Vancouver, BC
This design is nothing new. This has been talked about for 30 years. Tesla came up with a design that works and is very functional.
Very inexpensive to build and no paint shop needed. YOU COULD BUILD THIS IN A TENT!
(Topic ID: 184461)
Asbury Park, NJ
Quoted from Pinless:Never said that the cyber truck would be the #1 selling truck. I believe technology has gotten us close to the point where an EV truck will make more sense than a gas truck.
Ford has an F150 prototype that looks promising. Once they go all in, it could be the tipping point. Why have a twin turbo v-whatever making 400hp when a simple battery and motor could put out 600hp without breaking a sweat?
I’d trade my Raptor in a heartbeat for an electric F150 with specs similar to the cyber truck.
My point was the truck industry is pretty huge. You have a lot of commercial use and with heavy demands. You can't wait on solar panels to get work done. You also need more versatility to compete in truck market. But this isn't really a truck. Just a more versatile eletric car.
Quoted from jawjaw:My point was the truck industry is pretty huge. You have a lot of commercial use and with heavy demands. You can't wait on solar panels to get work done. You also need more versatility to compete in truck market. "But this isn't really a truck." Just a more versatile electric car.
It may not be a Truck but it is one hell of a Pickup Truck! Beats the heck out of what's available now in an ice pickup apples to apples. That's why there is already 250,000 preorders already. FORD has considered the Mustang Mach E a sell out at only 50,000 preorders .
Quoted from jawjaw:My point was the truck industry is pretty huge. You have a lot of commercial use and with heavy demands. You can't wait on solar panels to get work done. You also need more versatility to compete in truck market. But this isn't really a truck. Just a more versatile eletric car.
Big companies have already placed orders for hundreds of thousands of electric trucks, semi’s and vans from Tesla and Rivian.
I’m not sure who is “waiting on solar panels”. The new chargers can charge a vehicle in 15 minutes.
It’s taken the auto industry 100+ years to produce 700+hp ICE cars. It took the EV market ~10 years. Soccer moms will soon be hitting the streets in 5,000lb SUV’s that are quicker than hellcats and GT500’s. (It’s a little scary to be honest)
I don't put much in preorder numbers when it's not a real commitment. It will be interesting to see how things work out in next few years. Numbers on paper don't mean much to me. It's about how the car drives, noise it makes, and how well it matches my lifestyle. Not going to be easy to get someone like me in an electric car. I'm not a Ford guy or really a truck person but would take any F150 over Cybertruck all day every day.
Best to charge at home.
I wonder if this is during the wildfire crisis which is making the electric company turn off electricity to many homes. Gas stations are also affected - their electricity is off at the same time.
Quoted from crwjumper:Best to charge at home.
I wonder if this is during the wildfire crisis which is making the electric company turn off electricity to many homes. Gas stations are also affected - their electricity is off at the same time.
Definitely when that is possible, but you can't when on a road trip.
The public charging infrastructure will have to continue to grow as the number of EVs grows for all brands.
Quoted from DCFAN:Definitely when that is possible, but you can't when on a road trip.
The public charging infrastructure will have to continue to grow as the number of EVs grows for all brands.
Absolutely.
You have to hand it to Tesla: They have built a large robust charging infrastructure across the country and around the world to help kick start the electric car evolution.
There are also several other parties who are building charging infrastructure in addition to the TESLA stations.
I can understand that in an area like California where there are many more early adopters that there can be this kind of backup on a large holiday travel weekend. But this will also begin to ease up as more and more charging stations are opened by third party entrepreneurs.
Quoted from DCFAN:Long line of electric vehicles waiting for the chargers in California:
Looks a lot like gas stations before and after a hurricane.
Quoted from crwjumper:You have to hand it to Tesla: They have built a large robust charging infrastructure across the country and around the world to help kick start the electric car evolution.
There are also several other parties who are building charging infrastructure in addition to the TESLA stations.
Forgive my ignorance on EV charging.. but I'm assuming not every tesla has lifetime charging (not even talk supercharging, just free charging). And I'm pretty sure all nissan leaf owners have to pay when they charge publically. Gas stations average 3 cents profit per gallon after taxes, credit card fees, etc. Would it not make sense for every gas station to install electric chargers? Even if they only make 3 cents per kwatt, once the infrastructure is installed it's free money. Unlike gas, charging stations can run 24/7 without attendants.
Quoted from toyotaboy:Forgive my ignorance on EV charging.. but I'm assuming not every tesla has lifetime charging (not even talk supercharging, just free charging). And I'm pretty sure all nissan leaf owners have to pay when they charge publically. Gas stations average 3 cents profit per gallon after taxes, credit card fees, etc. Would it not make sense for every gas station to install electric chargers? Even if they only make 3 cents per kwatt, once the infrastructure is installed it's free money. Unlike gas, charging stations can run 24/7 without attendants.
Tesla no longer provides free charging for new customers according to the articles I have read.
https://nypost.com/2016/11/07/teslas-supercharging-stations-no-longer-free-of-charge/
I would think and hope service stations eventually will install some EV chargers as the demand grows. Otherwise in about 20 or 30 years service stations will cease to exist beyond being repair shops and convenience stores.
The first electric only station opened recently in VA. It was a gas station that wasn’t making much money. The real money will be not in the charging but snack, drinks etc. A place with clean restrooms like Buc-ee’s, food etc in the right place right off major highways would cleanup. The thing is you only need to charge in a public place when on a long road trip. Locals won’t need to use it.
Quoted from JoshPA:The thing is you only need to charge in a public place when on a long road trip. Locals won’t need to use it.
I still think you're going to have the occasional person who forgot to charge overnight, hop in the car, and 5 miles down the road they realize they didn't charge and need to top off a little bit. Or maybe you're going out to lunch and you decide to put your car on charge and walk over to the restaurant next door. Or maybe you're thrifty and you bought a used leaf with only 50% battery capacity and the only way for you to make it home is to top it off on the way.
3 weeks later
Quoted from pinster68:I see all the harsh criticism and market panic selling as an opportunity to buy more TSLA. So I did.
Timing was everything. 30-day return ... While the short sellers are getting burned.
FC681D12-2537-42A1-ADDB-3664213A10FC (resized).jpegQuoted from Nilroc:If your short on Tesla you better get out now!
That was the best advice a shortseller could have taken, but didn’t.
Quoted from pinster68:Timing was everything. 30-day return ... While the short sellers are getting burned.[quoted image]
I thought Elon tweeted a while ago that at $420 a share he was going to turn private....
In Canada Petro Canada Gas Stations are putting in EV Charging across Canada Coast to Coast! https://www.petro-canada.ca/en/personal/fuel/ev-fast-charge-network?gclid=Cj0KCQiA0ZHwBRCRARIsAK0Tr-ob910GHxuzB22FkpclGmuGKk5TN_Cj0zUrckTRkx4iafeDNjYSibwaAlY_EALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds
I have not tested it yet, but the latest Tesla software update incorporates many voice commands. Looks very interesting but I saw a few YouTube videos where it is still a bit finicky. Once perfected, it will lessen dependence on the touch screen.
Quoted from Luckydogg420:I thought Elon tweeted a while ago that at $420 a share he was going to turn private....
It's a bit more complex than that. In short he was thinking of taking it private, unofficially secured funding to do so, and then all hell broke loose and the SEC fined him and Tesla 20Mil each.
$420 was a psychological price target since ... and now that we're there it's getting a lot of press.
Shortsellers banked heavily (26 million shares as of current, or over $10 billion) on the stock plummeting this year, and it did the opposite. So now shortsellers are stuck with expiring puts and are being forced to buy the shares ... so the stock price is climbing artificially even higher.
Quoted from pinster68:It's a bit more complex than that. In short he was thinking of taking it private, unofficially secured funding to do so, and then all hell broke loose and the SEC fined him and Tesla 20Mil each.
$420 was a psychological price target since ... and now that we're there it's getting a lot of press.
Shortsellers banked heavily (26 million shares as of current, or over $10 billion) on the stock plummeting this year, and it did the opposite. So now shortsellers are stuck with expiring puts and are being forced to buy the shares ... so the stock price is climbing artificially even higher.
Most of that is true, but funding was never secured. That was Elon pissed at shorts and trying to hit them in the wallet.
Quoted from jayhawkai:Most of that is true, but funding was never secured. That was Elon pissed at shorts and trying to hit them in the wallet.
Who woulda thunk a better way to do that was deliver or hype products people actually wanted? Plus have the Fed turn the money spigot on nearly full blast doesn't hurt.
Quoted from jayhawkai:Most of that is true, but funding was never secured. That was Elon pissed at shorts and trying to hit them in the wallet.
Correct. He could not substantiate the secured funds ... granted he would not have had an issue getting the funds. But that was understandably unacceptable for the SEC, hence the fines.
1 week later
Question for those with a older Tesla...I've been looking at used Model S's (2014-2015) and was wondering if the large updates include those models. Would those models get the new features like Camp mode that was just released during the holidays?
Quoted from BrewersArcade:Question for those with a older Tesla...I've been looking at used Model S's (2014-2015) and was wondering if the large updates include those models. Would those models get the new features like Camp mode that was just released during the holidays?
Some features it depends on exactly what model and what hardware it has (does it have AP1.0? 2.0? 2.5?),
some features it depends what options were purchased (was FSD added?),
and other features were rolled out to all cars. I do believe Camp Mode was rolled out to everyone.
Quoted from BrewersArcade:Question for those with a older Tesla...I've been looking at used Model S's (2014-2015) and was wondering if the large updates include those models. Would those models get the new features like Camp mode that was just released during the holidays?
Much better to get a new 3 vs an old S. While the old S are nice cars, you usually can't get it upgraded to the newer driving computer or newer computer used for the display.
i bought a refreshed (new nose) 2016 90D with AP1/MCU1. yes i don't get latest features but AP1 seems great from an adaptive cruise control point of view (all i need).
me, i would not buy a pre-autopilot era nor one without a warranty from tesla. these things aren't toyota level of reliability.
Who wears Short Shorts? https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/TSLA/
No turning back now!
Quoted from sd_tom:i bought a refreshed (new nose) 2016 90D with AP1/MCU1. yes i don't get latest features but AP1 seems great from an adaptive cruise control point of view (all i need).
me, i would not buy a pre-autopilot era nor one without a warranty from tesla. these things aren't toyota level of reliability.
I would only buy used through Tesla which includes a factory warranty. I’ve considered a 3 but with three kids age 11,9, and 2 it would be a bit cramped. Ideally I want to wait for a Y but that will be a year or two before it’s available.
Quoted from BrewersArcade:I would only buy used through Tesla which includes a factory warranty. I’ve considered a 3 but with three kids age 11,9, and 2 it would be a bit cramped. Ideally I want to wait for a Y but that will be a year or two before it’s available.
If you are putting that many people in the car, a model 3 is too small. I have either 2 or occasionally 3 people ever in the car. That’s works fine but the back seat area is the size of a civic.
Quoted from cliff_clavin:If you are putting that many people in the car, a model 3 is too small
Agreed on this. 2 in the front and 2 in the back fits just fine, but it would not be comfortable for 5 adults. Because they're kids, you can just tell them to cram in and it likely won't be bad when they're that young, but they will get older and bigger and the back seat isn't very large.
Quoted from BrewersArcade:I would only buy used through Tesla which includes a factory warranty. I’ve considered a 3 but with three kids age 11,9, and 2 it would be a bit cramped. Ideally I want to wait for a Y but that will be a year or two before it’s available.
The Model Y will start being delivered this February most likely. You won't have to wait a year or 2. They are way ahead of schedule.
https://cleantechnica.com/2020/01/14/tesla-filed-model-y-certification-papers-with-carb-on-january-9-will-deliveries-begin-next-month/
Quoted from Nilroc:The Model Y will start being delivered this February most likely. You won't have to wait a year or 2. They are way ahead of schedule.
https://cleantechnica.com/2020/01/14/tesla-filed-model-y-certification-papers-with-carb-on-january-9-will-deliveries-begin-next-month/
I had heard this! I wonder if the seven seater will begin production this year? Now I need to find $50,000.
Quoted from DCFAN:Long line of electric vehicles waiting for the chargers in California:
Hey, I know I'm like, super late to the party, but someone asked me about these and told me about how my car sucked, so I looked it up...
These were filmed at Tesla's Kettleman City Supercharger I believe. It's the halfway point between LA and San Francisco, so it's frequented a lot. It also has a Tesla-branded lounge with coffee shop, and from what I've been told has become a place where sometimes, owners just stop for fun.
It also has 40 superchargers.
I mapped Disneyland (south of LA in Anaheim) to Six Flags Marineland (North of San Francisco) to look at a longer than average trip between the two cities. That's 413 miles.
Let's say that half the cars were long range, so they would need about 120 miles of charge here. At the slower speeds, this would be just slightly more than 16 minutes. Then, The longer range cars would probably not full charge here, but let's assume they charge for twice that - 30 minutes.
That means with 40 stalls, on average a stall opens twice a minute. That terrible line up of like 20 cars (they claimed "miles" originally) is like a ten minute wait.
The other thing, this was filmed over the Thanksgiving weekend. I have waited more than 10 minutes to get gas on Thanksgiving. That's like, two people.
You can actually see it in the first video where the car circles around a bunch of cars in "crisis" or whatever that has no one sitting in front of them. When I parked my car downtown last night to go to an NBA game, it wasn't in an "energy crisis", it was just waiting until I came back. But hey, it's way more interesting to try to prove how the technology didn't work.
Oh, and Tesla gets all the data from this to fix it. They are already upgrading KettleMan to 250 kw chargers, which will cut the charging time down by 1/3rd or so. They are opening around 50 stalls a week in the US right now, and can use their data to figure out how to add more, even for edge cases like this.
When framed right though, normal things sure seem dramatic. There was a big fire in a car park in Norway that took out 600+ vehicles last week, and it was blamed on an EV, so very dramatic. Turns out it was an Opel Zafira Diesel, a car which has been recalled four times for fire risk, and had more than 300 known instances of starting on fire before this one (for a better than 1 in 1000 rate of the cars lighting themselves on fire!).
When it was framed as an EV fire, it was pretty dramatic. When it was later corrected, even though the Opel Zafira is more than 30 times more likely than a Tesla to catch fire based on some back of the napkin math on *actual* reported fires, that's boring and most places didn't even post retractions to the original story.
Change is hard for many. But they won't stop change from happening.
Quoted from goatdan:Change is hard for many. But they won't stop change from happening.
Not certain this "Change" as you put it, is real, more like hype. Gasoline vehicles, especially hybrids, are superior in so many ways to pure EV, range, power, hauling and towing. The theoretical efficiency of batteries will soon max out. People enjoy pulling RV's, driving motorhomes, make their living with tractor trailers loaded to the brim with goods.
The freedom a diesel or petrol engine offers has not yet been duplicated.
As I research more in-depth on build quality of Tesla, parts availability, repair options they seem more and more to be a disposable car, an expensive one at that. When something I own becomes impossible for me to repair or a local shop to repair it is non-viable.
Quoted from phil-lee:Not certain this "Change" as you put it, is real, more like hype. Gasoline vehicles, especially hybrids, are superior in so many ways to pure EV, range, power, hauling and towing. The theoretical efficiency of batteries will soon max out. People enjoy pulling RV's, driving motorhomes, make their living with tractor trailers loaded to the brim with goods.
The freedom a diesel or petrol engine offers has not yet been duplicated.
As I research more in-depth on build quality of Tesla, parts availability, repair options they seem more and more to be a disposable car, an expensive one at that. When something I own becomes impossible for me to repair or a local shop to repair it is non-viable.
All cars are disposable. I am sure battery tech will continue to expand more than you expect during our lives.
Will it be some perfect straight line? No. But change is here. Just a matter how fast things go from here.
Quoted from phil-lee:Not certain this "Change" as you put it, is real, more like hype. Gasoline vehicles, especially hybrids, are superior in so many ways to pure EV, range, power, hauling and towing. The theoretical efficiency of batteries will soon max out. People enjoy pulling RV's, driving motorhomes, make their living with tractor trailers loaded to the brim with goods.
The freedom a diesel or petrol engine offers has not yet been duplicated.
As I research more in-depth on build quality of Tesla, parts availability, repair options they seem more and more to be a disposable car, an expensive one at that. When something I own becomes impossible for me to repair or a local shop to repair it is non-viable.
I always find the freedom of gasoline or diesel an interesting concept. What percentage of locations have electricity as compared to fuel pumps. I've never understood the whole gas is more available narrative. If you really need long range its probably easier and safer to carry batteries than it is to carry liquid fuel. Solar charging trailers are available and they work anywhere.
This guy didn't seem to have a problem with charging infrastructure
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3-115000-mile-roadtrip-across-us/
Quoted from phil-lee:Not certain this "Change" as you put it, is real, more like hype. Gasoline vehicles, especially hybrids, are superior in so many ways to pure EV, range, power, hauling and towing. The theoretical efficiency of batteries will soon max out. People enjoy pulling RV's, driving motorhomes, make their living with tractor trailers loaded to the brim with goods.
The freedom a diesel or petrol engine offers has not yet been duplicated.
As I research more in-depth on build quality of Tesla, parts availability, repair options they seem more and more to be a disposable car, an expensive one at that. When something I own becomes impossible for me to repair or a local shop to repair it is non-viable.
Back in 2016 willfully ignorant people could shit all over Tesla and sound like they knew what they were talking about, but in 2020? This is just hilarious.
Are you also still betting the landline will beat the iPhone because copper is cheaper, more durable and has better sound quality? Or that cable TV will beat streaming services because dial-up Internet is too slow? Do you think LCDs will somehow be dropped from pinball machines in favor of EM score reels because they are superior and 'people enjoy the sound'?
I have been driving the same Tesla for over 7 years. Every day. I drive it HARD. Brutally hard. It's bulletproof. It's an astonishing, mind-blowingly sweet ride that never gets old. I gun it and it still makes me smile. It is an amazing vehicle.
But go on, tell us all about how disposable they are.
Quoted from Brijam:I have been driving the same Tesla for over 7 years. Every day. I drive it HARD. Brutally hard. It's bulletproof. It's an astonishing, mind-blowingly sweet ride that never gets old. I gun it and it still makes me smile. It is an amazing vehicle.
when cars are engineered truly good, they should. On sort of a related note, I came across this video of a lexus LS400 that put on a million miles, and the valve covers have never been removed from the engine (IE never "rebuilt"). 9 timing belts and 3 transmission rebuilds.
I'd imagine so long as a tesla doesn't get totalled in an accident, it'll just run forever so long as it has battery power.
Quoted from goatdan:These were filmed at Tesla's Kettleman City Supercharger I believe. It's the halfway point between LA and San Francisco, so it's frequented a lot. It also has a Tesla-branded lounge with coffee shop, and from what I've been told has become a place where sometimes, owners just stop for fun.
It also has 40 superchargers.
I was just at that stop yesterday coming back north from LA to SF area.
half the superchargers have been upgraded to the V3 250kw units (20 V3 and 20 V2)
At the end of a holiday weekend at 5pm, it was only half full (curious enough, half the V2 chargers were used and half the V3 chargers were used. Not sure if people just didn't notice that both were available?)
I do think a lot of people are charging for longer either because their battery is almost dead and so it starts charging at a slower rate or they are charging it nearer to full and the last 10% takes a longer time (and sometimes both).
still there's no way people average over 40 min (and I think that's a gross overestimate)
I pulled in yesterday with 11 miles left on the battery and probably charged about 40 min but that's pretty much the maximum possible and I don't think that's at all normal
Quoted from Darscot:I always find the freedom of gasoline or diesel an interesting concept. What percentage of locations have electricity as compared to fuel pumps. I've never understood the whole gas is more available narrative. If you really need long range its probably easier and safer to carry batteries than it is to carry liquid fuel. Solar charging trailers are available and they work anywhere.
I find far more freedom owning 2 Tesla's now vs owning ICE cars. The main difference? 99% of the time I fuel at home. Producing my own fuel on my roof. I get 375mi range in one charge. That's a lot.
Just took my daughter to a cheer competition in Bakersfield. Had 8 Superchargers to choose from on the way. Decided to stop in Kettleman City. We were hungry. But the car finished charging too quickly for us to finish. The total round trip cost came in around $15. The car did 90% of the highway driving. My daughter watched Netflix (a new cheer series) on the main 17" screen in the car in surround on our way home when we stopped to charge for 25min. We were happy people.
I've never been so free and happy. Gone are the burdens of having to stop to fill a tank every freaking week for $80. And once every few months, when i don't charge at home, I enjoy a few minutes of Netflix/hulu/disney plus on the screen, or scarf down food trying to beat the charger.
Never again will I waste time with an ICE car. $80 a week for gas. Every gallon pumping out 5lb of waste. 5-10 min to fuel. Yah. Times 52 weeks. $4K per year. maybe 4-8 hours of time fueling. Traded for 0 time fueling at home. And the occasional 1% of the time I travel, enjoying food and netflix during that 25m charge, when I needed to stop anyway after driving 370mi straight.
Good riddance Dinosaur juice.
Quoted from OnTheSnap:I find far more freedom owning 2 Tesla's now vs owning ICE cars. The main difference? 99% of the time I fuel at home. Producing my own fuel on my roof. I get 375mi range in one charge. That's a lot.
Just took my daughter to a cheer competition in Bakersfield. Had 8 Superchargers to choose from on the way. Decided to stop in Kettleman City. We were hungry. But the car finished charging too quickly for us to finish. The total round trip cost came in around $15. The car did 90% of the highway driving. My daughter watched Netflix (a new cheer series) on the main 17" screen in the car in surround on our way home when we stopped to charge for 25min. We were happy people.
I've never been so free and happy. Gone are the burdens of having to stop to fill a tank every freaking week for $80. And once every few months, when i don't charge at home, I enjoy a few minutes of Netflix/hulu/disney plus on the screen, or scarf down food trying to beat the charger.
Never again will I waste time with an ICE car. $80 a week for gas. Every gallon pumping out 5lb of waste. 5-10 min to fuel. Yah. Times 52 weeks. $4K per year. maybe 4-8 hours of time fueling. Traded for 0 time fueling at home. And the occasional 1% of the time I travel, enjoying food and netflix during that 25m charge, when I needed to stop anyway after driving 370mi straight.
Good riddance Dinosaur juice.
But like you're wrong man! All that convenience crap and fun sounding stuff is never going to catch on! Derp!
Quoted from OnTheSnap:Gone are the burdens of having to stop to fill a tank every freaking week for $80.
$80 a week? Gas sure is a lot more expensive in CA than TX. It would take me quite a while to recoup the premium of a Tesla here. My current VW gets 35mpg easily and hardly takes a minute to fill up. It has a small tank so only takes around $25 or less to fill up. Hardly call that a burden since gas stations are practically everywhere. It would be more of a burden to run low on batteries with no charging stations around or not be able to charge because power outage but I do get your point. If you keep the Tesla long enough and it holds up well, it would start paying for itself.
Despite solar the primary source of electricity for electric vehicles will come from nuclear power plants. The first waste from nuclear production /experimentation is still here, as is all nuclear waste ever produced. It will stay around,and hazardous, for 85000 years. There is no "Disposal" method, nowhere to put it, nobody wants it.
Electricity produced by nuclear power is not Green. You do nothing to help the Planet by using electric vehicles unless 100% of recharging is performed using solar, wind, an impossible task unless your trips are confined to a small area.
The psychological benefits are immense though, as it makes one feel good.
Quoted from Brijam:Back in 2016 willfully ignorant people could shit all over Tesla and sound like they knew what they were talking about, but in 2020? This is just hilarious.
Are you also still betting the landline will beat the iPhone because copper is cheaper, more durable and has better sound quality? Or that cable TV will beat streaming services because dial-up Internet is too slow? Do you think LCDs will somehow be dropped from pinball machines in favor of EM score reels because they are superior and 'people enjoy the sound'?
I have been driving the same Tesla for over 7 years. Every day. I drive it HARD. Brutally hard. It's bulletproof. It's an astonishing, mind-blowingly sweet ride that never gets old. I gun it and it still makes me smile. It is an amazing vehicle.
But go on, tell us all about how disposable they are.
I do not remember saying any of those things. I do know Tesla build quality is cheap, welds are poor, parts are hard to come by sometimes with a long wait and repairs are expensive, hence they are cheap in quality throw away disposable cars. Perhaps Toyota can build a great electric vehicle.
Quoted from phil-lee:Despite solar the primary source of electricity for electric vehicles will come from nuclear power plants. The first waste from nuclear production /experimentation is still here, as is all nuclear waste ever produced. It will stay around,and hazardous, for 85000 years. There is no "Disposal" method, nowhere to put it, nobody wants it.
Electricity produced by nuclear power is not Green. You do nothing to help the Planet by using electric vehicles unless 100% of recharging is performed using solar, wind, an impossible task unless your trips are confined to a small area.
The psychological benefits are immense though, as it makes one feel good.
It all depends on your location, I use 100% renewable electricity in a nuclear free zone. Where I live we run 95% renewable and that 5% is remote locations that I never use. The whole point is change, electricity can be 100% clean renewable energy, if where you live they are doing it wrong its time for change. There is no clean fossil fuel so they faster we get off them the better. The whole electricity is dirty argument is nonsense. I love how you pretend solar and wind is the only way to make electricity.
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