(Topic ID: 184461)

Who is in on Tesla model 3 ?


By pinballrockstar

2 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 2,859 posts
  • 201 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 12 days ago by Pinballs
  • Topic is favorited by 22 Pinsiders

You

Topic poll

“Are you in on the model 3?”

  • Hell yes! 50 votes
    14%
  • I am considering! 75 votes
    22%
  • Hard to part with fossil fuel 13 votes
    4%
  • I don't care about my carbon footprint 74 votes
    21%
  • No 135 votes
    39%

(347 votes)

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There are 2859 posts in this topic. You are on page 54 of 58.
#2651 83 days ago
Quoted from Pinless:

I’ll never understand why people revel in bashing a company that’s changing the future in so many different areas while employing thousand of Americans.

First company in 100 years to build an auto manufacturing line from scratch, and the company at the forefront (by a long shot) of 21st century ingenuity. They are bringing nothing but pure innovation and marvels of modern engineering, and they do it all on US soil with American workers... And yet they are maliciously targeted day in and day out and people go buy cars from companies that didn't put a dime into any useful R&D toward sustainable energy for decades and whose cars are all made overseas despite being American brands.

#2652 83 days ago
Quoted from ktownhero:

First company in 100 years to build an auto manufacturing line from scratch, and the company at the forefront (by a long shot) of 21st century ingenuity. They are bringing nothing but pure innovation and marvels of modern engineering, and they do it all on US soil with American workers... And yet they are maliciously targeted day in and day out and people go buy cars from companies that didn't put a dime into any useful R&D toward sustainable energy for decades and whose cars are all made overseas despite being American brands.

Yes it's all very odd - it just doesn't seem to make any sense. American born company, trying to break into an area from scratch that most deemed impossible, and actually created decent product. You'd think almost all Americans would be cheering for a company like that to succeed, yet there are so many that seem to just want it to fail. And no one can really explain why.

#2653 83 days ago

Gas is heading up to $3-$4 per gallon again. Hopefully it helps drive the demand for electric cars.

#2654 83 days ago
Quoted from Pinless:

I’ll never understand why people revel in bashing a company that’s changing the future in so many different areas while employing thousand of Americans.

Agree 100%. Short sellers or trolls.

#2655 83 days ago
Quoted from Pinless:

Gas is heading up to $3-$4 per gallon again. Hopefully it helps drive the demand for electric cars.

I literally hope gas goes to $5 per gallon. The world will be singing a different tune.

#2656 83 days ago

If you have a wireless charging capable phone, the Nomad is an absolute must buy. I also have 20% tint on all windows and the roof glass. 20% may be too aggressive since it’s already tinted though.

#2657 82 days ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

This is just your imagination

No, that’s called an opinion not imagination. It’s just as valid as your opinion, and in time might prove to be more truthful then yours, or not. Time will tell.

#2658 82 days ago
Quoted from paynemic:

I literally hope gas goes to $5 per gallon. The world will be singing a different tune.

It'll help, but it's not necessary. All people need are exposure to a Tesla, and they'll want one -- it's just a better car. Everyone from teenagers to the elderly that get into my car are blown away and want one. It seems like every day I see more and more on the road now that the 3 is readily available, and that's only going to increase in time and especially with the Y.

Also, keep in mind that they have never spent a dime yet on marketing... None. Never a single ad run anywhere. If/when they decide they are ready to aggressively eat up market share, they can just by investing modestly in advertising. It's kind of funny how these articles never mention that. They have hundreds of thousands of cars on the road worldwide by effing word of mouth.

EDIT: And, to be fair, any electric car that is designed to not intentionally be a "hippiemobile" (re: leaf, prius, etc) will be appealing to people as long as it has range over 200 miles. I mean, the fact that there's literally no maintenance to the cars and they'll likely lasts exponentially longer than an ICE vehicle alone is worth a whole hell of a lot to people -- and that's the type of positive information regarding the technology that gets suppressed while outlets publish complete garbage about Elon smoking pot or X factor (can be anything) is proof they are dying. lol.

#2659 82 days ago
Quoted from paynemic:

I literally hope gas goes to $5 per gallon. The world will be singing a different tune.

$4.39 per Gallon in SoCal as of today!!!
And I just drive by grinning .

#2660 82 days ago
Quoted from ktownhero:

Also, keep in mind that they have never spent a dime yet on marketing... None. Never a single ad run anywhere. If/when they decide they are ready to aggressively eat up market share, they can just by investing modestly in advertising. It's kind of funny how these articles never mention that. They have hundreds of thousands of cars on the road worldwide by effing word of mouth.

If it wasn't Tesla's Marketing budget; what budget was used for Tesla's display at the 2015 North American International Auto Show in Detroit? Or the 2018 LA Auto Show?

#2662 82 days ago
Quoted from MrBally:

If it wasn't Tesla's Marketing budget; what budget was used for Tesla's display at the 2015 North American International Auto Show in Detroit? Or the 2018 LA Auto Show?

I guess you missed the spirit of what I was saying... They've not advertised yet. But of course they go to auto shows.

#2663 82 days ago
Quoted from StrangeSubset1:

$4.39 per Gallon in SoCal as of today!!!
And I just drive by grinning .

jeez! i hope thats for premium at least. its $3.10 for regular in the midwest. i too hope gas prices go up, but it seems like electric cars lowering the demand for fuel is helping keep it relatively down (it did used to be $4.30 gallon the midwest 8 years ago).

i did a calculation.. tesla is about 5 cents per mile to charge. i pay about 10 cents per mile ($3.10 / 30mpg). so if tesla batteries typically have 80% charge capacity by 160,000 miles (i consider this the tipping point of downfall), i save $8k. now if i charge for free in public not at home, that savings doubles. so if the model 3 base were to drop to 35k again, you could potentially factor in an additional $16k in fuel savings making it a $19k car. throw in savings from oil changes youre down another $2k. $17k for an electric car really isnt sounding so bad now.

#2664 82 days ago

I'm happy to support the USA by purchasing two Teslas that were manufactured in the USA. And as a Californian, I'm happy to support an auto manufacturer that built the cars in California. I too have no idea why so many Americans want to see Telsa fail, yet will buy automobiles from foreign manufacturers, or from US manufacturers that build outside of the USA.

I live in a college town that we've longed joked is the "Prius Capitol of the World", but it looks like things are shifting, and I'm seeing Teslas on the road almost as much, if not more, than I'm seeing those pesky Prii (and I still own my 2012 Prius). I hope to see this trend grow.

#2665 82 days ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

jeez! i hope thats for premium at least. its $3.10 for regular in the midwest. i too hope gas prices go up, but it seems like electric cars lowering the demand for fuel is helping keep it relatively down (it did used to be $4.30 gallon the midwest 8 years ago).
i did a calculation.. tesla is about 5 cents per mile to charge. i pay about 10 cents per mile ($3.10 / 30mpg). so if tesla batteries typically have 80% charge capacity by 160,000 miles (i consider this the tipping point of downfall), i save $8k. now if i charge for free in public not at home, that savings doubles. so if the model 3 base were to drop to 35k again, you could potentially factor in an additional $16k in fuel savings making it a $19k car. throw in savings from oil changes youre down another $2k. $17k for an electric car really isnt sounding so bad now.

Assuming $0.16 per kwh, I get only about 3.6 cents per mile... And for much of the country it's probably lower than that.

I'm basing this on a long range AWD model 3 with a 75kwh pack and a range of 310 miles.

#2666 82 days ago
Quoted from ktownhero:

First company in 100 years to build an auto manufacturing line from scratch, and the company at the forefront (by a long shot) of 21st century ingenuity. They are bringing nothing but pure innovation and marvels of modern engineering

It's astonishing that people actually believe this.

#2667 82 days ago
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#2668 82 days ago
Quoted from ktownhero:

Assuming $0.16 per kwh, I get only about 3.6 cents per mile... And for much of the country it's probably lower than that.
I'm basing this on a long range AWD model 3 with a 75kwh pack and a range of 310 miles.

im at about that, but we are heavily taxed so its closer to 20 cents a kwh

#2669 82 days ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

im at about that, but we are heavily taxed so its closer to 20 cents a kwh

Gotta love Commonwealth Edison/Exelon and Illinois taxes.

#2670 82 days ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

It's astonishing that people actually believe this.

Facts?

#2671 82 days ago
Quoted from ktownhero:

First company in 100 years to build an auto manufacturing line from scratch, and the company at the forefront (by a long shot) of 21st century ingenuity. They are bringing nothing but pure innovation and marvels of modern engineering, and they do it all on US soil with American workers... And yet they are maliciously targeted day in and day out and people go buy cars from companies that didn't put a dime into any useful R&D toward sustainable energy for decades and whose cars are all made overseas despite being American brands.

Quoted from rubberducks:

It's astonishing that people actually believe this.

Guess he should have said first U.S. company, as many European and Asian car companies would all have been within the last hundred years.

#2672 82 days ago
Quoted from StrangeSubset1:

$4.39 per Gallon in SoCal as of today!!!
And I just drive by grinning .

Just now in San Diego

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#2673 82 days ago

When Americans are complaining about gas prices I know my wallet is in for a hurting. But with no car payment no sense going electric.... Yet .

-1
#2674 82 days ago
Quoted from MrBally:

Just now in San Diego
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Keep going!! The only thing that’s gonna save the environment is the market economy. Haters like the trolls on this thread will only change when it hits them in the paycheck. Remember when NOBODY was buying suvs or big trucks a few years back? Bring back those expensive gas days....

#2675 82 days ago

Our local gas price converted from liters to gallons, then Canadian dollars to USD. We would be paying about $3.60 / G

#2676 81 days ago
Quoted from MrBally:

How we Lookin' Today?

[quoted image]

Pretty damn good. Sold high and bought low several times over. Got out before the last slide and will ready to jump back in soon. So what’s your story?

#2677 81 days ago
Quoted from ktownhero:

Also, keep in mind that they have never spent a dime yet on marketing... None. Never a single ad run anywhere. If/when they decide they are ready to aggressively eat up market share, they can just by investing modestly in advertising. It's kind of funny how these articles never mention that. They have hundreds of thousands of cars on the road worldwide by effing word of mouth.

Of course they've spent money on marketing. It's why they shut down their old referral program. It was costing them too much money. Something like 80 people earned Roadsters @ 250k each. If their profit margin on those is 100%, that's 10 million bucks just for that. And no one knows how many of the other prizes have been given out.

Free supercharging for life wasn't marketing?

Marketing is captured on the Income Statement under "Sales, General and Administrative". They spent 700 million on that in the first quarter of 2019. Not all of that is Marketing, but a chunk of it is.

Just because they don't run ads in traditional venues doesn't mean they don't spend on marketing.

#2679 80 days ago
Quoted from jayhawkai:

Guess he should have said first U.S. company, as many European and Asian car companies would all have been within the last hundred years.

How would that make it any more true? The statement is total fantasy.

#2680 80 days ago

“We're developing a new citizenry. One that will be very selective about cereals and automobiles, but won't be able to think.” ― Rod Serling

#2681 80 days ago
Quoted from Eryeal:

Yes it's all very odd - it just doesn't seem to make any sense. American born company, trying to break into an area from scratch that most deemed impossible, and actually created decent product. You'd think almost all Americans would be cheering for a company like that to succeed, yet there are so many that seem to just want it to fail. And no one can really explain why.

It’s really not odd. Tesla threatens big oil, car manufactures, dealerships, and a lot of others in the car mod/repair industry such as the Jiffy Lubes of the world. You don’t think Ford couldn’t easily replicate this? The truth is, that they have very little interest to go electric.

It was the same with Hoover, they had no interest in making a vacuum without a bag because selling bags was a billion dollar industry. They only did it because Dyson stepped in and forced it on them. Tesla is going to do the same to cars. Ford and others still want you to buy belts, pay for oil changes, and etcetera.

#2682 80 days ago
Quoted from SkillShot:

It was the same with Hoover, they had no interest in making a vacuum without a bag because selling bags was a billion dollar industry. They only did it because Dyson stepped in and forced it on them. Tesla is going to do the same to cars. Ford and others still want you to buy belts, pay for oil changes, and etcetera.

Agreed...

Every dealer:

#1 profit income is financing (even if they don't own it, the local banks give them low rates and they toss in their own percentage)
#2 Service (yes, those engines that always have issues). Both the dealership makes a profit off the service itself, and hiking up the cost of parts
#3 Used car sales.
They make practically nothing on a new car sale because there's an MSRP so there isn't much wiggle room since if you raise your prices too high, they'll just go to a different dealer.

1. I'm guessing Tesla also makes money off financing if the person isn't paying cash
2. There isn't much service, unless you had an accident, or just a weird issue
3. Tesla is trying to get into the used car market but clearly they aren't doing very well. Also there isn't a big inventory because many cars that got tax incentives can't sell it yet

#2683 80 days ago
Quoted from paynemic:

Keep going!! The only thing that’s gonna save the environment is the market economy. Haters like the trolls on this thread will only change when it hits them in the paycheck. Remember when NOBODY was buying suvs or big trucks a few years back? Bring back those expensive gas days....

What a shortsighted, cringey outlook. I don’t have an opinion one way or another on Tesla, other than it sounds semi-appealing, but some of the lame commentary by fanboys repels more people than it attracts.

High gas prices cause a lot of things, and the largest group it effects is poor people. You think the minimum wage guy with a 20 year old truck is just going to pop for a new electric car because gas prices rise? Pfft, think again.

I hope Tesla is successful, and that they become a major player in auto manufacturing, but wishing hardship on other consumers is lame and pretty pathetic in my opinion.

#2684 80 days ago
Quoted from Procrastinator:

What a shortsighted, cringey outlook. I don’t have an opinion one way or another on Tesla, other than it sounds semi-appealing, but some of the lame commentary by fanboys repels more people than it attracts.
High gas prices cause a lot of things, and the largest group it effects is poor people. You think the minimum wage guy with a 20 year old truck is just going to pop for a new electric car because gas prices rise? Pfft, think again.
I hope Tesla is successful, and that they become a major player in auto manufacturing, but wishing hardship on other consumers is lame and pretty pathetic in my opinion.

Agreed. I work in the energy industry so high oil prices do help me personally. However, when prices get too high it can hurt the economy and really put a burden on lower income families. Not only that but it drives up the cost on pretty much everything. You may not pay for gas at the pump but you pay for it elsewhere. You guys in California should be upset at your local governments that your gas prices are so high. Premium isn't even nearly that high here. Wow. Some people think we should tax gas even more to force people out of there cars. That's not how things should work.

#2685 80 days ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

Also there isn't a big inventory because many cars that got tax incentives can't sell it yet

That's not true. I got a tax incentive for our 3 this past year. I could have sold it immediately afterward and still got it.

There isn't a big inventory of used Teslas because they weren't manufacturing tons of cars even five years ago, and the Model 3 has lived up to the hype for most buyers, so they aren't selling. Lack of a real lease program also means the secondary market for cars coming off lease barely exists.

Additionally, the software updates make owners feel like they keep getting a new car, so the justification to sell and get the latest model isn't there as much.

#2686 80 days ago

I traded in a 700 hp Corvette Stingray for my performance model 3. Although there are some things I miss about that car, I’m so satisfied with the 3 that I'll never buy a gasoline engine car ever again. It’s just that good and this is only the beginning for electric cars.

#2687 79 days ago
Quoted from goatdan:

That's not true. I got a tax incentive for our 3 this past year. I could have sold it immediately afterward and still got it.

then this news story is lying
https://cleantechnica.com/2019/04/27/tesla-model-3-used-car-sales-in-usa-continue-to-taunt-bmw-audi-others

"used car statistics at that point might be skewed by the federal tax rebate on EVs. If people sold their Tesla Model 3 before the beginning of 2019, they wouldn’t get the rebate of $7,500. This was economically valuable to buyers in a direct way"

#2688 79 days ago
Quoted from SkillShot:

traded in a 700 hp Corvette Stingray for my performance model 3

Wow. You don’t hear of that kind of trade everyday...and to be satisfied with the model 3 to boot, that’s impressive.

#2689 79 days ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

then this news story is lying
https://cleantechnica.com/2019/04/27/tesla-model-3-used-car-sales-in-usa-continue-to-taunt-bmw-audi-others
"used car statistics at that point might be skewed by the federal tax rebate on EVs. If people sold their Tesla Model 3 before the beginning of 2019, they wouldn’t get the rebate of $7,500. This was economically valuable to buyers in a direct way"

No need to check internet sites, magazines or newspapers for accuracy.....

-1
#2690 79 days ago
Quoted from pinballrockstar:

Well 400.000 pre orders says a lot about the faith in Tesla(nobody has driven one/0 reviews to date)
Does it say something about the change of direction people want on this planet?

I think the Tesla is great, but if you are buying it to be green - I suggest you read this published paper (sorry it is German): http://www.cesifo-group.de/DocDL/sd-2019-08-sinn-karl-buchal-motoren-2019-04-25.pdf

But basically:

"Electric Vehicles are not a Panacea for Climate Change

Apr 17, 2019

Electric vehicles will barely help cut CO2 emissions in Germany over the coming years, as the introduction of electric vehicles does not necessarily lead to a reduction in CO2 emissions from road traffic. Natural gas combustion engines are the ideal technology for transitioning to vehicles powered by hydrogen or “green” methane in the long term.

Considering Germany’s current energy mix and the amount of energy used in battery production, the CO2 emissions of battery-electric vehicles are, in the best case, slightly higher than those of a diesel engine, and are otherwise much higher. This has been confirmed by a new study by Christoph Buchal, professor of physics at the University of Cologne; Hans-Dieter Karl, long-standing ifo energy expert; and Hans-Werner Sinn, former ifo president and professor emeritus at Ludwig-Maximilians-Universität München. The researchers carried out their detailed calculations using the concrete examples of a modern electric car and a modern diesel vehicle. In addition to CO2 emissions from battery production, they looked at alternative energy sources for electricity in order to calculate the impact electric vehicles have on CO2 emissions. They show that even with today’s technology, total emissions from a combustion engine powered by natural gas are already almost one-third lower than those of a diesel engine. “Over the long term, hydrogen-methane technology offers a further advantage: it allows surplus wind and solar power generated during peaks to be stored, and these surpluses will see a sharp increase as the share of this renewable energy grows,” Professor Buchal explains.

In their study, the authors criticize the fact that EU legislation allows electric vehicles to be included in calculations for fleet emissions with a value of “zero” CO2 emissions, as this suggests that electric vehicles do not generate any such emissions. The reality is that, in addition to the CO2 emissions generated in the production of electric vehicles, almost all EU countries generate significant CO2 emissions from charging the vehicles’ batteries using their national energy production mixes. The authors also take a critical view of the discussion about electric cars in Germany, which centers around battery-operated vehicles when other technologies also offer great potential: hydrogen-powered electric vehicles or vehicles with combustion engines powered by green methane, for instance. “Methane technology is ideal for the transition from natural gas vehicles with conventional engines to engines that will one day run on methane from CO2-free energy sources. This being the case, the German federal government should treat all technologies equally and promote hydrogen and methane solutions as well,” emphasizes Professor Sinn."

#2691 79 days ago

There are always two perspectives to any point. The one I've provided a link to (below) makes more sense and effectively proves points instead of throwing murky "facts" around as proof. But I'm not a scientist, and I don't have access to all of the actual facts. I do have a Tesla 3 and I do love it, but I'm not a "fanboy" I listen to both sides and make up my own mind. I'm not one to say "This is what I believe and everybody else is wrong".
Here is an opposing study:
(I tend to believe this one)
"Enough with the 'Actually, Electric Cars Pollute More' Bullshit Already"
https://jalopnik.com/enough-with-the-actually-electric-cars-pollute-more-bu-1834338565

#2692 79 days ago
Quoted from jonnyo:

Of course they've spent money on marketing. It's why they shut down their old referral program. It was costing them too much money. Something like 80 people earned Roadsters @ 250k each. If their profit margin on those is 100%, that's 10 million bucks just for that. And no one knows how many of the other prizes have been given out.
Free supercharging for life wasn't marketing?
Marketing is captured on the Income Statement under "Sales, General and Administrative". They spent 700 million on that in the first quarter of 2019. Not all of that is Marketing, but a chunk of it is.
Just because they don't run ads in traditional venues doesn't mean they don't spend on marketing.

I meant ads

#2693 79 days ago
Quoted from LongJohns:

I think the Tesla is great, but if you are buying it to be green - I suggest you read this published paper (sorry it is German): http://www.cesifo-group.de/DocDL/sd-2019-08-sinn-karl-buchal-motoren-2019-04-25.pdf
But basically:
"Electric Vehicles are not a Panacea for Climate Change
Apr 17, 2019
Electric vehicles will barely help cut CO2 emissions in Germany over the coming years, as the introduction of electric vehicles does not necessarily lead to a reduction in CO2 emissions from road traffic. Natural gas combustion engines are the ideal technology for transitioning to vehicles powered by hydrogen or “green” methane in the long term.
Considering Germany’s current energy mix and the amount of energy used in battery production, the CO2 emissions of battery-electric vehicles are, in the best case, slightly higher than those of a diesel engine, and are otherwise much higher. This has been confirmed by a new study by Christoph Buchal, professor of physics at the University of Cologne; Hans-Dieter Karl, long-standing ifo energy expert; and Hans-Werner Sinn, former ifo president and professor emeritus at Ludwig-Maximilians-Universität München. The researchers carried out their detailed calculations using the concrete examples of a modern electric car and a modern diesel vehicle. In addition to CO2 emissions from battery production, they looked at alternative energy sources for electricity in order to calculate the impact electric vehicles have on CO2 emissions. They show that even with today’s technology, total emissions from a combustion engine powered by natural gas are already almost one-third lower than those of a diesel engine. “Over the long term, hydrogen-methane technology offers a further advantage: it allows surplus wind and solar power generated during peaks to be stored, and these surpluses will see a sharp increase as the share of this renewable energy grows,” Professor Buchal explains.
In their study, the authors criticize the fact that EU legislation allows electric vehicles to be included in calculations for fleet emissions with a value of “zero” CO2 emissions, as this suggests that electric vehicles do not generate any such emissions. The reality is that, in addition to the CO2 emissions generated in the production of electric vehicles, almost all EU countries generate significant CO2 emissions from charging the vehicles’ batteries using their national energy production mixes. The authors also take a critical view of the discussion about electric cars in Germany, which centers around battery-operated vehicles when other technologies also offer great potential: hydrogen-powered electric vehicles or vehicles with combustion engines powered by green methane, for instance. “Methane technology is ideal for the transition from natural gas vehicles with conventional engines to engines that will one day run on methane from CO2-free energy sources. This being the case, the German federal government should treat all technologies equally and promote hydrogen and methane solutions as well,” emphasizes Professor Sinn."

Agreed, and I did read the original article (German native here), but that would be a snap shot of today's technology. You have to look into the future. This entire equation will change, once we can produce electricity soley out of clean energy (solar and water).
I know there is the hole story about a Hummet H2 having a smaller carbon footprint than a Prius, but you have to see the big picture.

#2694 79 days ago
Quoted from Procrastinator:

What a shortsighted, cringey outlook. I don’t have an opinion one way or another on Tesla, other than it sounds semi-appealing, but some of the lame commentary by fanboys repels more people than it attracts.
High gas prices cause a lot of things, and the largest group it effects is poor people. You think the minimum wage guy with a 20 year old truck is just going to pop for a new electric car because gas prices rise? Pfft, think again.
I hope Tesla is successful, and that they become a major player in auto manufacturing, but wishing hardship on other consumers is lame and pretty pathetic in my opinion.

I’m for a transition away from fossil fuels in general. Climate denier or tree hugger, there’s little to debate about the mess fossil fuels are making of the world via pollution or geopolitical turmoil, etc. I don’t wish anyone harm. It’s a transition we have to make eventually and there will be a pinch on the economy sometime. We are just procrastinating the eventual pain.

No offense to you or anyone who agrees with you, but we are in need of a paradigm shift. That poor person who drives his old truck to work should consider getting a scooter and not lugging a ton of sheet metal everywhere he goes. Now I know you’ll come back with the example of a guy that needs to move a bed full of whatever for his work. I’m not talking about that guy. Look at the freeways and see how many GIANT vehicles are being used to cart one tiny human from place to place. It’s absurd. We are probably using 5-10% of the fuel to move people or goods (just an estimate). The rest is used to move the vehicle. Change the vehicle to be something that is just enough to move a person. Just my perspective. I just think the market will need to push us in the right direction, and I think fossil fuels happen to be artificially cheap right now because so many long term costs (health, environment, war) aren’t factored directly into the price of gas.

Just my opinion. I hope it’s not cringy with further explanation. If it is still, I guess we will just disagree.

#2695 79 days ago

I’m on a bit of a roll now. Sorry.

You mentioned my viewpoint was shortsighted. If anything is shortsighted, it’s the minimum wage guy spending a ton of money on repairs and maintainence and gas for his twenty year old truck. I’ve long held the belief that our “car-centric” society keeps poor people poor. Just about the time we get our last payment made we sell or junk a car and get another money pit. Any income that could have been saved for the future, we consider it expendable and “upgrade” our next car purchase.

If the poor truck guy took the longer view, he’d abandon the 20 year old truck. Take the short term pain, buy a more reliable, practical means of getting to work, and save the excess for a rainy day. But, at least in America, we just continue to waste money on way more vehicle than we need.

Sorry. Rant over. I welcome all viewpoints on this.

#2696 79 days ago

That German study assumes a Prius will only go 109k miles through its use, while it has the H2 go 197k miles. My Prius alone has 140k on its odometer, this calculation seems deeply flawed. I’m not sure why they’d expect a Hummer to last so much longer than a Prius. Weird.

#2697 78 days ago

In case anyone still wants to argue against electric cars not being any less green than gas
https://jalopnik.com/enough-with-the-actually-electric-cars-pollute-more-bu-1834338565

#2698 78 days ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

In case anyone still wants to argue against electric cars not being any less green than gas
https://jalopnik.com/enough-with-the-actually-electric-cars-pollute-more-bu-1834338565

The article is more about the flaws in Germany's power generation than it is about the downsides of electric vehicles. They are trying to justify bad choices. To supplement the renewables, it sounds like Germany needs to get their power plants up to speed on natural gas (assuming they don't want to add any nuclear). They should have been phasing out coal a long time ago. The only unknown to me is the availability of natural gas in Germany. In the US natural gas has become very inexpensive and plentiful with no end in sight for availability.

#2699 78 days ago

Ive had my model 3 for about a month now. Still really like it.

Over my life (im pretty old) there have been a few things that stick in my mind. These are things that the first time I tried them....I knew things were going to change forever. These include the first time I sent an instant message (on a mainframe running IBM VM/SP via Bitnet from Michigan Tech to Arizona State), the first time I browsed the Internet using an HTML Browser, first time I saw my son interacting with a CGA monitor educational game with a sound card, first time I used a blackberry, the first time I listened to a CD. You get the idea. Now I can add the first time I drove my Telsa model 3.

It isn't perfect but it is really good. The ICE cars I have (still have my SUV and an old pickup and the Charger in the pic) and all those around me seem ancient to me suddenly. It is almost unfair to be driving this fast (I have the performance one) efficient car. A few people have tried to see if their cars are faster and they are not (so far). Now to be fair the 3 is REALLY fast from 0 to 90 but there are plenty of cars that are much faster 90mph and up. But I don't drive much above 80. Also the 3 is pretty heavy at 2 tons - so lighter performance cars (like corvette, 911) should tear it up on a race course.

I charge at home overnight when needed. I pay 12.4 cents per killowatt hour and can fully charge for about $9 - this is about 25% of what gas would cost to go 300 miles in my SUV. I also have some solar and am adding more. So far I have never used a supercharger but I will probably someday. For a long trip I would still take my gas powered car - maybe.

So today the M3 is really good but there are better performing cars out there.

What I don't think a lot of people understand though is the rate of change the electric cars are seeing. They are evolving at a much faster rate then we are used to. They are more a technology product than a car product as far as improvement goes. In 3 years I would suspect that the latest and greatest electric car (be it Tesla or whoever) will have a range of 600 miles, be lighter, have double the torque, "almost" drive itself, and DC- DC fast charge in 20 minutes or less. All of this is in the pipeline now. I don't think ICE cars can keep up. Putting the environmental arguments aside even, the E-cars will shortly be better. IMO the days of the ICE car over - it will just take people awhile to realize it.

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#2700 78 days ago
Quoted from michiganpinball:

What I don't think a lot of people understand though is the rate of change the electric cars are seeing. They are evolving at a much faster rate then we are used to. They are more a technology product than a car product as far as improvement goes. In 3 years I would suspect that the latest and greatest electric car (be it Tesla or whoever) will have a range of 600 miles, be lighter, have double the torque, "almost" drive itself, and DC- DC fast charge in 20 minutes or less. All of this is in the pipeline now. I don't think ICE cars can keep up. Putting the environmental arguments aside even, the E-cars will shortly be better.

It does seem to be that way, and I'm not sure how electric differs from gas? (or do they have the same and electric companies are just more aggressive). If you look up something like cruise control wiki, it was first introduced in 1900. Modern cruise control was introduced in 1948, the first patent was filed in 1955, the first low-priced version was added to AMC cars in 1965, the first electronic cruise control patented in 1968, and wasn't really rolled out to most cars until 2 decades later when motorola made it safe with a CMOS chip (plus gas prices were pushing for efficiency). I think maybe it's just a timing thing, we have really good technology today that let's us develop so much faster now. Or maybe it's a "clean sheet" thing where tesla isn't dragged down by all of it's legacy things, so they are 75% of the way with their first tesla model, and all these jumps are because they only have to fix that last 15%.

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