V3 really only benefits long range Model 3s right now, I think. I think short range is capped at 150 kwh, and S / X are around the same.

What version of Tesla do you have?

I keep having people who know me tell me I'm sacrificing and justifying it due to all the issues charging, but I don't see any of it as a sacrifice. I have eaten every stop I've had to make, and had the car tell me it was ready to drive before the fast food was handed to me. I'm sure at some point I'll have an experience that isn't as good, but I haven't found it yet.

What in the world are you talking about? Like, I seriously don't understand what your point here is, as there is no where other than maybe France where the majority of non-renewable energy is produced by nuclear. And even if it was, it depends on your goal. If you're arguing about planet warming gases, no - nuclear doesn't produce those. If you're worried about meltdown, okay, but that's a super confined issue. Otherwise, I don't get it.

Most cars charge overnight currently. Even if you're charging on a network of mostly coal, those plans have to idle at rates high enough they are producing more electricity than needed overnight, so you're using a resource that otherwise wouldn't be used for no additional environmental impact. Many areas *are* using wind, and those areas can produce that wind overnight.

Ahhhhhhhhhh, now I get it! Hahaha, yeah, Toyota is going to pave the electric future, the company who keeps proclaiming hydrogen is the future. I won't go into the many reasons that this is pure insanity for mobile technology, but... no.

Sorry to be so downer, Tesla is a good looking fast car. Rapidly developing technology will ensure these cars will never be Classics. As with all electronic devices they quickly become outdated. I see electric vehicles replacing 20-30% of the Market in the next 20 years, much of this will be mandated through regulations if sympathetic Parties are in power. Huge, but replacing IC vehicles? Won't happen, gas/diesel has become very efficient, with hybrids offering dual and triple fuel alternatives.
Yes, there are many ways to produce electricity, but coming from a Technology Company I have witnessed lofty dreams languish while the expedient endures.

Gas pumps don't work in power outages. Same problem for yah there. Also, my house happens to have 15KW of solar, 3 powerwalls. I can charge my cars off the grid. In Armageddon maybe I'm screwed if someone sees I still have power and drivable cars. Besides a couple of shotguns, haven't solved that issue yet.

Yah - I had a Porsche Macan GTS before tesla. Runs off premium. There are cheaper hybrid cars. Absolutely. But the task of getting gas does suck. Some stations are nice. Some are dirty, with begging bums. F' that. The there was the f'ing oil changes. $70 at jiffy lube. Or a mess at home. F' that. Then there is the service stuff. The required, and often expensive 15K, 25K. F' that. It's all gone. And it means something to me.

I get range anxiety for electrics. I had it. My wife had it. Then you own one for a while and realize it's a bullshit concern (if it's a Tesla. Other networks aren't there. And it's fair to criticize that). SC's are smartly everywhere. You wake up with 370 mi range. Granted if you live in a super remote place with huge amounts of daily driving, don't get an electric. For the 99% of us, living in society, they are amazing.

What I am speaking of is nuclear waste is super nasty, there are already huge amounts of it piling up with no where to go, and until there is we should not add another load. In California one good flood and a defunct Reactor near the beach along with millions of pounds of waste would shut down a quarter of the State.
This is in response to a phrase I hear often," Electric cars run on clean energy". Some do.
Any plan to wholesale replace IC cars with electric would be catastrophic on the power grid and require a lot more fuel rod reactors to be built. Nothing else will do it.

Actually, modern nuclear power plants are awesome. And should some day dominate over other renewable sources like solar and wind. There is a lot of fear because of the messed up history. TerraPower (Bill Gates) designed a new reactor that they are trying to build now. It runs off the waste from all the old reactors. It's safe by design, can't melt down. https://terrapower.com/productservices/twr

The point is, electric cars run off an evolving energy source. Some might be coal now, nuclear, renewable. It's getting better and better every year. Yay.

Also interesting reading since it's a common discussion of EV vs ICE. https://cleantechnica.com/2020/01/12/is-it-true-that-a-tesla-creates-more-pollution-than-a-conventional-car/

Growing I’d hear cars of the future would run on a small onboard nuclear reactor. It hasn’t happened yet. Darn science fiction for getting my hopes up.

That is pretty hilarious. Build quality is cheap .... lol....tell you what, had my 3 parked next to my bosses 100k Jaguar....take a pick who took away the build quality price.

You know, huh. Look, I'd totally trust your experience on EM pinball machines. But Tesla, EVs in general, nuclear power... you're talking out of your ass.

I believe that YOU actually believe that. But your armchair opinion is dangerously wrong. Can you back it up with actual science? No, you can't.

Our government (particularly the one in charge) is choosing where our power comes from, not the power companies. There are nations in europe that are either 100% solar/wind driven, or getting real close. Think about where your gas comes from. We use diesel (or that awful nuclear stuff) to drive giant ships across the ocean to transport crude oil to processing plants. Those plants use electricity to convert oil to gasoline.. Then trucks once again have to use more gasoline to transport that fuel to local gas stations (that use electricity to power all the lights / fridges inside the snack bar because that's the only way to make money because there's not enough money to be made off fuel unless you're the tax collector).

OR! get this, you could simply have electric fillup stations that charge a small fee (like Com-ed does) that transport electricity (all automated, and pretty efficiently) or you could have stations completely off the grid using solar and wind turbines.

......what if climate change is a hoax, and we make the world a better place for no reason at all.

In an effort to inject a bit of fun into this, here is a link to a video I watched recently. I was amazed by what was in this army ration, and even more amazed you would heat your Mr. Noodle with what is essentially a mini nuclear reactor...

So yes we probably could have nuclear reactors powering our cars, it would just be pretty stupid with the other tech we have available. Heck even heating your soup with one seems pretty sketchy

True about wide spread power outages. However, I can recall many times in the past when my house didn't have power but others did. Hurricane Ike was the worst. Didn't have power for two weeks. Businesses in the area had power with a few days after storm and so did my work across town. Those times are pretty rare though. It would be nice to have an extra excuse not to go to work lol.

I would have huge range anxiety. I already get anxious when the needle gets way down on empty and there are gas stations everywhere. Maybe I am not looking hard enough but I rarely see charging stations in my area. I do see a ton of Tesla's on the road, though. I imagine with long ranges most people just charge at home and don't need extra stations.

There is a house in my neighborhood with a roof full of solar panels. I cannot imagine that being cheap to install or cheap to deal with when new roof is needed. I would love to knock out my electric bill but it's not that expensive even in the hot summers. My water bill is the killer. They tack on all kinds of taxes for flood control but you rarely see any work done and flooding just gets worse.

$65 a month too much to replace a chunk of your electric bill? In fact if you subscribe to one of the systems below and live in a place like TX probably you end up with more money per month. Add a power wall and you have your own gas station even if the grid is down.

Ever been in a disaster? Gas is gone from lines in days. It’s a false sense of security.

Energy independence is awesome. Yah using electricity and getting off gas is an adjustment. But it’s better in every way, except long distance travel. And Tesla has already made that work.

Also note that Tesla is converting charging stations over time to solar and battery. So even in a disaster or power outage it’ll be possible to charge at home or long distance.

If you have the itch, try the car while you still have an ICE. Won’t take long to realize what life is like without putting gas in a car.

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Good news, you'll soon be able to directly purchase and receive service on Tesla vehicles in Michigan.

The new vehicle titles will be from other states and then you'll transfer to a Michigan title. That will likely be resolved in another year or three.

A gear heads 1 year review.

The good and bad

FYI: Here is a map of all the DC fast-chargers in your area.
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An acquaintance of mine is heading into military service in a few months and will likely be selling his Model 3 LEMUR (Mid-range). Any ideas as to market value? It's black on black with aero wheels and premium interior. No FSD. Mileage is currently 35K+, so will likely be around 40K miles at time of sale. Any thoughts as to private party pricing/value?

Maybe check auto trader or a Tesla forum?

I have to admit, I was actually fooled by this up until he explained the “Trident ingot ration heater”. Brilliant video!

I had the privilege last night & took a ride in a Tesla. I’ve never sat/rode in one before..The guy asks me what the fastest car I’ve ever driven/rode in. I think for a moment, and my dads 62 impala came to mind. He says ‘you’re not afraid of a lil speed?’ I said no. So we’re at a complete stop, and he hammers on the petal..holy shit, I get tossed back in my seat, and we’re doing 70 miles in no time! I was very impressed! I can really respect the technology, and what the car/machine is. I just met this guy, and we shook hands, I gave him a deposit for a game on my wish list that he had..finding a great game, and riding in a Tesla for the first time..it was a cool night..

I admit it had me fooled too. I just sort of want it to be true. The mix of food with a crazy irresponsible heating device. Military grade chocolate. It needs to be a thing!

If you aren't using it for long term travel, I have found range anxiety to be bullshit on the whole. The Leaf, with it's 58ish miles of range in the winter knows it has however many miles, and how often do I drive that far in a day anyway? Never.

Of the people I know who have bought electrics since me, five have gotten Leafs. None of them have range anxiety. And all of them charge on wall outlets.

Range anxiety is a way to play into people's fears who want excuses to not get an electric car already because it's different. It's not a real world concern.

Yeah, I'm a fan of nukes too, actually. I worked with someone whose father was a safety inspector for them, and I questioned how it was done, and he explained what caused Chernobyl - essentially a design that was uniquely stupid - and 3 Mile Island and how modern systems couldn't have that happen again. Those issues were portrayed really scary, but when all is said and done I'd much rather live near a nuke plant than a coal plant where cancer rates are sky high.

If I'm not mistaken, "modern" S and X design still use the older battery design which caps them at under 150KWH. I may be wrong, I have a LR AWD too, it can charge stupid fast.

If you want to solve this, a tip - spend a few weeks writing down how far you go. I did this weekly before we got our first Leaf because I was certain 84 miles (and like, 50ish in winter) wouldn't be enough for us. I was surprised to discover I pretty much never did more than 40 at a time. We got a Leaf, loved it so much we got a fast charger (so if we drove 40, we could add 30 back in an hour and use it to go out at night because damn did it make my Sentra feel like a piece of garbage). Starting every morning with 100% charge is amazing.

Then, if you can get a Tesla, it's even rarer to ever think about it. My car in the absolute worst case scenario gets about 200 miles of range (that is in the winter, heat blasting, in snow, wheels / traction control spinning, slow going). When it's that cold, it also charges slower. I'm 16 months in now, and have almost exclusively used a wall charger because it's just not necessary to do more. I have never once worried about range with it from charging at home.

Along with that, since I'm never charging in public, it removes the layer of stress that you're talking about when you think about getting gas - or oil changes. I never have to think when I'm out oh crap, I don't have enough gas, I better grab some but if I do I'll be late because I didn't realize how little I had. Full tank - or close to it with the slow charging I generally do - every morning. No worries.

And the Tesla makes the Leaf feel like it's super old and slow. We're hoping to upgrade to a Y for it in the not too distant future.

That's funny, the first time I ever rode in one was at APB Pinball, I was there before the Pinball Life Explosion and I had something to drop off, and someone inside said that they'd help me grab it. As we were walking out, I said I parked near this sweet Tesla, and he said it was his. I asked if I could sit in it as at this point, I hadn't been in one but had pre-ordered the 3 based on the Leaf experience. He said no, I needed to go for a ride.

So he launched me in his P100D a couple times, and yeah, sold. I texted my wife and said how it was amazing and she asked if we were on the pre-order list, and thus it was agreed that my pre-order would turn into a car.

My electric bill is on average around $150 a month. Weather gets pretty hot in summer but mild rest of year. Doubt solar would do much for me compared to how expensive it would be. I would love to replace the windows in my house as well to improve efficiency and all that. Plenty of other things I could do such as new ac/furnace or radiant barrier. Same issue, expensive. I would love to drive a Tesla just to check it out. No itch at all to get one. If I'm spending that much on a car, I'm getting something more exciting to own. I just like car stuff and Tesla is an interesting company. They seem to struggle to produce cars and make money yet their stock is through the roof. Yet they somehow built up a strong brand name and their stock is through the roof even though they just announced the ugliest vehicle ever seen by man. Very interesting.

If you define exciting by speed and handling; how would a Performance Model 3 not fit that bill? It is literally faster than almost every exotic car ever made. If you define exciting by big sounds and super complex engines with built in unreliability paired with massive repair/maintenance bills... then yes a M3 would be "sucky" from that perspective. I just goes, and goes fast. How lame is that?

And rather than "assuming" Solar "would not do much for you" why not actually have a few companies come by and check it out? I live waaay further north than you, and get less sun, and solar with batter backup will still make sense for us in a few years likely. Costs continue to come down, performance goes up.

Solar "may not be right for you" in that it may not be the best way to spend your money that is fair. But just shrugging your shoulders and not looking into it (assuming it will not work) seems like a recipe for failure. Reading your posts it sounds like you may have a glass half empty sort of view. If that sort of view is not enhancing your life, then only you can reflect on that and think if you want to try changing.

There is a reason solar and wind plants are springing up worldwide; it is cheaper than building new old school power plants.

Cheaper even than *operating* existing coal, natural gas, and nuke plants. Including storage now.

That's not the consumer end, but the $65 / month is the price to put it on your roof. It would then generate like $75 / month in electricity. Tesla's solar program is super compelling. If it doesn't, you can have them take it off.

I live in Wisconsin where Tesla doesn't sell solar. I put it on my roof and it will be paid off in like ten years with a tree blocking it. Once that tree disappears, which it's on the hit list to be torn down, it'll be like six. I know three other people on my block looking to do it now. If I had taken a loan for the system, it would generate more per month than the loan price.

Joe Rogan and John Carmack like their Tesla's more than their other cars. Carmack notes that his older Tessarossa had the higher end power slightly more, but it had to be used in extremely particular circumstances to get that power, while the Tesla calculates grip at the stop signs all the time and has better instant power that is usable in daily driving.

Here's a shorter clip of them both glowing about them:

I wasn't a car fan before this, but I've long been a fan of roller coasters. It turns out my slow Tesla launches at the same speed and same general forces as some of the original launched rides like this:

And it does that at every red light if I want. And mine is not the performance model, and it is equal in speed to that ride. With a speed boost, I could be half a second faster than that ride. A P100D launches 0-60 in the same amount of time that this thing does that part of it's speed (it eventually gets up to 120, but I can't do 120 on streets around here...):

Maybe that's not too exciting for everyone, but I like it

This site should give you a price range

https://onlyusedtesla.com/

That has some completed sales, so that helps, thanks. My other comps are a 2018 Performance with 5K miles went for $49K, and a LR with 6K miles went for $40K on ebay. Autotrader listings aren't too helpful due to lack of completed sale info.

Wow, I haven't seen this site before, but this is fascinating. A Model 3, LR AWD car with FSD just was marked as sold for $47,900 with 26,000+ miles. This is what I'm at, although slightly higher mileage on this one than mine.

Based on what I paid, and subtracting the tax credit, if I'm remembering right, I paid $56,000 for my car (I think it was $51 base, $5k autopilot). I then paid $2k for FSD during the sale, so I'm $56k into the car, minus a $7500 tax rebate.

So, if I was to sell it right now, I would have "lost" $600 for owning the car for 16 months?! Or 1.2%?

Isn't BMW like a 20% decrease per year for the first two years?

I had thought it would hold it's value well, but don't really care too much because it's not going anywhere, but those numbers are straight up shocking.

It’s a really nice site. It makes it easy to filter down to exactly which Tesla you’re looking for. It’s fun to window shop.

Tesla's are not complex? Hard to think of a more high tech car. I'm willing to guess a lot of shops probably will not work on them and heard stories that it can be hard to get parts. I don't know about BMW's (never owned one) but all the cars I have owned in the past 20 years needed very little service. It's a pain when something breaks but that's true with anything.

I would definitely rather own a M3 than a Model 3 reliability concerns aside. No way you could tell me the Model 3 looks or sounds more exciting. Numbers on paper are great but there is more to it than that. It's no different than pinball. I like/dislike different pins for different reasons. Just because one has "deep" rules and newer doesn't make it better than an older simpler game.

If solar makes sense financially without government subsidies, then they will catch on. You are right, I have not invested hours researching the whole solar thing. I just know there is a lot of money involved getting lots of equipment and getting electrical work done. Idea is that it will pay for itself at some point but hard to know because every situation is different. I see no recipe for disaster by not jumping off the solar power cliff. Something like that is not going to "enhance" my life. That just sounds weird.

Yeah, but high tech doesn't mean complex. They have a fraction of the amount of parts that can go wrong, and their parts are rated for ridiculous lifespans.

Tesla doesn't send their parts to other groups, so sure. But, true story - I had an issue with my car, so I called them. While I was on the phone, while I was driving, Tesla had a service technician log into my car and diagnose the problem immediately, which they could fix with a software push.

My Nissan Leaf has a problem. I took it in. They told me it would be five hours. I sat and waited. They replaced a sensor for $600. The sensor did not fix the problem. They told me they could replace my computer for $1500 next, but they weren't sure if it would solve the issue either, and it might be the wiring harness for another $2000.

I paid $7000 or something for the Leaf. Putting $3100 in it to not know what will fix the problem is a waste of my time and money.

The one time I had to have Tesla actually service my car, they arrived at my house and did it in the driveway while I worked at home. I'd rather have that "shop" than some around town one.

I mean, that's fine, but the majority of people that are looking for something "exciting", I think people would generally pick a faster car than one that looks cooler and is loud. But hey, maybe that's just me.

Did you know Target is one of the largest operators of solar power in the world? They almost never publicize it because they aren't doing it for the environment or subsidies of whatever, but because of the extreme cost savings they provide:

https://corporate.target.com/article/2019/11/500-solar-installations

Again, for basically nothing, you can rent a system from Tesla on your roof that generates more power than it costs to rent every single month. They pay for it all. You pay them $XX a month and they generate $XX+$YY of electricity every month. They won't install it if they won't save you money, because if you opt to not keep it, it doesn't make them money.

Trust me, it's coming quick.

I have a performance model 3. Range is 499 km or roughly 300 miles. What Tesla gets 375 mile range? Model s?

I love my model 3 but those in very cold climates should be aware. In extreme cold, say -30 , the battery loses a fair bit of range. Not a huge deal as we only get that cold for a week or two every winter but keep that in mind if you live in a very cold climate.

Model 3 is dominating !
https://cleantechnica.com/2020/01/18/tesla-model-3-dominates-us-premium-class-small-midsize-car-market-24-of-2019-sales/

Model 3 is pretty ugly from certain angles. I’ve driven cars up to 798rwhp. Owned a big single turbo Supra, high hp mitsus and a stock STI. Driven everything shy of hyper cars. The Model 3 Performance is the best bang for the buck out there, by far. Even Doug is saying it which really surprised me.

Solar roofs can't buy advertising like this. Happened a few weeks ago a couple doors down from my sister in San Diego. While not a total loss, house is uninhabitable until reconstructed.
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I hear bad electrical wiring, faulty appliances, gas leaks, dry christmas trees can cause house fires too.

I've heard that too. This was a solar panel fire. Maybe it was bad clearcoat on the panels.

or maybe because it was California (where it's notorious to find many unlicensed contractors that don't know what they're doing) that something wasn't connected within code.

Aren't Tesla solar roofs only installed by Gigafactory-trained installation crews that are either company employees or directly contracted by Tesla?

I've also had two supras, a bmw mcoupe, lotus elise, evo x, and now a c7 z06... i also own a model 3 AWD and love it. My z06, while an insanely fast tiger that screams noise at the world and pushes corners hard... it hates anything under 50 degrees and gets way more attention on the road than I want.

Between the two I am extremely satisfied. The model 3 has been the best sedan I have ever owned... oh and Netflix while I am waiting for whatever sure is a nice feature.

Cheers to Tesla investors who were smart enough to buy in since the Cybertruck reveal. Retirement is going to come a bit sooner.

I’ve always suggested a c5 z06 to anyone who will listen. Sure it’s lacking some amenities now but still such a value. I can’t wait for the all electric options we are going to see ... everyone will be ten years catching up but at some point that electric M, GTI, C9, ...mmmmmm

That's not a Tesla solar roof.

I know that new tech is really scary to you, so you like to spread stuff about it, but that is clearly solar panels, and almost definitely not Tesla ones as Tesla installs theirs without roof spacing usually. I question your motives in sharing when you wrongly identify a product.

You do not know that new tech is really scary to me. I sell and use it and have sold it for over thirty years.

When did I say that was a Tesla solar roof?

That's what I inferred, after all this is a tesla thread and they do make solar tiles

Many recent posts here tote that solar roofs in general allow more personal time and a more economical alternative to ICE vehicles when coupled with a superior electric vehicle.

Keep in mind, I am pro-Tesla as I sell components to them for their light and heavy vehicles.

Their corporate arrogance is among the highest that I've ever dealt with.

You said...

A solar roof is https://www.tesla.com/solarroof

It's the exact name of the product that Tesla sells. Google "solar roof" and you *only* get Tesla results.

If you work with Tesla as you say, it seems like something you would know.

If you work with say, electricity, you would be aware that things like this do happen from time to time. A single instance is not indicative of an entire industry. But instead you say...

And ICE cars can't buy advertising like this! (And for real, 1 out of every 1000 of these Opels have lit themselves on fire, even with four different recalls! But, gas car, so Meh.)

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I call bullshit. You’ve done nothing but troll on this thread. To say otherwise is laughably false.