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I just got my email to configure!! I’m a Day one preorder and own a model S and live in Idaho! So they’re getting out there.
Sadly, I’m gonna wait for the stripped down version. I already have a loaded tesla and want to try the absolute base.
I got pushed back too. Late 2018 for standard range. (Day 1 reservation, previous owner). I’m guessing that will still qualify for full $7500 rebate. Iirc the full rebate goes for a full two quarters after the quarter in which they hit 200,000 vehicles. So unless they hit that before March 31 (unrealistic I think) all sales through the end of year will get the full rebate. And then the half rebate goes for two more quarters (I think— please correct me if you know more). A bummer, but I’m a Tesla fan and if this helps then through the cash crunch, I’m happy.
I personally hope they’re waiting till April 1 or even July 1 to deliver their 200,000th US car. That would give the most people the full tax rebate (myself included).
And to the guy who is contemplating getting a model S: just do it. I have one. If you have the means, max it out. Get the p100D with ludicrous mode and it will blow your mind.
Rubberducks guy: come for a ride sometime and you’ll likely be less distespectful of Tesla’s accomplishments.
Interesting read. Doing better now for sure.
Just got to sit in a model 3 for the first time. I’m even more sold. Awesome.
Quoted from pezpunk:if their cars were so crappy, wouldn't that be reflected in customer satisfaction surveys? Tesla kills it in regards to customer satisfaction, though.
Agreed. The Tesla haters are either crazy or have a vested interest in ICEs
Quoted from lancestorm:Because it is. Trash. I get a good laugh everytime they delay and delay. Bleeding...
Troll much?
Give up your diesel and drive a Tesla. You’ll understand.
Quoted from rubberducks:Pretty sure they'll need another bail out sooner rather than later.
The new Jaguar and Porsche electric cars are going to be cheaper and marginally more expensive than competing Teslas, respectively. Who's going to buy a Tesla in that company? They already have a deservedly appalling reputation for quality control and reliability. Porsche, and the Jaguar of today are at the polar opposite end of that spectrum. It'll just get worse as more cars launch in the high margin, high price space, and within a year or two, far higher volume lower margin, lower price cars.
The stock price assumes exponential growth of the electric car market, year on year, immediately, and Tesla maintaining a virtual monopoly. The former will eventually happen, but not in the next year to 18 months, as supply of suitable batteries simply isn't good enough or cheap enough. In 2 years it will be. But Tesla's cash burn is epic. 2 years is a long time. The latter - maintaining or growing a monopoly in the space - categorically will not happen. Their market share will get smaller and smaller.
Probably their worst decision has been to burden themselves with huge costs. Wholly owned dealerships and charging station networks etc. The more they expand the worse the cash burn gets.
Surely you’re kidding about their quality reputation. Have you seen the satisfaction surveys where Tesla wins EVERY year? The rest of what you say may or may not happen, it’s all speculation. But I had to call out that falsehood.
Quoted from QuickSilverShelby:I can't believe all of you bitches having such a cat fight over Tesla . You love Telsa, fine. You hate Telsa, that's fine too. I can't believe all the energy you all invest in hammering out keystrokes and insults at each other. It's f#cking weird.
QSS
Why U here bro?
Anyone have an update on the 200,000 car tax credit situation? I’m wondering if anyone has read any good reliable info that says they’ll wait till July 1 to sell the 200,000th US car. It matters to me because I really want to buy the base model but I don’t want to lose out on the full $7500 tax break.
Quoted from StrangeSubset1:That really would not make any sense at this point. They were really close last quarter already.
If you’ve seen the numbers, it makes a ton of sense. It would buy them a whole extra quarter of discounted sales. And that’s a quarter at high production volumes.
Tesla definitely polarizes people. I love mine and can’t wait to get my 3. And I’d take on ANYONE in my P100D S. It’s crazy fun. I took to it to the drag strip last summer and killed everyone. But they were all really supportive and cool. It was a fun night.
Quoted from Nilroc:Actually the new configs are the end of this week as per Elon's tweet on Friday.
I think he’s referring to when they’re delivered. That’s what counts toward the critical 200k US number. Definitely a lot of signs they’re not rushing us deliveries. I’m positive that’s wishful thinking on my part but they’d be stupid not to. Even if they stockpile them somewhere till July 1. It will keep a lot more orders in the queue. $7500 is big. $3750 is nothing to sniff at but I wonder if it’s enough to get some people to pull out.
Quoted from toyotaboy:another crash, rear-ended a firetruck at 60mph because she was texting, only broke an ankle.
https://jalopnik.com/tesla-model-s-driver-says-autopilot-was-on-before-crash-1826022381
I believe they call it "semi-autonomous" for a reason
Yeah. That chick is crazy. It’s not even a supported feature to stop at red lights yet! I’ve driven that road many times. Don’t engage autopilot unless you’re paying attention
Quoted from pintechev:They can’t make Bolts fast enough. When I bought mine they had 7 in inventory and 4 sold before I drove off for a test drive.
Which is kind of a fascinating statement considering gm is a huge car company with crazy amounts of experience building cars. Something doesn’t add up there...
Quoted from pintechev:I picked the Bolt. And AFMr. And had money leftover for another game
Can’t argue with the AFMr. That’s a sound car/pinball decision right there.
Electrek “now highly confident that the 200,000th US delivery is being pushed to Q3 and therefore, the full tax credit is going to be available for all 2018 deliveries.”
As I predicted (and a lot of others of course). I’m happy about it. Still hoping to get my $35k car with the full tax deduction
Quoted from StrangeSubset1:Surprised to hear this, but glad and happy that more people get it with the full credit.
35k car with full credit will most likely not happen though. Last time I heard it was mentioned that there will not be any deliveries of the SR model in 2018 and they will start to deliver in January 2019. That would still give you $3750 in credit, making the car $31250, which is still pretty amazing for a car like this.
BTW. after driving my 3 for about 3 months, I am on vacation in Europe, and constantly turning the windshield wipers on, while trying to shift into reverse...lol. 1st world problem I know.
I have an S and it happens to me all the time.
Quoted from AAAV8R:I don’t think you are realizing what is going on here.
I’m sure you are aware that Elon had been under extreme pressure to hit the production targets that he has forecast in the last several conference calls and earnings reports. Now, normally, setbacks wouldn’t be such a big deal if there were light at the end of the tunnel. But we are looking at a company that has been burning through roughly $16 million a day, and is running out of - if not RAN out of - options to raise additional capital.
Elon promised a state of the art, fully automated facility that was so advanced, the average person could not even fathom the levels of complexity and advancement. We all know of the myriad of unforeseen problems that the line ran into. Furthermore, attempts at stationing workers on the line were mostly a failure since the idle robotic equipment did not allow the space needed. So the primary line is functioning, but barely, albeit at a trickle.
The news I was waiting to see was how long it would take to get the primary line functioning as it was originally intended. I assumed that this was something line software issues etc. Elon’s earnings calls early this year even made it sound like this was another glitch that would be overcome shortly, and the line would be cranking out cars. But a mere couple of months later, Elon made a stunning announcement that they had ripped the entire parts conveyance system out of the factory. As of today, there has been no announcement as to a Plan B to re-tool the facility.
So Elon announced this “second assembly line” as a means to not only to hit the production targets, but more importantly, stop the (cash flow) bleeding. So this second assembly line has been under a microscope by virtually every institutional investment firm to car enthusiasts.
The line only got its permit a couple of weeks ago. Right away, all of the aforementioned parties were asking questions on how many cars the line was producing, and what the production targets were. Not only were no numbers offered, but the company refused to even confirm whether or not the line was operational. To make sure nobody saw what was going on at the tent, Elon had semi trailers ring part of the facility to block the view. Looking at the video where the drone rises above the trailers, the answer is pretty clear - virtually nothing.
There are also some other very alarming takeaways from the video. The line is clearly not completed. Components and parts kits are scattered around the outside of the facility. No cars are rolling off. There are no robots - assembly is all manual. Observers (like the drone operator) that have been watching the tent facility have reported that the frames are being forklifted from way over at the paint facility, and manually loaded onto the conveyor belt.
Obviously, these reports and observations have been getting back to investors and analysts that everything was not on the up and up with this new facility. So they started asking questions. Just days ago Elon told everyone that the new assembly line was not only functioning (not true) and that the quality of the cars coming off the line had “slightly higher quality” than the primary line.
Here is a brief summary of what I see:
The company is still hemorrhaging money, and is running out of options for raising additional capital. Getting Model 3 production up to target levels was critical to mitigating cash flow losses. The second assembly line is clearly not functional, and Elon is obviously lying about it. Furthermore, even IF the second assembly line becomes operational, it will be crawling along using manual assembly.
Tesla is in big, big trouble.
You and every other person who is short on the stock (or has other axes to grind against electric cars) has been saying this kind of stuff for years. Literally years. I’ve been to Tesla’s assembly lines (admittedly not the one in the tent) and they are marvels of modern assembly.
Tesla is intentionally delaying shipments of model 3 so they can delay the tax break so more people can take advantage of it. The ramp is nearly to the point of their target (5000 per week iirc). Admittedly they’re burning cash, but Tesla has always found a way. They have massive amounts of infrastructure and equity. I don’t pretend to be any smarter than anyone else here, but there have been a ton of smart people who bet against Tesla in the last few years who have lost their shirts. It will be interesting to watch what happens.
More than likely this conversation will happen again in about two years as it has every couple years since tesla started. Google it. “Tesla killer”. “Tesla bankruptcy imminent” etc.
Quoted from AAAV8R:I have never owned or attempted to short TSLA stock.
I own a Chevy Volt, and up until a few months ago, I had a Model 3 reserved. In addition, I put my $1000 deposit in sight unseen, before the official reveal.
And for good reasons. Unique and unforeseen circumstances have helped keep this company afloat. However, the cash situation is clearly unsustainable. Just because the company didn’t go bust in the past doesn’t mean it will never happen. I know you don’t believe that, but I would ask - is that prediction based on groupie faith, or practical analysis?
I’m not so much a groupie as a fan. I’m so sick of Americans and their huge gas guzzling SUVs sending oil money to countries that want us dead, that I’m rooting for a disruption. That fact that you have a volt is in large measure a credit to tesla. Electric cars were essentially dead before tesla.
I guess what i would say is I’m tired of people gleefully rooting for the death of tesla. It’s a feel-good story that has changed the world for the better. The media has been beyond unfair in their coverage of Tesla. Every “practical analysis” of the past said they were doomed years ago. I’d love to know what unpredictable miracles happened to keep them afloat. Sounds like good management.
I think the Kodak analogy is pretty apt in this situation. The auto industry is ripe for disruption. Even if Tesla as we know it doesn’t continue, they will reorganize and come back. Far too many assets and brand loyalty to just disappear.
I respect your opinion about Tesla, I just don’t like or agree with it. And that’s ok.
Quoted from Darscot:I own a car but I’m not a shareholder so I have no financial investment. All this talk of Tesla going under and comparisons to pinball companies is laughable. No one is losing on Tesla, the stock is super strong anyone wanting out can sell at a substantial profit. If you guys want a thread about the doom of Tesla make one. It would be nice to be able to talk with people that are actually in to the cars but it’s always the same old bullshit.
That’s a fair call. OP should change the name of the thread though if he really doesn’t want trolls. It’s more of a question that could be answered either way.
To be clear, I’m in. I own an S and have a preorder on a 3. Trying to decide if I want to wait to get the true 35k version (but likely sacrifice $3250 of the tax break) or just get the current long range +premium features. It’s actually probably going to mainly be driven by my kids so I really don’t need anything beyond basic.
Tesla will be cash flow positive soon. And investors will be throwing money at them again. That may be unique, but it’s not unforeseen. 
Tesla will March on to success. Game changing company. Traditional analysis does not apply.
Quoted from twinturb089:Tesla. It will be the biggest ponzi scheme to date. If and when the government pulls the subsidies from tesla, they will be done.
I hope you were being ironic/sarcastic. Because if you were, it was funny. If not, you are seriously unlearned in both Tesla and Ponzi schemes.
If you want to see who has benefitted the most from US government intereference and bailouts, look no further than Detroit.
Quoted from IdahoRealtor:Lots of brand devotion here. I get it. I'm just saying there's signs of trouble. To dismiss all red flags, mock all naysayers and continue crying "All is well" might backfire on you. I recall similar behavior from the SkitB, DP and Heighway fanboys right up to the bitter end. I don't have a crystal ball, but at least I have the ability to view the situation objectively. If some of you lose you chub for a moment you might be able to do the same.
It’s clear you are acting like a troll in an enthusiast thread. Any company has a chance of failure. I don’t think anyone’s disputing that. It just gets old because those of us who have followed tesla for a while know the cycle has repeated itself many times. Tesla is the darling of the market. The media and know-it-all’s starts focusing on negatives and the naysayers come out in abundance citing traditional analytics that say tesla will be dead by Christmas. Tesla makes impossible promises and delivers them late. Stock goes up again. Been there done that.
Start a “Tesla will be dead by X” thread and take all the stock geniuses with you. I certainly concede they’re in a tough cash crunch. But there’s so many positives, it won’t die. Could change form. Who knows? Definitely not me or you.
Cash flow positive this quarter. Watch for it haters. They’re selling the crap out of high end model 3s. Lots of profit margin on these.
Quoted from Brijam:No, they continue to make investments in factories, distribution centers, charging infrastructure and R&D. They have always said their investments would be 'eye-watering.' They have however recently claimed they will be profitable this year.
That's an unsubstantiated lie.
Another unsubstantiated lie.
Another lie. The I-pace will cost the same or more. The Taycan is expected to cost more. Am I missing these multiple cheaper, superior cars? Citations... or you're just lying again.
Two more lies. Their production rate is on an insane hockey stick. And the fact that you can buy an expensive Model 3 sooner only means that their production is now ready.
Another lie. Tesla isn't selling their cheaper Model 3 yet, so if you want one you have to wait. If you want to buy a loaded Model 3, you can buy one much sooner. Everyone who put a reservation in knew this. Tesla has always done this.
Another lie. They have always planned to increase production quickly, and fully disclosed those very high costs.
That's not what Tesla thinks based on their sales. Some analysts disagree. Everyone agrees they have many avenues to raise capital if they need it.
They are in no danger whatsoever of bankruptcy.Another lie.
Another lie.
You know nothing about what you are speaking.
Picked apart!! Well done.
I would again like to point out that there’s is now an official thread specifically for Tesla trolls. While this is not a pure fanboy thread, if you’re a hater and just want to stir the pot, there’s a thread for that.
Quoted from Outlanes:I want tesla to do well. I think the future is ev, and that fossil fuels aren't sustainable. I want everyone to emulate them and build the infrastructure and advance the tech to a point where this is actually the way we help combat some serious issues.
But this blind faith and belief that tesla is perfect doesn't advance that. It hurts it. We could be SO much further with dealer involvement that it depresses me that we aren't as far as we should be.
That being said if you guys are looking for an echo chamber of approval I understand, I'll leave you to it.
I’m definitely not taking shots at anyone particular. Well, maybe one guy (ahem, rubber). And I’m not the police of this thread. All constructive discussion is interesting to me. And this thread at least has some of that. If it was only Tesla fans (like me) it would get boring in here. But there’s a lot of people saying they “know” some people and they “all hate” their cars. I talk to owners all the time. Literally can’t think of one that hasn’t loved theirs. Sure they have some bugs, but so does my Toyota Highlander. And my former F-150 (couldn’t wait to ditch that thing). I love mine. I drive it every day and it’s like no other car I’ve ever been in. I think people with no inside knowledge shouldn’t be spouting off negativity on topics they don’t know crap about in a generally positive thread. Your last comment was totally appropriate in my opinion.
Just test drove the model 3 for the first time. Great vehicle. I happened to be driving the performance version (I’ll be buying the base model when it arrives). But the things I was most impressed with didn’t have anything to do with speed. It was smooth and elegant and more comfortable than my model S. Don’t get me wrong, I like my S more, but this car is a game changer for the world. I challenge any haters to arrange a test drive. They’re free.
Yeah, I’m starting to agree with the calls for Musk to step back from Tesla. I love that idea of silent director. They need his vision, but his recent antics are definitely hurting an otherwise amazing company.
Glossed over by the media, however, is the incredible sales in August!! Model 3 is amazing.
That’s pretty stunning. Even you haters HAVE to take notice. $1B in sales on the model 3 in August. I just don’t know why you have to hate an American car company success story. It’s weird to me.
Quoted from toyotaboy:heads up for previous owners, replace your keyfobs
https://www.wired.com/story/hackers-steal-tesla-model-s-seconds-key-fob
I think I just got the pin update tonight. Have to decide if the rush is worth the inconvenience. So unlikely anyone would want to steal one because they’re so easy to track. I think anyone with this sophisticated tech would know that about Teslas? I don’t know. Certainly less likely here in Idaho.
And what are they going to do with it? Part it out? I don’t think there’s much of a secondary market for parts as discussed above.
Quoted from pinster68:Just got the call ... my 3 has arrived. Picking up Thursday at 10am. Good times.
Enjoy! What are your specs? You’re gonna love it.
Quoted from Nilroc:Getting it Wrapped and Ceramic Coated this coming Monday!
This car is a riot to drive!
Can't wait for Track Mode and Version 9 software update. The car just keeps getting better and better with OTA updates.
Ota updates are like Christmas morning! New features in your car. So much fun.
Anyone on pinside asking for an apology is pathetic. That said, I figured this would be bad for Musk and Tesla from the minute I heard the tweet. Smelled like stock manipulation at best. Unlike others, I can love Tesla and still recognize erratic behavior of the ceo.
I’m still puzzled why SO much hate for an American startup car company making such enjoyable cars. You guys are an embarrassment. Is there no middle ground here?
And the f-Elon comment was funny! And clever. Surprised I’ve not heard that one before? Its one of those things that seems so obvious once you see it...
Quoted from robertmee:Can't speak for all the other 'haters', but I've been called one, so I'll give you my personal opinion. I don't hate Tesla at all. I very much like the Model S and X and have toyed with buying either. Not a fan of the Model 3 for various reasons. What I 'hate' is the absolute fandom attributed to Elon like he is a messiah of the car world, and that he's some genius operating above all us common folk. I am of the firm opinion that Tesla, the company, would be much better off both short and long term, if Elon was removed as CEO. That's my gripe, and actually contrary to the popular belief that I want Tesla to fail. I want Tesla to succeed, and Elon is hurting that possibility more and more.
Now this is frankly the type of common-sense, rational analysis this discussion is often lacking. I am a huge fan of Tesla the company and cars, but I definitely think Elon has crossed a line and probably needs to step down. He’s better in a private company (spaceX, Boring co) kind of company.
I do believe that the short selling “analysts” and clearly biased, fake articles reporting Tesla’s imminent demise, along with the constant “news” articles about the next “Tesla killer” are as guilty of stock manipulation as Elon. He has a bigger pulpit, I grant you.
PS: stop toying and buy the S. You won’t regret it.
Quoted from jonnyo:Tesla reminds me far too much of the hero worship and cult thinking that pervaded a few ill-fated pinball pre-orders I recall. Also the failed promises, missed dates, blame-shifting, excuse-making and eccentric behavior. The pattern isn't identical but it sure feels awfully familiar.
Except that I’m currently driving what is arguably the best production car ever made.
Quoted from jonnyo:You shouldn't post while driving hahaha.
The cars are pretty good. Very fast and fun to drive.
I'll just leave it at the positive.
Hahah. Respect. It was in autopilot. Jk. I was at home. But I do text and drive more than I should even with autopilot.
Quoted from OnTheSnap:It took me an hour to stick in a 80A 240V circuit into a Tesla home charger. Typically I charge at 15 KWh. With a 115V outlet they max out at <2KWh. It's cheap and easy to get a setup that gets you topped up after a daily commute in <3 hours. The car allows you to tell it when to charge. Most electricity providers have reduced rates after 11pm.
Anyway. - mine is a modelx p100d. Which I constantly floor in ludicrous mode. Nuking my charge and killing my range. It was worth every penny to get the gut wrenching 2.8s 0-60 in a large suv form factor. [quoted image]
Is that a different red? Looks awesome.
Quoted from Eryeal:This is just insane. How can a startup car company around for a few years create a car that is the safest car ever tested - competing with all these other car companies with decades of experiences and billions and billions of dollars into safety R&D trying to get the best safety scores they can? Remember when Volvo use to rely on the fact that they were the safest cars on the road to sell their vehicles? Yet it seems all you hear about are the one or two Tesla crashes and heaven forbid a battery catches on fire or explodes in a major collision - yet hundreds of gas vehicles each day get into accidents and burn to a crisp. Who cares if you hate Elon Musk, think he's a snake-oil salesman, hate Tesla in general, or think they are going to go bankrupt - they just created the safest mass market car on the road, when every single other car company has been trying to do the same thing with all their $$$ and experience. It's nuts. They've got some impressive engineers that do not get enough credit for what they have and are doing.
I agree. People will say we are fan-boys, but the data is definitely on our side. Anyone who disagrees with you on this is just a hater, which is really just the negative version of a fan-boy.
Sweet! I have the same model, and it’s the most enjoyable thing I own. I routinely give test drives and I love doing it.
Quoted from oktobernv:Got my Model S P100D on Saturday.
It's fantastic!!! Love it.
And... Oh....
It's STUPID Fast... Unreal.
Scary almost....
Wow!!
Congrats. I’ll never go back.
Quoted from angus:Congrats! Love my S P100D. Can't wait for a pick-up to be available.
I agree. I want the pickup. I hope they don’t make it all Jetsons looking. Pretty sure that will flop. They need to make it rugged looking and powerful to have any hope of competing against Ford and Chevy.
Quoted from toyotaboy:this is why Elon is awesome
Amazing. I don’t love everything he does, but that’s vision. And capitalism all in one.
Quoted from Luckydogg420:Oh, that’s not surprising at all. It takes a special breed of asshole to think that’s a good idea, kinda like these guys that “roll coal” with their diesel trucks
“Special breed”...
Translation: Inbred. 
Quoted from pinballrockstar:Korean piece of crap
She totaled that shitbox lol.
My damage:
Tailgate is slightly bent and light bumper damage..[quoted image][quoted image]
Doesn’t look bad at all. Glad you’re safe.
I just got word my standard plus white is on its way! Should be here tomorrow or Thursday. Got the white interior for the wife. I have an S I don’t think I could ever give up, but can’t wait to drive this. Has the phone “key” bugginess been worked out? My wife is very low tech. Things just have to “work” the first time. I can’t afford to have her hating on this car...
Quoted from SkillShot:Phone key has never been an issue for me at all. iphone
Thanks for the feedback. I didn’t buy autopilot this time. Waiting patiently. Will buy if/when it’s ready.
Wow. What a great car! Had to reboot my computer to get the radio to work (not sure why) but so nice. The white leather is crazy cool.
Quoted from VolunteerPin:The stopped or very slow car up ahead is my biggest gripe with the EAP on my ‘15 P90D. It does not “see” far enough down the road to anticipate needing to slow or stop. The issue is when you are on a congested highway but have open areas where you’re going 75mph and then way up ahead there is very slow or stopped traffic and there is nobody really in front of you at the moment.
I always feel like if I did not start slowing myself, the car would simply ram into traffic ahead or at the very least required a VERY hard braking to avoid collision.
I like it but don’t t trust it. Granted, newer tech in newer cars but I’ll wait to upgrade until it is proven to be extremely reliable and can “see” better and further down the road.
It does tend to stop hard in that situation. I wish it would be more gradual, but it’s never missed, even in the situation you described. I’ve waited with my foot hovering over the brake. It always chickens out.
Quoted from frolic:just hope the guy behind you is paying attention. That would be my bigger concern.
Great point. I usually check before I’m running these kind of tests.
Hahaha. I love picking any given point in time and smarting off about it. Either highs or lows. Seems silly
Quoted from Pinless:I’ll never understand why people revel in bashing a company that’s changing the future in so many different areas while employing thousand of Americans.
Agree 100%. Short sellers or trolls.
Quoted from Pinless:Gas is heading up to $3-$4 per gallon again. Hopefully it helps drive the demand for electric cars.
I literally hope gas goes to $5 per gallon. The world will be singing a different tune.
Quoted from rubberducks:It's astonishing that people actually believe this.
Facts?
Quoted from MrBally:Just now in San Diego
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Keep going!! The only thing that’s gonna save the environment is the market economy. Haters like the trolls on this thread will only change when it hits them in the paycheck. Remember when NOBODY was buying suvs or big trucks a few years back? Bring back those expensive gas days....
Quoted from Procrastinator:What a shortsighted, cringey outlook. I don’t have an opinion one way or another on Tesla, other than it sounds semi-appealing, but some of the lame commentary by fanboys repels more people than it attracts.
High gas prices cause a lot of things, and the largest group it effects is poor people. You think the minimum wage guy with a 20 year old truck is just going to pop for a new electric car because gas prices rise? Pfft, think again.
I hope Tesla is successful, and that they become a major player in auto manufacturing, but wishing hardship on other consumers is lame and pretty pathetic in my opinion.
I’m for a transition away from fossil fuels in general. Climate denier or tree hugger, there’s little to debate about the mess fossil fuels are making of the world via pollution or geopolitical turmoil, etc. I don’t wish anyone harm. It’s a transition we have to make eventually and there will be a pinch on the economy sometime. We are just procrastinating the eventual pain.
No offense to you or anyone who agrees with you, but we are in need of a paradigm shift. That poor person who drives his old truck to work should consider getting a scooter and not lugging a ton of sheet metal everywhere he goes. Now I know you’ll come back with the example of a guy that needs to move a bed full of whatever for his work. I’m not talking about that guy. Look at the freeways and see how many GIANT vehicles are being used to cart one tiny human from place to place. It’s absurd. We are probably using 5-10% of the fuel to move people or goods (just an estimate). The rest is used to move the vehicle. Change the vehicle to be something that is just enough to move a person. Just my perspective. I just think the market will need to push us in the right direction, and I think fossil fuels happen to be artificially cheap right now because so many long term costs (health, environment, war) aren’t factored directly into the price of gas.
Just my opinion. I hope it’s not cringy with further explanation. If it is still, I guess we will just disagree.
I’m on a bit of a roll now. Sorry.
You mentioned my viewpoint was shortsighted. If anything is shortsighted, it’s the minimum wage guy spending a ton of money on repairs and maintainence and gas for his twenty year old truck. I’ve long held the belief that our “car-centric” society keeps poor people poor. Just about the time we get our last payment made we sell or junk a car and get another money pit. Any income that could have been saved for the future, we consider it expendable and “upgrade” our next car purchase.
If the poor truck guy took the longer view, he’d abandon the 20 year old truck. Take the short term pain, buy a more reliable, practical means of getting to work, and save the excess for a rainy day. But, at least in America, we just continue to waste money on way more vehicle than we need.
Sorry. Rant over. I welcome all viewpoints on this.
I also had an X and traded it for an S. I don’t miss it. The falcon doors were just too “hey look at me” for my wife and I. But it was a great car.
I have two as well. Why are you weirdos such haters? It cracks me up. American car company giving jobs to Americans. So the ceo is a weirdo. These are by far the best cars I’ve ever driven. Do you actually like gas or something? Are you Russian bots spreading FUD? What’s your motivation?
Quoted from DruTheFu:So Tesla gets/got subsidies.....did any other auto manufacturers or oil corporations receive any in their existence?
Umm. All of them. How about the “gas guzzler tax credit” I got when I bought a new f-150 through my business. Probably saved me $20k in taxes on ONE VEHICLE! Makes $7000 look pathetic, no?
How about the write-off for every stupid real estate agent driving a hummer H2 (sorry, that was too specific, but for some reason that what agents do here, buy an H2 and wrap it)? The regular auto dealers have taken home WAY more in tax subsidies over the past century.
Please. I know I can’t call names, but this is idiotic that you guys think Tesla has gotten special treatment.
How about the subsidies and sweetheart deals that have been given to oil companies for decades. If their gas hadn’t been so artificially cheap, the car companies producing autos that use that subsidized fuel would never have sold so many.
I’m sorry, but not sorry. Economics is in my blood, and the “crony capitalism” argument is a complete fail for the anti-Tesla trolls. Just stop. Come up with a different argument against Tesla and never bring this one up again.
Quoted from rplante:Don't take it personally boys.
My post in regard to the 1.5 billion dollars paid by American taxpayers was in response to those who seem befuddled by why anyone would be critical of Tesla. The other examples you provided are, of course, legitimate as well and I'm against those too. Tesla is indeed the beneficiary of crony capitalism and if they were thriving in the free market I would have no such objections but since I'm being forced to pay the bill I have every reason to question them and their business practices.
Definition:
"Crony capitalism is an economy in which businesses thrive not as a result of risk, but rather as a return on money amassed through a nexus between a business class and the political class."
We'll see how well they do once the subsides and cash hand outs finally end. I hope it was a good investment for the taxpayers but I have grave reservations this is the case.
Enough said. I don't want to be accused of trolling, that was not my intent.
Fair. Basically saying all modern cars are a result of crony capitalism. I think based on the bailouts, etc. we can agree on this. I don’t like it either.
I’m just sick of us subsidizing and sending money to buy oil from nations that want us dead. The sooner the oil economy is over the better. Look at how Venezuela is crumbling now that their oil money has dried up. A lot of evil empires will be powerless when they lose their funding from the world’s energy needs.
Quoted from MrBally:Elon may soon send an email to all Tesla vehicle owners suggesting they buy at least one additional Tesla vehicle for one they already own.
No word on if he bought a pocket watch to swing in front of everyone for a video attached to the email.
Just did! Love both. Just try one, it’s better than hypnosis.
Quoted from mcluvin:I had read an article about a guy who put 200k miles on a Tesla and he had detailed his repair costs. The screen/console had failed and cost $2k to replace. It's not really silly. I don't expect the engine or transmission on a Honda to just fail. I've never had one fail and I've owned quite a few.
I'd never own a BMW. I've heard enough horror stories about reliability. I have owned a couple of VW TDIs. I won't do that again. The engine (1.9 ALH diesel) was bulletproof with a few mods. The rest of it was not.
It’s weird. My screen “failed” (got a light yellow bar down one side) and they replaced it free. Maybe out of warranty. I’d actually like to read that article. Was there actually a $700 brake replacement? I practically never put my foot on the brake pedal.
Quoted from mcluvin:Here you go. Also, note the $515 door handle replacement. I want EV to succeed, but I'm not paying those prices and I want to be able to fix it myself if possible.
https://insideevs.com/news/351491/tesla-long-term-cost-ownership-analysis/
Thanks for the link. I do wish they would be more diy friendly (but what can you expect, we are pinball people after all).
Quoted from toyotaboy:no, the new tesla roadster starts at $200k. the porsche taycan starts at $151k. comparing apples to apples.
Looks and performs pretty much like my model S (with two less doors). Costs a lot more. I can’t drift tho (as far as I know, never tried)
Quoted from pninja005:I own other sports cars (911, RS...). Model 3 would only be for winter months but since I'm used to "fast" cars performance seems the obvious. On the other hand since it's only for winter months usage, SR+ might do the trick. That's why I'm asking real owners
Get the performance then. You probably can afford it and you don’t want it to feel slow compared..
Quoted from Davidus56:Save yourself a lot of headaches and buy a Taycan or Rivian
Hahahahahaha
Quoted from Pinless:750hp
Tank turn
0-60 in 3 seconds
400+ mile range
42” water fording capability
Deposit has been placed
Love it, even as a Tesla fan. Couple legit questions: cost? Long distance charging network? Charge speed?
But I’m all seriousness, it looks awesome. I’m stunned, gmc can’t make a competitive electric sedan but they go straight to the biggest guzzler of all times? Bold.
Quoted from Pinless:Starts around $69k and that’s all the pricing info available currently.
They haven’t mentioned much about charging speed or network. I have those same questions. With 400 miles of range, 99% of our charging will be at home.
70k for that machine is a great deal imho. My f150 a couple years ago was over 50k
Quoted from lurch:Had a model S as a loaner for the past week. Not sure i can go back to my Ram. This thing is stupid fast and just awesome. How does the 3 stack up against the S? Other than size?
The 3 is SO fun to drive. I have an S (p100d) and my wife has the most basic 3 out. Hers is almost as fun to drive!!
Hope this isn’t a party foul but if anyone wants to use my code for 1000 miles of supercharging, I’d appreciate it if you don’t already have one.
Quoted from Nilroc:With Tesla Stock shooting to the Moon and the stock splitting at the end of the month. I just may be able to afford the new Roadster when it finally comes out in 2022.
Do we have to wait that long?!! I’m dying to get a roadster 2.0!
Quoted from Nilroc:As Elon says first Cybertruck and Semi and for dessert the Roadster 2.0
Life is short and unpredictable. I eat dessert first.
Quoted from Crumbalimb:Maybe a Tesla pinball machine is needed.I can see the modal 3 drag racing all the super sport cars and blowing them out or the water.And as you go through driving all their cars in different modes the wizard mode you get to drive the roadster. Hmm, OK maybe the world of pinball is not ready for that game yet.But our kids are going to love it.:}
I actually love that idea! I’d guess Elon would give away the license for marketing.
Quoted from Darscot:This whole thing people do these day that they mix and match the words fact and opinion is so weird. It's not my opinion that the beta testers are selected at random. As I explained I was selected based on a completely arbitrary moment in time combined with the fact that a Tesla representative lied or made an error when communicating with me. My selection was for all intents and purposes random. That is not opinion, that is fact. You can call me a liar and just ignore that fact because it doesn't align with what you want to believe. You can believe anything you want, but just because you believe it doesn't magically make it a fact. Also just because a fact doesn't align with your beliefs doesn't make it an opinion.
Just piping in as you keep dictating fact. But you only have one fact. It’s your situation. You keep extrapolating that all the others are random like you. You literally have NO idea if that is fact. Just be careful about your assignment of fact.
Quoted from Darscot:At this stage the software is not ready for an external beta on public streets. A professional driver should be at the wheel and a test engineer as a copilot. When I took the self driving taxis in Vegas and that was the set up they used. At a minimum the car should be labeled externally like any new driver so other drivers are aware. Actually it should meet all the requirements of any new driver, limited hours and passengers. I'm just saying they should use a little common sense.
I do kind of agree the cars should be labeled so others can see. Like a student driver. I worry more about their reactions.
I agree nobody should be making videos, but if they’re doing what they’re supposed to (paying attention, keeping hands on the wheel, etc) I cant see its any worse than cruise control. I have to pop out of autopilot sometimes and it’s not particularly dangerous. The random brake checks make me worry about cars behind me though.
I think that this is a problem even in the existing software. Similar to my Toyota Highlander. I guess my point is, this isn’t a big leap in danger. And I think the long term gain in safety from advancing this tech will more than pay back the short term dangers. I know that’s not a popular viewpoint but I think sometimes you have to play the math (in lives) for the long game (not to get political but it also matches up with my philosophy about covid, but I won’t venture into that topic).
Quoted from smokinhos:Where they dumping the batteries when they aren't good anymore? How's the power grid when the Govt and tesla expect everyone to have an EV in their garage. Whats the true environmental footprint of these cars and true cost of ownership? Everyone seems to pretend that a 40k car for 10 yrs is not still 4k a year. That electricity is free, and that batteries from these cars just disappear after they aren't effective. That these cars are built by unicorns in space so no impact by the precious metal mining. Teslas aren't special anymore, every soccer mom and influencer has one. Not ready to jump on the EV band wagon.. but the rest of you can save the world one tesla at a time. Totally uninformed.
This post was comical. I’m assuming your last sentence was referring to yourself? Not sure where you got your info. But it’s not factual.
Quoted from gandamack:I see that the MSRP on the Model 3 has come down. Now possible to get the base model RWD Model 3 for around $35,000.
I was hoping to get some type of feedback from those of you who have owned a Tesla. My buddy showed me his new Model 3 the other night and I do find that what you get for $35,000 is impressive. But, is there a still an issue with build quality with Tesla cars? Any information would be appreciated because I am thinking about getting one.
Absolutely loved mine. Went to a model y to get a little taller and more cargo, but other than that, they’re essentially the same. Honestly, I’m a Tesla fan. I’ve had each model and loved them all. For 35k it’s an unbelievable deal.
Quoted from Darscot:I have had a M3 since launch in Canada and it has been a good car. That being said most of what makes it great is it being an EV. The things I hate most about it are because its a Tesla. The cars functionality and features have taken major steps backwards. When I first got it, it was a dream in rush hour highway driving. The radar did such a great job of maintaining space, even in the dark or rain. Now, its honestly laughable, the vision system is terrible. The windshield wipers are the worst I have ever experienced in a car, the auto headlights are useless and Tesla forces these on you. The constant changing UI exagerates the stupidity of not having proper controls is. I will stick to EVs for life but Tesla would need to make serious changes before I would go back to them.
That’s interesting because in all things current teslas are light years ahead of other EV (and frankly gas) cars. I have a F-150 Lightning and it’s literally worse in every way compared to my recent edition model y.
I agree, early on their wipers were terrible. Way better now. Headlights are working perfectly.
I had a very early model 3 but only kept it for a year and got a model y. So I didn’t have it long enough to really remember any defects.
Quoted from galore2112:I had a 2019 Model 3P. If I wanted another Model 3, I’d wait until they update it. Its current tech is fairly stale and in my opinion not competitive anymore. The next version due 2024 will have much better technology.
Also, be prepared to get significantly less range than they advertise.
Tesla in general takes marketing BS to another level. It’s way more extreme than other manufacturers. They toot their horn like no other.
If you get a Tesla, be aware that their range, cost savings and self driving abilities are as real as the picture that McDonald’s uses to advertise their Big Mac.
All of these things have been pretty solid for me. YMMV. Literally.
Quoted from cliff_clavin:I would wait until the new 2024 model 3 performance is released. Specs have not yet been released but there are rumours that it will be a sub 3 second car in the 0-60......Incredible performance given the cost.....
Tesla's are far from perfect but if they fit your lifestyle, they are a blast to drive.....
I wonder if these recent price cuts will go away when they do the updates? I just ordered a new plaid because they’re SO much cheaper than the p100d I sold last year. I heard rumor they’re updating those too, but I didn’t want to lose out on these prices by waiting.
Quoted from altan:I don’t want this to be a dump on f150 but could you share some trouble areas?
Btw, I got a MY in April and it’s great.
Well, at least partially that I’ve realized I’m not a big truck guy. But the ui and the driver assist features are pure garbage compared to Tesla. To turn on the freaking AC is like ten clicks. They have this dumb dial that basically makes everything harder to turn on.
It’s not a bad overall package. I’m bitter also as I splurged for the platinum but due to part shortages I didn’t get a lot of the perks. But the price tag didn’t come down. They finally added back my heated steering wheel almost a year later.
Would the all the ICE fanboys please jump in quickly and tell that happy buyer why he’s stupid?!! Its been minutes already…
Quoted from MrBally:I don’t tell others how to spend their money. I also don't like when others tell me how to spend mine.
[quoted image]
And yet you’re here in a “who’s in on a model 3 thread”.
I kid, I kid.
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