpert:

I love Tesla, Elon, and most of all my Model 3. But, if he would just shut the fuck up, the cars speak for themselves. All this success in spite of all the negatives, by the time production ramps, the BS will die down.
He is thinking WAY too hard about this.

Quoted from Brijam:

It's funny, you're suggesting what Apple did to Jobs back in the day. They threw Jobs out and Apple tanked. Until Jobs came back.
Like it or not, Tesla and Musk are inseparable. But I agree that he should put the Twitter down.

Quoted from Brijam:

If you put a 'stable' force at the helm the company will tank. Have a look at how that worked for Yahoo.
Disrupting companies like Tesla need to be run by disruptors, cowboys, mavericks, whatever moniker you want to use.
It's ludicrous to think the company needs stability. They may have turned the corner on profitability, but they have many battles ahead. He needs to be in there shaking it up and challenging assumptions.
To think otherwise is foolish.
I think taking the Saudi's money is a good idea as long as they don't have management or control.

Quoted from Brijam:

Regarding Saudi Arabia, their leadership has been nothing but a staunch ally of the United States. I disagree strongly with their human rights record, and on a great many other things. The only subversion I'm aware of from the Saudi government is in relation to support of a certain campaign in 2016. Were you referring to that or something else?

Quoted from Luckydogg420:

Here’s something to shock the nay sayers. Tesla isn’t the only electric car beating the all mighty hellcat on the strip.

Quoted from jalpert:

It's just crazy that, there are so many people who hate this car, most of these people couldn't have possibly driven one let alone been in one.
This car isn't for everyone, no one car is, but I don't know a single person who has driven one and called it "bad." Not even some of the harshest car reviewers out there, even the tough ones give the car generally high scores.
I'm immediately skeptical of anyone who "hates" this car.

Quoted from Brijam:

It's really sad that we can't have a rational discourse anymore in society. People are too proud to say "Yup, I was wrong" when confronted with facts. You get called names for defending actual verifiable facts.

Quoted from Darscot:

There is some information available on this and you would be hard pressed to find a car on the market that cost less than a Tesla in this period. If you compare Tesla to other manufacturers they are the market leader in additional costs. The issue currently is the time it takes to get the car fixed. Many of the issues the out of warranty owner is having were notorious in the early runs but are not longer an issue. Things like the door handles were improved in the later production. The kind of issues he is having a pretty common with all car companies. Own any car for any length of time and you will know the things that habitually fail.

Quoted from paynemic:

Just test drove the model 3 for the first time. Great vehicle. I happened to be driving the performance version (I’ll be buying the base model when it arrives). But the things I was most impressed with didn’t have anything to do with speed. It was smooth and elegant and more comfortable than my model S. Don’t get me wrong, I like my S more, but this car is a game changer for the world. I challenge any haters to arrange a test drive. They’re free.

Quoted from sd_tom:

a while i was looking at a used tesla buying guide i found somewhere talking about how difficult it is to figure out what you are getting as the available feature/packages lists change more often than once a year. (this is for private sales, buying a used one from tesla they seem to publish the stats clearly).
anyways the article mentioned using ludicrous mode more than X times voided the battery warranty as something else to look out for. wondering what the truth is to that given all the other misinformation out there.
edit: found the article again
https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/used-tesla-model-s-buying-guide

Quoted from DCFAN:

That is great. I am not a fan of German cars.

Quoted from crwjumper:

Before you call for Elon to step down, watch the interview with Joe Rogan above. In full.

Quoted from Brijam:

I've said for months the stock is going to take a battering until Q3 financials are released.
I think Musk knows what he's doing too. That guy Rogan is a /major/ YouTube star and a mega petrol-head who was always getting the figures wrong on Teslas... and Musk convinced the guy to buy a P100D. Very smart marketing if you ask me. These are not the actions of someone out of control, or someone in desperation. The media is spinning it as negatively as they can.
Did anyone watch the Mercedes EQC launch video? It was... bizarre.

Quoted from Brijam:

Illuminate me why he did a 2 hour interview with a YouTube comedian.
It seems pretty clear to me. Unlike most execs Elon sees long term. The stock is down. He knows it will go up. Good time to get out and promote, particularly on channels that people who are likely to actually drop $50k on a car are likely to hang out - a comedy channel catering to petrol heads.

Quoted from Brijam:

It strains credibility for you to call this particular billionaire an idiot. He did found PayPal, SpaceX and Tesla. Each of those has utterly and completely transformed its industry and none were obvious or easy to do at the time. I think it's fair to say that his IQ is well north of the average.
You call going on Rogan egomaniacal? Name me a CEO or celebrity that doesn't do this kind of thing all the time.
Or you mean taking a /puff/ of 100% legal pot was idiotic? Sure, I've seen a lot of grouchy old men have 1950's style Reefer Madness freak outs. But it's 2018, man. Pot is completely mainstream for people under 40, particularly in the places that selling the most Model 3's. I've read a LOT of 20 and 30-somethings giving him mad props. Which person do you think he's trying to sell a Model 3 to?
And don't put words into my mouth. I'm not ascribing everything he does to "some genius plan." I've criticized him before in this very thread. In particular he should absolutely have someone review his tweets before they are published. But I just can't subscribe to the idea that he's somehow lost his mind or he has a low IQ. That's not rational.

Quoted from Brijam:

I didn't say 20 years old. I said "20 and 30 somethings."
Your data says the average age is 43 - that means half of all reservation holders are ///younger/// than 43. Your data supports my case perfectly.
Where Tesla does Tesla sell the most cars? Silicon Valley. Average age of a programmer there? 28. With an income and a desire for a tech heavy car:
https://www.businessinsider.com/silicon-valley-age-programmer-2015-4
And that bullshit you're trying to pull by twisting my words is a logical fallacy called an Appeal to Extremes.
https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/30/Appeal-to-Extremes

He took a puff of a legal intoxicant and said right then in the interview that he wasn't into pot. He wasn't ripping bong hits or dabbing, but the media coverage makes him out to be a pothead. That's not a red herring, that's directly to the point that he's under a coordinated character assassination campaign.
So the guy drinks whisky during a YouTube video with a comedian. I suppose you can call that being on the job. You expect the guy to be a teetotaler, I think it makes him more human. It certainly seems to have resonated with younger people.

Quoted from Brijam:

I'm absolutely certain that a lot of 50 and 60-somethings buy Model 3's. So it's rather disingenuous of you to suggest that if the average age is 43 that there aren't a /substantial/ number of 20 and 30 something reservation holders.
And of course you're right about the exact definition of mean, but that doesn't support your conclusion that there aren't substantial numbers of 20 to 30-somethings buying or looking to buy a Model 3.

No, curiously enough what I said is what I meant. I'll break it down since you seem to be having as much trouble with basic English as I am with high school math:
1) Plenty of 20 to 30-something people buy $43,000 cars (and many more of them will but $35,000 ones).
2) Where Tesla sells the most cars, in Silicon Valley California, the average age of a programmer there is 28.
3) A lot of younger car lovers watch Joe Rogan on YouTube, so appearing there and convincing Rogan to buy a P100D

Quoted from Nilroc:

I bought a performance Model 3. I'm 58 but I feel like 20 when I drive it!

Quoted from Brijam:

Lastly I’m sorry to say that the lifetime free supercharging doesn’t transfer to new owners when the car is sold or transferred.

Quoted from pinballdork:

My wife is expecting her used certified Model next week. With free supercharging. I don't know if you buy out of the Tesla certified network.
https://www.tesla.com/inventory/used/ms
Loooong story short. 6 weeks ago, my wife received her model 3. It died 3hrs after owning it, Tesla had to tow it, tow company trashed the front and the rear end, Tesla gave us a model S P85D loaner, last week they say her newly assigned car is ready (because she refused to take back the damaged vehicle), The day before pick they inform her that there was a problem where she was still assigned the same car and she would have to wait for a new one... In the mean time i'm loving the shit out of the model S, so we decided to cancel the 3, and get a used certified S that we are expecting on Monday... unlike my wife i'm in no hurry to give back the sweet loaner.
I've never been in a Tesla prior to this, and i've had 20+ people in the car, who I have given a ride to. And they all friggin loved the car, you could see the smile on peoples faces while driving it... the comfort, quietness and yes speed... Tesla should set up driving experiences in malls and give rides to anyone and everyone. So many people haven't had the opportunity to ride or drive.

Quoted from jalpert:

5 star crash safety rating in every category and sub-category. I'll give the regulars here a few minutes to find a way to bash this....

Quoted from jalpert:

Thanks for proving my point.

Quoted from paynemic:

I’m still puzzled why SO much hate for an American startup car company making such enjoyable cars. You guys are an embarrassment. Is there no middle ground here?

Quoted from paynemic:

PS: stop toying and buy the S. You won’t regret it.

Quoted from kbliznick:

Do you know have many passenger car models Ford is making in North America after 2019?
ONE. The Mustang.
Currently their excuse is that the crossovers and SUV's are profitable and their cars aren't. I don't believe it. I think they see the writing on the wall in terms of EV's and they need to end their ICE model lines BEFORE they drop the cheaper than Tesla EV's onto the market. If they introduce an affordable EV directly in competition of their ICE model cars the resale value on the used ICE's will drop out and hurt the used car market which in turn hurts the new car market.

Quoted from pezpunk:

in case you were wondering, yes, the Model S fits a pin!
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
[quoted image]

Quoted from crwjumper:

The Quadrifoglio is without a doubt an amazing car, and a welcome re-introduction to the US for Alfa. Really sweet!

Quoted from Nilroc:

It is amazing how Tesla is disrupting the car market in a relatively short period of time. They just took out the Toyota Corolla Family of cars for September Sales in the US. The truly amazing feat is the Toyota Corolla sells at around $22500 US while the Model 3 is selling at an average around $60,000.
Maybe 4th quarter sales will take out Honda Civic and Accord. Well done Tesla !

Quoted from DCFAN:

It is funny but SUV sales and Tesla sales continue to grow while regular cars continue to drop in sales:
https://www.planetizen.com/news/2018/08/100267-suvs-sales-increase-california-while-car-sales-drop-except-those-plugs

Quoted from Nilroc:

I disagree. The top 5 cars being traded in for model 3 cost far less. Tesla Model 3 is disrupting the entire Sedan Market.
https://electrek.co/2018/08/01/tesla-model-3-top-5-trade-in-cars/
Soon as the base model is introduced Model 3 will reach #1 in the US

Quoted from pezpunk:

i think looking at the percent change for the Camry, Accord, Civic, and Corolla offers a compelling argument that the Model 3 *IS* stealing sales from those far cheaper vehicles.
[quoted image]

Quoted from pezpunk:

it's not crazy at all -- it's definitely, almost indisputably happening. The Model 3 is causing a lot of people who don't normally splurge on their car purchase to do just that. Look at the Corolla for example -- its sales are down 36% THIS MONTH, exactly at the point where Model 3 sales exploded. It's silly to pretend those two factors aren't related. Sales for the Camry are down 6% for the year, but 20% for this month alone, again right when Model 3 production blew up. I don't see how you can reasonably deny its impact.

Quoted from Adams:

I've had my 3 for a few months now and have been loving it.
Before purchase, I did the math comparing it to Toyota Camry/Honda Accord and the cost of ownership was actually significantly cheaper for the 3.
I get free charging from my employer which isn't the case for everyone so I understand that my math may be slightly different, but not only is the 3 way nicer than a Camry/Accord, also being cheaper for me made it a no-brainer. I agree people are definitely moving away from the traditionally popular ICE sedans in favor of the model 3.

Quoted from Adams:

Easy: The accord was actually more and the model 3 was actually less.
I wasn't looking at the base model with no options Accord. The Accord Touring, with minimal options is already over $30k.
My Model 3 was $50K, but then take away the $7,500 tax credit is really only $42,500.
Over 7 years, the difference in fuel costs is about $12,500 (I spent ~$1,800 on gas per year). Also save a few grand on maintenance as no oil changes or brakes etc.

Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

Putting cost aside, would you rather be compared to Jesus or Dirty Dan??

Quoted from pezpunk:

reducing one's environmental impact is still a good thing regardless of whether or not a person can reduce it to zero.

Quoted from pezpunk:

I do not see any logic to that assertion.

Quoted from OnTheSnap:

As an owner of a Model 3 Performance and Model X P100D, seeing this stuff going on really depresses me. While my service so far has been exceptional in the Bay area, this sort of stuff could truly ruin Tesla. Esp since they rely on no marketing, and mostly word of mouth and viral marketing.
So much amazing tech, forward thinking. And this is such a dumb ass problem. Sure you can hand waive it as growing pains. But model 3 puts them in the main stream. And now this is festering into a major block. I hope it's their highest priority in 2019. As people are burned, they don't give second chances.

And a Tesla's lovers objective opinion about the issue:

Quoted from Brijam:

I’m trying to understand your argument. Once a car sells as many as an incredibly popular car like the Camry, it isn’t appealing to ‘many?’ That’s a bit of a contradiction isn’t it?
Anyway, I don’t think the A-Class has hurt Mercedes-Benz’ appeal.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_A-Class

Like which pioneers? If you’re referring to Ford and Mercedes-Benz I wholeheartedly agree. Or are you referring to some other industry?

Quoted from Darscot:

Are you really trying to argue that Tesla is better off chasing the niche exotica car company then entering the main stream market? I guess you have been under a rock but the new Roadster has pretty much the entire exotic car market drooling in anticipation.[quoted image]

Quoted from Darscot:

The issue is your opinion has no basis in reality or fact. What did Toyota and its Camry post for profits something like 5 billion. Most exotic cars are owned by parent companies that bury the numbers on the balance sheet because they lose money on them.

Quoted from toyotaboy:

Money doesn't make problems go away.. Even if tesla were making $50k on every car sold the issues would still be there (though theoretically they could hire more engineers to fix those issues). There's a reason why high volume vehicles like camry's, corollas, accords, F-150's have few issues (none of which I would consider high end cars).. Because they sell a LOT of them so they can't afford to. The biggest money suck of any company are warranty issues, and it's not just the replacement part but often labor, shipping parts to dealers, the un-measurable loss of sales from the perception that your product quality sucks.

Again, apples to oranges comparison. Ferrari sales probably went up because now they are truly Ferrari (I assume fiat had some influence, maybe even sharing of certain parts). Same can be said for Mazda when they split back away from Ford. Remember when Mercedes meant something? Then Chrysler bought them and they started to suck?

Not untrue... but don't hold your breathe. Toyota is waiting until the midnight hour to switch over to battery, and right now Tesla has a 10-year lead on them (by the time Toyota does release an electric car, it will be 15 years).

Quoted from Darscot:

You do realize Toyota makes 5 billion profit compared to Ferrari 4 billion revenue.

Quoted from Darscot:

No one said taking over the main stream market was easy. Your point that Tesla is better of trying to stay niche is laughable. The Camry is 100 times the brand and success of any Ferrari. No one gives a shit if elitist put there nose up because now everyone has a Tesla and they don't feel special anymore. The goal and plan has always been to put everyone in in an EV.
My New Years resolution to empty the ignore list just keeps getting harder.

Quoted from TheHive:

My wife recently got a Tesla model 3. It’s silver (which you can’t get anymore for whatever reason), has the dual motor, & premium wheels. Before the 3 she had a Honda Civic which was effiencient and super reliable. Mid 2018 we bought a Prius prime hybrid thinking we would forgo our Tesla reservation. The Prius is odd looking for sure but grew on us. It had a 25 mile all electric range which we reasoned we’d never use more than that in a day with the short commute to work and errands to run. Only had the Prius for a couple months then Tesla messaged us and said ‘your car is ready to configure’. Sold the Toyota which was a great car, and got the model 3. It’s the most amazing thing we’ve ever purchased! It’s super fun to drive. Very fast. Amazing sound system. The aggressive one pedal driving is fantastic. The simple and stylish design along with the technology on this thing is second to no other car imo. Its how all cars should be. No fossil fuels to put in, no oil to change, no transmission fluid, brakes will probably last forever if you utilize the one pedal driving well. Only fluid is windshield washer and brake fluid. The batteries have an 8 year warranty and if you only charge them to 70% (220ish mile charge on the long range 310 mile car), and keep it plugged in when not in use, the batteries will probably last 15 years. It’s been a few months now and I’m still wanting to leave my platinum F150 ecoboost in the garage and take her model 3. It’s so easy and satisfying to drive! Plus I can drive in the carpool lane and have free parking downtown. We do have a solar system with 45 panels which obviously works well with owning an electric car. We rented a Tesla model S with ludicrous mode when on a trip in Cali. Model 3 is a better car hands down. The only negative is if your a taller/bigger person as the 3 is pretty compact. There’s my short story review for what it’s worth. Here’s a pic of the car the day we got it.
[quoted image]

Quoted from Darscot:

It started with this, that Tesla is losing out because its becoming a Camry. I agree though it's a pointless discussion.

Quoted from Darscot:

I'm not upset at all, I do admit I have never suffered fools. This whole thing that people say things that make no sense and have no basis in reality. Then they endless defend this pointless position because its just their opinion. If you think Tesla can't survive the transition to mainstream so be it, there are plenty of valid reasons and debatable points on the subject. I like exotic cars and me and my elitist friends don't think Tesla is special enough anymore is just being a prat.

Quoted from Nilroc:

Wow! If you don't see uniqueness in a Model 3 you have been living under a rock. I own a model 3 P3D+ Pearl White and there is nothing like it available.
I just keep getting over the air updates every couple of weeks that makes the car even better. What ICE car does that?
The latest update coming is an improvement of the security system. Soon all the cameras will be activated to give full 360 vision while car is parked. Nice feature for Hit and Runs. It's just a fantastic car. Mine is a September 2018 build and had no paint or gap issues. It is a beautiful car to drive and the acceleration is off the charts!
Tesla is a very very young company compared to the Legacy Automakers. They are going to have their bumps in the road but in the end we need someone to step up and show that Electric is the alternative to Fossil Fuel and Diesel. Diesel especially . That stuff is cancer causing!

Quoted from Darscot:

Actually I said that I don't suffer fools, it is a very common phase or idiom. I stated that your condescending elitist attitude that Tesla is going the way of Camry was you being a prat. I think its accurate I didn't come in a thread for Tesla owners and say the car just isn't special enough anymore. I am not name calling you I telling you straight up my opinion on your behavior. Why is it I have to suffer your opinion but you reduce mine to just name calling. I think I have completely justified my opinion and point of view and have nothing more to add.