I think we'd all choose one over the other. But that's a silly premise. Are you living in a grass hut or a house? Do you raise all your own food, or do you eat out and shop at the grocery store? Do you watch TV, use a cell phone, post on this forum from a computer? Driving an EV doesn't make one better than anyone else. And we all make financial decisions and convenience decisions everyday that are detrimental to the environment.

reducing one's environmental impact is still a good thing regardless of whether or not a person can reduce it to zero.

Absolutely agree. Driving an EV is one of many ways. But until we all are at 0, noone can cast aspersions against another, for their choices. We grow our own garden, use rain barrels, etc. But I'm not on here preaching that because you don't, you're any less environmentally conscious. And by "you" I of course mean the collective, not you personally.

Without the tax credit, a Camry or Accord would have been cheaper.
Would I have spent the extra money and bought the Model 3 anyway? I'm really not sure.
I definitely like the acceleration, that I no longer have to ever stop for gas, integrated google maps etc... but is it worth 20% more than a comparable ICE car?
Maybe. Very hard to say what I would have done.

I also don't think of the Model 3 as a super premium car though. It's nice, but so is a higher end Camry or Accord.
The Model S or Model X are more luxury cars in my mind. So while you can get a loaded SUV for $45k, it wouldn't be a Porsche Cayenne or BMW X5 so I personally wouldn't compare a $45K SUV to the X... that's all personal perception though.

I do not see any logic to that assertion.

Thanks, that helps and as many have reminded me you charge at home every day rather than wait up. Most of the following has been covered - how kWh costs are derived - but to put it into practical terms ..

Jesus used a 115v wall socket in his garage to charge his 90kW Model 3 and he will need 10 hours @ 15.6 cents = $1.56. Or could use his Tesla home charging station. It too will fully charge the 90kW battery but it will only take 2 hours. So that would be 2 x 15.6 cents or 32 cents? Won’t your rate of charging be figured by power company so that it still ends up costing $1.56?

.

The key to charging is the 90kwh. If you require 90kwh to charge your vehicle, it cost the same regardless if you charge for 2 hours or 20 hours. Its like pumping gas into your car. You can pump 32 gallons into it in 3 minutes or in 10 minutes. 32 gallons still cost the same regardless of the flow. Same goes for electricity.

agreed.. Also nobody is going to reduce their carbon footprint to zero. But anyone that makes positive choices to use less waste (eat less meat, buy less packaged foods, drive a more efficient car even if they can't afford electric, hypermiling, carpooling, using LED lighting at home) should pat themselves on the back. A lot of Americans are very wasteful and simply don't care about the envoirment.

Ed Begley Jr is uber green and just built a custom house that is nearly zero carbon footprint (it's actually pretty amazing if you read up on it). Everything from solar, to insulation, to reclaiming rainwater and wastewater from sinks.

You don't see logic in not denouncing someone for not agreeing with your method of reducing your carbon footprint? Then I gave you too much credit.

It took me an hour to stick in a 80A 240V circuit into a Tesla home charger. Typically I charge at 15 KWh. With a 115V outlet they max out at <2KWh. It's cheap and easy to get a setup that gets you topped up after a daily commute in <3 hours. The car allows you to tell it when to charge. Most electricity providers have reduced rates after 11pm.

Anyway. - mine is a modelx p100d. Which I constantly floor in ludicrous mode. Nuking my charge and killing my range. It was worth every penny to get the gut wrenching 2.8s 0-60 in a large suv form factor.

3EF7418A-61B6-4273-A656-08B531215EEC (resized).jpeg

Is that a different red? Looks awesome.

I got a question for you Tesla owners.

What’s the cost of home charging during off peak hours vs gas in your previous car?

Just ballpark figures pls. I’m really thinking about getting a model 3 for our next car. My wife’s work pays for auto expenses by the kilometer. So far it covers gas prices and a bit of maintenance, but if we get a Tesla, then that expense Cheque will be used for the car payment.

We have family about 400km away, but we only make that trip once or twice a year. The rest is in town trips.

Very good info. These practical examples help a lot and congrats on the X.

On home charger - how much was it? Did electric company need to connect another feed? Maybe not since you mentioned charging at a 15kWh speed.

On mileage fluctuations - let’s say you leave home 100% charged. You drive all day WITHOUT flooring the car once, fast is ok but not aggressive. You get home and write down you drove y miles and had z% left on battery. Next day, leave home with 100% battery and drive about the same route all day but you drive like a dB azzhat from Hell. You get home and write down y miles and ?% of battery?

On pinball - can you fit a pinball in your suv? I believe someone answered no before and they’d rent a vehicle for pin moves. My Santa Fe requires the hinge bolts to be removed in order to slide the head down a bit and to fit - a pita.

we pay 8 cents per kwh so it's cheap either way, but to be honest we haven't really scrutinized our electric bill, or noticed a measurable uptick.

by the way, long trips in the Tesla are great. this summer i went to Pinburgh, which is about 250 miles (400 km) from me, and i didn't have to stop to charge at all. when i arrived at the hotel, they had a charger i could use, so it charged while i competed. after the tournament, i then drove all the way home again without stopping to charge. (there were a half dozen superchargers i could have stopped at if needed, though)

also this summer, my family (wife and two kids) drove from VA to Ottawa in the Tesla -- about 650 miles -- and that was also great. tons of superchargers the whole way. we just stopped to charge in 15 minute increments whenever people had to pee, or longer whenever we wanted to eat (superchargers are usually in restaurant or mall parking lots). no disgusting gas station restrooms necessary.

I had a standard 240v / 40 amp outlet installed in my garage, like for a dryer. The Tesla comes with a variety of adapters and this is one of them. I think installation was $500 including inspection but price and regulations probably vary by region. Sometimes Tesla runs promotions where they pay for home charger installation, i think.

you can also charge it off a standard 120v plug, but it charges very slowly ... it comes in handy if you take your car to a beach house or something, though.

i believe you'll find driving like a maniac reduces your range regardless of whether that car is powered by gas or electricity. i certainly find it to be true.

Don't know about the X, but this is my Model S:

(apologies for reposting)
TeslaAquarius2 (resized).png
TeslaAquarius3 (resized).png

that's a wedgehead. There was plenty of room to spare (didn't have to move the front seats up at all either), but i'm not sure i'd be able to close the trunk if i put a modern fold-down game in there. haven't tried, though.

Driving an electric car like a maniac does decrease efficiency, but not as much as you might think. In an ICE car, you're using tons of gas accelerating then wasting that kinetic energy braking, then repeating... in an electric car, you waste energy accelerating, but then recoup a portion of it through the regenerative brakes. You'll still see a decrease in range, but not nearly as much as in an ICE vehicle (also you won't need to change the brakes and rotors more frequently like you would in an ICE car)

My house has typical 200A service. So no additional feed. If I wanted to install a 90A circuit and charge at say 20KWh at home I would prob have to get a 400A feed. But even for 2 electric cars this is likely overkill. But it would be pretty sweet.

The car has a really nice display showing average energy used and projected range. If you are driving the car fast and hard, just like an ICE car, you loose maybe 15% or more range being a maniac. Except, as mentioned, the car regains some energy from breaking. Which actually helps a lot.

However if you drive normally, around the speed limits, with stock wheels you get close to 300mi on one full charge. Although for daily commutes, I charge only to 80% at night, and won't let the car go below 20% before charging again.

Most Tesla owners just plug in when they park at home. So pretty much every day I wake up to a car sitting at 80% charge. From my phone I can tell the car to charge to 100% if I'm going on a long trip.

All in all, it's a great experience. I get a better car, with acceleration that beats most exotic sport cars. And wake up everyday with a full tank. Also, Tesla just updated the fleet with new s/w that's a big bump in features and functionality. This is super refreshing compared to how other mfg's s/w is what it is when you purchase it.

If your a Model 3 owner this gives you peace of mind

This is just insane. How can a startup car company around for a few years create a car that is the safest car ever tested - competing with all these other car companies with decades of experiences and billions and billions of dollars into safety R&D trying to get the best safety scores they can? Remember when Volvo use to rely on the fact that they were the safest cars on the road to sell their vehicles? Yet it seems all you hear about are the one or two Tesla crashes and heaven forbid a battery catches on fire or explodes in a major collision - yet hundreds of gas vehicles each day get into accidents and burn to a crisp. Who cares if you hate Elon Musk, think he's a snake-oil salesman, hate Tesla in general, or think they are going to go bankrupt - they just created the safest mass market car on the road, when every single other car company has been trying to do the same thing with all their $$$ and experience. It's nuts. They've got some impressive engineers that do not get enough credit for what they have and are doing.

I agree. People will say we are fan-boys, but the data is definitely on our side. Anyone who disagrees with you on this is just a hater, which is really just the negative version of a fan-boy.

I don't like Honda's. Decent price, good tech, but I have never liked how they drive.

I couldn't imagine spending hours upon hours on message boards trying to convince people how bad Honda's are. What a low place in my life I'd have to be in to be doing that.

Anyone happen to have a REF Code for a Model S P100D ??

Looking for the 21 " Inch ARACHNID Wheels offer info

Please send PM

Many thanks,

Rob

PM sent.

Not sure what you are looking for anyone that owns a Tesla will have a referral code. They get the rims you just get some free super charging.

Saw this at the Cosmopolitan Resort in Las Vegas yesterday and thought of a particular Tesla owner....

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yeah, i do own a few myself.

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Oh my gosh, I think you may have a problem. . What’s the most you’ve paid and be honest, and I’m guessing $300. What are most valuable ones you have and their price? Pics of the winners pretty please.

More importantly, what’s the story with the Ghost Santa Pez dispenser? Spooky!

I got version 9 last night. My task for this morning was to drive down to Game Exchange and check out Iron Maiden. Sometimes the stars align.

I got 9 yesterday as well, so much new stuff. Sadly my wife took my car to work this morning. Getting code updates on your car is so awesome.

Just ordered a Model S

P100D

Loaded

21 Inch Rims....

Red

Carbon Fiber

Should have her in about 4 weeks

Juiced!!

Rob

Nice. Just got back home from the G2E show. One of my friends who used to live in Green Valley and moved to Reno has the same vehicle. He loves it. He has always owned Porsche, Audi or Mercedes vehicles. It's his first American car. The superchargers along I-80 work perfect for his trips to San Francisco.

He's toured the Gigafactory in Reno and was quite impressed.

https://www.barrons.com/articles/elon-musks-tesla-has-the-right-stuff-to-win-long-term-analyst-says-1539096706

Here is a very good article. One of the best I've seen so far.
https://cleantechnica.com/2018/10/14/8-impossible-goals-tesla-achieved/

Well you never have to worry about the Model 3 Drive units wearing out anytime soon!

https://electrek.co/2018/10/15/tesla-drive-after-million-miles-test/

It was the first site I put in my favorites. That being said favorites didn't actually save for me till I rebooted.

I watched that a couple hours ago, and I though it was interesting. Frankly, the worst report was the structure uses too many pieces. I also bet the company that broke down the car is looking for business to show Tesla how to design their cars to be able to be manufactured cheaper. I bet Tesla said bug off, so hence the story. It's interesting though to hear about the motor. It bugs me they show the Model S front end, but the story was about the 3.

not only that, but a front end Tesla hasn't used in over 2 years.

not a knock on toyotaboy, but i really don't know why anyone puts any stock whatsoever into these absurd third-party teardowns with analysis from people with zero insight into why specific engineering decisions were made, and how they impact Tesla's bottom line or the vehicle's operation. i really can't stress enough how worthless this exercise is.

Hey pezpunk, congrats on the version 9 update. My BIL with the S was in town this weekend and was telling how all the cameras his car came with work now. It's pretty cool Tesla thought ahead to put those in even though they didn't have code for them yet. Most cars you would have to buy the next model to get the update.

There's negatives, but there's also many positives if you watch the whole thing. That tesla has designed the cheapest and lightest electric motor, that they've also designed the most powerful one by stacking neodynium magnets, that their battery pack has phenomenal engineering that will likely last a long time.

Having more parts than necessary, or more screw sizes/lengths is never a good thing. They aren't knocking the design necessarily, just commenting it could be done better. Of course Tesla has only had 10 years to learn how to manufacture, so they certainly aren't doing bad.

Tesla is starting to be very disruptive!

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/10/21/18-nasty-tesla-charts/

Let me preface this by saying that I'm a stockholder and a model 3 owner and I love Tesla.
These stats are fantastic, however, I think that most of these sales are from the preorders. I think that we are about to see a decline in sales as the preorder sales finish up and Tesla starts to rely once again on the general public ordering new cars.
I hope that I'm wrong though.

LOL. Criticism from a company that is getting their A** KICKED in electric by a startup. HAHAHA. Easy to criticize. With nothing that competes YEARS LATER.

Whatever....

I have to think there are still a lot of buyers for the base car at $35000 if they ever make them. It just seems like Tesla does not want to have to make them at that price because profits are likely far less per unit and cash is still needed to overcome start-up costs.

So they design a frame with better crash performance vs most others, and it gets criticized for too many parts.

I’m sure they are going through many revisions invisible to consumers. No doubt they have a cost reduction plan running. Which is why the consumer price isn’t where they want it yet.

On my 3 they eliminated several redundant fasteners in the wheel wells. I think that the optimization process is ongoing and that they are becoming more efficient and lean as each week passes.
Unfortunately, when they eliminated these fasteners many buyers could see that fasteners were "missing" from existing holes in the wheel wells and started complaining. Hopefully the other improvements will be less obvious in the future.

More Tesla awesomeness here:
https://cleantechnica.com/2018/10/22/tesla-service-delivers-the-repair-experience-of-the-future/