How is Tesla making such a better battery? And when did they get this good, when they opened the gigafactory to build their own? The original Nissan leaf will only go about 40k miles before the battery starts not fully charging, but perhaps this is because it has a shorter range (like 1/3 the capacity) so it's going to cycle more. Still seems high, but impressive if true. Interesting how in the 80s the norm for a car was about 100k miles for it's average lifespan before it was ready to trade in. Now today the average ICE car can easily hit 200k miles before developing major issues. If a Tesla battery (and hopefully the motor) can reach 500k miles, that's amazing achievement. Maybe the higher price is justified if you can get more than twice the life out of it.

Elon sends a check to the SEC

ht: reddit

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Tesla as a company had to also cut a 20 million dollar check. 40 million had to be shelled out for that blunder.

Well for some mathematical perspective, if we are talking $100 the fine would be a Dime for Elon and less than a Nikola for Tesla. It was a wopping 0.001 of Elons net work and 0.0004 for Tesla.

in case you were wondering, yes, the Model S fits a pin!

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In other news, I saw a Model 3 on I-96 near downtown Detroit this past Friday evening. It's been a few weeks since I saw any Tesla on the road here and between Detroit & Chicago.

Awesome....PS, you need to wax that bumper

It's very hard to say but it may have something to do with the cell size. I think the Tesla has 2170 cells vs 192 for the Leaf. They also have a different chemistry, and certainly different charging/discharging circuitry and software.

Maybe Elon stepping down for a while might help in the short term.
Just saying . . .

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I just watched a video on the chive, where a guy in a model 3 was pulled over because the cop had never heard of a Tesla before and the cop thought that the dash screen was added to the car, not a stock factory installed screen.

Once the cop realized that the screen was part of the car he apologized and carried on his way.

He stepped down from Chairman he is still CEO.
Just wait until the 3rd Quarter results are released. Stock could quite possibly hit $400.00

You mean this one. LMAO

how does someone who's job it is to interact with traffic has no idea of a 10 year old car company exists? this has to be in some southern ho-dunk town.

That’s it.

Actually I believe it's the opposite - stock price going up had nothing to do with "Elon stepping down". It had to do with both (1) resolving the issue 100% and (2) Elon NOT having to leave the company - he is still CEO and just stepping down as chairman.

Even Tesla haters would most likely agree that if Elon was ousted completely from Tesla, it definitely wouldn't cause the stock to go up - it would plummet.

This cracked me up, Elon drops this on twitter and apparently spends $20,000,000 on new Tesla stock to cover the fine. Nothing like being able to drop an extra $20 million just to troll.

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1046676717350268928

Can you embed tweets on Pinside?

prescient

I briefly looked into buying some calls, but they were a bit pricey. Rats.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/03/elon-musks-ultimatum-to-tesla-fight-the-sec-or-i-quit.html

'Cause people like ultimatums.

Interesting comparison....My DD is the Alfa Quadrifoglio and this was posted on our forum:

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/alfa-romeo/giulia/2019/tesla-model-3-vs-jaguar-i-pace-vs-alfa-romeo-giulia/

Bottom line, the Model 3 performance did admirably, but still not to level of the Alfa for sheer performance on twisties. But for DD commuting and getting the groceries, the Model 3 performance from a tech standpoint would probably be the winner.

The Quadrifoglio is without a doubt an amazing car, and a welcome re-introduction to the US for Alfa. Really sweet!

It is an amazing DRIVING car, probably the best I've ever been in, and I've been performance driving for the past 15 years. The steering is razor sharp, has a perfect 50/50 weight balance, has aerodynamic assist out the wazoo, is light and with 505 HP is blazing fast. But, unfortunately, Alfa fell short of some of the tech and amenities that much of the US population now expects for a Daily Driver. And of course Alfa still suffers from historical perception of reliability. Although at 9K I've not had any issues. It will probably be my last ICE purchase for a Daily. I expect within 4 years or so, the EV market will have many more options, and the price points will have relaxed.

It is amazing how Tesla is disrupting the car market in a relatively short period of time. They just took out the Toyota Corolla Family of cars for September Sales in the US. The truly amazing feat is the Toyota Corolla sells at around $22500 US while the Model 3 is selling at an average around $60,000.
Maybe 4th quarter sales will take out Honda Civic and Accord. Well done Tesla !

I don't think Model 3 buyers at $60K are taking away Corolla sales. You're mixing up two different phenomenon. Corolla sales at $22.5K would be competing against a much larger pool of alternatives from various manufacturers. Kia, Hyundai, Fiat and the like are making roads and cutting into those sales, not Tesla. The better comparison is Tesla against BMW's, Mercedes, Audi's, etc. that are at that $50 to $70k sales point. Tesla is probably hurting them more than they would be hurting Toyota.

You also have to consider the Model 3 is new, and the pool of $60k EV buyers hasn't been exhausted from numerous years of sales. Once the initial pool of buyers begins to taper (and it will, as the size of the pool for $60K car buyers is already smaller) as they get their cars, expect Model 3 sales to flat line or even decrease. Doesn't mean that it's any less popular, it just means that the demand is less. Then it will all the more imperative that they get the $35K model out into the market. Then, you can make the argument that it becomes disruptive to the Corolla/Camry crowd.

I disagree. The top 5 cars being traded in for model 3 cost far less. Tesla Model 3 is disrupting the entire Sedan Market.

https://electrek.co/2018/08/01/tesla-model-3-top-5-trade-in-cars/

Soon as the base model is introduced Model 3 will reach #1 in the US

It is funny but SUV sales and Tesla sales continue to grow while regular cars continue to drop in sales:

https://www.planetizen.com/news/2018/08/100267-suvs-sales-increase-california-while-car-sales-drop-except-those-plugs

https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-model-3-long-range-premium-review-pictures-2018-10

Model 3 is aspirational for many folks so they might leap for one vs sticking with a much less expensive Toyota or Honda.

SUV sales are going crazy across the country. We've been shopping for one for the wife, and while out yesterday, I took more notice of what's driving around town. 7 out of 10 vehicles were an SUV or crossover. The next 2 were trucks, and 1 standard car. The wife and I both like to drive something uncommon, so we've narrowed it down to the new Jaguar F Pace or an Alfa Stelvio. I couldn't talk her into the Model X

I have no doubt that a $35k Tesla is going to be a popular seller. If they could make a $45K SUV, watch out.

From that same article:

"They count the BMW 3-series, Audi A4, Mercedes C-class, Lexus IS and Jaguar XE in the segment, which was significantly down last month – potentially indicating that Model 3 is having an impact."

That's what I'm saying. I don't think trade-ins are indicative of much, because most Accord/Civic drivers bought them 5+ years ago when that's all they could afford. Now that they've progressed in life, they're moving up to the next level of car. There is no way that someone who has budgeted themselves for a 20K Honda, suddenly says I'll buy a 60K Tesla instead. We've been the same way. We started with a $15K civic. Then bought a $35K Genesis. Now we're shopping for a $50K SUV. It's just the natural progression of those that have succeeded and can afford a little more.

So I drove the model 3 yesterday. The car is impressive at this price point but it is just not something I am overwhelmed about vs the MB that I drive. The finish is not there imo but the car itself as a daily driver would be awesome.

I also looked at a used model with 7 seats. Again very futuristic and cool factor is higher than I've ever seen. If I was younger, didn't have kids etc this would definitely be something I would drive. Needing the space for kids, their stuff etc it just wouldn't work for me. I do love all the advancement in tech and I think this is all trending in the right direction. Until they make a larger model than the 7 passenger suv, I'll be out.

I am not sure what it would cost but if they could make a vehicle the size of my RR or GL I'd certainly be a buyer.

Just my 2 cents. Perfect car for someone without kids imo.

i think looking at the percent change for the Camry, Accord, Civic, and Corolla offers a compelling argument that the Model 3 *IS* stealing sales from those far cheaper vehicles.

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And I agree with what you are saying. These model 3's are similar in finish and quality to Toyota's, Honda's etc. I could see how this could compete with those companies. Yes the display is amazing and obviously the features of the car are greater at a higher cost but if those were my target markets and I could afford the jump, I'd have a model 3.

Is self driving mode operational yet? What will be first US state to allow it on their roads?

Nope....look at that same website. Alfa Romeo is up 186%. Mitsubish up 23%. Mazda up 11%. Volvo up 27%. So do I argue that each of those brands are taking away sales of Honda and Toyota? You can't look at it in a vacuum. First off there is no YTD sales increase on Model 3's because they didn't make any last year. And Tesla's share of sales at .82% compared to Honda/Toyota combined at 35%. I definitely think Tesla Model 3's are taking sales away from the competitors I listed above. But to suggest that Honda Civic sales are down due to Tesla is crazy talk.

it's been operational for years, depending on what level you mean. it has always been capable of maintaining its current lane, going around turns, slowing down and speeding up depending on traffic, and changing lanes on its own with the driver simply putting on the turn signal. They've just released a new over the air update that enables automatic lane changes based on speed and traffic (with several settings from "mild" to "mad max", not joking, that's seriously what the setting is called) and automatically taking of exit ramps based on navigation destination. As far as I know, all this is already legal in all 50 states.

fully autonomous driving -- where the driver can legally literally take a nap if they want -- is still a ways away, but the cool thing is the current cars all have the hardware for it, and it's just a matter of sending out software updates over wifi to enable it. also, Tesla has said that if hardware updates do end up being necessary to achieve Level 5 Autonomy, current buyers will receive that hardware upgrade at no charge.

it's not crazy at all -- it's definitely, almost indisputably happening. The Model 3 is causing a lot of people who don't normally splurge on their car purchase to do just that. Look at the Corolla for example -- its sales are down 36% THIS MONTH, exactly at the point where Model 3 sales exploded. It's silly to pretend those two factors aren't related. Sales for the Camry are down 6% for the year, but 20% for this month alone, again right when Model 3 production blew up. I don't see how you can reasonably deny its impact.

You're making a leap of deduction that isn't there. They are not pulling from the same pool of buyers. Noone is splurging 3x the cost of a car. You can't honestly believe that. Last month's sales are down foe numerous reasons. Dealerships along the southeast took a huge hit due to hurricane florence. They've all been opening on Sundays trying to make up for lost sales. But to suggest a premium brand sales are up because a budget brand is down is folly.

I'm interested to see the numbers. For a 25k accord vs a 55k model 3, where are you making up the 30k difference?

Are you taking electricity cost into account with your fuel savings? It didn't look like it with the math, but not sure. 15k miles/yr in a model 3 would cost approx $600/yr in electricity costs.

So how much would you expect charging cost to be for one week and how long will it take them? I am trying to get some practical numbers.

Let's say Jesus (pronounced hey-Zoos) drives his AWD Model 3 for 15k miles per year = 300 mi/wk. Assume he gets over 300 mi per charge, so the Tesla will need one super charge per week. Also presuming he doesn't qualify for free charging and will need to pay for each visit. Time is money, so he is not going to use the slow chargers for cheaper. What is Our Saviour's anticipated weekly cost? and how long will he have to wait?

Dirty Dan drives 300 mi/wk and he gets 300 mi per fillup of his gas engine. His car spews a cloud of black smoke and the fuel tank holds 16 gallons. With an average gas price of $2.75 (*assumed*) = $44 / wk for Dirty Dan. With a trip inside the store to buy some roller dogs and a monster gulp, he spends 15 minutes.

charge at home. zero time per year spent supercharging. 8 cents per kilowatt hour where i live. seriously amazing never ever waking up and being like "oh darn i need to hit the Exxon on my way to work".

There are so many ways to optimize cost with Tesla. I charge at work for free so I pay basically nothing. Supercharging is time based near me and if you quit around 85-90% like you should its pretty cheap. That last 10-15% is super cost prohibitive. There are free chargers all over the place. It's really just a matter of how much effort you want to put into minimizing the cost. I quickly realized it was a complete waste of time you pay so little compared to fossil I can't be bothered. If its your thing and you enjoy that stuff you can really maximize range and reduce cost. My electricity is 100% emissions free so I smirk every time someone tells me EVs are the same as Fossil cars.

Still so many misconceptions on just how cheap all EVs are to operate and the process to refill them. I’ve been driving a Kia Soul EV for a year now. I leave the house every day with 140 miles of range. I pay 10 cents per kilowatt for electricity. So between winter and summer my cost goes from 3 cents per mile to 2 cents per mile. So let’s say 2.5 cents per mile average. Also in the summer I pay for unlimited DC fast charging for $20 a month so I can take trips out of town 150-200 miles away max. No other maintenance fees so far. I paid about 17k for the car new off the lot after incentives. So cheap to drive! Wish I could go back and give it to my 18 year old self.

Okay, thank you, and seems more plausible, given your situation of free charging. When you put it to paper, the tax credit really makes a huge difference. I know it's hard to shake the bias now that you're enjoying the Model 3, but if the tax credit weren't available (which will be halved at year end), would you have still thought it comparable? I've tried running the numbers, same as you, in trying to talk the wife into a Model X. But it just doesn't work here on the east coast, where gas is $2.25/gal. I can buy a nice fully loaded SUV for $45K, vs $80K Tesla. Even with the 7.5K credit, I can't justify it on price alone.

Putting cost aside, would you rather be compared to Jesus or Dirty Dan??